VFL R9 Carlton v Sandy

[CQ SAINT]

So Bytel beaten .... had no impact .... yet had 26 possessions and 8 tackles

Where did he get his possessions?

Surely must have had some impact

Most were inclose and scrappy, he simply doesnt have the tools to give himself room to use the ball cleanly. Carlton via Dow, Williamson etc just marched out of the centre and provided overlap run coming out of defence. Bytel just couldnt go with them or impact the game when in transition. He is another version of Dunstan, can win the ball on the ground.

Its not about hating Saynta, its about being realistic about a players capacities and how they played. Thats not to say he cant improve because many players do, but he needs to work on his 'instinctive movements' when he wins the ball to give himself room. That plus his running capacities on the spread got really exposed against Carltons quality VFL midfielders. Id bet my left nut thats the exact feedback he would be getting from Batchelor and Ratten etc.

There is no doubting he has the ability to win the ball and pressure in close, but its about what he does with the ball and his work without the ball on the spread that will decide whether he makes it at AFL level or not. He is a better kick than Dunstan but very much plays in a similiar manner.

I think you stopped watching at half time mate. Bytel was rarely out of screen shot in the 2nd half and the Bluebaggers spent all their chips in the 1st half.

Dow and Williamson are soft, outside footballers and the space they found in the first quarter was shut down quickly with zone structures across the middle and half back as both teams started circle work trying to avoid the zones, that we forced. Lienert, Highmore and Joyce were impressive.

Dow had 24 touches and 2.1, three minutes into the 3rd and was all but completely shut down after that. Soft as butter under pressure.

Bytel just got better as the game went on and he and Watson shut the Blues mids down, while Clark, Byrnes, Connolly and McHale created run off the rebound and through zones. We took control of the pace of the game while they had the faster team.

Bytel tackled (8) and harassed at stoppages, when he wasn't in and under in clearance work, (5) mostly by hand (15) and while he doesn't always get the last possession in a clearance chain, he gets his hands on the ball often and uses his body well. He didn't feature in many centre bounces. Clearly the role he was asked to play with the AFL in mind. Our stoppage clearances are where we are weakest.

He also linked through zones and played the corners of the centre square, following the play, as Carlton tried to circle around the zone defence and forward pressure. Sandy's gameplan is finally aligning with ours, now we have more experienced players available and its shows. The coaches have recruited with a mid of developing young players in the VFL, that is clear.

Most of his kicks (11) came in the second half, in general play. Finally, he looks fit and is playing out games. He was instrumental in turning the game around and played his role well.

So what do we conclude if he doesn't get selected this week?

I think we are going well enough and the players have finally bought into the gospel coming from Ratts and co enough, to not have to expect that Bytel will be the messiah and be rushed in because of his body size. He isn't anywhere near as good as Captain Courageous or at that level of two way AFL football. If he can tag, link with rebounds and spam stoppages though, he is a chance and could get a realistic role.

I called the changes last week and we out run and out gunned a feisty Adelaide, who could have buried us in the first half, but got buried in the last

We have the confidence, fitness and stamina to grind it out and brains trust worth trusting. Too many changes aren't necessary.

We have a gun defence, quick and accurate outside players and forwards that score from minimal chances but can explode for a quarter. We also have a game plan that works.

Owens is the Steele clone. Bytel is more Crouch and needs to learn to be like Seb Ross, versatile.

The kids will come in for cameos. But, the structure will fall around known entities, like Sinclair, Paton and Jones, who can play inside and out already.

That's my take. We need a bit more pace than last week, against North.

Maybe Byrnes and Higgins in this week.
Id drop Billings and Sharman.

I think Bytel needs to make a strong case he is AFL grade while Steele is out. If he can't can't establish himself in the side soon I think he is in fear of becoming permanent fringe material.

On Billings, it would seem harsh to drop him but at some stage you'd think Ratts will have to put the blow torch on his inconsistencies. Being only his 2nd game back from a lengthy time between competitive hitouts, does he get a reprieve.

