Richmond was robbed of 2 points
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- Sainter_Dad
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Richmond was robbed of 2 points
And for once it was not us on the wrong end of the stick as I believe that they will be more of a finals threat than Sydney
But - and The_Dud WILL correct me if I am wrong.
The Free was paid before the End of Play (when the umpire officially signals End of Play (except if you are Fremantle and playing St Kilda))
The Sydney player time wasted - ie picked the ball up and kicked it away (I know why he did - but if you believe you have won the free and play on they pay 50 as well)
The Game was over officiated - the free for 'prohibited contact' for instance
You cannot then have a conference and decide at that point not to enforce a clearly understood rule (the 50)
Whether you think the previous free was there or not is irrelevant - the 50 was every minute of every game every day
It is no wonder we go spare at the Umpires on Game Day when even in considered consensus they cannot agree on the outcome let alone in the heat of the game.
Make the rules clear - pare them back - umpire to the feel of the game - ie if there is no impact on play - let it go - don't penalize a touch on the shoulder that neither impedes or is dangerous
Umpire to the rule - did the player going for the ball have clear and fair access to the ball - yes - play on.
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Are we better off if they ARE enforced - technically they are there - but most Police play by the feel of the law - if you are impeding or making a situation dangerous - you will be fined - if not - play on
[Personally - I would have been filthy if it was St Kilda playing Richmond and the 50 was paid - but in the context of THAT game - it had to be]
But - and The_Dud WILL correct me if I am wrong.
The Free was paid before the End of Play (when the umpire officially signals End of Play (except if you are Fremantle and playing St Kilda))
The Sydney player time wasted - ie picked the ball up and kicked it away (I know why he did - but if you believe you have won the free and play on they pay 50 as well)
The Game was over officiated - the free for 'prohibited contact' for instance
You cannot then have a conference and decide at that point not to enforce a clearly understood rule (the 50)
Whether you think the previous free was there or not is irrelevant - the 50 was every minute of every game every day
It is no wonder we go spare at the Umpires on Game Day when even in considered consensus they cannot agree on the outcome let alone in the heat of the game.
Make the rules clear - pare them back - umpire to the feel of the game - ie if there is no impact on play - let it go - don't penalize a touch on the shoulder that neither impedes or is dangerous
Umpire to the rule - did the player going for the ball have clear and fair access to the ball - yes - play on.
Road Rules you may not be aware of:
You CAN be fined for leaving your car unlocked if you are more than 3 metres away from it $117.00
You CAN be fined for leaving your car with the window open more than 2 cm $117.00
You must NOT block your view - ie hang stuff from your rear view mirror
Pets cannot sit on your lap when driving
You must STOP at a stop sign for 3 seconds (try doing that next time you are at a stop sign)
You CAN be fined for for waiting for a car to exit their car park on the side of the road $227.00
You CAN be fined for riding electric hoverboards and skateboards in public as they do not meet the requirements of vehicles
You CAN be fined if you flash your headlights to warn of a Speed trap
You can be fined for having an empty bike rack on the back of your car
You can be fined as a full licence holder for leaving your child's L plates on
You can be fined if your passengers are drinking alcohol in your car (or are over .05)
Until recently (until May 2021) - if you had more than 50kg of potatoes you could be fined $2,000
Does anyone want to see these enforced?????
Are we better off if they ARE enforced - technically they are there - but most Police play by the feel of the law - if you are impeding or making a situation dangerous - you will be fined - if not - play on
[Personally - I would have been filthy if it was St Kilda playing Richmond and the 50 was paid - but in the context of THAT game - it had to be]
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Re: Richmond was robbed of 2 points
Credit to the umpire for using common sense.
The ball was kicked into the crowd after the final siren, so theoretically there was no time left to waste.
The ball was kicked into the crowd after the final siren, so theoretically there was no time left to waste.
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Re: Richmond was robbed of 2 points
I just saw it for the first time this morning. That's a 50 every day of every week. Doesn't matter if the siren sounded or the player didn't hear the whistle. The letter of the law is, if an opposition player disposes of the ball after the whistle, 50m penalty applies.
I'd be filthy if I was a Richmond supporter today. Will be interesting to see the spin the umpiring dept comes out with to explain this one.
I'd be filthy if I was a Richmond supporter today. Will be interesting to see the spin the umpiring dept comes out with to explain this one.
