Where do the AFL pundits have us for 2022?

[Sainternist]

I haven’t really paid much attention to mainstream AFL media over the off-season.

Just listened to the latest episode of Rohan Connolly’s Footyology podcast, with Robert Shaw as the new co-host, after Mark Fine has now pulled the pin on his media career to focus on a family business.

To my dismay, both RoCo and Shawy predicted we won’t be a top 8 team in 2022. Shawy said we’d finish 13th and RoCo said we could fall as low as bottom 4.

The idea of us finishing well outside the top 8 is something I find difficult to comprehend. Sure, I can understand the argument for us just missing finals, but the prediction of finishing lower than that came as a shock.

Are there any AFL pundits who are particularly bullish about us this season?

[st.byron]

Bottom line for me is our midfield still lacks quality. Some good players in there, but apart from Captain Jack no-one to get really excited about. Here's hoping the young brigade provide some elite quality in time. That lack of quality surely impacts on how people view us.
Also, in the two praccy games it still looked a lot like kick it to a pack at the top of the square is our primary F50 entry plan. If that is indeed the case, I don't think we can genuinely challenge.

[cwrcyn]

Whatever......

They get it wrong so often.


There are 15 teams that could stake a claim for the top 8. That's how even the competition is. Who will make the top 8? Most likely teams in that group that have the least amount of injuries combined with the greatest home ground advantage.

[Yorkeys]

Would have been a disaster if they said otherwise. These guys are always wrong.

[saynta]

Would have been a disaster if they said otherwise. These guys are always wrong.

[Vortex]

Bottom 4 awaits us with only a few injuries to key players.

6 to 8 is possible if we have luck with injuries.

Our list is that fragile. I think the list is mentally weak too which adds to the fragility. We still lack a critical mass of mongrel competitive beast players, ...aka on field leadership.


Having said that we hopefully are pleasantly surprised with some of the fringe and developing players finally taking the next step, thinking Byrnes, Bytel and Longy. If these 3 can finally deliver on potential then it will change the outlook dramatically. Byrnes is my pick for this year's bolter.

Gresham becoming A grade would also be incredibly helpful.

Crouch I think will be even better this year after having a year of settling in, I scratch my head as to why our fans don't rate him.

[saintsRrising]

Bottom line for me is our midfield still lacks quality. Some good players in there, but apart from Captain Jack no-one to get really excited about. Here's hoping the young brigade provide some elite quality in time. That lack of quality surely impacts on how people view us.
Also, in the two praccy games it still looked a lot like kick it to a pack at the top of the square is our primary F50 entry plan. If that is indeed the case, I don't think we can genuinely challenge.

Yes agree that how effective our midfield is, inclusive of our rucks, will be the main seminar on where we finish.

Our forward line looks pretty able and well balanced.

So too does our backline. We do perhaps lack one extra tall defender but we doo have an excellent group of tallish defenders to support Howard.

But in the midfield we lack. And without Jones it also consists of mainly slow kids.

So we need Gresh to come back from injury and have his best year yet. He is at least capable of this.

Losing Hunter is a body low though. And no Jones or Hunter early on when our first 5 games is our easiest 5 games is not good at all. More so if Dry misses more than one game at the start.

Bytel physically is ready to rise. So let hope he does.

Owens looks promising but is raw and young.

Ross is a steady player but presently he is back in our starting midfield set up. To be a contender that needs to change.

As a group. V We just do not seem to extract and move on the ball well enough. This needs to improve.

To have a great year, we need our midfield unit to have a good year. If all goes well we do have just enough suitable players if most are fit and are playing for their
own standard very well. If it is left mainly to Steele we will struggle.

Plus our midfield coach needs to get them working as a unit better. A good midfield can still go ok to a losing ruck. At present ours does not. IE Blues practice game.

[st.byron]

Yes sRr we're just waiting and needing for at least one and preferably more of our potential young mids to step up to A grade. Bytel, Gresh, Clark, Byrnes - guys who have started to find their feet - we need them to go on with it and develop into genuine quality mids. The potential is there, as it is with this year's draft crop who we probably have to wait a bit longer for.
Good in a way that the Ben King thing is no longer in play. Let's concentrate our resources on a high quality mid.

[skeptic]

Would be very good to see one (if not more) of Bytel, Byrnes or Connolly really step up and go from kid with potential to young star.

If Byrnes got there, that would be a huge step forward to addressing the concerns with have there

[spert]

I think most thought we would do ok in 2021 after a very good 2020, but 2021 was such as let down with non-competitive blowout losses, losing games we were expected to win and what looked like an issue with fitness of the playing group. Nobody really knows what we will do this season, but in general we have mostly the same senior playing group with a few newbies, and from here if we are going to do any good, it will be the game above the shoulders that will make the difference.

