Ross the boss

[Teflon]

I was shut down many times this year after pointing out that we blitzed the pre-bye rounds last year and fell to bits.

The response was "it's different this year, the way they're playing is sustainable, it's solid".

It isn't. It needs tweaks, and if we don't tweak we will be staring down the barrel of 10th place.

Again I don’t agree
We had no structure at all last year
We blitzed in quarters- King against Cats etc off a quarter here or there
What we have seen this year is far more discipline
I’d argue that gave last year under Ratten we would not have been 20 points in front with 10 to go
The proofs in the blowouts
I’m not arguing we are perfect but to suggest it’s just the same as last year is looking at W/L in isolation and ignoring the way we play now to then
We’ve got cattle issues for sure
But it’s Lyons system which has seen us play more than 1 quarter and be in a ganes bar 1
As he said in his presser - he coaches action
Players on field IF they don’t play or chat play to that action then he’ll have to turn em over
That tells me what we are seeing is not what’s being instructed
Maybe we are seeing guys but their ceiling who just can’t do it week in week out …that’s ok but find out now is my criticism

[Otiman]

Maybe that's the problem with the current system, it is one-paced and we don't have a low or a high gear.

We tried to slow the game down in Q4 against the Hawks and it backfired.

[Teflon]

I’d add 2 more points to the above:
Brett Ratten had 3 years body of work to assess him off
Richardson had 6 years (still can’t believe that)
Lyon 2.0 has had 10 games ?
Even if you’re just one of those supporters willing us to fail cause you don’t like him and want to say “I told you so” to be calling for game plan overhauls 10 ganes in is a tad premature
I’m not defending Lyon - I’ll be going hard if we don’t see sone midfield changes but I am confident we have the coach
I’m less confident on list and if you look at my posts constantly I’ve said before we need (more than bottom half 8 finishes) to drink deeper from the draft well
As good as sone of our kids are imho we need 2-3 more Pous to rocket into contention

[Teflon]

Maybe that's the problem with the current system, it is one-paced and we don't have a low or a high gear.

We tried to slow the game down in Q4 against the Hawks and it backfired.

That is 1 mystery I’m not sure about…
What happened to our ability to go fast ???
First few rounds we could do both …tempo and at speed
I’m not sure why that’s changed …
But that’s up to coaching group to sort
What is odd….the more senior players we got back…the more stagnant we looked….
And I still want to see a far far better entry into forward 50 strategy not bomb to King

[Saintmike65]

Reality is we have holes in our list.
Our midfield is pedestrian, Rohan needs help, upgrade is needed on Howard..too many ordinary drafts have hurt and need more like the past 2 years, plus trading in some quality!

[Life Long Saint]

Reality is we have holes in our list.
Our midfield is pedestrian, Rohan needs help, upgrade is needed on Howard..too many ordinary drafts have hurt and need more like the past 2 years, plus trading in some quality!

We do...But we do little to address them.
Gresham, despite his flawed disposal, injects pace into the middle. As does Jones. Sinclair isn't quick, but is rarely caught.
Owens will spend more time in the middle as he delvelops. I suspect Phillipou will also go into the centre more often.
But it lacks genuine quality at this point in time. It's not like we've not tried to address it. Imagine the difference De Goey would make to our team now!
We need to keep chasing midfielders every year. Maybe we're a little more attractive as an option than we have been over the past few years.

Marshall can get immediate help by adding Campbell to the team. Tommy is no Paddy Ryder, but he is too good to spending his time in the wrong jumper.

I don't have an issue with Howard. Given the amount of ball that enters our D50, I think our defenders do pretty well. We either need to reduce the amount of ball or diminish the quality of the entry. Something we were doing better earlier in the season.

[cwrcyn]

Saintmike65 wrote: ↑Mon 29 May 2023 8:26am
Reality is we have holes in our list.
Our midfield is pedestrian, Rohan needs help, upgrade is needed on Howard..too many ordinary drafts have hurt and need more like the past 2 years, plus trading in some quality!
We do...But we do little to address them.


Correct

[Teflon]

Reality is we have holes in our list.
Our midfield is pedestrian, Rohan needs help, upgrade is needed on Howard..too many ordinary drafts have hurt and need more like the past 2 years, plus trading in some quality!