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Re: Richmond was robbed of 2 points
Commonsense won.
In a general sense, the rules need to be vastly simplified and stripped of any grey areas.
It’s impossible for umpires to get everything correct - it is a very hard game to officiate - but at least we can help them make fewer howlers.
I think the right team won. Swans we’re stiff to concede the previous goal, which was a touch-and-go holding-the-man call. Looked like dropping the ball to me.
In a general sense, the rules need to be vastly simplified and stripped of any grey areas.
It’s impossible for umpires to get everything correct - it is a very hard game to officiate - but at least we can help them make fewer howlers.
I think the right team won. Swans we’re stiff to concede the previous goal, which was a touch-and-go holding-the-man call. Looked like dropping the ball to me.
Last edited by bigcarl on Sat 28 May 2022 10:21am, edited 1 time in total.
- Sainter_Dad
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Re: Richmond was robbed of 2 points
Time wasting is not 'GAME TIME' as the second a free is paid it is supposed to be Time Off - or the Umpire can call time off and the time keeper make the adjustment - Time Wasting was bought in to stop 25 minutes of playing time 45 minutes of Real Time.... Are you telling me that for Prestia to take his free the ball was immediately available after it was kicked into the crowd????
Common sense applies if the game was umpired with Common Sense - but what is your take on the 'prohibited contact' free???
This is my issue with Umpiring - if you pay chopping the arms directly in front at one end - you CANNOT pay no infringement at the other - Non decisions are a form of decision as well
Effectively the umpires have taken a 'you can have a 15 minute smoko' for most of the game - but then when one guy is on the loo for 10 minutes docked his pay.
“Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.”
― Aristophanes
If you have a Bee in your Bonnet - I can assist you with that - but it WILL involve some smacking upside the head!
― Aristophanes
If you have a Bee in your Bonnet - I can assist you with that - but it WILL involve some smacking upside the head!
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Re: Richmond was robbed of 2 points
Alot of broken TVs in Richmond
I reckon they were robbed
I reckon they were robbed
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- desertsaint
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Re: Richmond was robbed of 2 points
Not sure how they were robbed. we're complaining about a non-fifty for a free that was non existent. And ignoring the worst umpire dissent we've seen this year also not penalised. If it'd been a fifty on top we'd all be saying the swans were robbed - as they had been all night by very poor umpiring very much to richmonds advantage.
and the rule about the end of the game is not when the ump blows the whistle, it is when the ump (any of them) hears the siren. he did blow the free before the siren, but with crowd roar and the siren all going off in the same moment, what idiot would blow a fifty for a player celebrating in a very common and understandable way. There was no intent to waste time or hamper in any way the richmond player.
The right decision was made in the non-fifty. And here we are complaining because for once an umps interpretation was right. Why? Especially in a game almost ruined by very poor officiating up until that very moment.
And btw - what a great second half it was. Franklin still doing it.
and the rule about the end of the game is not when the ump blows the whistle, it is when the ump (any of them) hears the siren. he did blow the free before the siren, but with crowd roar and the siren all going off in the same moment, what idiot would blow a fifty for a player celebrating in a very common and understandable way. There was no intent to waste time or hamper in any way the richmond player.
The right decision was made in the non-fifty. And here we are complaining because for once an umps interpretation was right. Why? Especially in a game almost ruined by very poor officiating up until that very moment.
And btw - what a great second half it was. Franklin still doing it.
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Re: Richmond was robbed of 2 points
desertsaint wrote: ↑Sat 28 May 2022 10:22am Not sure how they were robbed. we're complaining about a non-fifty for a free that was non existent. And ignoring the worst umpire dissent we've seen this year also not penalised.
Good points. Dusty and Riewoldt could be pinged by the MRO under the dopey and ridiculous dissent rule.
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Re: Richmond was robbed of 2 points
Sorry you are completely wrongSainter_Dad wrote: ↑Sat 28 May 2022 10:08amTime wasting is not 'GAME TIME' as the second a free is paid it is supposed to be Time Off - or the Umpire can call time off and the time keeper make the adjustment - Time Wasting was bought in to stop 25 minutes of playing time 45 minutes of Real Time.... Are you telling me that for Prestia to take his free the ball was immediately available after it was kicked into the crowd????
