Former Saints Watch

[skeptic]

Jack Bytel tore it up against a hapless Richmond outfit this afternoon…
25 touches, 15 of them kicks, 2 tackles. Hope to see him build on that effort.

Billings subbed out with injury vs GWS? 12 touches to 3/4 and still looking like giving him up for virtually nothing and paying him is the deal of the off-season (only kidding BM)

Gresh got 12 touches against us and didn’t trouble the scorers… again not matching that pay is looking like a very shrewd bit of list management

Jamie Cripps still going strong all these years later… 12 touches for 1.3 vs Freo in a generally spirited effort from WCE. Not the best night but decent.

Ben Long - 11 touches, 1.2 - doing his job but not much more. Basically kicking a goal or more every week so that’s something.



Coffield playing for the dogs their blistering start v Sydney. Seems to be doing ok.

Acres missed with injury - stock has dropped a little which makes me think he’s been hampered by that foot.

No Hind this week.

Rhys Stanley out to pasture at Geelong. Depth at this point if not retired.

Darragh Joyce has played some games for Brisbane… think he played last week but was dropped? Seems little more than fringe depth

Add in if I’ve missed anyone

[Sainter_Dad]

Leigh Montagna to be a Magpie for a day with Castlemaine on 10th August

[D.B.Cooper]

Gresham has had a pretty solid season, he has been a decent pick up for Essendon.

Very difficult for any small forward to flourish in Essendons team yesterday.

Whether the decision is successful will depend upon how Collard turns out as a player or compensation received for Collard if he heads back to WA in the future, as the compensation was average, and I was not aware we needed a salary dump.

[King Max]

Darragh Joyce has played some games for Brisbane… think he played last week but was dropped? Seems little more than fringe depth

Add in if I’ve missed anyone

Broken jaw.

[skeptic]

Gresham has had a pretty solid season, he has been a decent pick up for Essendon.

Very difficult for any small forward to flourish in Essendons team yesterday.

Whether the decision is successful will depend upon how Collard turns out as a player or compensation received for Collard if he heads back to WA in the future, as the compensation was average, and I was not aware we needed a salary dump.

My understanding is that the offer on the table from us was $600k and that Essendon went quite a bit higher to lure him. Rumour has $750k.

I agree with you he’s been decent but IMO, nowhere near that kind of value

[saynta]

Gresham has had a pretty solid season, he has been a decent pick up for Essendon.

Very difficult for any small forward to flourish in Essendons team yesterday.

Whether the decision is successful will depend upon how Collard turns out as a player or compensation received for Collard if he heads back to WA in the future, as the compensation was average, and I was not aware we needed a salary dump.

My understanding is that the offer on the table from us was $600k and that Essendon went quite a bit higher to lure him. Rumour has $750k.

I agree with you he’s been decent but IMO, nowhere near that kind of value

Decent? I thought he would be considered disappointing . Always knew that Bytel would succeed given a proper chance, which was never given to him at Moorabbin.

[D.B.Cooper]

Gresham has had a pretty solid season, he has been a decent pick up for Essendon.

Very difficult for any small forward to flourish in Essendons team yesterday.

Whether the decision is successful will depend upon how Collard turns out as a player or compensation received for Collard if he heads back to WA in the future, as the compensation was average, and I was not aware we needed a salary dump.

My understanding is that the offer on the table from us was $600k and that Essendon went quite a bit higher to lure him. Rumour has $750k.

I agree with you he’s been decent but IMO, nowhere near that kind of value

Decent? I thought he would be considered disappointing . Always knew that Bytel would succeed given a proper chance, which was never given to him at Moorabbin.

He’s 24-25 and managed 3 games for Collingwood and 20 odd all up, has hardly made it yet.

I like Bytel and I hope he goes on to play 200 games, but you are prematurely evaluating his performance based on one decent match.

[saynta]

Gresham has had a pretty solid season, he has been a decent pick up for Essendon.

Very difficult for any small forward to flourish in Essendons team yesterday.

Whether the decision is successful will depend upon how Collard turns out as a player or compensation received for Collard if he heads back to WA in the future, as the compensation was average, and I was not aware we needed a salary dump.

My understanding is that the offer on the table from us was $600k and that Essendon went quite a bit higher to lure him. Rumour has $750k.

I agree with you he’s been decent but IMO, nowhere near that kind of value

Decent? I thought he would be considered disappointing . Always knew that Bytel would succeed given a proper chance, which was never given to him at Moorabbin.