Yeah I agree it’s why I think finals this year is a but fools gold
We’ll all feel good about ourselves
Get a hard draw next year
Come back to earth with thud
We aren’t going to get picks given to us Mike
c**k on block time - who you trading out???

[saynta]

Maybe that's the problem with the current system, it is one-paced and we don't have a low or a high gear.

We tried to slow the game down in Q4 against the Hawks and it backfired.

Outplayed and out coached by a relative novice FFS.

[samoht]

I’d add 2 more points to the above:
Brett Ratten had 3 years body of work to assess him off
Richardson had 6 years (still can’t believe that)
Lyon 2.0 has had 10 games ?

Lyon 2.0 had quite a few years at Freo (including 4 forgettable ones at the end).
What we have is Lyon 3.0 ... and hopefully an improved version.
(Although, Sicily and his coach might not be so sure).

We have hit a bump in the road, and will bounce back once everyone is available, match-fit and firing again - not because Lyon 3.0 is a better coach (than coach x, y or z or than he was in his previous versions).
Our team was 8-3 last year - and Owens has matured, has become a very good player this year, and I'm sure Windhager (who was ahead of Owens, last year) will come back in at some stage, soon.

We are a top 6 team, all going well - regardless of coach.
I'm sure Ratten would have benefitted from Owens 2.0 (the mature version, this year)... and he already had Windhager developing nicely.

[Teflon]

I’d add 2 more points to the above:
Brett Ratten had 3 years body of work to assess him off
Richardson had 6 years (still can’t believe that)
Lyon 2.0 has had 10 games ?

Lyon 2.0 had quite a few years at Freo (including 4 forgettable ones at the end).
What we have is Lyon 3.0 ... and hopefully an improved version.
(Although, Sicily and his coach might not be so sure).

We have hit a bump in the road, and will bounce back once everyone is available, match-fit and firing again - not because Lyon 3.0 is a better coach (than coach x, y or z or than he was in his previous versions).
Our team was 8-3 last year - and Owens has matured, has become a very good player this year, and I'm sure Windhager (who was ahead of Owens, last year) will come back in at some stage, soon.

We are a top 6 team, all going well - regardless of coach.

Results would tell you (despite new kids like Owens) last few years we are not top 6 that’s a fallacy and even, on way we are playing now, definitely not top 6
Our midfield has been sorely holding us back - regardless of coach
Our senior leaders in that midfield are not able to elevate themselves- when whips crack they falter
What we do have now is a system
What we do have now is defence and for the first 5-6 games this year a far far superior ability to transition the footy from D50 to F 50
Coaching has improved imho as Tony 74 alluded to - we are putting in place a culture of high performance
What we are now seeing is a core group of experienced players who can’t go with that high performance and it’s why I expect some senior changes come end of year
I just hope Lyon and co hold their nerve
Do what Mitchell at Hawks has done…realise these guys got you so far but it’s now time to bring in a new brigade
That’s why they gave Lyon 4 years - he should use them starting now

[samoht]

A system that results in Sicily getting 43 possessions - 10 more than he's ever achieved before?
It smacks of what Harbrow, Thomas, Shaw and O'Brien did to us under Lyon 1.0.

We need to limit rebound - especially against better, more skillful teams.

[B.M]

So we are in another rebuild?

[B.M]

If our coaching is better, shouldn’t our results be better?

We won 11 last season

I expect 12+ wins this season

[samoht]

Even if we win 13 or 14 ... does that make us better this year, or Lyon a better version of himself?
Each year is different.
Owens is a different player this year. Windhager is a different player this year (I'm sure he will bounce back stronger than last year - as he too, continues to mature and improve).

[Teflon]

A system that results in Sicily getting 43 possessions - 10 more than he's ever achieved before?
It smacks of what Harbrow, Thomas, Shaw and O'Brien did to us under Lyon 1.0.

We need to limit rebound - especially against better, more skillful teams.

Do you think Ross Lyon encouraged them to kick it to Sicily all day?
Do you really think that’s the system we’ve employed in the first 5-6 rounds?
Wow.

[Teflon]

If our coaching is better, shouldn’t our results be better?

