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We may have a blue print - finally - after much discussion here - or our forward line
King either playing Decoy - or CHF with the license to roam - Membrey/Sharman/Higgins as FF
However - going forward:
D.B.Cooper wrote: ↑Sat 02 Jul 2022 8:59am
Question: Should Ryder now be a key forward who pinch hits in ruck? Could he play another two years as a key forward? He has the craft, demands attention, applies pressure and can do the forward ruck work.
Might be a win/win for Ro and the club?
DB has a good point.
Higgins - Ryder - Butler
Billings - King - Membrey
Could be potent
“Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.”
― Aristophanes
If you have a Bee in your Bonnet - I can assist you with that - but it WILL involve some smacking upside the head!
Sainter_Dad wrote: ↑Sat 02 Jul 2022 10:23am
We may have a blue print - finally - after much discussion here - or our forward line
King either playing Decoy - or CHF with the license to roam - Membrey/Sharman/Higgins as FF
However - going forward:
D.B.Cooper wrote: ↑Sat 02 Jul 2022 8:59am
Question: Should Ryder now be a key forward who pinch hits in ruck? Could he play another two years as a key forward? He has the craft, demands attention, applies pressure and can do the forward ruck work.
Might be a win/win for Ro and the club?
DB has a good point.
Higgins - Ryder - Butler
Billings - King - Membrey
Could be potent
I think what we saw last night was a very similar setup to how we were playing in the first 3 to 4 weeks with Hayes in the side, no question Ratts is keen to have two key talls as we look much better, and our midfield play it better. It's just unfortunate we were robbed of Hayes and Sharman isn't the answer yet.
Won’t stack up long term *yawn*
We’ve tried this
We need 2 key forwards - Carlton has the model , Cats, Tigers etc have model Dogs want Ugle/Naughton as the model…
We are bombing still and kicking miracle goals over our head which is nice but not sustainable
If Curnow kicks 4.1 last night and not 1.4 we lose
And their misses were gettable, good looks at goal too
We scrapped away as usual- King as a decoy helped but do you honestly think sides will not cotton on to that trick?
The answer lies in finding another genuine forward option, improving our D50 - F50 ball transition (still one of worst in league) and getting some polish/class in the midfield and weeding out B graders
That’s if you want to challenge the top 4 big boys…
If you’re happy to be middling 10-12 and sneak up and pinch the some wins against depleted opponents…we’ll that’s another question..
Another key forward would help but they don’t grow on trees, hence why some of us were surprised we let Bruce walk. Something must have been off with that.
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
SaintPav wrote: ↑Sat 02 Jul 2022 11:43am
Losing Hayes has hurt us.
Another key forward would help but they don’t grow on trees, hence why some of us were surprised we let Bruce walk. Something must have been off with that.
LOL - yes - AFAIK - Bruce
Believed he was better than he was
“Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.”
― Aristophanes
If you have a Bee in your Bonnet - I can assist you with that - but it WILL involve some smacking upside the head!
Listening to Nick Riewoldt on commentary/replay - good commentator
1. Game looks natural for Carlton - Saints have to do everything right
2. If Carlton kick straight they probably win it
3. (Most important) Carlton’s forward entries are repeatable - Saints is not. Their marking inside forward 50 3qtr time was 8 marks to our 1
THATS having a game plan with good system and forward 50 cohesion
Yes we won
Yes we pressured
BUT everything we do is extremely hard work going forward and not repeatable and hard to rely on every week
That’s why I question the coaching /game plan.
Teflon wrote: ↑Sat 02 Jul 2022 7:27pm
Listening to Nick Riewoldt on commentary/replay - good commentator
1. Game looks natural for Carlton - Saints have to do everything right
2. If Carlton kick straight they probably win it
3. (Most important) Carlton’s forward entries are repeatable - Saints is not. Their marking inside forward 50 3qtr time was 8 marks to our 1
THATS having a game plan with good system and forward 50 cohesion
Yes we won
Yes we pressured
BUT everything we do is extremely hard work going forward and not repeatable and hard to rely on every week
That’s why I question the coaching /game plan.
Carltons midfield personnel are pretty good, on paper they beat ours.
A different coach can't change that.
Hopefully we can get some success in that area with recruiting this year and next. That's what fixes our issue in the midfield.
Given Brett Ratten will get an extension, serious requirement is an assistant coach with tactical nouse, an area Ratt’s isn’t particularly strong in.
A shake up of assistants needed for our midfield and forward lines.
Lethlean replacement also critical.
Scollop wrote: ↑Sat 02 Jul 2022 10:35am
The number 12 belongs at CHF.
King seems to hold his marks better outside the 50 metre arc and he doesn’t have to stress about set shot goals
I wouldn’t use the term decoy.
I’d just say that maybe Max should be using his athleticism more and ya gotta let the stallion gallop
Agree good post
Not sure he has the tank yet to play CHF for a full game. a pre season chasing around Wood is what he needs as arguably the best bigger runner at the club.
SaintPav wrote: ↑Sat 02 Jul 2022 11:43am
Losing Hayes has hurt us.
Another key forward would help but they don’t grow on trees, hence why some of us were surprised we let Bruce walk. Something must have been off with that.
To be fair, we didn't let Bruce walk. We wanted him to stay, we offered him a 2 year deal with reasonable money. The Dullbogs offered 4 with heaps more money. Simple.