He’s 24-25 and managed 3 games for Collingwood and 20 odd all up, has hardly made it yet.

I like Bytel and I hope he goes on to play 200 games, but you are prematurely evaluating his performance based on one decent match.

No, wrong...again. I am basing my evaluation on 70 years of watching Aussie rules footballers develop from under age to become better than average VFL and AFL footballers. Nothing premature about my view on Jack at all.

But your post highlights your ignorance and lack of football nous.

[skeptic]

Gresham has had a pretty solid season, he has been a decent pick up for Essendon.

Very difficult for any small forward to flourish in Essendons team yesterday.

Whether the decision is successful will depend upon how Collard turns out as a player or compensation received for Collard if he heads back to WA in the future, as the compensation was average, and I was not aware we needed a salary dump.

My understanding is that the offer on the table from us was $600k and that Essendon went quite a bit higher to lure him. Rumour has $750k.

I agree with you he’s been decent but IMO, nowhere near that kind of value

Decent? I thought he would be considered disappointing . Always knew that Bytel would succeed given a proper chance, which was never given to him at Moorabbin.

When I say decent… I meant he’s more or less maintained the standard he played to with us but looking at the AFL app… he’s down a bit in numbers. By the end I didn’t think he was worth what we paid him so I suspect yes… Essendon fans would be disappointed.

Comparatively speaking… I imagine GC has knocked it out of the park in terms of value with Ben Long

[Yorkeys]

Gresham's push in the back of Nasiah I thought a touch ungentlemanly and had potential to cause injury. No more Mr Nice guy I guess. Was he ever nice?

[SaintPav]

Gresham is not the player we expected him to be let alone the player he once was.

Letting him go doesn’t seem like a bad decision now.

[D.B.Cooper]

Gresham has had a pretty solid season, he has been a decent pick up for Essendon.

Very difficult for any small forward to flourish in Essendons team yesterday.

Whether the decision is successful will depend upon how Collard turns out as a player or compensation received for Collard if he heads back to WA in the future, as the compensation was average, and I was not aware we needed a salary dump.

My understanding is that the offer on the table from us was $600k and that Essendon went quite a bit higher to lure him. Rumour has $750k.

I agree with you he’s been decent but IMO, nowhere near that kind of value

Decent? I thought he would be considered disappointing . Always knew that Bytel would succeed given a proper chance, which was never given to him at Moorabbin.

He’s 24-25 and managed 3 games for Collingwood and 20 odd all up, has hardly made it yet.

I like Bytel and I hope he goes on to play 200 games, but you are prematurely evaluating his performance based on one decent match.

No, wrong...again. I am basing my evaluation on 70 years of watching Aussie rules footballers develop from under age to become better than average VFL and AFL footballers. Nothing premature about my view on Jack at all.

But your post highlights your ignorance and lack of football nous.

Don’t claim to have any football nous.
But I do know a premature evaluator when I read their comments.

If Bytel makes it as a quality AFL player, I’ll be very pleased as he is a hard working guy who fully deserves it.

But anyone who thinks he’s made it now is kidding themselves, he’s 24/25 with 20 odd games under his belt and is currently a rookie on a one year (?) deal.

Premature evaluate on one good game all you want saynta, the only thing we agree on here is I think we’d both like to see the young fella succeed in his footy career.

[Vortex]

Premature evaluater

Love that, I'm using it if you don't mind

Raymondo the 70 year old Premature Evaluater

[skeptic]

So let’s have a look…

Coffield - 8 touches vs Dees, nowhere near it. Obviously coming from a long way back in terms of match fitness
Billing’s in the ressies.

Ben Long - 11 touches and 3goals. Killing it for Goldcoast
In the same game, Jamie Cripps… all over it. 23 touches, 1 goal in a big win for the WCE

Rhys Stanley suited up for Geelong, 13 touches, 23 H/Os… pbly did his job as a role player but little more

Blake Acres had 18 touches and a goal… consensus that it was a down performance in a big game and close loss

Bytel in the same game had 15 touches, they would have pbly hoped for more

[skeptic]

Let’s do a little bump…

Ben Long’s form has wavered markedly as GC have slumped the last few weeks. No goals, still getting about 10 touches a game but no impact

Jack Billings has made his classic late season pitch to save his career… 23 and 21 disposals in his last 2 games. Watch with interest as the their last game vs Coll is effectively a dead rubber

Jack Bytel backed up his solid 18 disposal and 1g game vs Sydney, with 10 touches and being subbed out vs Brisbane. Hard to get a beat on him. My feeling is that he’s ultimately not much more than competitive at best at the highest level. Might be a decent 22nd player in a challenging team.

