Vortex & St Byron posts moved from Owens thread

[saynta]

This thread has racked up 350 views in less than 4 hours. And you want to get rid of me St. Byron. Keep the site alive.

Read the room Vortex. I want you to stop being in the centre of conflict on here. When you just post about footy, it's fine.
I have double figures PMs urging me to ban you permanently, plus all the in thread expressions of support for the same.
I have zero expressions of support for your posting style or that you're being treated unfairly. If I just listened to what a large number of regular long time posters are suggesting, you would have been gone long ago.

It's come to this - discussing banning you publicly in a thread - because of your own behaviour. There's no way I would have this discussion with you via PM. Other mods have been down that rabbit hole before and you've driven them nuts. I've been reviewing PMs and posts from your time on here as Cairnsman. "An argumentative pain in the arse" as one Mod described you back in 2015. That's about 8 years ago. Nothing has changed. Same argumentativeness, same lack of willingness to take responsibility. Gaslighting par excellence.
Yep you're disagreeable as you yourself said. Very disagreeable. People are tired of it and there comes a point where I have to act if one poster is continually in the centre of conflict. That point is imminent.

Stop playing the victim. Stop starting spats. Stop making personal comments. Stop baiting and trolling. Stop reporting every perceived minor rule breach and attaching condescending and snide advice to the report. You're a vexatious litigant. Last chance.

Up to 379, clearly the traffic is attracted to something, you'd think a thread with Vortex in the subject title would sink away with hardly any views, my guess as to why it hasn't is the same reason Murdoch media sells well, it's why Niel Mitchell and Allan Jones do so well, don't be sucked in by the alleged double figure PMs St. Byron. Not sure if you spend much time over at BF but the moderation style over there seems to work well with the diverse range of posters and their input, not to mention a much, much larger and vibrant membership. The moderators seem to get the balance between moderating to the rules AND also the spirit of the board, they also use humour and light hearted banter to keep the the place on an even keel.

Some of what you just posted distorts reality especially the bit about reporting every perceived minor rule breach, in-fact that is pure BS. Your hatred for me goes back, back before you become moderator, a long way and I would suggest it is part of the problem. It also prevents you from understanding the PM gang, (as I am now calling them), who are all well represented in this thread, and who are also part of the problem.

For example, you taking on the moderating role would be like Stinger taking on the moderator role, the first thing Stinger would do is start a vindictive and sustained campaign against all the posters who he had ever had conflict with, there would then be the posters he hasn't had conflict who would coalesce around him and support his moves to exterminate the groups most hated posters.

This phenomenon has been going on since Simon took over the board back around 2012-2014, and sadly it drove so many great Saints people away from the board, many of which now make BF a great place. And we now have reduced this site down to a very, VERY small amount of posters that lack diversity in view and/or tolerance which is part of this much wider problem we have in the world with regards to two sided tribalism and cancel culture.

Maybe it's time for you to lay down the guns and stop your campaign against my personality and admit that you too could probably could go about things differently. I personally believe that most of my posts are footy related, probably 98%, and most of those do not breach the rules, I accept that my POVs are consistently contrarian and disagreeable, but these are personality traits and NOT breaches of the rules AND most certainly not grounds to cancel someone.

bulls*** rolled up as well......more bulls***.

I am reliably informed that your cairnsman persona over on big shitty is also skating on very thin ice....

[The Fireman]

StBryon is one of many who believe this place would be a better one without you and I’m sure you know that but here’s the thing , you thrive on being a pest
Do us all a favour
Everyone is over you clogging up threads with multi quoted posts, just so you can get the last word in with your babbling rubbish
You like the way big footy is being run? good stay there
If StBryon had a vendetta against you, he would’ve gotten rid of you ages ago, but has given you many chances
Again do everyone a favour

[Vortex]

StBryon is one of many who believe this place would be a better one without you and I’m sure you know that but here’s the thing , you thrive on being a pest
Do us all a favour
Everyone is over you clogging up threads with multi quoted posts, just so you can get the last word in with your babbling rubbish
You like the way big footy is being run? good stay there
If StBryon had a vendetta against you, he would’ve gotten rid of you ages ago, but has given you many chances
Again do everyone a favour

St. Byron knows that he can place a permanent ban on me if he likes but it doesn't prevent me from coming back under a different nic, it never has and as I have pointed out to St. Byron, the security of the phpBB software become unsupported years ago and is leakier than a sieve and can be circumvented by primary school children, fortunately I have an IT department that can help me obfuscate my IP address if required which is the easiest way and how I have done so in the past, but my IT gurus have told me there are many ways. So there's that.