Bytel played 16 games of football between 2018 and 2021 Vort. 16 AFL games.
I'm not sure he is under any pressure, other than to stay fit and healthy this year.
As he is out of contract, there is absolutely no need to play him in the AFL. He just needs to play and increase his fitness.

Billings will play and he better do something because I think there will be no punches held after the bye

A player in his his 4th year of an elite sporting organisation not feeling any pressure to make the grade? Gee I hope that isn't the case, I hope he is under immense pressure and I hope the club has a time limit in mind for how long they will invest in his spot on the list. Gotta be ruthless.

This is just a guess but if he hasn't made a strong case to prove he is best 22 by seasons end then I think he'll be under immense pressure in his 5th year. Has to be.

No offence mate. Your entitled to an opinion but with the predictions you have on record, I'll take this latest one with a grain of salt.

[Vortex]

So Bytel beaten .... had no impact .... yet had 26 possessions and 8 tackles

Where did he get his possessions?

Surely must have had some impact

Most were inclose and scrappy, he simply doesnt have the tools to give himself room to use the ball cleanly. Carlton via Dow, Williamson etc just marched out of the centre and provided overlap run coming out of defence. Bytel just couldnt go with them or impact the game when in transition. He is another version of Dunstan, can win the ball on the ground.

Its not about hating Saynta, its about being realistic about a players capacities and how they played. Thats not to say he cant improve because many players do, but he needs to work on his 'instinctive movements' when he wins the ball to give himself room. That plus his running capacities on the spread got really exposed against Carltons quality VFL midfielders. Id bet my left nut thats the exact feedback he would be getting from Batchelor and Ratten etc.

There is no doubting he has the ability to win the ball and pressure in close, but its about what he does with the ball and his work without the ball on the spread that will decide whether he makes it at AFL level or not. He is a better kick than Dunstan but very much plays in a similiar manner.

I think you stopped watching at half time mate. Bytel was rarely out of screen shot in the 2nd half and the Bluebaggers spent all their chips in the 1st half.

Dow and Williamson are soft, outside footballers and the space they found in the first quarter was shut down quickly with zone structures across the middle and half back as both teams started circle work trying to avoid the zones, that we forced. Lienert, Highmore and Joyce were impressive.

Dow had 24 touches and 2.1, three minutes into the 3rd and was all but completely shut down after that. Soft as butter under pressure.

Bytel just got better as the game went on and he and Watson shut the Blues mids down, while Clark, Byrnes, Connolly and McHale created run off the rebound and through zones. We took control of the pace of the game while they had the faster team.

Bytel tackled (8) and harassed at stoppages, when he wasn't in and under in clearance work, (5) mostly by hand (15) and while he doesn't always get the last possession in a clearance chain, he gets his hands on the ball often and uses his body well. He didn't feature in many centre bounces. Clearly the role he was asked to play with the AFL in mind. Our stoppage clearances are where we are weakest.

He also linked through zones and played the corners of the centre square, following the play, as Carlton tried to circle around the zone defence and forward pressure. Sandy's gameplan is finally aligning with ours, now we have more experienced players available and its shows. The coaches have recruited with a mid of developing young players in the VFL, that is clear.

Most of his kicks (11) came in the second half, in general play. Finally, he looks fit and is playing out games. He was instrumental in turning the game around and played his role well.

So what do we conclude if he doesn't get selected this week?

I think we are going well enough and the players have finally bought into the gospel coming from Ratts and co enough, to not have to expect that Bytel will be the messiah and be rushed in because of his body size. He isn't anywhere near as good as Captain Courageous or at that level of two way AFL football. If he can tag, link with rebounds and spam stoppages though, he is a chance and could get a realistic role.

I called the changes last week and we out run and out gunned a feisty Adelaide, who could have buried us in the first half, but got buried in the last

We have the confidence, fitness and stamina to grind it out and brains trust worth trusting. Too many changes aren't necessary.

