Can we?
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- SaintPav
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Re: Can we?
Hopefully we’re all square in round 10.
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
- Life Long Saint
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Re: Can we?
A bit to unpack there.
Firstly, what do students of a protective barrier of water surrounding a castle know about footy?
Secondly, you'd have us down with Hawthorn, North, and West Coast?
Richmond, Adelaide, Gold Coast, and Essendon would all be predicted to finish lower than us.
You are being super critical. We lost to an now undefeated team in round 1 by a narrow margin.
We slept for the first quarter against Richmond and won.
We should have beaten Essendon but for inaccurate kicking when we controlled the game. Watch the Port v Essendon game. The difference was they didn't miss when they had dominant periods.
- The Fireman
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Re: Can we?
no "HE" doesn't..the Pundits do. non committal jargon.Life Long Saint wrote: ↑Thu 11 Apr 2024 10:10amA bit to unpack there.
Firstly, what do students of a protective barrier of water surrounding a castle know about footy?
Secondly, you'd have us down with Hawthorn, North, and West Coast?
Richmond, Adelaide, Gold Coast, and Essendon would all be predicted to finish lower than us.
You are being super critical. We lost to an now undefeated team in round 1 by a narrow margin.
We slept for the first quarter against Richmond and won.
We should have beaten Essendon but for inaccurate kicking when we controlled the game. Watch the Port v Essendon game. The difference was they didn't miss when they had dominant periods.
- samuraisaint
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Re: Can we?
GWS have only played Collingwood so far.
We, on the other hand, have played 4 of the last 5 premiers.
Carna mighties!
We, on the other hand, have played 4 of the last 5 premiers.
Carna mighties!
Your friendly neighbourhood samurai.
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Re: Can we?
Gold Coast are ahead of the curve with regards to talent acquisition and stockpiling, and by a fair margin, so there’s that and that’s going to always be the main ingredient that wins you flags. Their list is also now arguably ahead of us in terms of games played in terms of having a critical mass of players with 50 to 100 games, also another important ingredient for winning flags.Life Long Saint wrote: ↑Thu 11 Apr 2024 10:10amA bit to unpack there.
Firstly, what do students of a protective barrier of water surrounding a castle know about footy?
Secondly, you'd have us down with Hawthorn, North, and West Coast?
Richmond, Adelaide, Gold Coast, and Essendon would all be predicted to finish lower than us.
You are being super critical. We lost to an now undefeated team in round 1 by a narrow margin.
We slept for the first quarter against Richmond and won.
We should have beaten Essendon but for inaccurate kicking when we controlled the game. Watch the Port v Essendon game. The difference was they didn't miss when they had dominant periods.
I’m a gambling man and I have backed Gold Coast to take our place in the eight this year.
I agreed with most pundits at the start of the season that we would slide out of the 8 and so then it was a matter of guessing who would take our spot, so far Freo are certainties for the 8, and Gold Coast is the smoky, and Essendon will be close to pushing in as well.
- Life Long Saint
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Re: Can we?
Gold Coast have been "ahead of the curve" almost since their debut. But they've never delivered - despite all the draft picks they've been given and the talent at their disposal. Why is that?Vortex wrote: ↑Thu 11 Apr 2024 1:50pm Gold Coast are ahead of the curve with regards to talent acquisition and stockpiling, and by a fair margin, so there’s that and that’s going to always be the main ingredient that wins you flags. Their list is also now arguably ahead of us in terms of games played in terms of having a critical mass of players with 50 to 100 games, also another important ingredient for winning flags.
I’m a gambling man and I have backed Gold Coast to take our place in the eight this year.
I agreed with most pundits at the start of the season that we would slide out of the 8 and so then it was a matter of guessing who would take our spot, so far Freo are certainties for the 8, and Gold Coast is the smoky, and Essendon will be close to pushing in as well.
Cushy holiday feel lifestyle? Not professional enough? Not sure. But there has to be something in the fact that teams on the Gold Coast in all sports seem to avoid success.
Fremantle. Certainties? Wow! Good win in Perth over Brisbane who took a while to get going. Their one trip to Melbourne was against North (Bye). They've beaten the Crows in Perth and lost to Carlton.
There are no certainties for the eight. Teams most likely are Melbourne, Sydney, GWS, Port, and Carlton...I am adding Collingwood and Brisbane to make it. Everyone else is fighting for that one remaining spot including Geelong, Freo, Bulldogs, Essendon, and Gold Coast.
Teams that play North, West Coast, and Hawthorn more than once will have a clear advantage.
We only play West Coast twice. But we do play Richmond again at Marvel - so that helps.
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Re: Can we?
