Max

[SaintPav]

Simply awesome.

[Sainter_Dad]

He will take lots of marks - but had no right to mark that particular one

[bangaulegend]

That was a great mark but IMO he tries the 1 hand technique too often he is way better with 2 hands

[shanegrambeau]

Look at Membrey! Checkout the height of his hands! He's got little jets in his shoes that propel him up like those rocket packs in Lost in Space! It looks ridiculously easy for him to just twitch to calves and spring up like a jumping jack.

[Trev from the Bush]

That was a great mark but IMO he tries the 1 hand technique too often he is way better with 2 hands

Had he tried to take that mark with two hands I seriously doubt he would have got a finger on the ball.

[bangaulegend]

That was a great mark but IMO he tries the 1 hand technique too often he is way better with 2 hands

Had he tried to take that mark with two hands I seriously doubt he would have got a finger on the ball.

That's not my point was a great mark but look at how many times he went one handed in the marking contest trying to replicate the same result but as I said IMO better off using 2 hands

[CQ SAINT]

That was a great mark but IMO he tries the 1 hand technique too often he is way better with 2 hands

Had he tried to take that mark with two hands I seriously doubt he would have got a finger on the ball.

That's not my point was a great mark but look at how many times he went one handed in the marking contest trying to replicate the same result but as I said IMO better off using 2 hands

He is just trying to get a hand to the ball, that will stop his defender marking it and will bring it to ground, It was kicked well over his head and the other hand has his opponent by the jumper.
What should he do, let his opponent push him aroind or drop his arms in disgust and abuse the bloke who kicked it?

[Banger9798]

I reckon we keep him

[The Fireman]

How good a kick is Jeremy Cameron ?

[SaintWiki]

I reckon we keep him

[CQ SAINT]

How good a kick is Jeremy Cameron ?

Yes. A very sound head. Confident in his routine and just lovely timing on the drop.

[Sainter_Dad]

How good a kick is Jeremy Cameron ?

Yes. A very sound head. Confident in his routine and just lovely timing on the drop.

And yet in 2015 when he was the same age as Max - comparisons for the season show:
Player Statistics Comparison

Jeremy Cameron	Name	Max King
198	Career Games	49
196cm	Height	202cm
96kg	Weight	97kg
2015	Stats for Season	2022
22	Games	11
8.4	Kicks	8.2
2.3	Handballs	2
10.7	Disposals	10.2
5.5	Marks	5.5
2.9	Goals	2.9
1.7	Behinds	2
1.7	Tackles	0.6
0.1	Hitouts	0
2.2	Inside 50s	1.2
0.5	Goal Assists	0.3
0.9	Frees For	1.3
0.9	Frees Against	0.9
4.3	Contested Possessions	6.3
6.1	Uncontested Possessions	4.1
6.9	Effective Disposals	5.9
0.645	Disposal Efficiency %	0.578
2	Clangers	1.8
0.8	Contested Marks	2.7
3	Marks Inside 50	4.1
0.2	Clearances	0.1
0.1	Rebound 50s	0
0.9	One Percenters	1.4
0	Bounces	0
85.3	Time On Ground %	90.2
0.1	Centre Clearances	0
0.1	Stoppage Clearances	0.1
6.3	Score Involvements	6.4
210.1	Metres Gained	211.6
2.5	Turnovers	2.1
0.8	Intercepts	0.2
0.8	Tackles Inside 50	0.1
70.1	AFL Fantasy Score	65.7
74.5	Supercoach Score	77.8

[B.M]

Max relies on contested marking too much

Like to see him on the lead and the ball kicked out in front of him more

[CQ SAINT]

How good a kick is Jeremy Cameron ?

Yes. A very sound head. Confident in his routine and just lovely timing on the drop.

