Who needs to be pushed out for us to really take next step??

[saynta]

I said a sad thread, B M called it a horrendous, disrespectful thread while Scollop said and I quote "Topic thread is too negative in my opinion.."

For voicing my opinion on a terrible thread I got abused and told to "take a hike"

Glad to see others commenting on what really is a pretty ignorant thread from a football perspective.

One thing I am certain of is that Seb Ross is a top 5 player and won't be replaced unless his form drops off.

[Otiman]

On playing of kids.

You don't just play kids for the sake of it. However, you do need to give them a leg up. You need to consider both ability and potential.

A 200+ gamer who plays a full season of games will be solid but not improve, you know what you're going to get.

A 2 gamer who plays 11 games will have a massive ceiling to improve. Likewise a 40 gamer who plays a full season.

If the predicted trajectory of a 0-20 gamer will end up exceeding a 200 gamer by the end of the season, you play them.

This needs trust in the development coach to make the right calls.

[saynta]

On playing of kids.

You don't just play kids for the sake of it. However, you do need to give them a leg up. You need to consider both ability and potential.

A 200+ gamer who plays a full season of games will be solid but not improve, you know what you're going to get.

A 2 gamer who plays 11 games will have a massive ceiling to improve. Likewise a 40 gamer who plays a full season.

If the predicted trajectory of a 0-20 gamer will end up exceeding a 200 gamer by the end of the season, you play them.

A sensible post.

This needs trust in the development coach to make the right calls.

[Teflon]

Horrendous

Disrespectful thread

BTW
Serong and Brayshaw were Pick 2 and Pick 5 going into a rebuild team.

Are you suggesting we are a rebuild team?

Because our age profile does not.

Oh the feigned temerity of it all!!
Disbelief!! Gosh…
And here I was thinking you were BIG MART…lol
AFL tough game - players get pushed out every year
Drink a cup of cement and if you don’t like it?? Try start your own thread….you can answer as many of your own questions there as you like!
Oh and the Serong - Brayshaw and how Lyon developed them comment?? (was in reply to you saying he hasn’t developed players nonsense) that came from THEM so you might want to sit them down and lay down the law (very very gently so we don’t disrespect anyone..) according to BIG MART

[Teflon]

I said a sad thread, B M called it a horrendous, disrespectful thread while Scollop said and I quote "Topic thread is too negative in my opinion.."

For voicing my opinion on a terrible thread I got abused and told to "take a hike"

Glad to see others commenting on what really is a pretty ignorant thread from a football perspective.

One thing I am certain of is that Seb Ross is a top 5 player and won't be replaced unless his form drops off.

Hello it’s the SS committee of “we don’t like your thread Teffers so we’ll keep bleating until mods back us”
It’s kinda funny but sorta cowardly group think common here nowadays…
Again - don’t like it??? Take a hike and start your own
But you can’t cause you offer nothing except rolly eyes
Roll roll roll roll roll

[Teflon]

On playing of kids.

You don't just play kids for the sake of it. However, you do need to give them a leg up. You need to consider both ability and potential.

A 200+ gamer who plays a full season of games will be solid but not improve, you know what you're going to get.

A 2 gamer who plays 11 games will have a massive ceiling to improve. Likewise a 40 gamer who plays a full season.

If the predicted trajectory of a 0-20 gamer will end up exceeding a 200 gamer by the end of the season, you play them.

This needs trust in the development coach to make the right calls.

Thank you Ottiman I concur
And if the said 0-20 gamer with the trajectory that sees them becoming a longer term better option for the side is played …..the a more seasoned player gets pushed out.
That’s terribly nasty according to some, shameful and disrespectful but guess what…..it’s how it’s always been and will be.
So IF Windhager takes big steps this year as many suspect and starts to be a regular mid somethings gonna give
It won’t be Steele or Crouch IMO

[Teflon]

Horrendous

Disrespectful thread

BTW
Serong and Brayshaw were Pick 2 and Pick 5 going into a rebuild team.

Are you suggesting we are a rebuild team?

Because our age profile does not.

Aren't we a rebuild team.

Let's look at the facts.

In 2021 Bassett claimed we would be in premiership contention in 2022.

12 months later he completely cleans out the football department 3 months after he said Ratts was the man.

Bassett has said we have to go backwards to go forward.

All of this to me suggests Bassett and Lethers either fell asleep at the wheel or they are completely incompetent.

I get the feeling they are hoping we repeat the 2022 performance of Collingwood after changing coaches but really "hope" is all they have this side of R1.