And therin lies the beauty of footy, it throws up so much conjecture. I hear what you're saying however this Gold Coast team might have got their act together this time around. Ironically in the time the GCS entered the comp our professionalism and recorded is comparable so as Saints fans we need to be careful about putting other clubs down.Life Long Saint wrote: ↑Thu 11 Apr 2024 2:11pmGold Coast have been "ahead of the curve" almost since their debut. But they've never delivered - despite all the draft picks they've been given and the talent at their disposal. Why is that?Vortex wrote: ↑Thu 11 Apr 2024 1:50pm Gold Coast are ahead of the curve with regards to talent acquisition and stockpiling, and by a fair margin, so there’s that and that’s going to always be the main ingredient that wins you flags. Their list is also now arguably ahead of us in terms of games played in terms of having a critical mass of players with 50 to 100 games, also another important ingredient for winning flags.
I’m a gambling man and I have backed Gold Coast to take our place in the eight this year.
I agreed with most pundits at the start of the season that we would slide out of the 8 and so then it was a matter of guessing who would take our spot, so far Freo are certainties for the 8, and Gold Coast is the smoky, and Essendon will be close to pushing in as well.
Cushy holiday feel lifestyle? Not professional enough? Not sure. But there has to be something in the fact that teams on the Gold Coast in all sports seem to avoid success.
Fremantle. Certainties? Wow! Good win in Perth over Brisbane who took a while to get going. Their one trip to Melbourne was against North (Bye). They've beaten the Crows in Perth and lost to Carlton.
There are no certainties for the eight. Teams most likely are Melbourne, Sydney, GWS, Port, and Carlton...I am adding Collingwood and Brisbane to make it. Everyone else is fighting for that one remaining spot including Geelong, Freo, Bulldogs, Essendon, and Gold Coast.
Teams that play North, West Coast, and Hawthorn more than once will have a clear advantage.
We only play West Coast twice. But we do play Richmond again at Marvel - so that helps.
But here's the one main difference, the AFL will pour millions into the GCS eternal until they are ultra successful, why?, because the executive bonus scheme provides the incentive.
But back on footy, keep your eye on Freo, I think they will rise this year.
- samuraisaint
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Re: Can we?
Agree with many of your points, except the one about the Suns having a record comparable with ours. Since the Suns' inception into the AFL, they have never come close to qualifying for finals, while we have made three finals series.Vortex wrote: ↑Thu 11 Apr 2024 7:46pmAnd therin lies the beauty of footy, it throws up so much conjecture. I hear what you're saying however this Gold Coast team might have got their act together this time around. Ironically in the time the GCS entered the comp our professionalism and recorded is comparable so as Saints fans we need to be careful about putting other clubs down.Life Long Saint wrote: ↑Thu 11 Apr 2024 2:11pmGold Coast have been "ahead of the curve" almost since their debut. But they've never delivered - despite all the draft picks they've been given and the talent at their disposal. Why is that?Vortex wrote: ↑Thu 11 Apr 2024 1:50pm Gold Coast are ahead of the curve with regards to talent acquisition and stockpiling, and by a fair margin, so there’s that and that’s going to always be the main ingredient that wins you flags. Their list is also now arguably ahead of us in terms of games played in terms of having a critical mass of players with 50 to 100 games, also another important ingredient for winning flags.
I’m a gambling man and I have backed Gold Coast to take our place in the eight this year.
I agreed with most pundits at the start of the season that we would slide out of the 8 and so then it was a matter of guessing who would take our spot, so far Freo are certainties for the 8, and Gold Coast is the smoky, and Essendon will be close to pushing in as well.
Cushy holiday feel lifestyle? Not professional enough? Not sure. But there has to be something in the fact that teams on the Gold Coast in all sports seem to avoid success.
Fremantle. Certainties? Wow! Good win in Perth over Brisbane who took a while to get going. Their one trip to Melbourne was against North (Bye). They've beaten the Crows in Perth and lost to Carlton.
There are no certainties for the eight. Teams most likely are Melbourne, Sydney, GWS, Port, and Carlton...I am adding Collingwood and Brisbane to make it. Everyone else is fighting for that one remaining spot including Geelong, Freo, Bulldogs, Essendon, and Gold Coast.
Teams that play North, West Coast, and Hawthorn more than once will have a clear advantage.
We only play West Coast twice. But we do play Richmond again at Marvel - so that helps.
But here's the one main difference, the AFL will pour millions into the GCS eternal until they are ultra successful, why?, because the executive bonus scheme provides the incentive.
But back on footy, keep your eye on Freo, I think they will rise this year.
And they have never won more than ten games in a season and that was only once, whereas we have won 11 or more games in 8 AFL seasons.
