Weapons up our sleeve for the finals

[Otiman]

I reckon we have a few weapons up our sleeve for the finals.

For me, the big one is Windhager in a midfield tagging role.

What else have we got waiting in the wings?

[Beno88]

If Membrey, Hayes & King all play, don't underestimate how much easier that makes the roles of Dan Butler and Jack Higgins.

When those five play in the same side, Butler and Higgins average 6.0 scoring shots per game. Their career average at the Saints is 2.1.

[Saintmike65]

If Membrey, Hayes & King all play, don't underestimate how much easier that makes the roles of Dan Butler and Jack Higgins.

When those five play in the same side, Butler and Higgins average 6.0 scoring shots per game. Their career average at the Saints is 2.1.

I’m hoping that’ll be our forward mix, this would also release Mitch for a midfield role

[meher baba]

If Membrey, Hayes & King all play, don't underestimate how much easier that makes the roles of Dan Butler and Jack Higgins.

When those five play in the same side, Butler and Higgins average 6.0 scoring shots per game. Their career average at the Saints is 2.1.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe we are only talking about 6 games in total here, in one of which Hayes was subbed off early on. It's not a huge sample.

My concern is that Higgins seems to be badly out of form at the moment, and I'm not sure what the solution to that is going to be.

[meher baba]

Also, re Hayes: I'm far from certain that he will play in the first final unless King doesn't come back. It would be out of character for Lyon to drop Sharman at this stage: like the Australian cricket selectors, once he has gained confidence in a player, he is very much inclined to stick with them through thick and thin: eg, Phillipou and Dougal Howard this year, and many others in the past.

With Lyon I've learnt over the years that, whenever I feel inclined to want somebody to be dropped and to be replaced with another player, it almost never happens. Week to week fluctuations in a player's form don't interest him as much as they do most fans and even most other coaches. If a player has shown that they can perform a particular role he wants them to perform, and there isn't an alternative option that is 100% certain to be better, then he sticks with what he knows and trusts.

I reckon it's very much the right selection strategy over the longer term and thank goodness fans don't get to choose teams or we would have 6-10 changes very week as scapegoats would keep getting dropped and then the players who replaced them would then become scapegoats. But, having said that, his inflexible approach does get up my back sometimes.

[bigcarl]

It’s a question of whether we go two key forwards (King & Hayes) and one third tall (Membrey or Sharman). Or one key forward (King) and two third talls (Membrey and Sharman).

Arguably either can work given adequate supply and support upfield.

Personally I prefer two key forwards for structural reasons, but neither would surprise me.

You’d have to ask RTB

The other thing is that now, surely, with four tallish forwards fit, we can employ Owens mainly in midfield.

[Impatient Sainter]

Mitch Owens will return to form after a couple of quiter games. With Ross back in the mids I think we will throw him back as the chop out ruckman and he will have a blinder kicking 5 goals.

Max King to kick 6 goals - without Taylor playing.

Sharman will get the nod over Hayes as he does a good job on dangerous defenders, so he will go to Himmelberg and do a job.

Stocker to throw his weight around in defence and get the GWS smalls looking over their shoulders.

Ronnie Byrnes as the super sub over Clark, he just provides so much more run than Clark.

[Scollop]

The long range forecast atm is for a little bit of rain on Saturday 9th September. Also some precipitation in the days leading up to this day plus...the days after

Therefore we have to assume it's going to be like a cake of soap. They need to practise handling a slippery footy.

Anyone like Sharman or Higgins who has a tendency to fall over, should only be considered if others are injured.

Hopefully lots of skills drills. We need to be sharp and focused. Lots of clean one grab handling of footies at our practice sessions.

I'd have Hayes ahead of Sharman if it's a wet day.

I'd have Billings ahead of Higgins.

Higgins game against Brisbane is probably indicative of what to expect. He crumbles under pressure way too often. I realise Higgo has been first 22, but stiff cheddar.

[nostalgicsaint]

The long range forecast atm is for a little bit of rain on Saturday 9th September. Also some precipitation in the days leading up to this day plus...the days after

Therefore we have to assume it's going to be like a cake of soap. They need to practise handling a slippery footy.

Anyone like Sharman or Higgins who has a tendency to fall over, should only be considered if others are injured.

Hopefully lots of skills drills. We need to be sharp and focused. Lots of clean one grab handling of footies at our practice sessions.

I'd have Hayes ahead of Sharman if it's a wet day.

I'd have Billings ahead of Higgins.

Higgins game against Brisbane is probably indicative of what to expect. He crumbles under pressure way too often. I realise Higgo has been first 22, but stiff cheddar.

Agree.

[Sanctorum]

My concern is that Higgins seems to be badly out of form at the moment, and I'm not sure what the solution to that is going to be.

I suspect Higgins will relish playing in a big game on the G in front of a very loud pro-St Kilda crowd, play his heart out and jag a few goals.

[Otiman]

The long range forecast atm is for a little bit of rain on Saturday 9th September. Also some precipitation in the days leading up to this day plus...the days after

Therefore we have to assume it's going to be like a cake of soap. They need to practise handling a slippery footy.