And yet in 2015 when he was the same age as Max - comparisons for the season show:
Player Statistics Comparison

Jeremy Cameron	Name	Max King
198	Career Games	49
196cm	Height	202cm
96kg	Weight	97kg
2015	Stats for Season	2022
22	Games	11
8.4	Kicks	8.2
2.3	Handballs	2
10.7	Disposals	10.2
5.5	Marks	5.5
2.9	Goals	2.9
1.7	Behinds	2
1.7	Tackles	0.6
0.1	Hitouts	0
2.2	Inside 50s	1.2
0.5	Goal Assists	0.3
0.9	Frees For	1.3
0.9	Frees Against	0.9
4.3	Contested Possessions	6.3
6.1	Uncontested Possessions	4.1
6.9	Effective Disposals	5.9
0.645	Disposal Efficiency %	0.578
2	Clangers	1.8
0.8	Contested Marks	2.7
3	Marks Inside 50	4.1
0.2	Clearances	0.1
0.1	Rebound 50s	0
0.9	One Percenters	1.4
0	Bounces	0
85.3	Time On Ground %	90.2
0.1	Centre Clearances	0
0.1	Stoppage Clearances	0.1
6.3	Score Involvements	6.4
210.1	Metres Gained	211.6
2.5	Turnovers	2.1
0.8	Intercepts	0.2
0.8	Tackles Inside 50	0.1
70.1	AFL Fantasy Score	65.7
74.5	Supercoach Score	77.8

Very interesting comparison, heavily
Influenced by Max's last month.

Compare G.B totals at the same age. Then we hope that Max has tapped into a level of accuracy, that Cameron has had since he was in nappies.

[CQ SAINT]

Max relies on contested marking too much

Like to see him on the lead and the ball kicked out in front of him more

If we continue to get our midfield kicking improving, we are bound to see that, but until now, he has had no room and very little chance of not constantly flipping turnovers off leads.

His development and the recruitment required to feed him, has been spot on.

[Sainter_Dad]

How good a kick is Jeremy Cameron ?

Yes. A very sound head. Confident in his routine and just lovely timing on the drop.

And yet in 2015 when he was the same age as Max - comparisons for the season show:
Player Statistics Comparison

Jeremy Cameron	Name	Max King
198	Career Games	49
196cm	Height	202cm
96kg	Weight	97kg
2015	Stats for Season	2022
22	Games	11
8.4	Kicks	8.2
2.3	Handballs	2
10.7	Disposals	10.2
5.5	Marks	5.5
2.9	Goals	2.9
1.7	Behinds	2
1.7	Tackles	0.6
0.1	Hitouts	0
2.2	Inside 50s	1.2
0.5	Goal Assists	0.3
0.9	Frees For	1.3
0.9	Frees Against	0.9
4.3	Contested Possessions	6.3
6.1	Uncontested Possessions	4.1
6.9	Effective Disposals	5.9
0.645	Disposal Efficiency %	0.578
2	Clangers	1.8
0.8	Contested Marks	2.7
3	Marks Inside 50	4.1
0.2	Clearances	0.1
0.1	Rebound 50s	0
0.9	One Percenters	1.4
0	Bounces	0
85.3	Time On Ground %	90.2
0.1	Centre Clearances	0
0.1	Stoppage Clearances	0.1
6.3	Score Involvements	6.4
210.1	Metres Gained	211.6
2.5	Turnovers	2.1
0.8	Intercepts	0.2
0.8	Tackles Inside 50	0.1
70.1	AFL Fantasy Score	65.7
74.5	Supercoach Score	77.8

Very interesting comparison, heavily
Influenced by Max's last month.

Compare G.B totals at the same age. Then we hope that Max has tapped into a level of accuracy, that Cameron has had since he was in nappies.

Goals per game - 2.9 v 2.9
Points per game 1.7 v 2.0

Sames - well not quite - every 10 games Maxxy has kicked 3 more points

[CQ SAINT]

How good a kick is Jeremy Cameron ?

Yes. A very sound head. Confident in his routine and just lovely timing on the drop.

And yet in 2015 when he was the same age as Max - comparisons for the season show:
Player Statistics Comparison

