Thomo on Saints TV Now - Live Stream

[shanegrambeau]

Always makes perfect sense GT

And says it as it is - not an apologist

The thing that made me sick was the Jack Riewoldt comments?!

Probably cost us a flag

Ouchhh!!!!

yep, that one hurt.

When he said,

'leave it to Bevo'

but at least he admits it.

And it was nice to hear him deal with the Ben King thing in a clean, no BS way. Basically, he said, 'I get it', when people argue against two talls, but he says in net terms, we'd be better off with Ben and as for the issue of 'two-talls-is-a-crowd' , he said, 'that's when coaching comes in'. Fair enough.

[ace]

That list batted deep too.

But it needed a ruckman.
Barry Brooks and Cain Ackland, list cloggers.

[SaintPav]

That list batted deep too.

But it needed a ruckman.
Barry Brooks and Cain Ackland, list cloggers.

Made a big play for Dean Cox and they nearly got him if it was not for Gardner doing a knee. Ironic.

Thomo or Chris Connolly for coach. That was the choice.

[CQ SAINT]

CQ

You can down play Daicos vs us all you want - from your pov

Fact is
He doesn’t dominate they don’t win

Ross knows that - which is why he gave him 5 votes

He was clearly best on ground - blind Freddy would know that!!!

What did he dominate other than uncontested possessions?

[Scollop]

GT mentioned his daughter Jordan is about to have a baby. Grant’s first grandchild

His daughter’s partner is a former Sainter. Played over 100 for us too

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Jack ... 2019.1.jpg

[Tommyj]

Loved the bloke if it wasn't for guerra bloody missing the ball from 2 metres out would have had another cup in the cabinet Brisbane were cooked

[Teflon]

04-05
Was GTs fault

09-10
Was the players fault???

What fkn logic is that???

04-05
Role players
Powell, Peckett, Thompson, Voss, Guerra, Knobel/Ackland

Dal, Clarke, Ball, Riewoldt, Kosi, Goddard, Joey, Fisher, Raph, Gwilt, Gram
None of whom were in their prime yet - good players yes
All 60 games or less

04-05 NO GRAND FINALS
09-10 BACK TO BACK GFs fall short by a kick
It ain’t that hard to see where execution on the biggest day let’s you down great oracle…

That star studded list of kids….can you imagine this current list with that blend of talent and top eve stars??
Your mate GT fluffed it big time
1 trick phoney pony

[Teflon]

Yorkeys

RL had that decision two weeks ago.

He chose A

GT would have started with Baker on him

The game would’ve been over at halftime under Thomas
What planet you from??
He had f k all idea of team defence
The rubbish that gets sprouted in hindsight is hilarious

[Teflon]

23 posts, 8 from Teflon.

It seems he doesn't like GT. Threads like this are like krill for a hungry whale, such in eveything and blow what you don't want out.

1 post from blowhard Trevor.
I know who the whale is.
Krill sandwich??

[Trev from the Bush]

23 posts, 8 from Teflon.

It seems he doesn't like GT. Threads like this are like krill for a hungry whale, such in eveything and blow what you don't want out.

1 post from blowhard Trevor.
I know who the whale is.
Krill sandwich??

Make that 9.

Centre of attention.

[D.B.Cooper]

04-05
Was GTs fault

09-10
Was the players fault???

What fkn logic is that???

04-05
Role players
Powell, Peckett, Thompson, Voss, Guerra, Knobel/Ackland

Dal, Clarke, Ball, Riewoldt, Kosi, Goddard, Joey, Fisher, Raph, Gwilt, Gram
None of whom were in their prime yet - good players yes
All 60 games or less

This is effectively perpetuating the myth that GT got a team of 19/20 YO into prelims.

In 04/05/06 only Dal, Ball, Rooey & Kosi were core players, the others did not become core and guns until the Lyon era.