We have a gun defence, quick and accurate outside players and forwards that score from minimal chances but can explode for a quarter. We also have a game plan that works.

Owens is the Steele clone. Bytel is more Crouch and needs to learn to be like Seb Ross, versatile.

The kids will come in for cameos. But, the structure will fall around known entities, like Sinclair, Paton and Jones, who can play inside and out already.

That's my take. We need a bit more pace than last week, against North.

Maybe Byrnes and Higgins in this week.
Id drop Billings and Sharman.

I think Bytel needs to make a strong case he is AFL grade while Steele is out. If he can't can't establish himself in the side soon I think he is in fear of becoming permanent fringe material.

On Billings, it would seem harsh to drop him but at some stage you'd think Ratts will have to put the blow torch on his inconsistencies. Being only his 2nd game back from a lengthy time between competitive hitouts, does he get a reprieve.

Bytel played 16 games of football between 2018 and 2021 Vort. 16 AFL games.
I'm not sure he is under any pressure, other than to stay fit and healthy this year.
As he is out of contract, there is absolutely no need to play him in the AFL. He just needs to play and increase his fitness.

Billings will play and he better do something because I think there will be no punches held after the bye

A player in his his 4th year of an elite sporting organisation not feeling any pressure to make the grade? Gee I hope that isn't the case, I hope he is under immense pressure and I hope the club has a time limit in mind for how long they will invest in his spot on the list. Gotta be ruthless.

This is just a guess but if he hasn't made a strong case to prove he is best 22 by seasons end then I think he'll be under immense pressure in his 5th year. Has to be.

No offence mate. Your entitled to an opinion but with the predictions you have on record, I'll take this latest one with a grain of salt.

No need to get all offended Benny Boy. It's an opnion, I didn't say it was fact. But it sounds like you believe your postion is the correct one.

[CQ SAINT]

So Bytel beaten .... had no impact .... yet had 26 possessions and 8 tackles

Where did he get his possessions?

Surely must have had some impact

Most were inclose and scrappy, he simply doesnt have the tools to give himself room to use the ball cleanly. Carlton via Dow, Williamson etc just marched out of the centre and provided overlap run coming out of defence. Bytel just couldnt go with them or impact the game when in transition. He is another version of Dunstan, can win the ball on the ground.

Its not about hating Saynta, its about being realistic about a players capacities and how they played. Thats not to say he cant improve because many players do, but he needs to work on his 'instinctive movements' when he wins the ball to give himself room. That plus his running capacities on the spread got really exposed against Carltons quality VFL midfielders. Id bet my left nut thats the exact feedback he would be getting from Batchelor and Ratten etc.

There is no doubting he has the ability to win the ball and pressure in close, but its about what he does with the ball and his work without the ball on the spread that will decide whether he makes it at AFL level or not. He is a better kick than Dunstan but very much plays in a similiar manner.

I think you stopped watching at half time mate. Bytel was rarely out of screen shot in the 2nd half and the Bluebaggers spent all their chips in the 1st half.

Dow and Williamson are soft, outside footballers and the space they found in the first quarter was shut down quickly with zone structures across the middle and half back as both teams started circle work trying to avoid the zones, that we forced. Lienert, Highmore and Joyce were impressive.

Dow had 24 touches and 2.1, three minutes into the 3rd and was all but completely shut down after that. Soft as butter under pressure.

Bytel just got better as the game went on and he and Watson shut the Blues mids down, while Clark, Byrnes, Connolly and McHale created run off the rebound and through zones. We took control of the pace of the game while they had the faster team.

Bytel tackled (8) and harassed at stoppages, when he wasn't in and under in clearance work, (5) mostly by hand (15) and while he doesn't always get the last possession in a clearance chain, he gets his hands on the ball often and uses his body well. He didn't feature in many centre bounces. Clearly the role he was asked to play with the AFL in mind. Our stoppage clearances are where we are weakest.