The point I am trying to make is banning hasn't worked in the past as a moderating style, and it doesn't work, however there are other moderation styles that do work. I have been on this specific site since 2004 and and am as hard core Saints fan as you are likely to ever meet. I still pump much hard earned cash into the club. As pointed out above, St.Byron is moderating to a personality conflict and not the rules. So there's that.

For example, let's go back to my good friend Happyfeet and his post that started all of this latest brewhaha. I know a lot about ISO9001 3rd party accreditation and the requirements by Government, at all levels, especially at the federal level, specificly in defence and the RAN, I was involved in the pilot project by the RAN for a $200 million project back in the early 90s which was the first time the RAN introduced civilian commercial requirements for the procurement of defence materiel, meaning the design, manufacture and quality management would not be to MIL spec, hence the first introduction of an ISO9001 3rd part accredited system for a large defence contract. I was part a the team that prepared the design definition, specification, contract and tender docs...(hows that for dick swinging Stinger). The big problem Happyfeet made was he assumed he held exclusivity over this area of knowledge and came in real hot and this can be problematic when conversing on an anonymous social media platform. I knew he knew enough to be dangerous about ISO9001, but he was factually incorrect in some of his claims and thought he could bamboozle us with his knowledge. Then the biggest mistake St.Byron made was interjecting with his aggressive moderating style towards me, if he had of just let Happyfeet and myself to our own devices we would have talked it out and moved on pretty quickly I recon.

But alas here we today, many days later, in a thread that has generated more interest than the Kane Cornes thread, and you my Friend Firey have probably contributed to it the most.

[Vortex]

At the end of the day we are all Saints people, better we all get along and learn to live with our differences.

[SaintWiki]

Looks like a bit of a kick around the paddock from where I sit. Leading into the season when it really heats up,

[amusingname]

I am a long time viewer and very occasional poster on this forum and can confirm that the reason I don't post often is because of the exact type of grievances that are being discussed in this thread. Reasonable discussion being derailed by posters who know/think they are right on some point and refuse to either: a) let it go and move on, or b) agree to disagree and want everyone else tell them they are right.

This example of ISO9001 or whatever is a fine example, does anyone actually care that one person might have been wrong on something? even in the context of the thread it really has very little value to the discussion.

Vortex, your regular suggestion to people to use the Foe function that I saw you mention again, is your ideal scenario that anything that is said is only seen by those who you haven't had a disagreement with? The threat (which is what it is really) that if banned you can return anyway due to your IT department being happy to hide your IP address is equal parts sad and funny, as I would hope if you were constantly being banned or on the brink of it, maybe it would be a time for some self-reflection. We had some back and forth over covid vaccines where I could see you would not let something go or consider another point regardless of any explanation given, but at other times I have seen some insight in your posts about football. The rest of the noise is just irritating and gives people like myself even less motivation to be involved in posting.

[Dis Believer]

StBryon is one of many who believe this place would be a better one without you and I’m sure you know that but here’s the thing , you thrive on being a pest
Do us all a favour
Everyone is over you clogging up threads with multi quoted posts, just so you can get the last word in with your babbling rubbish
You like the way big footy is being run? good stay there
If StBryon had a vendetta against you, he would’ve gotten rid of you ages ago, but has given you many chances
Again do everyone a favour

St. Byron knows that he can place a permanent ban on me if he likes but it doesn't prevent me from coming back under a different nic, it never has and as I have pointed out to St. Byron, the security of the phpBB software become unsupported years ago and is leakier than a sieve and can be circumvented by primary school children, fortunately I have an IT department that can help me obfuscate my IP address if required which is the easiest way and how I have done so in the past, but my IT gurus have told me there are many ways. So there's that.

