Changes for next week

[Scollop]

Why is Paton being targeted? Webster was on Gray against Port & on Pickett on Sunday (even though it was the free against Sinclair that gave away the 3rd).

Get rid of Higgins and we lose our 2nd most effective forward.

With Butler OUT, Sharman should come IN. Lienert should play but for Webster or Battle.

Billings & Byrnes should come in for Wood & Jones. Jones was poor in clearances and disposal efficiency.

As someone else said, Owens deserves another shot but not sure where unless medi-sub. Clark needs another week, much as Jones needed.

I don’t get the Paton hate - Webster was ordinary and found out
It’s like those potting Crouch - I thought he was genuinely one of our better mids, Steele turned it over often and blazed away but gets free pass cause he’s had a great year last year (not the case this year tbh)
Wood just doesn’t do enough - Billing’s to replace
Anyone suggesting we drop Higgins after his best start to an AFL year has rocks in their head
Butler hasn’t done enough regardless of injuries - he’s a small GOAL kicking forward …not just a tackler
Truth is over the next 2 years we need to have done if our kids become quality to replace our “role players” so guys like
Wood
Webster
McKenzie
Lienert
Butler
Need to be under pressure to be replaced for us to go next level and we need an elite midfielder

Crouch was ok for the whole game and his last quarter was very good but by half way through the second quarter, he'd picked up 20 odd possessions and we were 47 points down!! People who look at the stat sheet before voting don't have a feel for the game. I think Hill, Howard, Sincs, Membrey, and Steele and another half dozen players helped keep us competitive in that middle period and they contributed more than Crouch. I reckon you haven't bothered watching the replay

In 2 years time we also should be looking to replace some of our so called 'first 22'.

Seb Ross and Brad Crouch should be competing for a spot imo with players like Bytel, Windy and Owens by that stage

I loved your call last year on Billings before the trade period....why shouldn't Billings and maybe even Gresham be competing for a spot in 2 years time with some of our youngsters?

We could also look at Coffield and Clark for trades if they aren't living up to expectations considering they were top 10 draft picks like Billings

Just on Butler...Isn't it obvious why his form dropped off?

I don't understand why we needed to recruit Higgins when we already had Butler, Gresham, Billings and Long who can ALL play the small forward role.

When one extra small comes in there will always be a drop off in form for the other smalls. It's a natural occurrence when you cannibalise opportunities for one forward versus another

Are you suggesting Crouch should be dropped?

How would I make decisions like that without all the necessary facts? I don’t have definitive answers because I’m a fan who only sees thing form a far. I also don’t know how he is recovering and I don’t know how our other players have pulled up from the match.

Ratten and the selection committee seem to reward effort and there is no doubt Crouch was one of the hardest workers on the day.

The club obviously believed we were in a window to be contenders, so we chased him. We recruited him as a senior player with a big body who can withstand the rigours of a long season, but basically he has been a substitute for Dunstan ( and perhaps a slight upgrade in some people’s eyes).

Answer me this;

What does it say when you have a player with close to 20 of his 27 possessions at a stage in the game when his team is 47 points down?

I reckon if Steele or Sinclair or Hill had 20 possessions by that stage we would have been in the game

[Yorkeys]

or week after if we lose.

Guys that might have used most of their credits
Butler clearly, but injured;
Wood?
Webster?
Jones?
Byrnes, Highmore & Bytel are killing it in VFL, Clark soon come. Owens. Sharman.
A few need to nail their current opportunities or be gonski.
Heat will be right on if we bugger up this next one. Selectors will feel it too.

[Vortex]

Answer me this;

What does it say when you have a player with close to 20 of his 27 possessions at a stage in the game when his team is 47 points down?

I reckon if Steele or Sinclair or Hill had 20 possessions by that stage we would have been in the game

To beat a dynasty midfield I'd suggest you need to have atleast 1 elite midfielder, possibly 2. Then you need A grade output from the next 2 best midfielders. Then you need B grade to A grade output from the next 4 best midfielders.

Can I answer your question with a question: if the next 4 to 6 best midfielders in our side after Crouch had of given 4 quarters of thier best output possible, could we have beaten their midfield?

