Do we deserve an explanation?

[Yorkeys]

Wheels have dropped off dramatically. Player form has plummeted. No cohesion. Dougal Howard a good example of form drop and an eccentric change in approach. Cannot score for love or money. Realistic top 4 chance to no chance in the blink of an eye. All this is obvious and distressing.

Thing is, does the Club's management and coaches think we deserve an explanation/assessment or is our distress and frustration nothing to them? Give us the bad news or let the endless speculation and recriminations go their corrosive ways and be damned.

It seems to me there are one or more situations at play, e.g.:
- either something unsavoury or terribly upsetting has happened but the club has managed to keep it quiet, which would be amazing;
- there is a power struggle going on in regard to selection/game plan/player roles and it has demoralised the players;
- special treatment is being given to certain players, possibly Hill, Ryder, Butler, Hannebery, Jones - as examples - and or the playing group has had enough of that and or being treated as a social causes platform and the attendant ceremony and lectures.
- captain(s) selection in Jack Steele's absence has created factional ill feeling.

Possibly at the same time Lethlean's role in waiting has distracted him and left a power vacuum in the football department and the result is no management, no accountability and/or toxic plays for his old job.

Anyway something(s) are seriously wrong and have only recently come to the surface. While Club spokesmen go for the media stonewall cliche approach and say they are shocked (yes shocked I tell you, must work harder..) senior people know what's going on. It may or may not be fixed quickly, but my position is as paying members and the Saints not being a secret society

WE DESERVE AN EXPLANATION. A credible one.

What do you think, comrades?

[skeptic]

Off-season 2010, I suggested we deserved an explanation about some very bizarre decision making that had annoyed me right up until and after the GF replay.

Pbly the most hate I’ve ever gotten on this forum. Ironically, some RL haters that were RL lovers at the time were the most indignant.

Hope you have a better experience here

(PS. The club won’t explain anything ever)

[Saintmatt]

I think anyone that pays someone's wages deserves an explanation. But we won't get one - certainly not one bedded in facts. The problem is any explanation would have to included elements of truth that would further expose us to game analysis/review by opposition.

That said - Lethlean was on SEN this morning which is at least something. FFS - imagine supporting North at the moment.

[Vortex]

Absolutely never were a top 4 chance, if you step back from that unrealistic expectation and take a deep breath and scan our list in an objective way then it's easier to conclude a more positive and realistic understanding of where we are on the curve.

Our depth of quality drops off at around 10th to 12th on the Iist and so I recon we are still short 6 to 8 short of a side capable of becoming a sustainable top 4 side. And that is assuming that we get 1 or 2 of our kids make the grade like Windy and NWM.

[Wayne42]

Here's Nathan Buckley's explanation...

Former Collingwood coach Nathan Buckley says the Saints simply don’t have enough talent compared to other sides in and around the top eight.

“They don’t look as sure behind the ball as they did in the first part of the year,” Buckley told SEN Breakfast.

“I think they’re going to struggle going forward because I think some weaknesses that were there are now coming through a little bit.

“They’re out of form, but I don’t think they’ve got the talent level that some sides have got.”

What he didn't mention was our ordinary forward line and lack of depth in certain areas.

What areas are they, i would say anywhere on the playing side of the boundary line.

[Wayne42]

St Kilda’s ball movement has become “predictable, bland and boring” as its season sits on shaky ground, according to Fox Footy pundits.

The Saints’ 51-point loss to Sydney marked their third-straight defeat — and the club’s lowest ever score under Brett Ratten (32) — dropping out of the top eight and into 10th position with an 8-6 record.

And key statistics highlighted on First Crack underline the club’s decline since its promising 5-1 start to the season. St Kilda has since ranked 13th with the footy, 12th without it and in clearances and 10th in post clearances.

The Saints have also dropped from ranking first in scoring per inside 50 from Rounds 1-6 to 17th since.

A frustrated Ratten was critical of his side’s delivery inside 50 post-match, but dual All-Australian Leigh Montagna believes there’s been warning signs for some time.

“There red flags were there going into this game... and then they failed horribly,” Montagna said on First Crack.

“In particular with their ball movement. It’s become predictable, bland, boring and so straight line.”

He showed one video where St Kilda ineffectively switched the play, and instead of continuing to move the ball to the open side to give their forwards space, kicked it straight down the line to congestion.

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/teams/ ... 1e967e1698

[1971]

Curious about special treatment being given to certain players, possibly Hill, Ryder, Butler, Hannebery, Jones - as examples. All imported and played consistently to justify their recruitment by the club. Add Howard too. Good point I think Yorkeys.

[SaintPav]

Howard.

[spert]

I don't like what I'm hearing from the coach in singling out players who are apparently suffering from the work of others...Ratts wants better delivery to Max, wanted players to kick to Hill a while back...I guess those up the ground might just be a little peed off that a couple of players can use the excuse they are not getting delivery on a platter, to cover their laziness in the contests.