The point I am trying to make is banning hasn't worked in the past as a moderating style, and it doesn't work, however there are other moderation styles that do work. I have been on this specific site since 2004 and and am as hard core Saints fan as you are likely to ever meet. I still pump much hard earned cash into the club. As pointed out above, St.Byron is moderating to a personality conflict and not the rules. So there's that.

For example, let's go back to my good friend Happyfeet and his post that started all of this latest brewhaha. I know a lot about ISO9001 3rd party accreditation and the requirements by Government, at all levels, especially at the federal level, specificly in defence and the RAN, I was involved in the pilot project by the RAN for a $200 million project back in the early 90s which was the first time the RAN introduced civilian commercial requirements for the procurement of defence materiel, meaning the design, manufacture and quality management would not be to MIL spec, hence the first introduction of an ISO9001 3rd part accredited system for a large defence contract. I was part a the team that prepared the design definition, specification, contract and tender docs...(hows that for dick swinging Stinger). The big problem Happyfeet made was he assumed he held exclusivity over this area of knowledge and came in real hot and this can be problematic when conversing on an anonymous social media platform. I knew he knew enough to be dangerous about ISO9001, but he was factually incorrect in some of his claims and thought he could bamboozle us with his knowledge. Then the biggest mistake St.Byron made was interjecting with his aggressive moderating style towards me, if he had of just let Happyfeet and myself to our own devices we would have talked it out and moved on pretty quickly I recon.

But alas here we today, many days later, in a thread that has generated more interest than the Kane Cornes thread, and you my Friend Firey have probably contributed to it the most.

I have to regularly deal with the Defence and RAN procurement, design, quality and certification system, although for much larger cost projects, and I am very pleased that someone has the spine to put their hands up as being responsible for the abomination that plagues and burdens the supply chain.

Kudos to you........

[Sanctorum]

Moderating Saintsational is unquestionably a terribly difficult and awful job and I want to place on record that St Byron has, in my view at least, performed the role admirably with fairness and dignity under considerable duress.

As far as I'm concerned the quality and tone of discussions on this forum has improved a lot after BFUSA handed over moderation to St Byron and Kosifantutti a year ago.

Keeping topics on track by banning anyone who deliberately derails a discussion or makes inflamatory/hostile comments is the best way to maintain the high standards of debate most of us prefer.

[The Fireman]

At the end of the day we are all Saints people, better we all get along and learn to live with our differences.

Knowing no one wants you around here yet you threaten to return under another Nic? What does that say about you ?

perpetual pests find it hard to hide behind new nics as you have already experienced.

[The_Dud]

Interesting how someone in one breath can say how terrible this forum is compared to the much superior BF, and then in the next basically beg to be allowed to continue coming here.

Also I think 'disagreeing for the sake of disagreeing' is the actual definition of trolling...

[Vortex]

StBryon is one of many who believe this place would be a better one without you and I’m sure you know that but here’s the thing , you thrive on being a pest
Do us all a favour
Everyone is over you clogging up threads with multi quoted posts, just so you can get the last word in with your babbling rubbish
You like the way big footy is being run? good stay there
If StBryon had a vendetta against you, he would’ve gotten rid of you ages ago, but has given you many chances
Again do everyone a favour

St. Byron knows that he can place a permanent ban on me if he likes but it doesn't prevent me from coming back under a different nic, it never has and as I have pointed out to St. Byron, the security of the phpBB software become unsupported years ago and is leakier than a sieve and can be circumvented by primary school children, fortunately I have an IT department that can help me obfuscate my IP address if required which is the easiest way and how I have done so in the past, but my IT gurus have told me there are many ways. So there's that.