Jeremy Cameron	Name	Max King
198	Career Games	49
196cm	Height	202cm
96kg	Weight	97kg
2015	Stats for Season	2022
22	Games	11
8.4	Kicks	8.2
2.3	Handballs	2
10.7	Disposals	10.2
5.5	Marks	5.5
2.9	Goals	2.9
1.7	Behinds	2
1.7	Tackles	0.6
0.1	Hitouts	0
2.2	Inside 50s	1.2
0.5	Goal Assists	0.3
0.9	Frees For	1.3
0.9	Frees Against	0.9
4.3	Contested Possessions	6.3
6.1	Uncontested Possessions	4.1
6.9	Effective Disposals	5.9
0.645	Disposal Efficiency %	0.578
2	Clangers	1.8
0.8	Contested Marks	2.7
3	Marks Inside 50	4.1
0.2	Clearances	0.1
0.1	Rebound 50s	0
0.9	One Percenters	1.4
0	Bounces	0
85.3	Time On Ground %	90.2
0.1	Centre Clearances	0
0.1	Stoppage Clearances	0.1
6.3	Score Involvements	6.4
210.1	Metres Gained	211.6
2.5	Turnovers	2.1
0.8	Intercepts	0.2
0.8	Tackles Inside 50	0.1
70.1	AFL Fantasy Score	65.7
74.5	Supercoach Score	77.8

Very interesting comparison, heavily
Influenced by Max's last month.

Compare G.B totals at the same age. Then we hope that Max has tapped into a level of accuracy, that Cameron has had since he was in nappies.

Goals per game - 2.9 v 2.9
Points per game 1.7 v 2.0

Sames - well not quite - every 10 games Maxxy has kicked 3 more points

Lol. I think you might have known I meant career totals at same age but just in case;

Cameron
2012 29.15
2013 62.27
2014 29.21 ear injury year.
2015 53.25


King
2020 22.20
2021 38.30
2022 32.22

You can work out the efficiency % if you like but I think my point is pretty clearly demonstrated in the raw numbers.

[shanegrambeau]

The how and why of Geelong procurement of Cameron has to be studied.

Talk about a brilliant piece of recruiting.

Geelong is like the housing market…we all say they are old and gonna fall, and they stay in it.

And part of the reason is their fixture and fortress, but also their recruitment.

Cameron is brilliant. And I hate him.

[magnifisaint]

It was a great mark by a special player. He can do whatever he wants to do.

[Sainter_Dad]

Lol. I think you might have known I meant career totals at same age but just in case;

Cameron
2012 29.15
2013 62.27
2014 29.21 ear injury year.
2015 53.25


King
2020 22.20
2021 38.30
2022 32.22

You can work out the efficiency % if you like but I think my point is pretty clearly demonstrated in the raw numbers.

No - actually - I was struggling to work out who G.B was (lol) then I twigged

In truth Cameron was, and is, a special player - but:
- Max was also out for 12 months with his knee (I note you picked up Cameron's injury)
- Cameron had a Giant of a midfield delivering the ball to him
- Max is a Superstar who plays for St Kilda - so his worth to me is increased tenfold
- We are a better team with Max in than we are without
- 2015 football is different to 2022 (so I know that the stats I posted can be skewed - but what can you do)
- Max is a talent - and is just learning
- look at some of the goal maps that are produced (none recently unfortunately) as to where some of the 'Superstars' get their goals from (deep entries in front are easier)

However, why is there an insistence to tear down our players?

[The Fireman]

Lol. I think you might have known I meant career totals at same age but just in case;

Cameron
2012 29.15
2013 62.27
2014 29.21 ear injury year.
2015 53.25


King
2020 22.20
2021 38.30
2022 32.22

You can work out the efficiency % if you like but I think my point is pretty clearly demonstrated in the raw numbers.

No - actually - I was struggling to work out who G.B was (lol) then I twigged

In truth Cameron was, and is, a special player - but:
- Max was also out for 12 months with his knee (I note you picked up Cameron's injury)
- Cameron had a Giant of a midfield delivering the ball to him
- Max is a Superstar who plays for St Kilda - so his worth to me is increased tenfold
- We are a better team with Max in than we are without
- 2015 football is different to 2022 (so I know that the stats I posted can be skewed - but what can you do)
- Max is a talent - and is just learning
- look at some of the goal maps that are produced (none recently unfortunately) as to where some of the 'Superstars' get their goals from (deep entries in front are easier)

However, why is there an insistence to tear down our players?

comparing stat is barely tearing any of our players down.

[CQ SAINT]

Lol. I think you might have known I meant career totals at same age but just in case;

Cameron
2012 29.15
2013 62.27
2014 29.21 ear injury year.
2015 53.25


King
2020 22.20
2021 38.30
2022 32.22

You can work out the efficiency % if you like but I think my point is pretty clearly demonstrated in the raw numbers.