Our win/loss against the suns shows that we have won more than twice as many games against them as they have against us.
On exposed form I think that trend will continue this season too.
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Re: Can we?
Yes whilst I agree that everything you say is factual, it's more about how I rate success and that is being a side that is a sustainable top 4 side, and a contender and wins a flag every ten years or so. Based on that criteria is really what I meant. Like for example our finals appearances really are forgettable as we were really never a serious contender in those seasons and were essentially making up the numbers. As harsh as it may be, the reality us and teams like Gold Coast have been irrelevant to the rest of the comp, obviously you'd add North in the same category, actually Notth have reached prelims in that time but I can't remember anything special about those games...but I can tell out of the top of my head who won the flag for year back to probably the 50s.samuraisaint wrote: ↑Fri 12 Apr 2024 10:24amAgree with many of your points, except the one about the Suns having a record comparable with ours. Since the Suns' inception into the AFL, they have never come close to qualifying for finals, while we have made three finals series.Vortex wrote: ↑Thu 11 Apr 2024 7:46pmAnd therin lies the beauty of footy, it throws up so much conjecture. I hear what you're saying however this Gold Coast team might have got their act together this time around. Ironically in the time the GCS entered the comp our professionalism and recorded is comparable so as Saints fans we need to be careful about putting other clubs down.Life Long Saint wrote: ↑Thu 11 Apr 2024 2:11pmGold Coast have been "ahead of the curve" almost since their debut. But they've never delivered - despite all the draft picks they've been given and the talent at their disposal. Why is that?Vortex wrote: ↑Thu 11 Apr 2024 1:50pm Gold Coast are ahead of the curve with regards to talent acquisition and stockpiling, and by a fair margin, so there’s that and that’s going to always be the main ingredient that wins you flags. Their list is also now arguably ahead of us in terms of games played in terms of having a critical mass of players with 50 to 100 games, also another important ingredient for winning flags.
I’m a gambling man and I have backed Gold Coast to take our place in the eight this year.
I agreed with most pundits at the start of the season that we would slide out of the 8 and so then it was a matter of guessing who would take our spot, so far Freo are certainties for the 8, and Gold Coast is the smoky, and Essendon will be close to pushing in as well.
Cushy holiday feel lifestyle? Not professional enough? Not sure. But there has to be something in the fact that teams on the Gold Coast in all sports seem to avoid success.
Fremantle. Certainties? Wow! Good win in Perth over Brisbane who took a while to get going. Their one trip to Melbourne was against North (Bye). They've beaten the Crows in Perth and lost to Carlton.
There are no certainties for the eight. Teams most likely are Melbourne, Sydney, GWS, Port, and Carlton...I am adding Collingwood and Brisbane to make it. Everyone else is fighting for that one remaining spot including Geelong, Freo, Bulldogs, Essendon, and Gold Coast.
Teams that play North, West Coast, and Hawthorn more than once will have a clear advantage.
We only play West Coast twice. But we do play Richmond again at Marvel - so that helps.
But here's the one main difference, the AFL will pour millions into the GCS eternal until they are ultra successful, why?, because the executive bonus scheme provides the incentive.
But back on footy, keep your eye on Freo, I think they will rise this year.
And they have never won more than ten games in a season and that was only once, whereas we have won 11 or more games in 8 AFL seasons.
Our win/loss against the suns shows that we have won more than twice as many games against them as they have against us.
On exposed form I think that trend will continue this season too.
- Otiman
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Re: Can we?
In summary, we are shite, still.
It's a st kilda thing, it doesn't matter if we change all the off field staff, all the coaches, all of the playing list, we are still shite, change after change after ?
Shite is ingrained.
It's a st kilda thing, it doesn't matter if we change all the off field staff, all the coaches, all of the playing list, we are still shite, change after change after ?
Shite is ingrained.
The list changes for 2025 have begun, always an interesting time for an avid supporter.
- WellardSaint
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Re: Can we?
I was 5 yo in 66.
97, 2009-2010 are horrible memories.
I don't expect the club to even get to the Big Show in my lifetime.
Manipulated draw, expansion teams getting feted, Tassy coming in- there's more chance of us merging, than even getting to the GF
A real Sainter will pledge allegiance to the ❤ and despise the Pies, the Blues, and the Injectors.
Remember one of the 10 Commandments : Thou shalt have no other team before thee
Remember one of the 10 Commandments : Thou shalt have no other team before thee
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Re: Can we?
The sum of all parts is what gets the job done but the hardest part of all is talent acquisition, it's why I've said since Lyon retuned...."what is his magic trick".
What is the magic wand he has that no other person, coach or otherwise possessea that can turn water into wine.