The point I am trying to make is banning hasn't worked in the past as a moderating style, and it doesn't work, however there are other moderation styles that do work. I have been on this specific site since 2004 and and am as hard core Saints fan as you are likely to ever meet. I still pump much hard earned cash into the club. As pointed out above, St.Byron is moderating to a personality conflict and not the rules. So there's that.

For example, let's go back to my good friend Happyfeet and his post that started all of this latest brewhaha. I know a lot about ISO9001 3rd party accreditation and the requirements by Government, at all levels, especially at the federal level, specificly in defence and the RAN, I was involved in the pilot project by the RAN for a $200 million project back in the early 90s which was the first time the RAN introduced civilian commercial requirements for the procurement of defence materiel, meaning the design, manufacture and quality management would not be to MIL spec, hence the first introduction of an ISO9001 3rd part accredited system for a large defence contract. I was part a the team that prepared the design definition, specification, contract and tender docs...(hows that for dick swinging Stinger). The big problem Happyfeet made was he assumed he held exclusivity over this area of knowledge and came in real hot and this can be problematic when conversing on an anonymous social media platform. I knew he knew enough to be dangerous about ISO9001, but he was factually incorrect in some of his claims and thought he could bamboozle us with his knowledge. Then the biggest mistake St.Byron made was interjecting with his aggressive moderating style towards me, if he had of just let Happyfeet and myself to our own devices we would have talked it out and moved on pretty quickly I recon.

But alas here we today, many days later, in a thread that has generated more interest than the Kane Cornes thread, and you my Friend Firey have probably contributed to it the most.

I have to regularly deal with the Defence and RAN procurement, design, quality and certification system, although for much larger cost projects, and I am very pleased that someone has the spine to put their hands up as being responsible for the abomination that plagues and burdens the supply chain.

Kudos to you........

I put my hand up as you put it with great trepidation, in part because I have a strict policy of keeping my offline persona out of the arena, but also because I try to avoid being associated with abomination.

That specific project was an absolute nightmare, as I say it was a pilot project for the introduction of various new management systems, including the defence accredited CS squared system (if you are hard core defence you'll know what that means), anyway you'd expect teething problems. All the trouble began as soon as the "real" client, the Navy, was introduced to the ship for day one of trials, who had given their design brief a staggering 10 years prior, (yeah the procurement process moves real fast in defence doesn't it), to a team known as the "design authority" and who represented the Navy during that 10 year period. Essentially a bunch of technocrats from the lofty floor of a high rise in Canberra, many who had never spent a day at sea. Suffice to say the war escalated from there between 3 entities, the navy, the design authority and the prime contractor. The war lasted for the remainder of the commissioning phase and well into the FOS contract, (you will know that acronym), suffice to say the project made crap loads of money for us on the civilian side while the war waged. And as an extra kicker we also cleaned up when the invasion of Afghanistan started which is another whole interesting story on how lucrative defence contracting can be...that is if you can survive the game. That particular contract was tough in the trenches though though and a baptism of fire.

So yeah, know a little bit about government requirements from the other side of the fence, that's the opposite side to Happyfeets...AAAAND, hence my comment about this latest little scheme you need to have in place if you want to do business with government called the RAP system. For anyone interested in indigenous affairs and politics you can request a copy of our RAP from the club, it should actually be accessible on Saints.com.au

[Vortex]

572 views and 2 pages in 24 hours, it's the most popular thread we've had for the whole pre season, as the kids would say, we are trending.

[saynta]

StBryon is one of many who believe this place would be a better one without you and I’m sure you know that but here’s the thing , you thrive on being a pest
Do us all a favour
Everyone is over you clogging up threads with multi quoted posts, just so you can get the last word in with your babbling rubbish
You like the way big footy is being run? good stay there
If StBryon had a vendetta against you, he would’ve gotten rid of you ages ago, but has given you many chances
Again do everyone a favour

St. Byron knows that he can place a permanent ban on me if he likes but it doesn't prevent me from coming back under a different nic, it never has and as I have pointed out to St. Byron, the security of the phpBB software become unsupported years ago and is leakier than a sieve and can be circumvented by primary school children, fortunately I have an IT department that can help me obfuscate my IP address if required which is the easiest way and how I have done so in the past, but my IT gurus have told me there are many ways. So there's that.

