Remember to take this into account

[Bruce G McAbee]

As mad as I am regarding our form over the last 2 months I have to remember that our forward line is missing 80 odd goals this year.
That's what King and Membrey kicked last year, almost 4 goals a game between them.
It still doesn't excuse the stupid delivery we make into our forward line that is like Reiwoldt and Kosi are still playing for us.
Nor the complete loss of skill we have suffered.
It will be interesting to see who is let go.
However, with the team playing like it is, it will be difficult to attract top line talent.

[bakes]

Speaking about forward lines, how good did we look when Marshall went to full forward? Finally some height.

I had Tom Campbell in my Round 1 team and I still think he should be in there at full forward so that we have some height to kick it too.

I know I know, he's not a forward. But he adds structure and takes the opposition's tallest defender.

Then when Marshall needs ruck relief, they can swap over.

[older saint]

Speaking about forward lines, how good did we look when Marshall went to full forward? Finally some height.

I had Tom Campbell in my Round 1 team and I still think he should be in there at full forward so that we have some height to kick it too.

I know I know, he's not a forward. But he adds structure and takes the opposition's tallest defender.

Then when Marshall needs ruck relief, they can swap over.

While i don't disagree we need another tall marking option I think the Grundy experiment has shown you can just plonk a ruckman forward and hope it works. Marshall was a forward /ruck originally so knows how to play forward. leading patterns, when to lead etc.

Hayes would be a good option (if fit), or perhaps Cordy but unless committing to playing Marshal 60% plus forward then i cant see a spot for Campbell working.

[bigcarl]

Yes, amazing what a viable target can do. Suddenly there is an urgency to move the ball forward quickly and directly.

Viable target(s) = Quick and direct ball movement.
No viable target(s) = Slow and hesitant ball movement.

What you have in front of the ball is directly linked to how it is delivered. That is sometimes overlooked in all the carping on about poor delivery.

[The_Dud]

How many did King and Membrey kick in the first 6 rounds, where we were 5-1 and putting up decent scores?

[bigcarl]

How many did King and Membrey kick in the first 6 rounds, where we were 5-1 and putting up decent scores?

During Ross’s honeymoon period? He told them Anthony Caminiti was Tony Lockett and they believed him.

Seriously, I think we were fitter and better prepared than most of the other sides. And they hadn’t been able to put much work into our game plan.

Plus we had Cordy up forward for height/strength/experience/structure. Not a great target, true, but at least could stop a Sicily/May-type from dominating.

[Yorkeys]

North have some talent: McKay, Xerri, Goldstein, Larkey and #30 are damn big men with ability, LDU is a real class mid, Tarry Thomas is a very good player with deceptive size, others are always getting honourable mentions in dispatches e.g. Sheezel, Wardlaw. They just don't know how to win its been so long.
We won on the back of a miracle goal outside 50 by the sometimes maligned Caminiti who marked strongly from the back, then powered through two in close attendance, a very messy shinned goal from Higgins that defied the defender's hand and the normal physics of a bouncing oval ball, the early last quarter goal from Marshall and a two grab intercept from Steele lying on his back. What are the odds on all that. Umpires called back LDU when he was streaming towards goal because a North chap fell over a sprawling Marshall, a call that is often play on.
Also with Gresham, Butler and yesterday Bytel in the team we play about 1.5 men short (i.e. 20.5 not 22, not height wise, although we are not an overly tall side). Best ball user was hospitalised early.
Ross is an ok coach, not great, but OK. Ratts had North really up and about. He also is a good coach and the North players obviously want to play for him; our guys responded in a terrific way in the last quarter, so whatever Ross said worked. Desperation is the mother of invention. Shame its not evident on selection nights in the calm warm of the meeting room.
We can't afford to count on fortunate bounces and playing Butler, Gresham and Bytel who seldom contribute much and are not physical weapons against good sides with very good coaches.
Our side is capable, the list is not so awful, just needs to cut a few of the non contributors and find guys that can. Did not miss Stocker in defence, but he probably would have played better than poor Jack, who seemed to know it might be his last chance.
Hopefully fortune has turned our way.

