If time was a flat circle and we had the opportunity

[Rubyjo]

Who would you pick for the saints.
Josh Kennedy or Chris Judd.

[Devilhead]

If we picked Judd over Ball we likely would have had our 2nd & 3rd flags by now

But hey it didn't happen

[Trev from the Bush]

If we picked Judd over Ball we likely would have had our 2nd & 3rd flags by now

But hey it didn't happen

If Ball hadn't spent the last quarter growing moss on the bench in the 2009 GF we would have our 2nd by now.

The rest is just navel gazing.

[saynta]

Who would you pick for the saints.
Josh Kennedy or Chris Judd.

Kennedy, a decent footballer, a match winner and a top bloke v Judd a decent footballer, an occasional match winner and a pretty ordinary bloke.

So, guess.

But I am only watching from afar.

[Yorkeys]

I'd take Judd and make a deal with the devil; Judd for a kind bounce in 2010 GF mark 1.
Lot of soul for such a little favour. Comes with eye gouging, chicken winging and salary cap rorting, Satan, just let it sit up for Milney.

[B.M]

Butterfly effect

We pick Judd

We probably don’t end up with Goddard as we wouldn’t have finished 2nd last in 2002

And so on

Ball was a good selection (Judd a great one!)

Ball got injured, never the same

Imo
The strange selection was David Armitage over Jack Riewoldt

Armo - good player
Jack R - certain premiership in 09/10

[Banger9798]

Judd, even though I reckon he's a wanker....he'd be our (premiership) wanker

[Scollop]

Good thread. This is why I keep coming back to saintsational. Special mention to Yorkeys for the chuckle

[freely]

Butterfly effect

We pick Judd

We probably don’t end up with Goddard as we wouldn’t have finished 2nd last in 2002

And so on

Ball was a good selection (Judd a great one!)

Ball got injured, never the same

Imo
The strange selection was David Armitage over Jack Riewoldt

Armo - good player
Jack R - certain premiership in 09/10

Early days i always got the impression Jack was an embarrassment to Nick - all that emotion! I suspect that's why we didn't take him.

[B.M]

Jack will end up a 300+ game player
Triple Coleman medallist
Triple Premiership
800+ goals

Not sure that’s embarrassing?!

Btw - Nick loves Jack and visa versa

Nick CHF
Jack FF


It would have been something?!

Alas
JB though Jack was too short to be a KPP and too slow to play as a flanker - saw no future for him
Ridiculous

Even his u18 coach - Hamish Ogilvie said d Jack was a sure thing, just a natural forward!
Great leap, Great hands, Great kick

Also
His dad should have been a Sainter

A CHF/Ruckman big Chris Riewoldt completed a Form 4 to play at StK but for whatever reason never came over. Big Moose dominate Tasmanian football for 300 games and was a multiple premiership player for Clarence and is in the Tasmanian Hall of Fame. A nasty bloke on the field.

[Moods]

If you read Roo’s autobiography you can see that Roo loves his cousin, but it doesn’t appear they were
particularly close until their respective AFL careers. Remember Nick moved to QLD after his parents hit
a speed bump.

Having said that, I agree that if we had a two pronged attack with Nick and Jack, the 09/10 flags would definitely be ours. i always maintain that with Roo paired with GTrain or Kosi ( when he wasn't injured ) was when Nick played his best footy and hence when the Saints were
most dangerous

[saynta]

Carlton Judd - 145 games, 67 wins, 24.6 disposals average
West Coast Kennedy - 270 games, 704 goals, 146 wins

[older saint]

Carlton Judd - 145 games, 67 wins, 24.6 disposals average
West Coast Kennedy - 270 games, 704 goals, 146 wins

Add
Kennedy 1 Premiership
Judd 0
Judd 1 brownlow

As much as Carlton supporters wont admit it as they love Judd, and realistically he was the only thing they had to love for a long time, WC won the trade

[MC Gusto]

petracca

[MC Gusto]

agree - armo over jack roo was super strange. ball over judd was sound at the time, didnt come good but at the time Judd looked like the injury prone one.

[Life Long Saint]

agree - armo over jack roo was super strange. ball over judd was sound at the time, didnt come good but at the time Judd looked like the injury prone one.

I think the story was that JB thought he'd get both Ball and Judd as he expected Judd to slip to pick 5 because of his dodgy shoulders.
WCE surprised most and took him at pick 3.
It was a super draft
Fremantle took a local (Polak) at four and we took Xavier Clarke at five becuase I think we were surprised by WCE selecting Judd. I think most expected Sampi to go at 3.

We got Ball, Clarke, Dal Santo, McGuire, and Montagna with picks 2, 5, 13, 21, and 37.
The Cats got Bartel, Kelly, Charlie Gardiner, Stevie J, Ablett Jnr with picks 8, 17, 23, 24, and 40 (F/S).
When Ablett was drafted, he was not the star that he turned into. I recall he was pretty ordinary in his early years. A bit like Jobe Watson. Once he put in the work needed, there was no looking back.