It is only time off when the umpire calls it (ball ups, scores and out of bounds ) are automatic on the call. Other time off is when the umpire might be setting up a shot at goal or there is a delay in getting the ball back to the kicker.
The game was over when Warner kicked the ball away. So there was no waste of time because there was literally no time to waste.
Brian Taylor is a fool who has made the greatest mountain of a molehill with this
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Re: Richmond was robbed of 2 points
Watched it live last night .
All I'll say is that I have no doubt that the fifty would have been paid if it was a st kilda team in place of Sydney.
All I'll say is that I have no doubt that the fifty would have been paid if it was a st kilda team in place of Sydney.
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- meher baba
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Re: Richmond was robbed of 2 points
I was more bothered about the opening free kick of the game: a classic instance of an umpire blowing the whistle for what he thought might be going on but couldn’t actually see (because in reality there was nothing to see).
But surely the only way to look at last night’s game is that Richmond blew it badly.
But surely the only way to look at last night’s game is that Richmond blew it badly.
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Re: Richmond was robbed of 2 points
Arguing for arguments sake. Who cares. Opposition forum for me. I hate Sydney a little more than I hate Richmond.
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Re: Richmond was robbed of 2 points
How would we all feel if Prestia was paid a 50 and then took more than his allotted 30 seconds to kick the ball for goal and was called to play on?
Time wasting only matters when there is time on the clock.
10 seconds earlier and the Sydney player doesn't kick the ball away. And it is entirely plausible that he thought the whistle was for him as Prestia caught him high before the slight jumper tug.
The right decision was reached, eventually...and the umpires collaborate ALL THE TIME.
Nothing to see here!
Time wasting only matters when there is time on the clock.
10 seconds earlier and the Sydney player doesn't kick the ball away. And it is entirely plausible that he thought the whistle was for him as Prestia caught him high before the slight jumper tug.
The right decision was reached, eventually...and the umpires collaborate ALL THE TIME.
Nothing to see here!
Re: Richmond was robbed of 2 points
For me, a 50m penalty should have applied, and Richmond were robbed of 2 points. Earlier umpiring decisions are irrelevant, in any event I thought the decisions favoured Richmond in the 1st half, but helped to kick-start Sydney in the 2nd (aided by poor Richmond discipline, which ultimately cost them the game).
As has been noted vy a poster above, the 50m penalty overall should be reduced to 25m, the 50m penalty is a major blight on the game.
As has been noted vy a poster above, the 50m penalty overall should be reduced to 25m, the 50m penalty is a major blight on the game.
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Re: Richmond was robbed of 2 points
Yep, who gives a tu'penny f***. Not I said the spider to the fly.
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Re: Richmond was robbed of 2 points
Mods, please move this post to the general forum. It has nothing to do with St Kilda!!!
St Kilda should never trade with Essendon and Sydney ever again!!!
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Re: Richmond was robbed of 2 points
As others have said, the issue of the correctness of the free kick is irrelevant.
There are numerous issues relating to what happens after the siren sounds that are unclear, and perhaps this is an example of one of them.
Law 19 relates to 50 metre penalties and I think the very first section is the key to whether the correct decision was paid last night.
"19.1 SPIRIT AND INTENTION
After a Mark or Free Kick has been awarded to a Player, a Fifty Metre Penalty will be awarded against the opposing Team which delays or impedes the play, or behaves
in an unsportsmanlike manner."
Did the player hear the whistle and kick the ball into the stands in order to delay or impede the play or to be unsportsmanlike? It didn't look like it.
I doubt if the player would have done the same thing if the free was within the 50 metre arc. He did it because there was no chance of the player kicking a score. However, he was foolish. The three umpires appeared to discuss the decision amongst themselves before it was clarified. One of three has umpired more GFs than any other umpire. This is a good thing, and if it is not already, should be an instruction to follow for any issue relating to the end of quarter or play. In fact, I would like to see it extended to more of the whole of play. Umpires now can override decisions of other umpires if they feel the umpire was unsighted or missed (say) an obvious free.
There are numerous issues relating to what happens after the siren sounds that are unclear, and perhaps this is an example of one of them.
Law 19 relates to 50 metre penalties and I think the very first section is the key to whether the correct decision was paid last night.
"19.1 SPIRIT AND INTENTION
After a Mark or Free Kick has been awarded to a Player, a Fifty Metre Penalty will be awarded against the opposing Team which delays or impedes the play, or behaves
in an unsportsmanlike manner."