[Bruce G McAbee]

How many did King and Membrey kick in the first 6 rounds, where we were 5-1 and putting up decent scores?

That is true, but we also played more chaos football as well which suited the forward line.
But, the injuries to Membrey and King caught up to us, which they were always going to eventually do.
If we had a full list to choose from, Phillipou and Caminiti probably would havechad a couple of stints at Sandringham to give them a break as they are both first year players and Caminiti didn't do a full pre season.
We have done remarkably well with our win loss record, but we need to find at least 5 goals more a game next year if we want to be a final 8 side.

[King Max]

We won on the back of a miracle goal outside 50 by the sometimes maligned Caminiti who marked strongly from the back, then powered through two in close attendance, a very messy shinned goal from Higgins that defied the defender's hand and the normal physics of a bouncing oval ball, the early last quarter goal from Marshall and a two grab intercept from Steele lying on his back. What are the odds on all that.

You know we kicked 1.12 from late in the first to early in the last quarter. And that doesn't count the out on the fulls and shots from inside 50 that didn't make the distance.
We were the better team and deserved to win.

[Life Long Saint]

We were the better team and deserved to win.

There were large periods of that game when we most certainly were not the better team.

[Life Long Saint]

We were the better team and deserved to win.

There were large periods of that game when we most certainly were not the better team.

[Killa]

It was instructive that the Coach referred to Membrey and King - then referencing the players taking responsibility (so “babies”)

Also instructive was the reference to Cordy and Hayes as height options (in the F50)

Hayes having a set back and Cordy a day short on concussion protocols

And to add to that was the instructive reference to Sinclair in the midfield - but weakening the run from defence

A question is, does a return by Coffield allow Sinclair to the midfield?

Marshall rucks because of his height - he is actually one of our premier utility players able to impact almost everywhere

Playing as a ruckman gives him the ground to play on

When recruited he was playing as a KPP at both ends of the ground

It will be interesting to see the structural changes v Hawthorn (so Cordy negating Sicily?)

Some of the kids at Sandringham showed a bit including the talls, Heath, Adams and Keeler which is a good sign - but then came the rain negating them as the game turned to a rolling pack chasing territory

[Killa]

It was instructive that the Coach referred to Membrey and King - then referencing the players taking responsibility (so “babies”)

Also instructive was the reference to Cordy and Hayes as height options (in the F50)

Hayes having a set back and Cordy a day short on concussion protocols

And to add to that was the instructive reference to Sinclair in the midfield - but weakening the run from defence

A question is, does a return by Coffield allow Sinclair to the midfield?

Marshall rucks because of his height - he is actually one of our premier utility players able to impact almost everywhere

Playing as a ruckman gives him the ground to play on

When recruited he was playing as a KPP at both ends of the ground

It will be interesting to see the structural changes v Hawthorn (so Cordy negating Sicily?)

Some of the kids at Sandringham showed a bit including the talls, Heath, Adams and Keeler which is a good sign - but then came the rain negating them as the game turned to a rolling pack chasing territory

[SaintPav]

We won on the back of a miracle goal outside 50 by the sometimes maligned Caminiti who marked strongly from the back, then powered through two in close attendance, a very messy shinned goal from Higgins that defied the defender's hand and the normal physics of a bouncing oval ball, the early last quarter goal from Marshall and a two grab intercept from Steele lying on his back. What are the odds on all that.

You know we kicked 1.12 from late in the first to early in the last quarter. And that doesn't count the out on the fulls and shots from inside 50 that didn't make the distance.
We were the better team and deserved to win.

While other teams have been nailing their chances which makes it even worse.

This team needs a lot of work:

Personnel including both players and coaches
Skills
Transition
Set ups, particularly at stoppages and in the forward half
Game plan

[Vortex]

We won on the back of a miracle goal outside 50 by the sometimes maligned Caminiti who marked strongly from the back, then powered through two in close attendance, a very messy shinned goal from Higgins that defied the defender's hand and the normal physics of a bouncing oval ball, the early last quarter goal from Marshall and a two grab intercept from Steele lying on his back. What are the odds on all that.

