Small Forward

[B.M]

Often the first players we are critical of when they don’t dominate and I’m not sure everyone appreciates to difficulty of the role

Let me tell you, it’s a position that is extremely difficult to be consistent in

You must stay in structure and forward of the ball (can’t go kick chasing!)

You rarely have the ball directed at you, and have to find spillage or space where there is none

Think about it

It’s the only area of the ground where if your running forward the ground gets smaller and you run out of space!

Not only that, you are asked to defend running backs and provide forward pressure

Some days you get your lick of the ice cream, but most games you get few opportunities (and have to make the most of them) often it’s starvation corner

Even the great ones like Betts and Milne only averaged 2 goals and 10-12 possessions per game

On here, it’s like most think small forwards should get mid/HF numbers like 20 per game?!
And consistently nail 3 or 4 goals?!
Doesn’t often happen

If someone did, they’d be the best ever!

Dan Butler just kicked five

He might only kick 2 in the next 4 games - that’s the role

[meher baba]

Yep.

But you’re denying posters their ready scapegoats. Is that fair?

Next of all you’ll be suggesting that we should be judging players on the extent to which they fulfilled the role given to them by the coaching team rather than simply on one or two bad errors that the TV cameras happened to highlight.

And then we’d be having a sensible discussion about football rather than a succession of inane rants.

SS wouldn’t seem the same.

[Waltzing St Kilda]

Meh.

Small forwards are my favourite players. They get to zip around and kick opportunistio ngoals -- what's not to love?

Milne was the best we've seen at the Saints and, I would argue, the best anyone will ever see.

Perhaps Butler kicked five because he was closer to goal agaaints WCE? Certainly his goals in the last were Joe the Goose efforts.

Higgins goes all right without being Milne-standard.

I still reckon it's the natural psition of Gresham and if he were in Geelong colors that's prrobably where he'd be playing.

[damienc]

Often the first players we are critical of when they don’t dominate and I’m not sure everyone appreciates to difficulty of the role

Let me tell you, it’s a position that is extremely difficult to be consistent in

You must stay in structure and forward of the ball (can’t go kick chasing!)

You rarely have the ball directed at you, and have to find spillage or space where there is none

Think about it

It’s the only area of the ground where if your running forward the ground gets smaller and you run out of space!

Not only that, you are asked to defend running backs and provide forward pressure

Some days you get your lick of the ice cream, but most games you get few opportunities (and have to make the most of them) often it’s starvation corner

Even the great ones like Betts and Milne only averaged 2 goals and 10-12 possessions per game

On here, it’s like most think small forwards should get mid/HF numbers like 20 per game?!
And consistently nail 3 or 4 goals?!
Doesn’t often happen

If someone did, they’d be the best ever!

Dan Butler just kicked five

He might only kick 2 in the next 4 games - that’s the role

Thank you for your very sensible post. Agree.

[Banger9798]

Higgins played very well today, excellent instincts of wheen and where to push forward.
Butler was excellent all day.

[samoht]

The real test is finals pressure, against stronger teams and better defences.
Against bigger, stronger and faster opponents.

How do our smalls perform when the going gets tough?

Even Milne wilted and became a passenger when the going got tough and the stakes were high.

[saynta]

From the heraldsun.com.au

4. Saints smalls

Dan Butler and Jack Higgins epitomise the good and bad of St Kilda, which can be unfair on small forwards. But when they play well, the Saints certainly sizzle. They combined for seven of St Kilda’s 14 goals kicked in the wet in the west on Sunday, and the Saints kept their September aspirations intact. It was gritty by St Kilda led by Jack Steele and Brad Crouch who combined for 71 disposals and 19 clearances. Can you believe the Saints are above Richmond on the ladder with three games to play? Steele said in the post-match they had hard conversations after the loss to the Bulldogs 10 days earlier, and that was evident by the way Brett Ratten spoke to fans during the week. “The season is alive for us, so we’re happy,’’ Steele said. Yep, they’re alive, and maybe they’re on life support, but alive they are. It will mean not much if they lose to the Hawks this week.
Dan Butler kicked a career-high five goals against the Eagles.

[samoht]

I'd sooner have Owens and Windhager playing as "small" forwards if we ever get into the finals ... at least they can win their own ball, get themselves involved in general play and make their presence felt.

There's no place for specialist "finishers" in finals - only "go-getters."