[SunnyErnie]

or week after if we lose.

Guys that might have used most of their credits
Butler clearly, but injured;
Wood?
Webster?
Jones?
Byrnes, Highmore & Bytel are killing it in VFL, Clark soon come. Owens. Sharman.
A few need to nail their current opportunities or be gonski.
Heat will be right on if we bugger up this next one. Selectors will feel it too.

The selectors have to find a way to get Sharman and Highmore in this week IMHO.

This is how I would do it.

Out
Butler - injured
Webster omitted

In
Sharman
Highmore

[Scollop]

Answer me this;

What does it say when you have a player with close to 20 of his 27 possessions at a stage in the game when his team is 47 points down?

I reckon if Steele or Sinclair or Hill had 20 possessions by that stage we would have been in the game

To beat a dynasty midfield I'd suggest you need to have atleast 1 elite midfielder, possibly 2. Then you need A grade output from the next 2 best midfielders. Then you need B grade to A grade output from the next 4 best midfielders.

Can I answer your question with a question: if the next 4 to 6 best midfielders in our side after Crouch had of given 4 quarters of thier best output possible, could we have beaten their midfield?

Hypotheticals are great aren’t they?

So much fun

Let’s deal with what actually happened in the game. I reckon Steele was probably our most efficient and competent midfielder for most of the match. Jack Steele was a beast in that last quarter and this was after getting smashed in the face. Crouch worked hard and tackled hard and his output was fair for the whole game but I’ve criticised him because his disposal efficiency in that first half would have been around 40% imo.

Sincs is finding it harder to rack up the numbers he was getting because I think oppo teams are starting to put time into him. He went kick chasing the way Seb used to. Seb was standard Seb - nothing flash. Windy is a kid and he only came on for a quarter (nice goal though )

If you’re saying Crouch gave great effort, well big deal. That’s like when the coach gave Missy votes for missing the big sticks. The coach also said Gresh went into the match with a hip complaint. I reckon both Ryder and Marshall have had interrupted seasons and it’s showing. Paddy and Rowan were not as effective in that first half and what I love about Gawn and Jackson is that after the tap outs they become really useful midfielders.

If Brad Couch is our bull who takes on their dynasty midfield in the clinches, then he has to do his job competently rather than the way he did. His disposals were below the standard. He had been given the role of extractor. He missed his targets and he dribbled the ball out of clearances when it was by foot. Maybe Bytel or some other player could have done the job better…who knows…but that’s hypothetical

[DJ Higgins]

Why the massive changes all of a sudden. We lost in cairns due to terrible shots at goal in awful co and we got beaten by the reigning premiers, mainly in the first half, second half we worked them out somewhat. Butler goes out if injured and maybe rest a young kid if he needs a break or a players with a niggle.

I am confident about this week and expect to win comfortably

[shanegrambeau]

Why the massive changes all of a sudden. We lost in cairns due to terrible shots at goal in awful co and we got beaten by the reigning premiers, mainly in the first half, second half we worked them out somewhat. Butler goes out if injured and maybe rest a young kid if he needs a break or a players with a niggle.

I am confident about this week and expect to win comfortably

One reason for change is that the opposition (Geelong) will have studied us against Melbourne.

Changing the cards makes for a new and untested proposition for their strategy makers.

Our vulnerabilities were exposed.

Now, suddenly if Sharman and Highmore are there...they have something extra to think about.

THey already know ..or think they know.. what we are gonna try to do.

Of course injury can intervene..CoVID etc.,

Another good reason, is to keep all team members motivated and on their toes.

[DJ Higgins]

Why the massive changes all of a sudden. We lost in cairns due to terrible shots at goal in awful co and we got beaten by the reigning premiers, mainly in the first half, second half we worked them out somewhat. Butler goes out if injured and maybe rest a young kid if he needs a break or a players with a niggle.

I am confident about this week and expect to win comfortably

One reason for change is that the opposition (Geelong) will have studied us against Melbourne.

Changing the cards makes for a new and untested proposition for their strategy makers.

Our vulnerabilities were exposed.

Now, suddenly if Sharman and Highmore are there...they have something extra to think about.