He also linked through zones and played the corners of the centre square, following the play, as Carlton tried to circle around the zone defence and forward pressure. Sandy's gameplan is finally aligning with ours, now we have more experienced players available and its shows. The coaches have recruited with a mid of developing young players in the VFL, that is clear.

Most of his kicks (11) came in the second half, in general play. Finally, he looks fit and is playing out games. He was instrumental in turning the game around and played his role well.

So what do we conclude if he doesn't get selected this week?

I think we are going well enough and the players have finally bought into the gospel coming from Ratts and co enough, to not have to expect that Bytel will be the messiah and be rushed in because of his body size. He isn't anywhere near as good as Captain Courageous or at that level of two way AFL football. If he can tag, link with rebounds and spam stoppages though, he is a chance and could get a realistic role.

I called the changes last week and we out run and out gunned a feisty Adelaide, who could have buried us in the first half, but got buried in the last

We have the confidence, fitness and stamina to grind it out and brains trust worth trusting. Too many changes aren't necessary.

We have a gun defence, quick and accurate outside players and forwards that score from minimal chances but can explode for a quarter. We also have a game plan that works.

Owens is the Steele clone. Bytel is more Crouch and needs to learn to be like Seb Ross, versatile.

The kids will come in for cameos. But, the structure will fall around known entities, like Sinclair, Paton and Jones, who can play inside and out already.

That's my take. We need a bit more pace than last week, against North.

Maybe Byrnes and Higgins in this week.
Id drop Billings and Sharman.

I think Bytel needs to make a strong case he is AFL grade while Steele is out. If he can't can't establish himself in the side soon I think he is in fear of becoming permanent fringe material.

On Billings, it would seem harsh to drop him but at some stage you'd think Ratts will have to put the blow torch on his inconsistencies. Being only his 2nd game back from a lengthy time between competitive hitouts, does he get a reprieve.

Bytel played 16 games of football between 2018 and 2021 Vort. 16 AFL games.
I'm not sure he is under any pressure, other than to stay fit and healthy this year.
As he is out of contract, there is absolutely no need to play him in the AFL. He just needs to play and increase his fitness.

Billings will play and he better do something because I think there will be no punches held after the bye

A player in his his 4th year of an elite sporting organisation not feeling any pressure to make the grade? Gee I hope that isn't the case, I hope he is under immense pressure and I hope the club has a time limit in mind for how long they will invest in his spot on the list. Gotta be ruthless.

This is just a guess but if he hasn't made a strong case to prove he is best 22 by seasons end then I think he'll be under immense pressure in his 5th year. Has to be.

No offence mate. Your entitled to an opinion but with the predictions you have on record, I'll take this latest one with a grain of salt.

No need to get all offended Benny Boy. It's an opnion, I didn't say it was fact. But it sounds like you believe your postion is the correct one.

Lol. You don't offend me Vort. I've just written off 2019 and restored Jacks pre-injury status as a potential top 10 draftee.
I'll just hold out that Jack might be a bit like Armo. Pick 9, drafted into a side about to play serious finals campaigns and only managed 20 odd games in in 4 years.
I think we both agree another contract is likely unless we pull of a cracker mid year rookie selection. Then he may be in trouble but he'll sign on for peanuts and probably shouldn't be too worried. Not a big decision where we currently stand but I reckon Ratten is fighting for his own future right now and has bigger fish to fry.

[saynta]

The write up from the Sandringham FC site -

Final Score: Sandringham 9.15.69 defeated Carlton 9.11.65

Goals: M. Heath (3), M. Allison (2), M. Owens (2), D. Butler, G. Lok
Best: J. Geary, H. Clark, J. McHale, R. Byrnes, T. Milne, M. Heath

It would seem those at Sandringham also have different opinion to others - who would have thought!