Someone take a hose to open training tomorrow.

[Vortex]

Also, re Hayes: I'm far from certain that he will play in the first final unless King doesn't come back. It would be out of character for Lyon to drop Sharman at this stage: like the Australian cricket selectors, once he has gained confidence in a player, he is very much inclined to stick with them through thick and thin: eg, Phillipou and Dougal Howard this year, and many others in the past.

With Lyon I've learnt over the years that, whenever I feel inclined to want somebody to be dropped and to be replaced with another player, it almost never happens. Week to week fluctuations in a player's form don't interest him as much as they do most fans and even most other coaches. If a player has shown that they can perform a particular role he wants them to perform, and there isn't an alternative option that is 100% certain to be better, then he sticks with what he knows and trusts.

I reckon it's very much the right selection strategy over the longer term and thank goodness fans don't get to choose teams or we would have 6-10 changes very week as scapegoats would keep getting dropped and then the players who replaced them would then become scapegoats. But, having said that, his inflexible approach does get up my back sometimes.

Absolutely Ross sticks with players he's gained confidence in, and that confidence comes from players who are competitive beasts, tough in the contest, flint hard and built for finals, so Hayes will play ahead of Sharman on that basis without doubt. Sharman played an absolute meek stinker once again when it got hot in the kitchen against quality opposition, he just isn't suited to AFL and is way off the pace.

As others have said I think our forward line is as strong as it can be with King, Members and Hayes, and Buttler & Higgo zipping around, only question is have they played together enough to develop enough cohesion and synergy.

[Scollop]

My concern is that Higgins seems to be badly out of form at the moment, and I'm not sure what the solution to that is going to be.

I suspect Higgins will relish playing in a big game on the G in front of a very loud pro-St Kilda crowd, play his heart out and jag a few goals.

I just think he has cost us games in the past and I expect him to cost us again in the future. It doesn't matter whether it's at home or interstate.

The nickname 'Missy' was when he kicked 1.6 against Sydney in Sydney. He also cost us at Marvel against Hawthorn in Round 11 this year.

His disposal efficiency at our last home game against Geelong was 50%.

His disposal efficiency against Brisbane was slightly better at 55%.

He's good at receiving the footy. He's good at kicking junk time goals (against Geelong) but he regularly misses targets when he has a simple handball to execute.

[Vortex]

My concern is that Higgins seems to be badly out of form at the moment, and I'm not sure what the solution to that is going to be.

I suspect Higgins will relish playing in a big game on the G in front of a very loud pro-St Kilda crowd, play his heart out and jag a few goals.

I just think he has cost us games in the past and I expect him to cost us again in the future. It doesn't matter whether it's at home or interstate.

The nickname 'Missy' was when he kicked 1.6 against Sydney in Sydney. He also cost us at Marvel against Hawthorn in Round 11 this year.

His disposal efficiency at our last home game against Geelong was 50%.

His disposal efficiency against Brisbane was slightly better at

He's good at receiving the footy. He's good at kicking junk time goals (against Geelong) but he regularly misses targets when he has a simple handball to execute.

yeah but he won our leading goal kicker so he's got some value, and look King has cost us a place in finals and he's supposed to be number one banana in front of the sticks so we should cut the boy some slack on that score.

Has had to play a role higher up the ground this year as part of our wall defence while the Talls have been missing so will be interesting to see how he goes with Hayes, Members and King to loiter around.

[Vortex]

Mitch Owens will return to form after a couple of quiter games. With Ross back in the mids I think we will throw him back as the chop out ruckman and he will have a blinder kicking 5 goals.

Max King to kick 6 goals - without Taylor playing.

Sharman will get the nod over Hayes as he does a good job on dangerous defenders, so he will go to Himmelberg and do a job.

Stocker to throw his weight around in defence and get the GWS smalls looking over their shoulders.

Ronnie Byrnes as the super sub over Clark, he just provides so much more run than Clark.

Andrew Harris is a dangerous defender and Sharman ended up at the bottom of the stats sheet while Mckenna also gave the Lions 622m of drive of their halfback.

Mitch looks a little cooked, needs the season to end and get another pre season under his belt, but could find the heat and pace of a final a little too much at this stage.

Stocker is build for finals and I expect him to find the finals environment to his liking but we'll see.

Byrnes is too inconsistent and it's what is holding him back, he only puts in a quarter or two per game, probably what makes him a good sub while he struggles at the fringes.

[Scollop]

he won our leading goal kicker so he's got some value...

so will be interesting to see how he goes with Hayes, Members and King to loiter around.

There's no way Higgins would have been our highest goal kicker if Membrey and King were available

I know he's liked in the group so I also think there's no way he'll be dropped. I just hope he doesn't continue to cost us games

[Vortex]

...

yeah but he won our leading goal kicker so he's got some value...

so will be interesting to see how he goes with Hayes, Members and King to loiter around.

Interesting yes. Predictable no

let's just hope we get some attacking flare...and in a final no less, just wish we had even a couple more games of that group I mention playing together before the final.