THey already know ..or think they know.. what we are gonna try to do.

Of course injury can intervene..CoVID etc.,

Another good reason, is to keep all team members motivated and on their toes.

I hear what you are saying but I am not a big believer of dropping players after a bad game. We all have off days. Plus Dees are good, plain and simple
I think that players can be managed/rested if its required and its good to pump guys into young players but its not a bad idea to give them a breather at VFL. plus there should be reward for effort from VFL
But the team has been playing pretty well up until recent so the odd change is fine but not four like some people have suggested

And anyone who wants Sharman back in the team hasn't seen him play this year. He maybe one of those players that excels if those around him are great but at VFL level he isn't a stand out. Not yet anyway.

[Vortex]

Answer me this;

What does it say when you have a player with close to 20 of his 27 possessions at a stage in the game when his team is 47 points down?

I reckon if Steele or Sinclair or Hill had 20 possessions by that stage we would have been in the game

To beat a dynasty midfield I'd suggest you need to have atleast 1 elite midfielder, possibly 2. Then you need A grade output from the next 2 best midfielders. Then you need B grade to A grade output from the next 4 best midfielders.

Can I answer your question with a question: if the next 4 to 6 best midfielders in our side after Crouch had of given 4 quarters of thier best output possible, could we have beaten their midfield?

Hypotheticals are great aren’t they?

So much fun

Let’s deal with what actually happened in the game. I reckon Steele was probably our most efficient and competent midfielder for most of the match. Jack Steele was a beast in that last quarter and this was after getting smashed in the face. Crouch worked hard and tackled hard and his output was fair for the whole game but I’ve criticised him because his disposal efficiency in that first half would have been around 40% imo.

Sincs is finding it harder to rack up the numbers he was getting because I think oppo teams are starting to put time into him. He went kick chasing the way Seb used to. Seb was standard Seb - nothing flash. Windy is a kid and he only came on for a quarter (nice goal though )

If you’re saying Crouch gave great effort, well big deal. That’s like when the coach gave Missy votes for missing the big sticks. The coach also said Gresh went into the match with a hip complaint. I reckon both Ryder and Marshall have had interrupted seasons and it’s showing. Paddy and Rowan were not as effective in that first half and what I love about Gawn and Jackson is that after the tap outs they become really useful midfielders.

If Brad Couch is our bull who takes on their dynasty midfield in the clinches, then he has to do his job competently rather than the way he did. His disposals were below the standard. He had been given the role of extractor. He missed his targets and he dribbled the ball out of clearances when it was by foot. Maybe Bytel or some other player could have done the job better…who knows…but that’s hypothetical

I think we might be in agreement somewhat, our midfield is nowhere near it yet but I wouldn't be dropping Couch for Bytel, well not at least until Bytel can prove he can play AFL grade footy.

[Scollop]

Answer me this;

What does it say when you have a player with close to 20 of his 27 possessions at a stage in the game when his team is 47 points down?

I reckon if Steele or Sinclair or Hill had 20 possessions by that stage we would have been in the game

To beat a dynasty midfield I'd suggest you need to have atleast 1 elite midfielder, possibly 2. Then you need A grade output from the next 2 best midfielders. Then you need B grade to A grade output from the next 4 best midfielders.

Can I answer your question with a question: if the next 4 to 6 best midfielders in our side after Crouch had of given 4 quarters of thier best output possible, could we have beaten their midfield?

Hypotheticals are great aren’t they?

So much fun

Let’s deal with what actually happened in the game. I reckon Steele was probably our most efficient and competent midfielder for most of the match. Jack Steele was a beast in that last quarter and this was after getting smashed in the face. Crouch worked hard and tackled hard and his output was fair for the whole game but I’ve criticised him because his disposal efficiency in that first half would have been around 40% imo.

Sincs is finding it harder to rack up the numbers he was getting because I think oppo teams are starting to put time into him. He went kick chasing the way Seb used to. Seb was standard Seb - nothing flash. Windy is a kid and he only came on for a quarter (nice goal though )

If you’re saying Crouch gave great effort, well big deal. That’s like when the coach gave Missy votes for missing the big sticks. The coach also said Gresh went into the match with a hip complaint. I reckon both Ryder and Marshall have had interrupted seasons and it’s showing. Paddy and Rowan were not as effective in that first half and what I love about Gawn and Jackson is that after the tap outs they become really useful midfielders.