If we do drop down the ladder and have a shocker year then Bassett will still look like a genius because he said we had to go backwards.

That then leaves only 3 years on Lyon's contract to do a full rebuild .

What's your gut feel BM, personally I think we can still be a middle of the ladder team if we have incredible luck with injury and if that happens then we are still in rebuild because Bassett bought Lyon in to improve us from the middle ladder postion.

Geezus Vort I agree
We are a NO MANS LAND team
Not good enough to win it
Good enough on our day to bob up and beat a top 4 side and maybe sneak into finals doing no real damage
That’s what we are and imo that means we absolutely have a partial rebuild needed to inject A grade talent in which they’ve finally realised they need to do via draft ??
What muppet thinks we are not doing any rebuilding and are ready to challenge?????
Why did they give Lyon 4 years??? Even Bassatt/Board NOW realise it….they stopped buying what Brett, Rath were selling …
Could not care less if we don’t make finals this year - it’s about seriously improving the side to be top 4/challenge
That will (close your eyes I’m about to say something really nasty….) some players will get pushed out!

[Vortex]

Bassatt/Board NOW realise it….they stopped buying what Brett, Rath were selling …

A bit unfair on Ratts and Rath there, if we are apportioning blame let's spread the love and heap most of the criticism on Lethlean, Ratts and Rath both were under the direct management of Lethers and escaped absolutely cleanly and without any scars, INFACT!, Lethers was promoted for his incompetence and was allowed to deflect all blame onto other, that's executive management 101 right there.

[Teflon]

Bassatt/Board NOW realise it….they stopped buying what Brett, Rath were selling …

A bit unfair on Ratts and Rath there, if we are apportioning blame let's spread the love and heap most of the criticism on Lethlean, Ratts and Rath both were under the direct management of Lethers and escaped absolutely cleanly and without any scars, INFACT!, Lethers was promoted for his incompetence and was allowed to deflect all blame onto other, that's executive management 101 right there.

I actually don’t disagree
Lethers has 9 lives
His only saving grace will be he “might” be better in a pure footy admin role abd not football Dept
Time will tell but he’s been blessed no doubt

[Vortex]

Bassatt/Board NOW realise it….they stopped buying what Brett, Rath were selling …

A bit unfair on Ratts and Rath there, if we are apportioning blame let's spread the love and heap most of the criticism on Lethlean, Ratts and Rath both were under the direct management of Lethers and escaped absolutely cleanly and without any scars, INFACT!, Lethers was promoted for his incompetence and was allowed to deflect all blame onto other, that's executive management 101 right there.

I actually don’t disagree
Lethers has 9 lives
His only saving grace will be he “might” be better in a pure footy admin role abd not football Dept
Time will tell but he’s been blessed no doubt

If Lyon wins a flag Lethers is the Rooster, if Lyon fails Lethers is a feather duster.

Only 2 paths the narrative can travel.

[B.M]

Ahh

There’s a new villain in town - Lethlean


Makes sense

[Teflon]

Ahh

There’s a new villain in town - Lethlean


Makes sense

Well Lyon didn’t back previous failed coach or back Hannerbury….he wasn’t here????
Of course Lethers ought to be accountable…
What a bizarre comment…new villain?? Who else is there ffs??

[Teflon]

Saw this on BF re “mid tier” players and think it sums up the point in this thread. We need to turn some mid tiers into top line players if we are going to go forwards and I agree with the assessment some have more scope to make that jump than others:

BF

Yeah true. I was being lazy with my writing. I meant the middle tier players who are genuinely GOP's and where there really isn't that much scope for improvement. Guys like Butler, Webster, Billings, Ross, Jones. All okay players, but nothing to get too excited over.
The other guys like Coffield, Clark, Howard, Paton, Higgins etc. Definitely have more scope.

[Saintmike65]

This is an interesting topic but you can look at it another way.
Players don’t necessarily have to be pushed out, merely used in other ways to allow younger players to get more opportunities.
For example, under Ratten our go to starting centre bounce set up was Steele, Crouch & Ross..as a collective there’s a lack of dynamic but throw in Windhager or Sinclair, use Ross off the bench, alternating Steele and Owens forward - mid, things look a bit better!
NWM looks terrific off half back in match sim, there’s a real focus getting the ball effectively out of our back half this pre season.
Membrey needs to be used closer to goal, forget about the BS of putting him behind the ball end of most quarters..good, fit teams need to score in red time.