[Scollop]

...

yeah but he won our leading goal kicker so he's got some value...

so will be interesting to see how he goes with Hayes, Members and King to loiter around.

Interesting yes. Predictable no

let's just hope we get some attacking flare...and in a final no less, just wish we had even a couple more games of that group I mention playing together before the final.

Butler and Higgo have played together for 5 years

Hill and our mids have been delivering the ball forward to Higgo for 3 years.

That hasn't helped Higgo's ability to take a chest mark or find his mate Dan with a handball or kick for goal (his set shot conversion would have to be the worst in the league)

[shanegrambeau]

Small forwards are surely the hardest players to mark for ‘form’.

They are like parasites and live off opportunities.

I can’t say when Butler and Higgins are in or out of form.

I also don’t understand how posters rate Hayes so highly based on such a tiny sample of viewing.

I count one great game so far, his first in our colours. But if you say so… I think he is treated by fans like Josh Battle. Except the forward equivalent. Tough, presents, skills are solid without being exceptional. We can’t weave like Owens can. That’s what I think Michito is gonna be marked with. He is slippery and weavy like a big Daicos.

[Vortex]

...

yeah but he won our leading goal kicker so he's got some value...

so will be interesting to see how he goes with Hayes, Members and King to loiter around.

Interesting yes. Predictable no

let's just hope we get some attacking flare...and in a final no less, just wish we had even a couple more games of that group I mention playing together before the final.

Butler and Higgo have played together for 5 years

Hill and our mids have been delivering the ball forward to Higgo for 3 years.

That hasn't helped Higgo's ability to take a chest mark or find his mate Dan with a handball or kick for goal (his set shot conversion would have to be the worst in the league)

yeah be good if he could improve it but gee he still has kicked nearly 40 in the H&A season as well as playing a role a bit further up the ground to help out with the wall and drive it back our way. Just recon if the Hayes, Members and King can cause the defense to focus on them then either Higgo or Buttler will be salivating at that prospect which is a luxury the forward line hasn't had had all season.

[Vortex]

...

yeah but he won our leading goal kicker so he's got some value...

so will be interesting to see how he goes with Hayes, Members and King to loiter around.

Interesting yes. Predictable no

let's just hope we get some attacking flare...and in a final no less, just wish we had even a couple more games of that group I mention playing together before the final.

Butler and Higgo have played together for 5 years

Hill and our mids have been delivering the ball forward to Higgo for 3 years.

That hasn't helped Higgo's ability to take a chest mark or find his mate Dan with a handball or kick for goal (his set shot conversion would have to be the worst in the league)

yeah be good if he could improve it but gee he still has kicked nearly 40 in the H&A season as well as playing a role a bit further up the ground to help out with the wall and drive it back our way. Just recon if the Hayes, Members and King can cause the defense to focus on them then either Higgo or Buttler will be salivating at that prospect which is a luxury the forward line hasn't had had all season.

[Scollop]

...

yeah but he won our leading goal kicker so he's got some value...

so will be interesting to see how he goes with Hayes, Members and King to loiter around.

Interesting yes. Predictable no

let's just hope we get some attacking flare...and in a final no less, just wish we had even a couple more games of that group I mention playing together before the final.

Butler and Higgo have played together for 5 years

Hill and our mids have been delivering the ball forward to Higgo for 3 years.

That hasn't helped Higgo's ability to take a chest mark or find his mate Dan with a handball or kick for goal (his set shot conversion would have to be the worst in the league)

yeah be good if he could improve it but gee he still has kicked nearly 40 in the H&A season as well as playing a role a bit further up the ground to help out with the wall and drive it back our way. Just recon if the Hayes, Members and King can cause the defense to focus on them then either Higgo or Buttler will be salivating at that prospect which is a luxury the forward line hasn't had had all season.

Let's hope Higgins remembers his role and doesn't compete in the air with our talls and let's hope he does what a small is supposed to, and he gets front and centre

Anyway Vortex...
Good to see you positive on the Saints prospects. My sphynctor will gradually be getting tighter as game day approaches

[Otiman]

Sounds like a lot of focus on the forward line.

I'm keen to see what we do in the midfield.

[skeptic]

I’ll call it…

IMO, Membrey has gotten so little fanfare this year and despite his few goals last week, hasn’t been overly standout’ish whilst we’ve been playing him in to fitness.

Looks to me like he’s back and IMO he’ll punish GWS for not giving him the respect he deserves

[shanegrambeau]

Going out on a (desperate?) limb here…

Dare I say

Stats will tell you that Tim Membrey has a poor record against both Sydney, and indeed, most interstate teams.

Sydney saw him this year and he was a shadow of himself as far as we were concerned

So Shane Brilliant Grambeau suggests that GWS will underage/disrespect him and by the time they realize (10 mins into the second) he will have four in the board.

It will be a low scoring slug fest. (Both teams highest rated defence) Tim’s four goal first quarter will be the difference between the teams. We will hold in the grind!
Then St kilda’s