I hope Ratts isn't the kind of coach who panders to golden boys, while the rest have to struggle to keep their positions. I played under coaches like that, and it puts a divide amongst players.

[Scollop]

I think most of us had similar thoughts but No …you don’t deserve an explanation Yorkeys

Actually, it’s funny. I was speculating and racking my brain about the possible reasons why we’ve been so shi!t lately.

Mentally it’s been difficult to retain the standards and the intensity for all our players. We obviously haven’t been able to click back into gear and continue with the momentum we had prior to the bye.

You get found out eventually and I think a combination of factors including the injury to Steele has impacted our side.

I know Steele played against Sydney but his absence for a few weeks caught up with us and I reckon some of our players are spent.

People have potted Brad Hill (and I’ve done that too at times) but interesting how we missed his run and carry

It’s plain to see that the list is not up to it.

[SunnyErnie]

If Ratts is given a new contract the board should be immediately removed.

[skeptic]

If Ratts is given a new contract the board should be immediately removed.

You can say that again

Again

[Jacks Back]

We're in a heavy training phase.

[bangaulegend]

If Ratts is given a new contract the board should be immediately removed.

You can say that again

Again

Come on Skeptic don't encourage him

[WellardSaint]

I don't like what I'm hearing from the coach in singling out players who are apparently suffering from the work of others...Ratts wants better delivery to Max, wanted players to kick to Hill a while back...I guess those up the ground might just be a little peed off that a couple of players can use the excuse they are not getting delivery on a platter, to cover their laziness in the contests.

I hope Ratts isn't the kind of coach who panders to golden boys, while the rest have to struggle to keep their positions. I played under coaches like that, and it puts a divide amongst players.

He shouldn't say that stuff in public, it can fracture the group.
A team should be united and all on the same page.
Putting some guys on a pedestal will make others wonder why they bother.
Reminds me of Tim Watson saying some guys had 'heads bigger than boarding house puddings' after we lost a 44 pt lead to the Hawks' and other such sayings.
Normally coaches use cliches, but trying to embarrass some guys has the opposite effect.
Especially when highly paid 'untouchables' get a bloody free ride

[SunnyErnie]

I don't like what I'm hearing from the coach in singling out players who are apparently suffering from the work of others...Ratts wants better delivery to Max, wanted players to kick to Hill a while back...I guess those up the ground might just be a little peed off that a couple of players can use the excuse they are not getting delivery on a platter, to cover their laziness in the contests.

I hope Ratts isn't the kind of coach who panders to golden boys, while the rest have to struggle to keep their positions. I played under coaches like that, and it puts a divide amongst players.

He shouldn't say that stuff in public, it can fracture the group.
A team should be united and all on the same page.
Putting some guys on a pedestal will make others wonder why they bother.
Reminds me of Tim Watson saying some guys had 'heads bigger than boarding house puddings' after we lost a 44 pt lead to the Hawks' and other such sayings.
Normally coaches use cliches, but trying to embarrass some guys has the opposite effect.
Especially when highly paid 'untouchables' get a bloody free ride

I think you will find that the lead was not 44 points. From memory it was either 63 or 69

[Sanctorum]

I think most of us had similar thoughts but No …you don’t deserve an explanation Yorkeys

Actually, it’s funny. I was speculating and racking my brain about the possible reasons why we’ve been so shi!t lately.

Mentally it’s been difficult to retain the standards and the intensity for all our players. We obviously haven’t been able to click back into gear and continue with the momentum we had prior to the bye.

You get found out eventually and I think a combination of factors including the injury to Steele has impacted our side.

I know Steele played against Sydney but his absence for a few weeks caught up with us and I reckon some of our players are spent.

People have potted Brad Hill (and I’ve done that too at times) but interesting how we missed his run and carry

It’s plain to see that the list is not up to it.

Quite so Scollop, you make a very valid point about the effect of Jack Steele's absence because on-field leadership has been really weak.

It is not unusual or out of order for coaches to praise or rubbish individual player's performances after a game, there is nothing wrong with stating the obvious that everyone can see for themselves. It is not unlike the times when a captain sprays a team mate(s) during the game or at the break - just imagine their frustration when things are going wrong....

[repta]

I think it is a structural issue.
The loss of Steele had a major impact. Now the loss of Wood, DMC and Hill on the weekend had a major impact.

The move of Sinclair in the recent weeks up the ground a bit has been detrimental to the the ability yo move the ball out of defence and up the ground in a more aggressive manner. We have lost that 45 degree 35m pass that clears the congestion.
Once cleared of congestion it makes it easier for King and the forwards to perform.
In the last few weeks StKilda have moved the ball slower than a drunk slug. The ball gets handballed in circles until someone finally kicks short, at which point the player goes back behind the mark and kicks to congestion again.