We won 11 last season

I expect 12+ wins this season

Youve said previously we won’t win more than 11?
List or coach ? You need to make up your mind
You also need to tell us all your logic as to why we should’ve stuck with Brett Ratten in that case cause your clearly hoping Lyon and co fail
Odd behaviour from a so called supporter

[Teflon]

Even if we win 13 or 14 ... does that make us better this year, or Lyon a better version of himself?
Each year is different.
Owens is a different player this year. Windhager is a different player this year (I'm sure he will bounce back stronger than last year - as he too, continues to mature and improve).

Wow
So let’s get this right
IF we win 13-14 and make finals it’s all cause Owens and Windhager (whose hardly played) have made us better?
Despite the worst injury list of all clubs at start of the season and not having King for 10 weeks??
Just bizarre
If we win the GF would it prove Lyon can coach is that the evidently need?
Or are you also arguing we shoulda just stayed with Brett….Owens and Co would’ve improved anyways and elevated us???
Do share the logic here …intriguing

[Teflon]

So we are in another rebuild?

Do you think this list will win the GF?

[samoht]

Well, there's history and a definite pattern.
The better, more skillful teams and players can exploit an area of our game plan.
Harbrow, the combination of Thomas, Shaw and O'Brien sure did in the past - as did Sicily on the weekend.

Owens might help with his pressure when he returns ... but we definitely need to limit rebound, somehow, that's the perverse side of this game plan of Lyon's.

[Teflon]

Well, there's history and a definite pattern.
The better, more skillful teams and players can exploit an area of our game plan.
Harbrow, the combination of Thomas, Shaw and O'Brien sure did in the past - as did Sicily on the weekend.

Owens might help with his pressure when he returns ... but we need to limit rebound, somehow.

Owens played on Sicily last time and did the job
That said….he didn’t have Seb bombing away from outside 50 hitting Janes lace out…

[saynta]

Well, there's history and a definite pattern.
The better, more skillful teams and players can exploit an area of our game plan.
Harbrow, the combination of Thomas, Shaw and O'Brien sure did in the past - as did Sicily on the weekend.

Owens might help with his pressure when he returns ... but we definitely need to limit rebound, somehow, that's the perverse side of this game plan of Lyon's.

Talking about Sicily, why the f*** did we keep kicking the ball to him or to packs that he was in. f****** just dumb football imho.

You would have thought a coach with half a brain would have sent out a message to desist from such stupidity.

Maybe they did and our players are to dumb to change.

[Teflon]

Well, there's history and a definite pattern.
The better, more skillful teams and players can exploit an area of our game plan.
Harbrow, the combination of Thomas, Shaw and O'Brien sure did in the past - as did Sicily on the weekend.

Owens might help with his pressure when he returns ... but we definitely need to limit rebound, somehow, that's the perverse side of this game plan of Lyon's.

Talking about Sicily, why the f*** did we keep kicking the ball to him or to packs that he was in. f****** just dumb football imho.

You would have thought a coach with half a brain would have sent out a message to desist from such stupidity.

Maybe they did and our players are to dumb to change.

As Dixon said on Fox
The COACH can’t kick the ball for them you silly senile git
Either get with the program or take a Bex and have a lie down
FFS stupidity knows no bounds

[saynta]

Well, there's history and a definite pattern.
The better, more skillful teams and players can exploit an area of our game plan.
Harbrow, the combination of Thomas, Shaw and O'Brien sure did in the past - as did Sicily on the weekend.

Owens might help with his pressure when he returns ... but we definitely need to limit rebound, somehow, that's the perverse side of this game plan of Lyon's.

Talking about Sicily, why the f*** did we keep kicking the ball to him or to packs that he was in. f****** just dumb football imho.

You would have thought a coach with half a brain would have sent out a message to desist from such stupidity.

Maybe they did and our players are to dumb to change.

As Dixon said on Fox
The COACH can’t kick the ball for them you silly senile git
Either get with the program or take a Bex and have a lie down
FFS stupidity knows no bounds

Yep. You got that right. Been looking in a mirror have we,oh great wise one?

At least I am not fixated on a three times failed coach.

And for the record Dixon is a know nothing know all f***wit.

[B.M]

It’s funny

It used to be the coaches fault,

Now it’s the players fault???