You have conveniently left out the GT core group of senior players in the 03-06 era and forgotten that some of the younger players in this period were AA:

GUNS in the 03-06 period & AA in GT era
Gehrig - AA 2004 and 3 X Coleman medalist
Harvey - AA 2003 and still a gun in 04/05/06
Hayes - AA 2003, 2005 & B&F winner
Jones - AA 2004
Hamill - at his peak in the GT era
Hudgton - at his peak in the GT era
Ball - AA 2005 & B&F at his peak in the GT era
Reiwoldt - AA 2004, 2005 & B&F - elevated under RL but still dual AA under GT
Dal - AA 2005 (2 more AA in 13 year career)
Baker - B&F 2005
Milne - got better under RL but still a gun under GT who GT wanted out

GOOD PLAYERS
Kosi
Black
Thompson
Peckett - better than a role player, running attacking defender
Powell - hard as a cats head
Guerra - delivered some mighty H&S, went on the become a vg half back
Penny
Maguire - at his peak under GT before injury

Solid role players
Blake
Knobel
Ackland

Young guns playing decent footy under GT but elevated under RL
Goddard - good footy under GT, elite under RL
Fisher - break out in 06/07, gun under RL
Joey - breakout in 06/07 - gun under RL
Gram - Good player in 08-11 period

GT had an incredible age demographic and mix of talent:
Veterans
Harvey - AA 03
Jones - AA 04
Peckett
Thompson

Guns in their prime
Gehrig
Hamill
Hayes
Milne
Hudghton

Young guns already at AA level
Reiwoldt
Ball
DalSanto

Up and coming young guns playing good footy
Joey
Goddard
X Clarke
Fisher
Maguire

Good solid players
Penny
Powell
Guerra
Kosi
Black

This myth of they weren't ready yet, the core were all young is BS.
The RL core of Goddard, Fisher, Joey were young in the GT era, but they were not the core of the GT era.

FWIW I think GT was fantastic and bringing the group together and giving confidence to the young guys and building belief, but I don't think he had the strategy, training standards or defensive game to win a flag. Just my opinion.

His lack of professionalism in tying personal loans and dealings with Butters who was a total loose cannon was costly.
The way GT was employed was farcical as was the way he left.

Given the list profile and talent available in 05/06 particularly we massively under achieved.

[The Fireman]

dems were the days

[D.B.Cooper]

dems were the days

The 10 straight wins were as exciting as any period I have had following the Saints.
Even 09.

[The Fireman]

dems were the days

The 10 straight wins were as exciting as any period I have had following the Saints.
Even 09.

an enjoyable time albeit no chocolates

[samoht]

Luck with injuries is the common denominator, why we've fallen short at the critical stage
It's why the Demons won the GF one year and didn't make it the next ... with the same coach.

Talking up or disparagiing coaches while downplaying or overlooking key factors/reasons is getting a little tiring.

We should be bigger than this. If only for the sake of accuracy.

[D.B.Cooper]

Luck with injuries is the common denominator, why we've fallen short at the critical stage
It's why the Demons won the GF one year and didn't make it the next ... with the same coach.

Talking up or disparagiing coaches while downplaying or overlooking key factors/reasons is getting a little tiring.

We should be bigger than this. If only for the sake of accuracy.

Luck with injuries?

Good point and interesting topic.

Impact injuries is part of the game and luck of the draw.
A plague of soft tissues is often management and preparation & training issues.

What major injuries cost us in 04/05/06?

04 - ?
05 - Hamill, Kossie, Clarke
06 - Hamill, Hayes, Kossie

All clubs lose key players.
Look at the first 5 rounds this season.

[samoht]

Last 4 years at Freo ... Lyon was flogging a dead horse.
No amount of luck would have helped them.

We, on the other hand are alive and kicking - a team full of runners ... we just need that elusive bit of luck now at the critical finals stage, and we could go all the way.

I think Hamill missed in 2004, and Goddard was injured in the first quarter, and Kosi was carrying an injury.
Hamill was built for the finals.

[skeptic]

This is effectively perpetuating the myth that GT got a team of 19/20 YO into prelims.

100% agree DB. And excellent post.

The thing that has always bothered me about this is when comparing the 04-06 team with the 09-11, ppl do the same thing with the latter team.

There’s the myth that RL inherited a rag tag bunch of no hope losery players and turned them into a super star outfit miracle near premiership team.