But to answer the OP, you'd take a key forward over a midfielder almost every day of the week.
The best teams have many midfielders - even if individually, they're not the best, but you need class and quality key forwards to win games of football.
You build from the spine.
Carlton and Gold Coast tried to build around an on-baller and it didn't work.
But GWS built an army of quality on-ballers but had a good spine and made a Grand Final.

[Devilhead]

Ball, Xman & Maguire all cruelled by injury .... throw in Kosi, Penny and Hamill ..... there goes our 2nd 3rd & 4th Premierships

[saynta]

agree - armo over jack roo was super strange. ball over judd was sound at the time, didnt come good but at the time Judd looked like the injury prone one.

I think the story was that JB thought he'd get both Ball and Judd as he expected Judd to slip to pick 5 because of his dodgy shoulders.
WCE surprised most and took him at pick 3.
It was a super draft
Fremantle took a local (Polak) at four and we took Xavier Clarke at five becuase I think we were surprised by WCE selecting Judd. I think most expected Sampi to go at 3.

We got Ball, Clarke, Dal Santo, McGuire, and Montagna with picks 2, 5, 13, 21, and 37.
The Cats got Bartel, Kelly, Charlie Gardiner, Stevie J, Ablett Jnr with picks 8, 17, 23, 24, and 40 (F/S).
When Ablett was drafted, he was not the star that he turned into. I recall he was pretty ordinary in his early years. A bit like Jobe Watson. Once he put in the work needed, there was no looking back.

But to answer the OP, you'd take a key forward over a midfielder almost every day of the week.
The best teams have many midfielders - even if individually, they're not the best, but you need class and quality key forwards to win games of football.
You build from the spine.
Carlton and Gold Coast tried to build around an on-baller and it didn't work.
But GWS built an army of quality on-ballers but had a good spine and made a Grand Final.

You are correct from my memory

[saynta]

Ball, Xman & Maguire all cruelled by injury .... throw in Kosi, Penny and Hamill ..... there goes our 2nd 3rd & 4th Premierships

Yep.

[Mr Magic]

agree - armo over jack roo was super strange. ball over judd was sound at the time, didnt come good but at the time Judd looked like the injury prone one.

I think the story was that JB thought he'd get both Ball and Judd as he expected Judd to slip to pick 5 because of his dodgy shoulders.
WCE surprised most and took him at pick 3.
It was a super draft
Fremantle took a local (Polak) at four and we took Xavier Clarke at five becuase I think we were surprised by WCE selecting Judd. I think most expected Sampi to go at 3.

We got Ball, Clarke, Dal Santo, McGuire, and Montagna with picks 2, 5, 13, 21, and 37.
The Cats got Bartel, Kelly, Charlie Gardiner, Stevie J, Ablett Jnr with picks 8, 17, 23, 24, and 40 (F/S).
When Ablett was drafted, he was not the star that he turned into. I recall he was pretty ordinary in his early years. A bit like Jobe Watson. Once he put in the work needed, there was no looking back.

But to answer the OP, you'd take a key forward over a midfielder almost every day of the week.
The best teams have many midfielders - even if individually, they're not the best, but you need class and quality key forwards to win games of football.
You build from the spine.
Carlton and Gold Coast tried to build around an on-baller and it didn't work.
But GWS built an army of quality on-ballers but had a good spine and made a Grand Final.

You are correct from my memory

I heard JB tell the story - WCE bluffed us.
We wanted Ball & Judd
WCE proclaimed they had no interest in Judd because if his shoulder issues and would select Ball with their pick.
We took Ball at pick #2 and expected to get Judd at #5.
Apparently when WCE called out Judd's name at pick #3 they were looking at JB and smiling.

[B.M]

What does team winning percentage have to do with one player?

Judd continues at WCE and Kennedy at Carlton

The percentages would have remained similar

Both great players - Judd better - he was a superstar

It’s the old Lockett vs Dunstall vs Ablett argument

If we judge them by premierships and winning percentages Tony is comfortably 3rd

Which is not the case, actually makes him better imo!

Judd carried Carlton for 6 years on his shoulders!
The ones that were apparently fkd?!

[Banger9798]

I never understood why did Luke Penny retired so early, he was a gun FB

[B.M]

Hip was completely fkd

[WellardSaint]

Hip was completely fkd

I seem to recall him saying he had the legs of a pensioner. Couldn't walk down his back steps at home without pain.
Said it's no way to live, with a young family, etc

[B.M]

True

He was almost a cripple

One of the few things I wasn’t happy with GT about

He just stopped short of calling Penny soft when he retired at 24yo

He was in constant pain

I think he may have sued the club? Over medical??

Either way it was a messy exit