You know we kicked 1.12 from late in the first to early in the last quarter. And that doesn't count the out on the fulls and shots from inside 50 that didn't make the distance.
We were the better team and deserved to win.

While other teams have been nailing their chances which makes it even worse.

This team needs a lot of work:

Personnel including both players and coaches
Skills
Transition
Set ups, particularly at stoppages and in the forward half
Game plan

The game plan is what is troubling behind the biggest issue of list quality.

I can't be too critical of Ross right at the moment because of the list issues and as such he might be restricted to being anchored to his defensive comfort blanket to stop a complete implosion.

the frustrating part is it could take him a few years to get the list he needs to start to show if he is capable of introducing some attacking flare.

But right at the moment the game plan sucks and is a bottom 4 material, just like the list.

[nobhead]

We won on the back of a miracle goal outside 50 by the sometimes maligned Caminiti who marked strongly from the back, then powered through two in close attendance, a very messy shinned goal from Higgins that defied the defender's hand and the normal physics of a bouncing oval ball, the early last quarter goal from Marshall and a two grab intercept from Steele lying on his back. What are the odds on all that.

You know we kicked 1.12 from late in the first to early in the last quarter. And that doesn't count the out on the fulls and shots from inside 50 that didn't make the distance.
We were the better team and deserved to win.

While other teams have been nailing their chances which makes it even worse.

This team needs a lot of work:

Personnel including both players and coaches
Skills
Transition
Set ups, particularly at stoppages and in the forward half
Game plan

The game plan is what is troubling behind the biggest issue of list quality.

I can't be too critical of Ross right at the moment because of the list issues and as such he might be restricted to being anchored to his defensive comfort blanket to stop a complete implosion.

the frustrating part is it could take him a few years to get the list he needs to start to show if he is capable of introducing some attacking flare.

But right at the moment the game plan sucks and is a bottom 4 material, just like the list.

Can't get my head around the mindset of not having a bigbodied target up fwd ie heath or campbell especially in the absence of king or membrey,and to top it off then play three small crumbing fwds in butler,gresham and higgins ,when there isn't any crumbs cause your getting outmarked in your fwd half.and then get scored against in transition cause your players are out of position or to screwed from constantly having to sprint back defensively to help out their defence.

[B.M]

Marshall
Ordinary C Grade forward

Gun A Grade Ruckman

I know where I’d play Marshall!

[Teflon]

We won on the back of a miracle goal outside 50 by the sometimes maligned Caminiti who marked strongly from the back, then powered through two in close attendance, a very messy shinned goal from Higgins that defied the defender's hand and the normal physics of a bouncing oval ball, the early last quarter goal from Marshall and a two grab intercept from Steele lying on his back. What are the odds on all that.

You know we kicked 1.12 from late in the first to early in the last quarter. And that doesn't count the out on the fulls and shots from inside 50 that didn't make the distance.
We were the better team and deserved to win.

While other teams have been nailing their chances which makes it even worse.

This team needs a lot of work:

Personnel including both players and coaches
Skills
Transition
Set ups, particularly at stoppages and in the forward half
Game plan

The game plan is what is troubling behind the biggest issue of list quality.

I can't be too critical of Ross right at the moment because of the list issues and as such he might be restricted to being anchored to his defensive comfort blanket to stop a complete implosion.

the frustrating part is it could take him a few years to get the list he needs to start to show if he is capable of introducing some attacking flare.

But right at the moment the game plan sucks and is a bottom 4 material, just like the list.

Can't get my head around the mindset of not having a bigbodied target up fwd ie heath or campbell especially in the absence of king or membrey,and to top it off then play three small crumbing fwds in butler,gresham and higgins ,when there isn't any crumbs cause your getting outmarked in your fwd half.and then get scored against in transition cause your players are out of position or to screwed from constantly having to sprint back defensively to help out their defence.