He inherited a team that had the following players all battle hardened and experienced essentially at their peak

Riewoldt, Hayes, Goddard, Milne, Fisher, Dal Santo, Montagna, Kosi, Ball, Gram, Schneider, Jones and Baker to name a few

Other players on that list at various times: Harvey was there for 2 years, Clarke x2, Dawson, Hudghton, Ray, Gardiner and King etc + Lovett was there for a cup of coffee… a screw up which is a management fault or a bad investment that the coaching and management team have to wear.

If you accept the argument that players not at their peek worn down by injuries is a problem aka Ball, Kosi, Hudghton, Gardiner…
Then you have to accept that as an argument for GT too - Hamil, Penny, Brooks

And if you dismiss the argument that the youthful core group of young guns was already playing and their being much better 5 years later doesn’t count…
Well for RL add McEvoy, Lynch, Armitage, Steven, Geary and Dempster on to the list of players that he had at his disposal that he didn’t get the best out of, all of which flourished later

I’ve just never liked the excuses in one direction and not the other.

The RL team over 09-11 was an absolute power house list that should have won a flag too and IMO was a far more balanced and depth full list. Personally… I still reckon it’s a better list and would curb stomp GT’s team.

And for the reckon… absolutely no doubt that RTB is the better coach

[samoht]

You are playing against top opposition in finals ... you need your key players to be fit and available (and for the opposition's to be unavailable or limping into the game).
Demons are a case in point.

[samoht]

Repeat post ...

[Scollop]

I take my hat off to Ross Lyon for his professionalism and his competitive spirit.

We are lucky to have version 2 of RTB coaching the group and being a strong leader

I think he is doing a fantastic job at St Kilda at the moment.

The momentum that will be gained from having a great start to 2023 can not be overstated and is probably going to pay huge dividends to the team in the next few years and to the financial health of our football club

Even acknowledging all of this, I still think that GT has bigger balls than Ross

[D.B.Cooper]

Last 4 years at Freo ... Lyon was flogging a dead horse.
No amount of luck would have helped them.

We, on the other hand are alive and kicking - a team full of runners ... we just need that elusive bit of luck now at the critical finals stage, and we could go all the way.

I think Hamill missed in 2004, and Goddard was injured in the first quarter, and Kosi was carrying an injury.
Hamill was built for the finals.

Hamill was a huge loss.

Just look at the Brisbane game in 05 or 06? when Roo did his shoulder and was hit by Scott & Michael.
The one who took them on physically was Hamill.

He was a great leader to have around young developing stars like Reiwoldt, Kois, Dal, Goddard etc.
A good footballer, but a very tough and combative player and leader.

The old saying of he made them walk taller....

[samoht]

Lyon has the right team to go with his game plan. This must not be overlooked.
This probably wasn't the case in his final 4 years at Freo (hence the 30% w/l??).
Did they have as many runners back then (specifically endurance runners with leg speed) and was their defence as reliable as ours, I'm wondering?

One of the first things that Lyon noticed and mentioned when he arrived (and that he was obviously excited about) was that we were a "running team" (referring to our leg speed and abundance of endurance runners, I presume).

He needed the right team to go along with his game plan. And he found the right fit.

My thesis is his game plan (which is working brilliantly for us, right now) would not work everywhere and at all times.

[D.B.Cooper]

Lyon has the right team to go with his game plan. This must not be overlooked.
This probably wasn't the case in his final 4 years at Freo (hence the 30% w/l??).
Did they have as many runners back then (specifically endurance runners with leg speed) and was their defence as reliable as ours, I'm wondering?

One of the first things that Lyon noticed and mentioned when he arrived (and that he was obviously excited about) was that we were a "running team" (referring to our leg speed and abundance of endurance runners, I presume).

He needed the right team to go along with his game plan. And he found the right fit.

My thesis is his game plan would not work everywhere.

Or did he identify the list strength and tailor his game plan to suit?

[samoht]

D.B.Cooper ...

I think his game plan always relies on 2 way running. You need endurance runners for it to work?? He has endurance runners in spades at the moment.
Whatever game plan he had, it certainly didn't work in the last 4 years at Freo - you could ask why he didn't tailor one/devise on for them in his final 4 years there??