The point I am trying to make is banning hasn't worked in the past as a moderating style, and it doesn't work, however there are other moderation styles that do work. I have been on this specific site since 2004 and and am as hard core Saints fan as you are likely to ever meet. I still pump much hard earned cash into the club. As pointed out above, St.Byron is moderating to a personality conflict and not the rules. So there's that.

For example, let's go back to my good friend Happyfeet and his post that started all of this latest brewhaha. I know a lot about ISO9001 3rd party accreditation and the requirements by Government, at all levels, especially at the federal level, specificly in defence and the RAN, I was involved in the pilot project by the RAN for a $200 million project back in the early 90s which was the first time the RAN introduced civilian commercial requirements for the procurement of defence materiel, meaning the design, manufacture and quality management would not be to MIL spec, hence the first introduction of an ISO9001 3rd part accredited system for a large defence contract. I was part a the team that prepared the design definition, specification, contract and tender docs...(hows that for dick swinging Stinger). The big problem Happyfeet made was he assumed he held exclusivity over this area of knowledge and came in real hot and this can be problematic when conversing on an anonymous social media platform. I knew he knew enough to be dangerous about ISO9001, but he was factually incorrect in some of his claims and thought he could bamboozle us with his knowledge. Then the biggest mistake St.Byron made was interjecting with his aggressive moderating style towards me, if he had of just let Happyfeet and myself to our own devices we would have talked it out and moved on pretty quickly I recon.

But alas here we today, many days later, in a thread that has generated more interest than the Kane Cornes thread, and you my Friend Firey have probably contributed to it the most.

Cairnsman, I personally don't give a rats about what you may or may not have done in the real world and I don't actually believe anything you post. I also don't believe that you support the saints or have given them a brass farthing.

You obviously don't get or don't care that your posting style pisses everyone off and that you have more than worn out your welcome on this site.

So do everyone a favour and stay over at big shitty which is your declared preferred site.

[CQ SAINT]

For the record, I dont have a problem with Vortex or his persona but also, I wouldn’t care if he left or stayed.

T.S Eliot summed it up very well.

The Rum Tum Tugger is a Curious Cat:
If you offer him pheasant he would rather have grouse.
If you put him in a house he would much prefer a flat,
If you put him in a flat then he'd rather have a house.
If you set him on a mouse then he only wants a rat,
If you set him on a rat then he'd rather chase a mouse.
Yes the Rum Tum Tugger is a Curious Cat -
And there isn't any call for me to shout it:
For he will do
As he do do
And there's no doing anything about it!

Just use the foe button or control your impulse to respond. That is my take on this.

I've skipped passed heaps of stuff on here. It's not that hard.

[The Fireman]

your just a softy CQ

[Devilhead]

There is contrarian and then there is contrarian for the sake of being a contrarian.

There is nothing wrong with voicing a less popular, opposing or radical viewpoint but when it becomes habitual and incessant across a large range of topics then dont be surprised when others start labelling you as an irritable, attention seeking d1ck.

Anyway carry on ....

[Yorkeys]

Explains how the subs and patrol boat procurements could be so stuffed. Can you imagine the typos in the specs and refusals to acknowledge.

[Trev from the Bush]

If you are counting the number of views, you are only on this forum to feed your own ego.

[Teflon]

As a long time reader and not frequent poster May I suggest move this thread to the General Forum and let Vort count his hits over there with the hard core down n outs.
FWIW I could see Vort in the Navy…
Let’s play footy
Oh ….and on Bigfooty Vort as Cairnsman is nowhere near as “contrarian”….he knows the boundary ….

[st.byron]

As a long time reader and not frequent poster May I suggest move this thread to the General Forum and let Vort count his hits over there with the hard core down n outs.
FWIW I could see Vort in the Navy…
Let’s play footy
Oh ….and on Bigfooty Vort as Cairnsman is nowhere near as “contrarian”….he knows the boundary ….