[shanegrambeau]

Loss to Geelong in 2020 was red flag for me- at apex of the cruise into the stratosphere..we saw the earth below us!

We might be like North (Under Brad Scott) . There or there-abouts, bolters, or duds …no idea.

But there have been plenty of stories like ours, have there not?

Rises up then crashes down, then comes back!

Pre-season gave us nothing to rave about.

Sharman and Highmore were my hopes, in December, ow they are fringe players.

Still rate Hill and Sincs

But we are talking about Battle and Long etc. I don’t get it.

Come on Saints…ten more days (or whatever) Come on

BTW I tried to buy our away guernsey from the online shop - not selling it..

[saynta]

The only rating I care about is my own. And I rate us as top 8, possibly as high as 5.

[Trev from the Bush]

Loss to Geelong in 2020 was red flag for me- at apex of the cruise into the stratosphere..we saw the earth below us!

We might be like North (Under Brad Scott) . There or there-abouts, bolters, or duds …no idea.

But there have been plenty of stories like ours, have there not?

Rises up then crashes down, then comes back!

Pre-season gave us nothing to rave about.

Sharman and Highmore were my hopes, in December, ow they are fringe players.

Still rate Hill and Sincs

But we are talking about Battle and Long etc. I don’t get it.

Come on Saints…ten more days (or whatever) Come on

BTW I tried to buy our away guernsey from the online shop - not selling it..

I actually watch all St Kilda games, at the ground whenever possible. If not I watch live on Fox Footy and later in the week watch my recorded replay. You should try it, you might then post something that has logic to it and save the shaking of the head and rolling of the eyes. Where does your conclusion that Highmore and Sharman are now fringe players come from? Or that our pre-season gave us nothing to rave about"?

Try watching a few games and try to rid yourself of your defeatist attitude. It's only 11 March mate!

[Otiman]

Flying under the radar, which is the best place to be.

Last year we were coming off finals and expectations were high, despite all the injuries.

[saynta]

Loss to Geelong in 2020 was red flag for me- at apex of the cruise into the stratosphere..we saw the earth below us!

We might be like North (Under Brad Scott) . There or there-abouts, bolters, or duds …no idea.

But there have been plenty of stories like ours, have there not?

Rises up then crashes down, then comes back!

Pre-season gave us nothing to rave about.

Sharman and Highmore were my hopes, in December, ow they are fringe players.

Still rate Hill and Sincs

But we are talking about Battle and Long etc. I don’t get it.

Come on Saints…ten more days (or whatever) Come on

BTW I tried to buy our away guernsey from the online shop - not selling it..

I actually watch all St Kilda games, at the ground whenever possible. If not I watch live on Fox Footy and later in the week watch my recorded replay. You should try it, you might then post something that has logic to it and save the shaking of the head and rolling of the eyes. Where does your conclusion that Highmore and Sharman are now fringe players come from? Or that our pre-season gave us nothing to rave about"?

Try watching a few games and try to rid yourself of your defeatist attitude. It's only 11 March mate!

[samuraisaint]

I honestly believe we will win twelve matches this season. When our injured players return after round 1 or 2 we have enough artillery to bother a lot of sides.

I think 2021 was hampered by our collective lack of fitness and conditioning and crucial injuries and players unavailable for key matches. Adelaide and the Eagles losses last year were the difference.

Of course this could happen to us again, but it will also happen to other sides.

Evergreen sides like the Cats, and Swans may drop off the pace, who knows? Other teams who have been good for a while like Port and Giants may not have the luck they've had over the past several seasons. Of course those predictions are pure sophistry, but those four teams are ones which I believe are on the slide, while Dogs, Dees, and Brions are the better teams for mine now.

It's not an exact science but some of the sides like Geelong, Port and Dogs who suffered huge finals losses last year might have a reaction to that. I see that the Cats offered the excuse of a virus for their poor result (publicly at least). I think that might be the wrong strategy.
I know this is about us not our opponents, but the reality is where our opponents finish will imapct where we finish.

I am going to back in our moneyball strategy as well as improvement from our 50 game + players and a focus on fitness to get us to 12 wins and a percentage of 100 plus. That's realistic.
On the face of it I like our new additions to the coaching panel and Ratts is now a very experienced campaigner not a rookie.
It will be important fo us to get 3 wins out of the first five and if we can do that we should have a good season.
I reckon we'll win a final too.

[shanegrambeau]

....
Pre-season gave us nothing to rave about.

Sharman and Highmore were my hopes, in December, ow they are fringe players.

..

I actually watch all St Kilda games.....You should try it, you might then post something that has logic to it .... Where does your conclusion that Highmore and Sharman are now fringe players come from? Or that our pre-season gave us nothing to rave about"?