Saynta I can't believe you are trying to call me out for making it personal, when thats exactly how you respond to everyone on this forum. You have attacked most at some point with your over the top rhetoric. Now just for the sake of the discussion here is what I wrote regarding Bytel's game in my match write up -

"Bytel got plenty of touches but had zero impact IMO. I think he got tagged today but he struggled against the mobile opposition".

Now please explain how that is anything other than a constructive observation (my opinion)? Its hardly a put down or negative comments as you have labelled it? Again its a common theme with yourself not being able to accept anything other than glowing endorsements of our players. Well believe it or not they can all improve and until we win flag/s (plural) I will continue to have an opinion on how our players play and if you cant cope with that you had best find another outlet other than Saintsational.

""Bytel got plenty of touches but had zero impact IMO. I think he got tagged today but he struggled against the mobile opposition".

Pretty negative imhfo.
BEST
Carlton: Dow, Boyd, Williamson, Setterfield, Trudgeon, Fogarty
Sandringham: Highmore, Byrnes, Lienert, BYTEL, Campbell, Clark, Geary, Joyce, Heath

I am not going anywhere ....pal.

[Impatient Sainter]

The write up from the Sandringham FC site -

Final Score: Sandringham 9.15.69 defeated Carlton 9.11.65

Goals: M. Heath (3), M. Allison (2), M. Owens (2), D. Butler, G. Lok
Best: J. Geary, H. Clark, J. McHale, R. Byrnes, T. Milne, M. Heath

It would seem those at Sandringham also have different opinion to others - who would have thought!

Saynta I can't believe you are trying to call me out for making it personal, when thats exactly how you respond to everyone on this forum. You have attacked most at some point with your over the top rhetoric. Now just for the sake of the discussion here is what I wrote regarding Bytel's game in my match write up -

"Bytel got plenty of touches but had zero impact IMO. I think he got tagged today but he struggled against the mobile opposition".

Now please explain how that is anything other than a constructive observation (my opinion)? Its hardly a put down or negative comments as you have labelled it? Again its a common theme with yourself not being able to accept anything other than glowing endorsements of our players. Well believe it or not they can all improve and until we win flag/s (plural) I will continue to have an opinion on how our players play and if you cant cope with that you had best find another outlet other than Saintsational.

""Bytel got plenty of touches but had zero impact IMO. I think he got tagged today but he struggled against the mobile opposition".

Pretty negative imhfo.
BEST
Carlton: Dow, Boyd, Williamson, Setterfield, Trudgeon, Fogarty
Sandringham: Highmore, Byrnes, Lienert, BYTEL, Campbell, Clark, Geary, Joyce, Heath

I am not going anywhere ....pal.

You just highlighted your own glaring short coming - people/clubs have differing opinions on players games. Its concerning how blinkered your processing becomes, when our players are mentioned in any manner other than glowing terms. Or should we just add "dont mention the war".

[saynta]

The write up from the Sandringham FC site -

Final Score: Sandringham 9.15.69 defeated Carlton 9.11.65

Goals: M. Heath (3), M. Allison (2), M. Owens (2), D. Butler, G. Lok
Best: J. Geary, H. Clark, J. McHale, R. Byrnes, T. Milne, M. Heath

It would seem those at Sandringham also have different opinion to others - who would have thought!

Saynta I can't believe you are trying to call me out for making it personal, when thats exactly how you respond to everyone on this forum. You have attacked most at some point with your over the top rhetoric. Now just for the sake of the discussion here is what I wrote regarding Bytel's game in my match write up -

"Bytel got plenty of touches but had zero impact IMO. I think he got tagged today but he struggled against the mobile opposition".

Now please explain how that is anything other than a constructive observation (my opinion)? Its hardly a put down or negative comments as you have labelled it? Again its a common theme with yourself not being able to accept anything other than glowing endorsements of our players. Well believe it or not they can all improve and until we win flag/s (plural) I will continue to have an opinion on how our players play and if you cant cope with that you had best find another outlet other than Saintsational.