Also - Josh wasn't exactly the most loved bloke around the club. That said - he was a pretty good 2nd forward and would be handy now. I'd much rather Hayes though because as we all know - Josh is probably the worst forward ruck in the history of relief ruck play - truly awful. Jack is at least very competitive against a 2nd ruck
Teflon wrote: ↑Sat 02 Jul 2022 7:27pm
Listening to Nick Riewoldt on commentary/replay - good commentator
1. Game looks natural for Carlton - Saints have to do everything right
2. If Carlton kick straight they probably win it
3. (Most important) Carlton’s forward entries are repeatable - Saints is not. Their marking inside forward 50 3qtr time was 8 marks to our 1
THATS having a game plan with good system and forward 50 cohesion
Yes we won
Yes we pressured
BUT everything we do is extremely hard work going forward and not repeatable and hard to rely on every week
That’s why I question the coaching /game plan.
That's 100% correct from Nick and well done for spotlighting it.
I don't question the game plan as much as you; we simply do not have the cattle. I'm not sure Clarkson in his prime is doing much more than Ratten with this midfield. Forwards are ok, Defence is pretty damn good but - mids are average. At best. Certainly compared to a good team who's building. I rate Jack Steele highly and thought he had an effective game as Cripps had. However - Walsh, Cerra, Kennedy, Hewett are all much much better versions of the St Kilda mids. And Ryder put on a clinic. They didn't lose it because of their poor structures and midfield play and gameplan - they lost it because their forwards butchered it.
If you put St Kilda's effort and grit with Carlton's class and ball use - you'd have a crazy good team. That said - I don't want Harry McKay kicking for my life - he's so flukey.
Teflon wrote: ↑Sat 02 Jul 2022 7:27pm
Listening to Nick Riewoldt on commentary/replay - good commentator
1. Game looks natural for Carlton - Saints have to do everything right
2. If Carlton kick straight they probably win it
3. (Most important) Carlton’s forward entries are repeatable - Saints is not. Their marking inside forward 50 3qtr time was 8 marks to our 1
THATS having a game plan with good system and forward 50 cohesion
Yes we won
Yes we pressured
BUT everything we do is extremely hard work going forward and not repeatable and hard to rely on every week
That’s why I question the coaching /game plan.
Carltons midfield personnel are pretty good, on paper they beat ours.
A different coach can't change that.
Hopefully we can get some success in that area with recruiting this year and next. That's what fixes our issue in the midfield.
Agreed midfield needs fixing
But Nick was talking about our forward structure as well
Mids won’t change that
Sharman will!
Must play.
It's not "weaknesses" in Cooper's game, it's our mids and team passing. Because delivery is problematic we rely on counter attack break aways. Butler and Higgins support that better than Cooper. But when we get better skilled mids Cooper will come into his own. He would star in Freo's side. Dan Butler wouldn't play.
Teflon wrote: ↑Sat 02 Jul 2022 7:27pm
Listening to Nick Riewoldt on commentary/replay - good commentator
1. Game looks natural for Carlton - Saints have to do everything right
2. If Carlton kick straight they probably win it
3. (Most important) Carlton’s forward entries are repeatable - Saints is not. Their marking inside forward 50 3qtr time was 8 marks to our 1
THATS having a game plan with good system and forward 50 cohesion
Yes we won
Yes we pressured
BUT everything we do is extremely hard work going forward and not repeatable and hard to rely on every week
That’s why I question the coaching /game plan.
Carltons midfield personnel are pretty good, on paper they beat ours.
A different coach can't change that.
Hopefully we can get some success in that area with recruiting this year and next. That's what fixes our issue in the midfield.
Agreed midfield needs fixing
But Nick was talking about our forward structure as well
Mids won’t change that
Sharman will!
Must play.
We are in part agreement, we need an extra Tall in F50, but it's not Sharman.
Hayes might be the answer in 2023 but we are short that type of player in 2022 unless Sharman was to miraculously develop to overcome his significant weaknesses in his next few weeks. Highly unlikely you'd think.
It will be interesting to see if the recruiters bring another key tall forward this year.
Hayes has only played a handful of games- took everyone by surprise in his first game, played workmanlike otherwise, but jeez I would want to see a lot more before I could make judgement. Playing Sharman in the ruck, totally stuffed his game against the Swans, and if you want inexperienced forwards to settle and improve, you don't throw them into the ruck and then expect them to impact as a forward- one of Ratt's more questionable moves. King needs to play high, Membrey deep, and Paddy maybe more time deep forward...very silky skills for his size.
B.M wrote: ↑Wed 06 Jul 2022 11:31pm
I think Sharman has too many weaknesses in his game!
Very one dimensional and doesn’t defend! He has a LONG way to go
I expect him to play less than 30 games
Ryder and Marshall deep.
A player plays 7 games
Has things in his game to work on
Career over. Won’t play 30
You should get down to the club asap with that foresight
I think Sharman just needs to puff his chest out and show us his guns
spert wrote: ↑Thu 07 Jul 2022 10:57am
Hayes has only played a handful of games- took everyone by surprise in his first game, played workmanlike otherwise, but jeez I would want to see a lot more before I could make judgement. Playing Sharman in the ruck, totally stuffed his game against the Swans, and if you want inexperienced forwards to settle and improve, you don't throw them into the ruck and then expect them to impact as a forward- one of Ratt's more questionable moves. King needs to play high, Membrey deep, and Paddy maybe more time deep forward...very silky skills for his size.
Correct
Reality is we don’t even know if Sharman will make it cause facts are he hasn’t had the chance yet
But I’m loving the arm chair heroes !!
Watching last night's game between Geelong and Melbourne it seems that "bombing" the ball in is part of the modern game. Not too many lace out kicks to leading forwards, nearly an impossibility with disciplined defenders and mids willing to run hard to support their defence.
It is obvious any side would love the luxury to hit up leading forwards but two things impact that, the opposition and the will of the players to continue selfless and sometimes unrewarded running.
Watching last night's kicks into F50 it is understandable a team will practice a chaos kick into F50, not only for the forwards but also the defenders.