Correct
It’s not game plan - that’s fine
It’s not being executed as the captain acknowledged post game - they’re not playing as they would like
That’s largely personnel driven
Nothing to do with game plan
It looked fine when we played closer to it rds 1-6
It looked fine when we got close to how we want to play in the last (again as captain said)
Game plan issue talk us nonsense

[Teflon]

We won on the back of a miracle goal outside 50 by the sometimes maligned Caminiti who marked strongly from the back, then powered through two in close attendance, a very messy shinned goal from Higgins that defied the defender's hand and the normal physics of a bouncing oval ball, the early last quarter goal from Marshall and a two grab intercept from Steele lying on his back. What are the odds on all that.

You know we kicked 1.12 from late in the first to early in the last quarter. And that doesn't count the out on the fulls and shots from inside 50 that didn't make the distance.
We were the better team and deserved to win.

While other teams have been nailing their chances which makes it even worse.

This team needs a lot of work:

Personnel including both players and coaches
Skills
Transition
Set ups, particularly at stoppages and in the forward half
Game plan

The game plan is what is troubling behind the biggest issue of list quality.

I can't be too critical of Ross right at the moment because of the list issues and as such he might be restricted to being anchored to his defensive comfort blanket to stop a complete implosion.

the frustrating part is it could take him a few years to get the list he needs to start to show if he is capable of introducing some attacking flare.

But right at the moment the game plan sucks and is a bottom 4 material, just like the list.

Can't get my head around the mindset of not having a bigbodied target up fwd ie heath or campbell especially in the absence of king or membrey,and to top it off then play three small crumbing fwds in butler,gresham and higgins ,when there isn't any crumbs cause your getting outmarked in your fwd half.and then get scored against in transition cause your players are out of position or to screwed from constantly having to sprint back defensively to help out their defence.

Correct
It’s not game plan - that’s fine
It’s not being executed as the captain acknowledged post game - they’re not playing as they would like
That’s largely personnel driven
Nothing to do with game plan
It looked fine when we played closer to it rds 1-6
It looked fine when we got close to how we want to play in the last (again as captain said)
Game plan issue talk us nonsense

[Teflon]

We won on the back of a miracle goal outside 50 by the sometimes maligned Caminiti who marked strongly from the back, then powered through two in close attendance, a very messy shinned goal from Higgins that defied the defender's hand and the normal physics of a bouncing oval ball, the early last quarter goal from Marshall and a two grab intercept from Steele lying on his back. What are the odds on all that.

You know we kicked 1.12 from late in the first to early in the last quarter. And that doesn't count the out on the fulls and shots from inside 50 that didn't make the distance.
We were the better team and deserved to win.

While other teams have been nailing their chances which makes it even worse.

This team needs a lot of work:

Personnel including both players and coaches
Skills
Transition
Set ups, particularly at stoppages and in the forward half
Game plan

The game plan is what is troubling behind the biggest issue of list quality.

I can't be too critical of Ross right at the moment because of the list issues and as such he might be restricted to being anchored to his defensive comfort blanket to stop a complete implosion.

the frustrating part is it could take him a few years to get the list he needs to start to show if he is capable of introducing some attacking flare.

But right at the moment the game plan sucks and is a bottom 4 material, just like the list.

Can't get my head around the mindset of not having a bigbodied target up fwd ie heath or campbell especially in the absence of king or membrey,and to top it off then play three small crumbing fwds in butler,gresham and higgins ,when there isn't any crumbs cause your getting outmarked in your fwd half.and then get scored against in transition cause your players are out of position or to screwed from constantly having to sprint back defensively to help out their defence.

Correct
It’s not game plan - that’s fine
It’s not being executed as the captain acknowledged post game - they’re not playing as they would like
That’s largely personnel driven
Nothing to do with game plan
It looked fine when we played closer to it rds 1-6
It looked fine when we got close to how we want to play in the last (again as captain said)
Game plan issue talk us nonsense