""Bytel got plenty of touches but had zero impact IMO. I think he got tagged today but he struggled against the mobile opposition".

Pretty negative imhfo.
BEST
Carlton: Dow, Boyd, Williamson, Setterfield, Trudgeon, Fogarty
Sandringham: Highmore, Byrnes, Lienert, BYTEL, Campbell, Clark, Geary, Joyce, Heath

I am not going anywhere ....pal.

You just highlighted your own glaring short coming - people/clubs have differing opinions on players games. Its concerning how blinkered your processing becomes, when our players are mentioned in any manner other than glowing terms. Or should we just add "dont mention the war".

Yawn

[skeptic]

The write up from the Sandringham FC site -

Final Score: Sandringham 9.15.69 defeated Carlton 9.11.65

Goals: M. Heath (3), M. Allison (2), M. Owens (2), D. Butler, G. Lok
Best: J. Geary, H. Clark, J. McHale, R. Byrnes, T. Milne, M. Heath

It would seem those at Sandringham also have different opinion to others - who would have thought!

Saynta I can't believe you are trying to call me out for making it personal, when thats exactly how you respond to everyone on this forum. You have attacked most at some point with your over the top rhetoric. Now just for the sake of the discussion here is what I wrote regarding Bytel's game in my match write up -

"Bytel got plenty of touches but had zero impact IMO. I think he got tagged today but he struggled against the mobile opposition".

Now please explain how that is anything other than a constructive observation (my opinion)? Its hardly a put down or negative comments as you have labelled it? Again its a common theme with yourself not being able to accept anything other than glowing endorsements of our players. Well believe it or not they can all improve and until we win flag/s (plural) I will continue to have an opinion on how our players play and if you cant cope with that you had best find another outlet other than Saintsational.

""Bytel got plenty of touches but had zero impact IMO. I think he got tagged today but he struggled against the mobile opposition".

Pretty negative imhfo.
BEST
Carlton: Dow, Boyd, Williamson, Setterfield, Trudgeon, Fogarty
Sandringham: Highmore, Byrnes, Lienert, BYTEL, Campbell, Clark, Geary, Joyce, Heath

I am not going anywhere ....pal.

You just highlighted your own glaring short coming - people/clubs have differing opinions on players games. Its concerning how blinkered your processing becomes, when our players are mentioned in any manner other than glowing terms. Or should we just add "dont mention the war".

There’s nothing offensive in your opinion. No personal attack, no writing off… you just shared your observation, good, bad or indifferent.

Heaven help the state of football players if this upsets them and effects their mental health. It’s quite a ridiculous suggestion

I dare say that the feedback they get from the coaches would be far more challenging/confronting. The fact that he wasn’t named in Sandy’s best universally as you’ve pointed out added to the fact that he appears to have fallen behind Windhager, Owens and Byrnes is pbly pretty challenging

The opinion of Impatient Sainter (respectfully) or anyone at SS is unlikely to be in the consciousness of any AFL players.

Fancy this being the social cause that one would want to fight for!!! Don’t give a damn what happened on Christmas Island but negative assessments on SS is crossing the line!!!

More likely then blinkered processes, I would suggest this is more a case of playing the man vs the ball bordering on trolling.

Shame we have to put up with this every second post on a football discussion forum.

[saynta]

Coach was pleased and he had this to say.

"Jack Bytel

26 disposals, 17 contested possessions, eight tackles, five clearances
Jack Bytel had another impressive performance for the Zebras. Photo: Mark Woods, Sandringham Zebras.

"Jack was the same as Ronnie, he had a real purpose and with 17 contested plus eight tackles – it was the most bullish game I’ve seen him have this year. He played with confidence, like he was too good for the VFL level, and he knew it. When he’s playing with that confidence, you can just see how good he is. His running was great from contest-to-contest, and that allows him to either win the ball or put on pressure. He keeps making steps forward."


Now there's someone who I would listen to and whose opinion I value.