....

ha.

yeah..whine..winge...

Well,

I watched the second praccy game and most of the first.

Sharman
1) Was very excited in December
2) read on this website that he wasn't making an impact at training
3) Didn't get much game time in AAMI games
4) Wood seems to have gone ahead
4) Conclusion..a) fallen off? , b) got ahead of himself, c) discipline? , d) he's that good that he needn't shine or prove himself

Highmore
1) Very happy and surprised and looking forward to him being a major and permanent fixture of the backline
2) Hardly played. Played for Sandy .
3) All this talk and hyperbole about Battle. Battle is the man, finally, CHB is assured for Battle. Battel is the boy..etc., etc.
4) Conclusion.. Highmore has slipped, and Battle - somehow - is now the premier Centre half back. Any disention and labelled a 'knocker' or 'negative'

Practise Games (and nothing to rave about)
1) Some notable highlights a) NWM being the no. 1 (what skill and poise..sure he got run done when Hill gave him a chance..nevermind..I see champ skills..a bit skinny still) , b) Hayes and Wood got a bit of action, c) Marshall sparkling, d) Gresh's golden skills..he's our lil Toby Greene..I hope.
BUT
2) Messy football. a) dysfunctional F50 entry, b) lacklustre midfield, c) Signs of complete system 'shut-down'..although , it is only practice and we don't want or expect super intensity, d) horrible injuries to Hunter Clark and Billings, e) no sign of Ryder and others..f) Hannebury doesn't rate a mention in the dissapoinment column anymore,
what's the point?
3) We lost teh first game and should have lost the second...Essendon's woeful kicking helped..as did Carlton's by the way. Battle's opponent had four shots at goal and missed them all.

So, I'm sticking to my guns. Nothing to write home about.
But some highlights
And a sense that Hignmore and Sharman - my great hopes from '21, have fallen off the radar a tad. Suddenly, Battle is promoted..why I do not know. But he'll have a greayt chance to prove me wrong against Collingwood..cos their forward line isn't good.
I am super-excited about gthe season, can't wait, I hope and think Owens etc., will go on to great things. NWM was my pick of them.

[Trev from the Bush]

Battle promoted, eh. In the best 22 if not injured any time. Highmore is a HBF if not covering for Battle. You read on THIS website Sharman wasn't making an impact at training. You conclude that both Highmore and Sharman have "fallen of the radar a tad".

I conclude you have gone the crow too early, especially if you swallow opinions posted on this forum as fact. I'll gladly take any preferential bookings for St Kilda's finals tickets off your hands if you have any. As Lance Corporal Jones was known to bellow uncontrollably "don't panic, don't panic!!!" I think the Saints might fix bayonets and ram the cold steel up a few of the more fancied teams this year.

[saynta]

Battle promoted, eh. In the best 22 if not injured any time. Highmore is a HBF if not covering for Battle. You read on THIS website Sharman wasn't making an impact at training. You conclude that both Highmore and Sharman have "fallen of the radar a tad".

I conclude you have gone the crow too early, especially if you swallow opinions posted on this forum as fact. I'll gladly take any preferential bookings for St Kilda's finals tickets off your hands if you have any. As Lance Corporal Jones was known to bellow uncontrollably "don't panic, don't panic!!!" I think the Saints might fix bayonets and ram the cold steel up a few of the more fancied teams this year.

[skeptic]

Bottom line for me is our midfield still lacks quality. Some good players in there, but apart from Captain Jack no-one to get really excited about. Here's hoping the young brigade provide some elite quality in time. That lack of quality surely impacts on how people view us.
Also, in the two praccy games it still looked a lot like kick it to a pack at the top of the square is our primary F50 entry plan. If that is indeed the case, I don't think we can genuinely challenge.

Geeez who called it early

[skeptic]

Would be very good to see one (if not more) of Bytel, Byrnes or Connolly really step up and go from kid with potential to young star.

If Byrnes got there, that would be a huge step forward to addressing the concerns with have there

Boy I could not agree with me more on this one and if there’s one indication of what I’m most disappointed about linked to our overall performance/development… it’s the fact that if those 3 listed players, only one had played at all and it’s been like 5 games

[Vortex]

I got it horribly wrong thinking Byrnes, Bytel and Long would go to next level. I suppose they were replaced with Windy, NWM and Owens but only as potential best 22 finals grade players at the start of next season. Time has proved we didn't have one player move up into that category from the fringe.

Gresh also let me down and didn't go up to A grade.

Crouch around career best form in the first half but the load of carrying most of the grunt work after Steele went out has bogged him down since.

I got this bit bang on though:

Our list is that fragile. I think the list is mentally weak too which adds to the fragility. We still lack a critical mass of mongrel competitive beast players, ...aka on field leadership.