[Vortex]

Saw this on BF re “mid tier” players and think it sums up the point in this thread. We need to turn some mid tiers into top line players if we are going to go forwards and I agree with the assessment some have more scope to make that jump than others:

BF

Yeah true. I was being lazy with my writing. I meant the middle tier players who are genuinely GOP's and where there really isn't that much scope for improvement. Guys like Butler, Webster, Billings, Ross, Jones. All okay players, but nothing to get too excited over.
The other guys like Coffield, Clark, Howard, Paton, Higgins etc. Definitely have more scope.

Why is Ross discriminating with the use of his magic wand, why can't he improve every player?

If you can say with certainty the magic won't work with Ross, Jones, Buttler and Webster but will DEFINITELY work with players like Coffield, Clark, Howard, Patton and Higgins.

It seems like the magic works in mysterious ways.

So when do the players who don't believe in magic get cut from the list, is it all in one clean out at the end of 2023? That's 5 AFL grade players who have to be replaced, has the new recruitment department got a magic wand too?

[Saintmike65]

Saw this on BF re “mid tier” players and think it sums up the point in this thread. We need to turn some mid tiers into top line players if we are going to go forwards and I agree with the assessment some have more scope to make that jump than others:

BF

Yeah true. I was being lazy with my writing. I meant the middle tier players who are genuinely GOP's and where there really isn't that much scope for improvement. Guys like Butler, Webster, Billings, Ross, Jones. All okay players, but nothing to get too excited over.
The other guys like Coffield, Clark, Howard, Paton, Higgins etc. Definitely have more scope.

Why is Ross discriminating with the use of his magic wand, why can't he improve every player?

If you can say with certainty the magic won't work with Ross, Jones, Buttler and Webster but will DEFINITELY work with players like Coffield, Clark, Howard, Patton and Higgins.

It seems like the magic works in mysterious ways.

So when do the players who don't believe in magic get cut from the list, is it all in one clean out at the end of 2023? That's 5 AFL grade players who have to be replaced, has the new recruitment department got a magic wand too?

Really good point, quality coaches can squeeze that little bit extra out of the more experienced players.
Marshall for example has been around a while now but we still view him as a potential A grader.
Howard’s another that you feel can get more out of himself with the right direction..Hill should play better footy under Ross because he knows he will be more accountable.

[Vortex]

Saw this on BF re “mid tier” players and think it sums up the point in this thread. We need to turn some mid tiers into top line players if we are going to go forwards and I agree with the assessment some have more scope to make that jump than others:

BF

Yeah true. I was being lazy with my writing. I meant the middle tier players who are genuinely GOP's and where there really isn't that much scope for improvement. Guys like Butler, Webster, Billings, Ross, Jones. All okay players, but nothing to get too excited over.
The other guys like Coffield, Clark, Howard, Paton, Higgins etc. Definitely have more scope.

Why is Ross discriminating with the use of his magic wand, why can't he improve every player?

If you can say with certainty the magic won't work with Ross, Jones, Buttler and Webster but will DEFINITELY work with players like Coffield, Clark, Howard, Patton and Higgins.

It seems like the magic works in mysterious ways.

So when do the players who don't believe in magic get cut from the list, is it all in one clean out at the end of 2023? That's 5 AFL grade players who have to be replaced, has the new recruitment department got a magic wand too?

Really good point, quality coaches can squeeze that little bit extra out of the more experienced players.
Marshall for example has been around a while now but we still view him as a potential A grader.
Howard’s another that you feel can get more out of himself with the right direction..Hill should play better footy under Ross because he knows he will be more accountable.

Only squeeze it out of those who want squeezing, why isn't he squeezing it out of a player like Clark, from what I'm hearing he could do with a bit squeezing, especially around the mid drift.

Cordy another, why is the magic not working with him? from the description BM gives, he's fat and slow and not trying?

It's why I joke about Lyons magic wand, if you listen to the fanboys, Lyon possesses some come kind of magic that no other coach has ever had in the history of the game, can turn water into wine and all of our players are going to be stars, except the ones Teffers says the magic doesn't work on...strange huh?

[Teflon]

Saw this on BF re “mid tier” players and think it sums up the point in this thread. We need to turn some mid tiers into top line players if we are going to go forwards and I agree with the assessment some have more scope to make that jump than others:

BF

Yeah true. I was being lazy with my writing. I meant the middle tier players who are genuinely GOP's and where there really isn't that much scope for improvement. Guys like Butler, Webster, Billings, Ross, Jones. All okay players, but nothing to get too excited over.
The other guys like Coffield, Clark, Howard, Paton, Higgins etc. Definitely have more scope.