Will.move it but not yet. Range of input coming from multiple.posters.

[st.byron]

For example, let's go back to my good friend Happyfeet and his post that started all of this latest brewhaha. ......................The big problem Happyfeet made was he assumed he held exclusivity over this area of knowledge and came in real hot and this can be problematic when conversing on an anonymous social media platform. I knew he knew enough to be dangerous about ISO9001, but he was factually incorrect in some of his claims and thought he could bamboozle us with his knowledge. Then the biggest mistake St.Byron made was interjecting with his aggressive moderating style towards me, if he had of just let Happyfeet and myself to our own devices we would have talked it out and moved on pretty quickly I recon.

But alas here we today, many days later, in a thread that has generated more interest than the Kane Cornes thread, and you my Friend Firey have probably contributed to it the most.

Vortex, here is what actually happened :

In the "Cuz disappointed" thread, You stated that the ISO9001 accreditation process was virtue signalling.

Happy feet replied with,
"ISO9001 virtue signaling, no I don’t think so."

You responded with,
"you are so funny, coming out hot at any opportunity, yeah ok, obviously I didn't mean the 9001 certificate is virtue signalling, I meant it was similar to all the different certifications you need to do business with government. You'd know a bit about that though Mr Public Servant. probably explains a bit."

How is happy feet's post "coming out hot"? He stated that he doesn't think ISO9001 is virtue signalling. Pretty straight forward.
Please tell me how your comment about Mr.Public Servant is not intended as belittling and derogatory?

Happy feet responded with :

"You wrote it, not me..............If you have a problem with public servants, take it elsewhere, as you point out all the time this is about footy. But you stray from the topic, bait others like you did to me, then run squealing to the moderator claiming you have been wronged when you started the whole issue."

There's nothing in breach of the rules in this post. In fact it's startlingly accurate.

You reported happy feet's post and attached the following message to the report :

"Come on this is your doing. You made it clear with your post you will moderate based on my previous posting which really signalled to the board there were separate rules for me which really only created a bullying and pile on mentality. Please fix it by applying the rules without your agenda."

So......you took the thread off topic and you turned it into a personal attack......yet you're the one reporting posts and claiming your perceived abuse is my fault. You did EXACTLY what happy feet said. You strayed from the topic, turned it into a personal attack and then ran squealing to the moderator claiming you've been wronged, throwing in finger pointing at the moderator as well. You take zero responsibility for your behaviour. You even see fit to send me condescending philosophical messages attached to your reports, as though you're coming from a place of moral authority.

You also go into long winded blurbs about how you're being victimised, you're a solid footy oriented poster and if only the mod would stop being biased everything would be fine.

This is A grade gaslighting.

And this is EXACTLY the kind of behaviour that many people have had enough of. Just scroll through the thread and count them.
As amusingname so accurately summed it up, "at other times I have seen some insight in your posts about football. The rest of the noise is just irritating and gives people like myself even less motivation to be involved in posting."

This is the issue. You love to talk about how much better Big Footy is and people shifting over there. It's EXACTLY your kind of behaviour that drives people away. And it won't be tolerated any more.

As I have said already, last chance.

[The Fireman]

he has caused you enough probs StB free up some of your time.....piss him off.

Let BF put up with his divisive style

[Devilhead]

Time to move this sucker off grid or just lock it

[Vortex]

793 views already and for about about let's say 8 to 12 regulars to this site? aka the PM gang. Sheez talk about the savage online bullies, and not of the teenage variety.

Lets all just acknowledge we are all just a little bit creepy and this really isn't the real world we are bitchin about.

Thankfully R1 is just around the corner where the angry and irrational will have another rabbit to chase.

[Devilhead]

793 views already and for about about let's say 8 to 12 regulars to this site? aka the PM gang. Sheez talk about the savage online bullies, and not of the teenage variety.

Lets all just acknowledge we are all just a little bit creepy and this really isn't the real world we are bitchin about.

Thankfully R1 is just around the corner where the angry and irrational will have another rabbit to chase.

I am betting 750 of those views are probably you