Did the player hear the whistle and kick the ball into the stands in order to delay or impede the play or to be unsportsmanlike? It didn't look like it.
I doubt if the player would have done the same thing if the free was within the 50 metre arc. He did it because there was no chance of the player kicking a score. However, he was foolish. The three umpires appeared to discuss the decision amongst themselves before it was clarified. One of three has umpired more GFs than any other umpire. This is a good thing, and if it is not already, should be an instruction to follow for any issue relating to the end of quarter or play. In fact, I would like to see it extended to more of the whole of play. Umpires now can override decisions of other umpires if they feel the umpire was unsighted or missed (say) an obvious free.
Last edited by perfectionist on Sat 28 May 2022 12:42pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Richmond was robbed of 2 points
They were out played in the 2nd half and didnt deserve any points, be it a draw or win IMO. As much as people salute Hardwick as a coach he had his pants pulled down last night. There midfield run out of legs and he failed to throw things around until the last 5 minutes. Moving Gibcus forward and giving them a marking target forward should have happened at half time IMO.
It hasnt tempered my hatred of Sydney, they are an arrogant FC and have had far too many academy concessions in recent years.
It hasnt tempered my hatred of Sydney, they are an arrogant FC and have had far too many academy concessions in recent years.
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Re: Richmond was robbed of 2 points
This incident shows the ludicrous direction the game is going with rules and their interpretation.
The umpires are on a hiding to nothing with rule interpretation and such a fast fluid game.
Blow the whistle for a free kick and an opposition player boots the ball out into the crowd after the whistle has blown is a 50 mt penalty without doubt.
IMO watching it live it was 50mt straight away. If it was not 50, then surely the free kick should have been overturned against Martin & Reiwoldt for dissent.
Regardless of previous poor decisions, each needs to be on its own merit and I think this was 50 every day of the playing week.
How ridiculous are the rules when a player raises his arms in disappointment at a free kick given against him and is penalized with a 50, but a guy can boot the footy over the fence into crowd following a free against without penalty.
The umpires are on a hiding to nothing with rule interpretation and such a fast fluid game.
Blow the whistle for a free kick and an opposition player boots the ball out into the crowd after the whistle has blown is a 50 mt penalty without doubt.
IMO watching it live it was 50mt straight away. If it was not 50, then surely the free kick should have been overturned against Martin & Reiwoldt for dissent.
Regardless of previous poor decisions, each needs to be on its own merit and I think this was 50 every day of the playing week.
How ridiculous are the rules when a player raises his arms in disappointment at a free kick given against him and is penalized with a 50, but a guy can boot the footy over the fence into crowd following a free against without penalty.
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Re: Richmond was robbed of 2 points
It was as a result of tactic used by Kevin Sheedy when coach of Essendon. He instructed his players to run any opponents not within 80 metres of goal to be run into the fence if they had a mark or free as it would only advance them 15 metres and would give his team time to set up behind the ball. It worked on the day when they beat WC (I think the team was).
- shanegrambeau
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Re: Richmond was robbed of 2 points
Scar tissue in my brain from Barry Halls love tap causes me to think it’s part of the ‘Always go nice on Sydney’ thing…..
But I like to see Cotchin in a loosing team so..no biggie.
But I like to see Cotchin in a loosing team so..no biggie.
You're quite brilliant Shane, yeah..terrific!
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Re: Richmond was robbed of 2 points
before the sites curmudgeon gets to u
thats
losing not loosing
thats
losing not loosing
.name the ways , thought manipulates the State of Presence away.
.tipara waranta kani nina-tu.
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Re: Richmond was robbed of 2 points
It was a 50 metre penalty every day of the week.
Prestia may not have kicked straight and may still have missed, and the best result Richmond could have achieved was a draw anyway, but considering the game was over officiated with 60 free kicks paid, and seeing some of the 50 metre penalties paid this year (like in Adelaide against us last week) pale into insignificance compared to what the Swans player did.
The Swans should thank their lucky stars in my opinion.
Prestia may not have kicked straight and may still have missed, and the best result Richmond could have achieved was a draw anyway, but considering the game was over officiated with 60 free kicks paid, and seeing some of the 50 metre penalties paid this year (like in Adelaide against us last week) pale into insignificance compared to what the Swans player did.
The Swans should thank their lucky stars in my opinion.
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