Worst thing that could happen is for Lyon to be made the scape goat again. Yes it would seem that most parts are I place off the field, and that needs to remain that way for a long and stable time, equally we need to now keep Lyon as the coach for a long and stable time.
About 10 years feels like the right time frame for any plan to bare fruit. Bassett needs to oversee this for the same amount if time.
There are absolutely no short cuts for talent acquisition...it took Scott over 10 years to win his first flag and what was Geelongs secret...the sum of all parts supported by ti.e and stability.
- The Fireman
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Re: Can we?
Am I the only one on here that is sick of hearing about magic wands? And needing talent Over and over ?
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Re: Can we?
Incorrect Chris Scott won his first flag at Geelong in his first year of coaching!!!
Admittedly he walked into a Star studded outfit left behind by Thompson.
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Re: Can we?
Also Geelong's secret was more Father/Son selections than you could jump over and the image as a destination club possibly aided by some rather generous benefactors. That doesn't include the financial and draw benefits that they are gifted such as a home ground advantage that no other Victorian club could get near and a stadium deal (for a stadium paid for by the Vic Gov't) that is the envy of every other club. Those sort of advantages of which we have none are a pretty good short-cut.
Richmond may have been a better example for you to use but they also have the advantage of being a destination club unlike us.
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Re: Can we?
Yep...absolutely I am aware of the fact you allude to Loris, and I also agree he walked into a star studded outfit that could of won the 2011 flag without a coach...that 2011 flag is Bombers. It took Scott 11 years to win a flag with his own team, and he certainly didn't have to build a team from the ground up and create a high performance culture and it still took him 11 years.
If we are ever going to be fair dinkum we need to give a coach a similar time frame.
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Re: Can we?
Irrelevant how they acquired their talent with regards to the point about a club needing a critical mass of talent before they can compete. If you ain't got the required talent you got nothing and you certainly ain't winning a flag...even if you had the worlds best coach.SinCitySainter wrote: ↑Thu 02 May 2024 4:33pmAlso Geelong's secret was more Father/Son selections than you could jump over and the image as a destination club possibly aided by some rather generous benefactors. That doesn't include the financial and draw benefits that they are gifted such as a home ground advantage that no other Victorian club could get near and a stadium deal (for a stadium paid for by the Vic Gov't) that is the envy of every other club. Those sort of advantages of which we have none are a pretty good short-cut.
Richmond may have been a better example for you to use but they also have the advantage of being a destination club unlike us.
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Re: Can we?
Actually, I think it is particularly relevant given that Father/Son selections and preferential ability to trade are the very short cuts to talent acquisition that Geelong have had and to some degree still have that we do not. For us to have acquired the talents of a Jeremy Cameron we would have to have offered him 300 - 400 K more than Geelong did.
There are actually a number of short cuts to talent acquisition, father/sons, interstate academies, being a destination club and even brown paper bags. However, we have not been able to avail ourselves of the father/son short cut and will never be able to use the others.
I agree to some degree that there are no short cuts for talent acquisition but that is only true for us and similar small poorer clubs.
That is why I believe the only avenue available to us is the draft and while we loiter around mid-table rather than accepting a full and aggressive rebuild we are stuck in no man's land.
There are actually a number of short cuts to talent acquisition, father/sons, interstate academies, being a destination club and even brown paper bags. However, we have not been able to avail ourselves of the father/son short cut and will never be able to use the others.
I agree to some degree that there are no short cuts for talent acquisition but that is only true for us and similar small poorer clubs.
That is why I believe the only avenue available to us is the draft and while we loiter around mid-table rather than accepting a full and aggressive rebuild we are stuck in no man's land.
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Re: Can we?
1 million percent!SinCitySainter wrote: ↑Thu 02 May 2024 6:54pm
I agree to some degree that there are no short cuts for talent acquisition but that is only true for us and similar small poorer clubs.
I make this point often, it is much much harder for poor Melbourne clubs like ours, which there are only a few.
It's just hilarious to think talent acquisition is solved by a single person called the coach....and then expect that person can also solve the problem In only 2 to 4 years.
Just not possible unless that person has a magic wand.
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Re: Can we?
Recruiting is number one. Recruit poorly and you end up a persistent cellar dweller or scratching around the middle ground.
We have a highly competent coaching panel
We have recently recruited well
We have appointed a recruiting manager with excellent credentials and an impressive record
We've sorted out our salary cap
We've taken steps in the right direction for the first time in 20 years
We have a highly competent coaching panel
We have recently recruited well
We have appointed a recruiting manager with excellent credentials and an impressive record
We've sorted out our salary cap
We've taken steps in the right direction for the first time in 20 years