Why wait

[B.M]

Until half time to play Windhager in his best role?

To put Sinclair through the centre square - when he was having no impact across HB - they obviously put work into Sinclair

Why put a 18yo kid opposed to the AFLs best contested ball winner - to get a hiding - in a final?
Not the time for teaching lessons

I thought the game was a bit of a s*** show!

[B.M]

And why

Wilkie to Greene - when he gave Jesse Hogan a bath last time?

[lewdogs]

Why not teach lessons in a final? We've played with that philosophy all year and it got us to where we were. The game was a great learning curve and we were still in it at the start of the last quarter.

After every loss it's easy to say "why didn't we do a b or c" I think the main factor for us losing was Membrey being withdrawn the day of the game with what sounds like a serious issue. Imagine the impact on the playing group let alone our forward line.

[cwrcyn]

We can ask why about a lot of things, but the bottom line is we were beaten because GWS exploited our weakest link - our midfield run/spread/foot skills. The combination of elite speed, skill, and endurance is something we're lacking compared to them and it stood out during the game. It can't be fixed overnight, and unless we improve those elements in our midfield, we'll not progress from where we stand right now.

Credit to GWS. They are simply quicker and more skilled where it counts

[Yorkeys]

We can ask why about a lot of things, but the bottom line is we were beaten because GWS exploited our weakest link - our midfield run/spread/foot skills. The combination of elite speed, skill, and endurance is something we're lacking compared to them and it stood out during the game. It can't be fixed overnight, and unless we improve those elements in our midfield, we'll not progress from where we stand right now.

Credit to GWS. They are simply quicker and more skilled where it counts

Agree. I thought GWS looked as good as the Lions when they beat us quite easily at Marvel, i.e. best team I've seen live this season. Wouldn't be surprised if they beat Port. Score was respectable but GWS always seemed a better team, maybe the score flattered us, we never gave up but they always seemed to have a trump to play when mood took them. Too big/quick. Our forwards had to play out of their skin and only Sharman did. Max was ok but missed an early dolly. Higgins season exit interview will be interesting. I imagine he will be politely told he's not an automatic pick anymore (see Billings/Peris et al).

[Otiman]

Yes a lot of those selections suggested we werent going all in on the win.

[shrodes]

And why

Wilkie to Greene - when he gave Jesse Hogan a bath last time?

Read an article on the Roar about this which I thought was well written and analysed

https://www.theroar.com.au/2023/09/09/f ... ate-price/

Wilkie is very good but clearly not the right matchup

[wally]

I though our lack was skill was stood out the inability to hit a target hurt us and they counter attacked

[SaintPav]

Don’t disagree but it’s all after the fact.

We also looked very flat and slow. Not sure how much that had to do with the TM situation.

[Vortex]

I though our lack was skill was stood out the inability to hit a target hurt us and they counter attacked

the gap in skill level is massive, I mean who watched say for example the Collingwood V Melbourne final on Thursday and thought we could compete at that level. We are years away from it, I fear our ladder position this year over inflates where we think we are at.

[saynta]

Yes a lot of those selections suggested we werent going all in on the win.

Exactly. I thought the coaches were all in their "learning curve' mode.

[Vortex]

Don’t disagree but it’s all after the fact.

We also looked very flat and slow. Not sure how much that had to do with the TM situation.

yeah the Members situation wouldn't have helped but did anyone genuinely think we weren't making up the numbers except the most rusted on supporter?

Most pundits and media commentators predicted an easy win to GWS and they weren't wrong.

The list is well short of being capable of contending and will take a few years to build.

Gee I hope Members can get his life back to some type of contentment though, it kind of puts football into perspective.

[SaintPav]

Don’t disagree but it’s all after the fact.

We also looked very flat and slow. Not sure how much that had to do with the TM situation.

yeah the Members situation wouldn't have helped but did anyone genuinely think we weren't making up the numbers except the most rusted on supporter?

Most pundits and media commentators predicted an easy win to GWS and they weren't wrong.

The list is well short of being capable of contending and will take a few years to build.

Gee I hope Members can get his life back to some type of contentment though, it kind of puts football into perspective.

I was hopeful but not expecting a victory, and I thought the media wasn't giving us our fair due. Call me deluded, but I was secretly hoping we might even go further than week 2 of the finals.

However, as you have pointed out, the difference in skill level, ball movement, and speed between us and GWS was stark and it has been all year against the really good teams; at least it was a wake-up call.