And which was found out in game 1 against the Pies.

[Vortex]

Would be very good to see one (if not more) of Bytel, Byrnes or Connolly really step up and go from kid with potential to young star.

If Byrnes got there, that would be a huge step forward to addressing the concerns with have there

Boy I could not agree with me more on this one and if there’s one indication of what I’m most disappointed about linked to our overall performance/development… it’s the fact that if those 3 listed players, only one had played at all and it’s been like 5 games

Personally I think they are all a bust and none of them have taken their opportunity when it presented, especially Byrnes.
Won't be on the list too much longer would be my guess.

And before you get outraged, taking your opportunity is best illustrated by how Windy and NWM have burst into the scene.

[skeptic]

Would be very good to see one (if not more) of Bytel, Byrnes or Connolly really step up and go from kid with potential to young star.

If Byrnes got there, that would be a huge step forward to addressing the concerns with have there

Boy I could not agree with me more on this one and if there’s one indication of what I’m most disappointed about linked to our overall performance/development… it’s the fact that if those 3 listed players, only one had played at all and it’s been like 5 games

Personally I think they are all a bust and none of them have taken their opportunity when it presented, especially Byrnes.
Won't be on the list too much longer would be my guess.

And before you get outraged, taking your opportunity is best illustrated by how Windy and NWM have burst into the scene.

No outrage. We’re all entitled to our opinions

Owens debut was a stinker and NWM was a slow burn to but has gotten better the more he has played

I don’t know that I would say their VFL was particularly better than Connolly for example who was very good early on but faded in the middle but is doing better now

It’s been a tougher journey for Bytel who missed large periods with injury but has been amongst the best at Sandy on several occasions without reward and has seen Hanna’s go right passed him despite his inability to get through a game

Byrnes has been disappointing but he’s barely played 2 games in a row all season.

The fundamental disagreement btw us on this topic is that i don’t believe players can improve without opportunity and all of Owens, Windy, NWH have gotten chances to get better over time in the seniors this year.

As has Cooper for example, who also looked average when he was in and out

Personally… I think it’s a crappy approach to development and it’s easy to hide behind the whole they’re just not good enough line

[Vortex]

Would be very good to see one (if not more) of Bytel, Byrnes or Connolly really step up and go from kid with potential to young star.

If Byrnes got there, that would be a huge step forward to addressing the concerns with have there

Boy I could not agree with me more on this one and if there’s one indication of what I’m most disappointed about linked to our overall performance/development… it’s the fact that if those 3 listed players, only one had played at all and it’s been like 5 games

Personally I think they are all a bust and none of them have taken their opportunity when it presented, especially Byrnes.
Won't be on the list too much longer would be my guess.

And before you get outraged, taking your opportunity is best illustrated by how Windy and NWM have burst into the scene.

No outrage. We’re all entitled to our opinions

Owens debut was a stinker and NWM was a slow burn to but has gotten better the more he has played

I don’t know that I would say their VFL was particularly better than Connolly for example who was very good early on but faded in the middle but is doing better now

It’s been a tougher journey for Bytel who missed large periods with injury but has been amongst the best at Sandy on several occasions without reward and has seen Hanna’s go right passed him despite his inability to get through a game

Byrnes has been disappointing but he’s barely played 2 games in a row all season.

The fundamental disagreement btw us on this topic is that i don’t believe players can improve without opportunity and all of Owens, Windy, NWH have gotten chances to get better over time in the seniors this year.

As has Cooper for example, who also looked average when he was in and out

Personally… I think it’s a crappy approach to development and it’s easy to hide behind the whole they’re just not good enough line

I'm not sure they hide behind anything when it comes to looking after their assets, that doesn't make sense at all. You make it sound like they let pettiness get in the way.

It's OK to say the only way to develop a player is to give them a set block of games, but that sounds fairly amateurish and could be detrimental to a players development.

I recon the coaches would get a feel for a player as soon as they get the first look at AFL and I recon that happens almost in the first game or 3, then the development plan is individualised. Take Connolly for example, got his first game but it was clear he would need to go on a longer term plan. Windy though came in and it would have been clear he can go on a short plan, body type and skills AND confidence way better than Connolly. Byrnes I recon medium term plan.

And take Dunstan as another example. It was clear from his first few games he could go on the fast track plan but after 2 or 3 seasons it was becoming evident he couldn't elevate his game to be a top 4 finals player so career over. In 2 or 3 years we may learn Windy can't to the required level but he's probably going to play lots of AFL in that time and be allowed to develop at AFL level because he can.

So some have to develop at VFL some have what it takes to develop at AFL.

Sharman is a medium term, maybe long term development project.

Bytel is running out if time.

I think Byrnes is running out of time.

Connolly is way way off.