Blake Acres - 28 touches and 1goal in a bad loss vs Hawthorn last week… 19 touches and in a stroll vs WCE. Obviously firmly top 22 at Carlton but I’m getting a plateau vibe overall for the second half of the year

Jamie Cripps - 1.1 and 9 touches in a tough day for FPs today to go with his 8 touches and 3g last week. Still a contributor even on the decline

Rhy Stanley - took an ass’ey mark and goal vs us amongst his 13 touches but overall ineffectual and melted under the pressure with his teammates. Marshall gave him a bath. Only 7 touches last week… can’t say his departure particularly hurt us.

Gresham has had 5 & 11 disposals in the last 2 weeks and is emblematic of Essendon’s capitulation

Coffield dropped after 12 touches last week. Needs a big off-season and decent run at it otherwise is at risk of it all being over
Joyce injured
Hind has been out for a while


All in all… Acres for steak knives is a huge blunder… a moronic one that on current form pbly cost us finals this year
Long is a value pick but a loss we can absorb though he has been better than Butler this year

Otherwise our appraisal for our players is looking pretty good to me

[B.M]

Depends which way you’re arguing and what your bias is

Trying to find justification is easy if you try hard enough

Faint praise for good performance and condemnation for poor performance

Rate the following in recent times - our trade ins
Howard?
Hill?
Butler?
Henry?
Crouch?…. He was a FA


Then of course there was Hannebery

[StPeter]

Excellent summary of the situation.
At the time we traded Acres, as you say the stake knives, along with 2 first round draft picks, I said it is the worst decision of many shockers by the Saints over many years. He always looked to me that he would develop into something special.

[SaintPav]

Bulter has taken a while to get going this season because of his late start. I think he’s important to the team.

[skeptic]

Depends which way you’re arguing and what your bias is

Trying to find justification is easy if you try hard enough

Faint praise for good performance and condemnation for poor performance

Rate the following in recent times - our trade ins
Howard?
Hill?
Butler?
Henry?
Crouch?…. He was a FA


Then of course there was Hannebery

I get what you’re saying but naturally one is more likely to have better knowledge of players playing for you… which is kind of the point I’m making here. We’ve read our own pretty well.

Players traded in… then draftees is a whole other nuance to the conversation.

I’ll briefly play along though:

Hannebery was an unmitigated disaster. Nobody in the AFL world thought otherwise beyond our list managers apparently though I’ve always thought there was something more to the deal.

Henry too early to tell. Looks decent.

Butler… I don’t recall what we gave up for him but don’t think it was much. Has been good value but has struggled this year

Crouch has been excellent value to late last year and now.

Hill was super expensive… started slow, rough first year but has mostly been reasonable to good since. I don’t think we’ve won on that deal… especially considering we could have gotten Serong and kept Acres with those picks but he does appear to have given us reasonable value on and off the field.

Howard is still on the list and has been a key part of the structure. Started well but really stagnated for a bit - went into this weird spot where as a perceived leader, confused himself to be an elite playmaker and lost a lot of good faith with dozens of unforced, costly basic skill errors. Seems to have stopped doing that stuff know as others have come in around him. Was expensive but we may still win this one.

Off the list…
Higgins and Ryder were great value
Membrey too
Wood has been exceptional

Jones and Stocker have been good overall
Dow too early to tell. Needs to get more ball but can be damaging
Cordy and Campbell mildly better than expected
Bonner started ok and may stay on the list for depth but disposal is a problem.

I recall a few cheap one or 2 year selections too… most more or less landed where we expected

[King Max]

Let’s do a little bump…
Joyce injured

Joyce has played the last 2 games.

[skeptic]

Let’s do a little bump…
Joyce injured

Joyce has played the last 2 games.

Well I’ll be damned.

10 and 14 touches, no idea how he’s done in some close games.

May be in line to play finals

[Mr Magic]

Depends which way you’re arguing and what your bias is

Trying to find justification is easy if you try hard enough

Faint praise for good performance and condemnation for poor performance

Rate the following in recent times - our trade ins
Howard?
Hill?
Butler?
Henry?
Crouch?…. He was a FA


Then of course there was Hannebery

I get what you’re saying but naturally one is more likely to have better knowledge of players playing for you… which is kind of the point I’m making here. We’ve read our own pretty well.