[skeptic]

IMO the misconception is that small forwards are chastised for not kicking goals.

The issue is more about why they haven’t and what they do when opportunities are scarce.

Higgins gets criticised primarily because he misses too many highly gettable goals. Struggles to kick over 40m and at times, he lacks the composure to set others up when he should.

Butler has a tough deal as due to size, he sometimes gets freezed out.
Though he pressures well enough… kid needs to be fitter so that he can put work his opponent more.

[B.M]

Small forward is a specialist position

Rarely do Mids perform well in that role because their natural instinct is to ball hunt.

Small forwards find it tough in high pressure games, because you rely on players upfield to bring it in clean - harder with high pressure.

[Vortex]

Small forward is a specialist position

Rarely do Mids perform well in that role because their natural instinct is to ball hunt.

Small forwards find it tough in high pressure games, because you rely on players upfield to bring it in clean - harder with high pressure.

Is Small forward even a postion in the current era? the role has changed significantly since Milne played. The modern game has 6 forwards who must 2 way run from half back to the goals and hold defensive zones and running profiles. They don't just sit FAC at the feet of talls in F50.

Its the reason Higgins looks flogged in games, and is flatout kicking over a beer can when he gets a set shot. I thought he was going to sieze up and rust in the last he was that flogged and immobile.. I hope he's got improvement left in his fitness and endurance because he's struggling. I guess he's found that that's where he's got to improve.

[skeptic]

Small forward is a specialist position

Rarely do Mids perform well in that role because their natural instinct is to ball hunt.

Small forwards find it tough in high pressure games, because you rely on players upfield to bring it in clean - harder with high pressure.

I think this is old school thinking - having someone in the team with the role of miracle worker aka swoop on limited opportunities and consistently capitalise…
I think it’s a loser role and a loser mentality.

What is a modern forward pocket… IMO it’s essentially a midfielder that has deficiencies in their game that stops them from being able to be a permanent mid.

Said deficiencies usually relate to size and tank.

IMO there’s a few realities of being a forward pocket now… or at least there should be

1. Running, chasing, harassing, tackling, guarding space, blocking etc is not an optional extra, nor should you get bonus points for it.
It comes part and parcel with the role. If you’re in the role, that’s a primary function in addition to everything else

2. You need to be able to either
a) win contested ball and dish it out or create goals that way
b) you need freakish skills/speed to swoop on a loose ball or create space for a mark, the. capitalise more often then you don’t.

3. You need a string on the bow to be able to contribute against the run of play.
Butler for example, is actually an ok’ish outside mid type. He’s fast, has ok skills and can run
Higgins alternatively, is stronger then you’d think, can take a mark, a does good work in contests.

Both of them IMO are def on the list players in and out pending form
I think Higgins has the bigger potential for development because his disposal and decision making is soooo up and down. Kid looks a little too over enthused and prone to being overwhelmed by the occasion. I reckon if he he can add a bit of discipline/structure to his style… he could very much be elite

[Zed]

Mitchito finds a way to get a couple goals a game at VFL level. His tackling pressure seems good also.

If he can bring that to the AFL side next year then we may have a versatile mid who can also play as goal kicking forward. I was about to use the word “small” and then remembered he’s not exactly small.

[B.M]

I think you’ll find most clubs have specialist small forwards

[B.M]

Owens plays as an inside mid at Sandy

He kicks goals whilst playing on ball

[Teflon]

The real test is finals pressure, against stronger teams and better defences.
Against bigger, stronger and faster opponents.

How do our smalls perform when the going gets tough?

Even Milne wilted and became a passenger when the going got tough and the stakes were high.

Thank you
We all know what small forwards are
But unlike some against inferior opposition I’m not goin* overboard on Butlers game
Yep kicked 5
Been non existent against quality opponents
We aren’t vying for top 8 with Eagles
But I guess some are excited by anything

[B.M]

5 goals and 3 assists is a big game from a forward

Regardless of who you’re playing

We won by 28 not 128

[IluvHarvey]

I'd sooner have Owens and Windhager playing as "small" forwards if we ever get into the finals ... at least they can win their own ball, get themselves involved in general play and make their presence felt.

There's no place for specialist "finishers" in finals - only "go-getters."

Someone tell Nick Davis this.

[B.M]

Richmond and the Bulldogs had four speacialist small forwards in premiership wins in 16, 17, 19, 20

Not sure you understand their role or importance