While I think we deserved to be there, I have no high expectations of where we finish next season. Every season is different but I'd be surprised if we make the top 8 again.

The club probably needs another 3-4 seasons to build a list to compete in finals so it needs to get creative and I have no doubt RTB will make the tough calls which will allow us to be creative.

We also need to factor in Tasmania coming into the competition too.

[B.M]

No one even knows the issue with Tim?


After the fact by supporters - but shouldn’t be by AFL coaches

Phillipou has been gifted games

Others have been overlooked - Billings, Byrnes, Bytel are all better footballer - at this point of their careers

I thought the selection since R12 has been mystifying

He has favourites and those on the outer - like 2010-11

[Vortex]

Don’t disagree but it’s all after the fact.

We also looked very flat and slow. Not sure how much that had to do with the TM situation.

yeah the Members situation wouldn't have helped but did anyone genuinely think we weren't making up the numbers except the most rusted on supporter?

Most pundits and media commentators predicted an easy win to GWS and they weren't wrong.

The list is well short of being capable of contending and will take a few years to build.

Gee I hope Members can get his life back to some type of contentment though, it kind of puts football into perspective.

I was hopeful but not expecting a victory, and I thought the media wasn't giving us our fair due. Call me deluded, but I was secretly hoping we might even go further than week 2 of the finals.

However, as you have pointed out, the difference in skill level, ball movement, and speed between us and GWS was stark and it has been all year against the really good teams; at least it was a wake-up call.

While I think we deserved to be there, I have no high expectations of where we finish next season. Every season is different but I'd be surprised if we make the top 8 again.

The club probably needs another 3-4 seasons to build a list to compete in finals so it needs to get creative and I have no doubt RTB will make the tough calls which will allow us to be creative.

We also need to factor in Tasmania coming into the competition too.

Even Lyon was honest after game and alluding to the point you make re not being in finals again for a while with comments like "It was never going to be a one-year build. We've got to build it out over a period of time."

Fortunately we got lucky with some young talent in the last couple of drafts so hopefully that continues.

[SaintPav]

Appears so…

[SaintPav]

No one even knows the issue with Tim?


After the fact by supporters - but shouldn’t be by AFL coaches

Phillipou has been gifted games

Others have been overlooked - Billings, Byrnes, Bytel are all better footballer - at this point of their careers

I thought the selection since R12 has been mystifying

He has favourites and those on the outer - like 2010-11

Don’t disagree.

Why play Phillipou?

Perhaps sacrificing the present for the future..

They obviously think that playing him in the VFL is a waste of time and they want to fast track him asap.

[saintsRrising]

First time round Lyon was bagged for not playing the kids. Lyon's brief back then was to win it NOW with the list he had. We had some very good players, especially mids, but we also had a number of gaps and not so good players.

This time around he is bagged for playing the kids. Lyon's brief this second time around is to build a list that can be a genuine contender. This time around we have about the weakest midfield group going around.

So yes now that Billings (I rate Billings higher than many on this forum. But he is a good player that plays well most games) is probably fit again if you want to try and win games now, you play Billings over Poo (I probably would have). However if your focus is more to become a good team in the future, then you get games into your best youth.

So yes with the Poo this year his form waned, and if this year is your only concern then he probably should have been rested. The same with Windy at times, and even Owens who dipped late in the year.


PS: Yes the Roar article is pretty spot on.

[The G Train Legacy]

Don’t disagree but it’s all after the fact.

We also looked very flat and slow. Not sure how much that had to do with the TM situation.

yeah the Members situation wouldn't have helped but did anyone genuinely think we weren't making up the numbers except the most rusted on supporter?

Most pundits and media commentators predicted an easy win to GWS and they weren't wrong.

The list is well short of being capable of contending and will take a few years to build.

Gee I hope Members can get his life back to some type of contentment though, it kind of puts football into perspective.

I was hopeful but not expecting a victory, and I thought the media wasn't giving us our fair due. Call me deluded, but I was secretly hoping we might even go further than week 2 of the finals.

However, as you have pointed out, the difference in skill level, ball movement, and speed between us and GWS was stark and it has been all year against the really good teams; at least it was a wake-up call.

While I think we deserved to be there, I have no high expectations of where we finish next season. Every season is different but I'd be surprised if we make the top 8 again.

The club probably needs another 3-4 seasons to build a list to compete in finals so it needs to get creative and I have no doubt RTB will make the tough calls which will allow us to be creative.