Players traded in… then draftees is a whole other nuance to the conversation.

I’ll briefly play along though:

Hannebery was an unmitigated disaster. Nobody in the AFL world thought otherwise beyond our list managers apparently though I’ve always thought there was something more to the deal.

Henry too early to tell. Looks decent.

Butler… I don’t recall what we gave up for him but don’t think it was much. Has been good value but has struggled this year

Crouch has been excellent value to late last year and now.

Hill was super expensive… started slow, rough first year but has mostly been reasonable to good since. I don’t think we’ve won on that deal… especially considering we could have gotten Serong and kept Acres with those picks but he does appear to have given us reasonable value on and off the field.

Howard is still on the list and has been a key part of the structure. Started well but really stagnated for a bit - went into this weird spot where as a perceived leader, confused himself to be an elite playmaker and lost a lot of good faith with dozens of unforced, costly basic skill errors. Seems to have stopped doing that stuff know as others have come in around him. Was expensive but we may still win this one.

Off the list…
Higgins and Ryder were great value
Membrey too
Wood has been exceptional

Jones and Stocker have been good overall
Dow too early to tell. Needs to get more ball but can be damaging
Cordy and Campbell mildly better than expected
Bonner started ok and may stay on the list for depth but disposal is a problem.

I recall a few cheap one or 2 year selections too… most more or less landed where we expected

And Jack Steele?

[skeptic]

Depends which way you’re arguing and what your bias is

Trying to find justification is easy if you try hard enough

Faint praise for good performance and condemnation for poor performance

Rate the following in recent times - our trade ins
Howard?
Hill?
Butler?
Henry?
Crouch?…. He was a FA


Then of course there was Hannebery

I get what you’re saying but naturally one is more likely to have better knowledge of players playing for you… which is kind of the point I’m making here. We’ve read our own pretty well.

Players traded in… then draftees is a whole other nuance to the conversation.

I’ll briefly play along though:

Hannebery was an unmitigated disaster. Nobody in the AFL world thought otherwise beyond our list managers apparently though I’ve always thought there was something more to the deal.

Henry too early to tell. Looks decent.

Butler… I don’t recall what we gave up for him but don’t think it was much. Has been good value but has struggled this year

Crouch has been excellent value to late last year and now.

Hill was super expensive… started slow, rough first year but has mostly been reasonable to good since. I don’t think we’ve won on that deal… especially considering we could have gotten Serong and kept Acres with those picks but he does appear to have given us reasonable value on and off the field.

Howard is still on the list and has been a key part of the structure. Started well but really stagnated for a bit - went into this weird spot where as a perceived leader, confused himself to be an elite playmaker and lost a lot of good faith with dozens of unforced, costly basic skill errors. Seems to have stopped doing that stuff know as others have come in around him. Was expensive but we may still win this one.

Off the list…
Higgins and Ryder were great value
Membrey too
Wood has been exceptional

Jones and Stocker have been good overall
Dow too early to tell. Needs to get more ball but can be damaging
Cordy and Campbell mildly better than expected
Bonner started ok and may stay on the list for depth but disposal is a problem.

I recall a few cheap one or 2 year selections too… most more or less landed where we expected

And Jack Steele?

Oh right… he’s always been one of us in my eyes. I guess I’d give him a pass too

[Kent the Butler]

>>>post by StPeter » Sun 18 Aug 2024 10:16pm
>>>At the time we traded Acres, as you say the stake knives, along with 2 first round draft picks, I said it is the worst decision of many shockers by the Saints over many years
>>>along with 2 first round draft picks

Is it possible you could please stop pushing this false narrative? We might have paid overs for Hill (then again, i think we got Liam Henry from them cheap), but we DID NOT give first rounds.

I'd list in detail what we did with our 2019 first round pick 6 - first of all splitting it with Giants, then using what we qot in that to that trade with Port for Paddy and Doogs, then using what we got back from the Port trade (pick 10) in the Hill trade - but I doubt it will stop the "two first round picks for Hill" thing.

Perhaps you can familiarise yourself using the link below if you wish to be factual in the future.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_AFL_draft

[Scollop]

Friday night game at the MCG has been suspended due to possibility of lightning. Contested possession count way down. Tackle count way down for both teams.

Collingwood are 41 points up with only 9 minutes to go until the final siren.

The commentators are suggesting with the score and with the game being a dead rubber, it's probably going to mean a continuation of more uncontested footy when they get back on the ground.

Should suit Jack Billings