Why is Ross discriminating with the use of his magic wand, why can't he improve every player?

If you can say with certainty the magic won't work with Ross, Jones, Buttler and Webster but will DEFINITELY work with players like Coffield, Clark, Howard, Patton and Higgins.

It seems like the magic works in mysterious ways.

So when do the players who don't believe in magic get cut from the list, is it all in one clean out at the end of 2023? That's 5 AFL grade players who have to be replaced, has the new recruitment department got a magic wand too?

Really good point, quality coaches can squeeze that little bit extra out of the more experienced players.
Marshall for example has been around a while now but we still view him as a potential A grader.
Howard’s another that you feel can get more out of himself with the right direction..Hill should play better footy under Ross because he knows he will be more accountable.

Only squeeze it out of those who want squeezing, why isn't he squeezing it out of a player like Clark, from what I'm hearing he could do with a bit squeezing, especially around the mid drift.

Cordy another, why is the magic not working with him? from the description BM gives, he's fat and slow and not trying?

It's why I joke about Lyons magic wand, if you listen to the fanboys, Lyon possesses some come kind of magic that no other coach has ever had in the history of the game, can turn water into wine and all of our players are going to be stars, except the ones Teffers says the magic doesn't work on...strange huh?

Where did I say the magic wouldn’t work on all players?
Show me the post???
I did say some have IMO higher ceilings and as that becomes proven others will be pushed out (we can also use players in different, bit roles, but facts of life are sone will get pushed out for us to go up - that’s fact).
The only ones obsessive over Lyon’s magic wand are Trolls or those naysayers keen to see him/v club fail
I suspect a little too much playing with their own wands and have gone blind ….
The rest of us true believers see clearly..
Lesson over for today - next week ?? “How to spot a SS troll attempting to derail threads….”
Lol

[Vortex]

Where did I say the magic wouldn’t work on all players?
Show me the post???

Umm, err, this thread title says a lot about your thoughts on the limits of RLs magic wand, why don't you want to believe the magic can work on every player?

[Teflon]

Where did I say the magic wouldn’t work on all players?
Show me the post???

Umm, err, this thread title says a lot about your thoughts on the limits of RLs magic wand, why don't you want to believe the magic can work on every player?

Ah….beautifully avoided answering the question…
Troll on !!!

[Vortex]

Where did I say the magic wouldn’t work on all players?
Show me the post???

Umm, err, this thread title says a lot about your thoughts on the limits of RLs magic wand, why don't you want to believe the magic can work on every player?

Ah….beautifully avoided answering the question…
Troll on !!!

Push players out for us to take next step?

What if it's not a case of pushing out proven AFL players, what if it's a case of finding more AFL capable players to enhance the proven performers to build your list depth and achieve a critical mass of premiership type players capable of winning the silverware, I'm thinking around 23 is a good number of premiership type players to take into a grand final.

At the moment I'd say we only have about 8 to 12 who show promise of being able to take the field in the last 2 weeks of a finals series and even then there are some question marks within that group so a fair bit discover over the next 4 years.

[Teflon]

Where did I say the magic wouldn’t work on all players?
Show me the post???

Umm, err, this thread title says a lot about your thoughts on the limits of RLs magic wand, why don't you want to believe the magic can work on every player?

Ah….beautifully avoided answering the question…
Troll on !!!

Push players out for us to take next step?

What if it's not a case of pushing out proven AFL players, what if it's a case of finding more AFL capable players to enhance the proven performers to build your list depth and achieve a critical mass of premiership type players capable of winning the silverware, I'm thinking around 23 is a good number of premiership type players to take into a grand final.

At the moment I'd say we only have about 8 to 12 who show promise of being able to take the field in the last 2 weeks of a finals series and even then there are some question marks within that group so a fair bit discover over the next 4 years.

So what happens after RTB waves his magic wand across all players but we still haven’t bridged your gap of 8-12?
Do you think some go?
That’s disgustingly disrespectful if you do..

[Yorkeys]

Three or four of the teams that finished above us?

[Teflon]

Three or four of the teams that finished above us?

Spot on Yorkey - it’s get the xx out of the way time ..
Ofcourse I mean no disrespect to any teams above us who who may inadvertently think I am suggesting that we will nastily push them aside….we will politely ask them to move out of our way..

I’m very pc nowadays!