We also need to factor in Tasmania coming into the competition too.

Even Lyon was honest after game and alluding to the point you make re not being in finals again for a while with comments like "It was never going to be a one-year build. We've got to build it out over a period of time."

Fortunately we got lucky with some young talent in the last couple of drafts so hopefully that continues.

Lyon did not allude or infer that we won't be making Finals again for a while.

He did refuse to say that we'd be there again next year, saying that you've got to earn your spot. He's just taking nothing for granted.

While it is indeed possible that we won't go as well in the W/L sense next year and may not play Finals. After all Adelaide, Gold Coast, Western Bulldogs, Geelong and maybe Hawthorn will all be knocking on the door. I wouldn't be writing us off in regard to getting there again, or even doing better.

If we get Henry and Dow, if Zak Jones stays healthy, then suddenly our midfield looks more dynamic and skillful. Owens, Windhager, Phillipou & Wanganeen-Milera will have another pre-season under their belts and hopefully Max King has an injury free season. It's a big call to say we won't be playing finals for a while.

[Vortex]

No one even knows the issue with Tim?


After the fact by supporters - but shouldn’t be by AFL coaches

Phillipou has been gifted games

Others have been overlooked - Billings, Byrnes, Bytel are all better footballer - at this point of their careers

I thought the selection since R12 has been mystifying

He has favourites and those on the outer - like 2010-11

Billings and Bytel had their papers stamped long ago.

Byrnes unfortunately will only ever be a fringe and depth player.

I can see why Pou was getting a game, clearly Lyon thinking long term and plus, there really wasn't anyone else banging down the door at Sandy which is more to the reason why be was getting games.

[The G Train Legacy]

No one even knows the issue with Tim?


After the fact by supporters - but shouldn’t be by AFL coaches

Phillipou has been gifted games

Others have been overlooked - Billings, Byrnes, Bytel are all better footballer - at this point of their careers

I thought the selection since R12 has been mystifying

He has favourites and those on the outer - like 2010-11

Don’t disagree.

Why play Phillipou?

Perhaps sacrificing the present for the future..

They obviously think that playing him in the VFL is a waste of time and they want to fast track him asap.

Phillipou earned his spot. Agreed he probably had his worst game of the year, but he'll be better for it.

A few weeks ago BM pointed out that he didn't get his hands on it when he went into the middle, which was a fair observation. However, he started getting a few in the last 2 games and watch out when he starts getting more. He always finds a team mate when he gets the ball, he's got a side step and can tun on a 5 cent coin. The only way for him to learn (and he will) is to play. I doubt there would be much value in playing him at Sandy, he's far too good and it would be too easy for him.

People need to watch his game against Geelong a couple of weeks ago. That's why he was selected every week and why he had to play yesterday. In the end he had a dirty day, he'll learn and I bet next time he'll be ready to go.

[B.M]

Mate - it’s a final

With 68 000 spectators at the ground hoping for a win

You pick the best team that gives you the best chance of winning

Gifting games in the HA is one thing - but overlooking proven players for kids who have done pretty much FA is a bit stupid imo!

[B.M]

Why will he be better for having his worse game?

[saintsRrising]

Why play Phillipou?

Perhaps sacrificing the present for the future..

They obviously think that playing him in the VFL is a waste of time and they want to fast track him asap.

I think Lyon, and our other coaches, in this year of exploration (and high injuries) to see what players can do, made the brutal decision early on that our list is not good enough to win the flag as is, and to focus on building a list that will be good enough. Easier said than down of course.

This has included getting games into our best youth. It has also included Sharman having to try different roles (including defensive forward and wing), and become more versatile to be brought back in.

I know in one interview that when Lyon was asked about Billings, that Lyon indicated that preseason when Ross met with Billings on where Billings saw himself, that Billings saw himself as a small forward. That put him back in the queue behind Higgins, Butler and Gresh, and then his injuries limited his games as well.

With Sharman Lyon indicated to Sharman that he needed to be more versatile. And Sharman played various roles to earns his stripes and place back in the firsts.



This trade period is going to be interesting to see who goes, and who comes. The comers looking to be a lot more youth, in part as there is not a lot of star power available to lure.

Currently that seems to be Henry 22 yrs 0 months, Dow 23 years, 10 months, and then a bunch of draftees.

If Campbell goes, then another back up ruck.

[SaintPav]

Can Billings play Jack Higgins’ role?