No - actually - I was struggling to work out who G.B was (lol) then I twigged

In truth Cameron was, and is, a special player - but:
- Max was also out for 12 months with his knee (I note you picked up Cameron's injury)
- Cameron had a Giant of a midfield delivering the ball to him
- Max is a Superstar who plays for St Kilda - so his worth to me is increased tenfold
- We are a better team with Max in than we are without
- 2015 football is different to 2022 (so I know that the stats I posted can be skewed - but what can you do)
- Max is a talent - and is just learning
- look at some of the goal maps that are produced (none recently unfortunately) as to where some of the 'Superstars' get their goals from (deep entries in front are easier)

However, why is there an insistence to tear down our players?

You might have the wrong person. I was a left footed full forward, so I took particular interest in Cameron when he came along.
Someone else mentioned his beautiful I kick, albeit, in a Max thread. You jumped to Max's defence.
I proposed that your stats were misleading, and that there has been a big gap between Jeremy's natural ability to kick straight and Max's and pointed this out.
Jeremy's ear injury caused him loss of balance which clearly affected his kicking.
Max's kick was under question as a teenager and has remained so until the last month. It may have cost us a finals appearance last year.
His ability to win games is immense, so, kicking straighter for goal is a must. Lets hope he has turned a corner.
There is no insistence to tear anyone down from me, just debate.

[Sainter_Dad]

Lol. I think you might have known I meant career totals at same age but just in case;

Cameron
2012 29.15
2013 62.27
2014 29.21 ear injury year.
2015 53.25


King
2020 22.20
2021 38.30
2022 32.22

You can work out the efficiency % if you like but I think my point is pretty clearly demonstrated in the raw numbers.

No - actually - I was struggling to work out who G.B was (lol) then I twigged

In truth Cameron was, and is, a special player - but:
- Max was also out for 12 months with his knee (I note you picked up Cameron's injury)
- Cameron had a Giant of a midfield delivering the ball to him
- Max is a Superstar who plays for St Kilda - so his worth to me is increased tenfold
- We are a better team with Max in than we are without
- 2015 football is different to 2022 (so I know that the stats I posted can be skewed - but what can you do)
- Max is a talent - and is just learning
- look at some of the goal maps that are produced (none recently unfortunately) as to where some of the 'Superstars' get their goals from (deep entries in front are easier)

However, why is there an insistence to tear down our players?

You might have the wrong person. I was a left footed full forward, so I took particular interest in Cameron when he came along.
Someone else mentioned his beautiful I kick, albeit, in a Max thread. You jumped to Max's defence.
I proposed that your stats were misleading, and that there has been a big gap between Jeremy's natural ability to kick straight and Max's and pointed this out.
Jeremy's ear injury caused him loss of balance which clearly affected his kicking.
Max's kick was under question as a teenager and has remained so until the last month. It may have cost us a finals appearance last year.
His ability to win games is immense, so, kicking straighter for goal is a must. Lets hope he has turned a corner.
There is no insistence to tear anyone down from me, just debate.

No problem with you CQ or Firey - again - it is just a feeling on the site - it feel so Anti-Saints - Anti-Saints people that it is becoming a chore to read.

I should have been more clear - my debate with you is the paragraph above and you will note I conceded points - the last was just a general frustration.

Even the Paddy thread - I am pleased for the kid - he is a genuinely pleasant person - but - did we make a mistake in cutting him - I do not believe so
Paton v Geary - Paton is the future or needs to be dropped or ... - but Geary is no longer the answer - we may as well be arguing that Roo would straighten up the forward line

[The Fireman]

understand your sentiment Sainter-dad.
and agreed there is a lot of negativity going around but we have to concede following the saints can do that to a person
The older I get the more able I am to temper my emotions but still involved especially when I see fellow supporters going over the top and bagging players , calling for sackings etc and in the same breath blow smoke out the players arse when they do well.
Everyone deals with it in their own way
I hate byes.

[saynta]

understand your sentiment Sainter-dad.
and agreed there is a lot of negativity going around but we have to concede following the saints can do that to a person
The older I get the more able I am to temper my emotions but still involved especially when I see fellow supporters going over the top and bagging players , calling for sackings etc and in the same breath blow smoke out the players arse when they do well.
Everyone deals with it in their own way
I hate byes.

We could name names but for the sake of some harmony, we won't.