If Brad Couch is our bull who takes on their dynasty midfield in the clinches, then he has to do his job competently rather than the way he did. His disposals were below the standard. He had been given the role of extractor. He missed his targets and he dribbled the ball out of clearances when it was by foot. Maybe Bytel or some other player could have done the job better…who knows…but that’s hypothetical

I think we might be in agreement somewhat, our midfield is nowhere near it yet but I wouldn't be dropping Couch for Bytel, well not at least until Bytel can prove he can play AFL grade footy.

That’s fine, but if it’s Crouch’s job to extract he must be better. Remember, this wasn’t Cairns on a slippery track so he has to be cleaner and he didn’t need to just try and kick it blindly. He has to look to share the footy rather than just get a clearance for the sake of a possession.

Also…on the topic of ‘sharing’ the footy, there were a few people on the forum here who were critical of Ratten and the game plan. Maybe it was some of our players who just didn’t execute and some of them don’t make the best decisions for the sake of the team.

Last night on Footy Classified, Ross Lyon and Matthew Lloyd were showing parts of our game in that first half against Melbourne. One of the passages of play they highlighted involved Ben Long. A couple of times our players ignored his run and positioning when he was clear at half back.

Our players seem to avoid passing the footy to Ben when he has made space and is running past a player who has taken a mark. The comment from Ross Lyon was; “that handball must be given. They didn’t take the overlap run. You break the lines of defence and you’re away. It gives you a chance to score”. That is not team footy

[takeaway]

Answer me this;

What does it say when you have a player with close to 20 of his 27 possessions at a stage in the game when his team is 47 points down?

I reckon if Steele or Sinclair or Hill had 20 possessions by that stage we would have been in the game

To beat a dynasty midfield I'd suggest you need to have atleast 1 elite midfielder, possibly 2. Then you need A grade output from the next 2 best midfielders. Then you need B grade to A grade output from the next 4 best midfielders.

Can I answer your question with a question: if the next 4 to 6 best midfielders in our side after Crouch had of given 4 quarters of thier best output possible, could we have beaten their midfield?

Hypotheticals are great aren’t they?

So much fun

Let’s deal with what actually happened in the game. I reckon Steele was probably our most efficient and competent midfielder for most of the match. Jack Steele was a beast in that last quarter and this was after getting smashed in the face. Crouch worked hard and tackled hard and his output was fair for the whole game but I’ve criticised him because his disposal efficiency in that first half would have been around 40% imo.

Sincs is finding it harder to rack up the numbers he was getting because I think oppo teams are starting to put time into him. He went kick chasing the way Seb used to. Seb was standard Seb - nothing flash. Windy is a kid and he only came on for a quarter (nice goal though )

If you’re saying Crouch gave great effort, well big deal. That’s like when the coach gave Missy votes for missing the big sticks. The coach also said Gresh went into the match with a hip complaint. I reckon both Ryder and Marshall have had interrupted seasons and it’s showing. Paddy and Rowan were not as effective in that first half and what I love about Gawn and Jackson is that after the tap outs they become really useful midfielders.

If Brad Couch is our bull who takes on their dynasty midfield in the clinches, then he has to do his job competently rather than the way he did. His disposals were below the standard. He had been given the role of extractor. He missed his targets and he dribbled the ball out of clearances when it was by foot. Maybe Bytel or some other player could have done the job better…who knows…but that’s hypothetical

I think we might be in agreement somewhat, our midfield is nowhere near it yet but I wouldn't be dropping Couch for Bytel, well not at least until Bytel can prove he can play AFL grade footy.

That’s fine, but if it’s Crouch’s job to extract he must be better. Remember, this wasn’t Cairns on a slippery track so he has to be cleaner and he didn’t need to just try and kick it blindly. He has to look to share the footy rather than just get a clearance for the sake of a possession.

Also…on the topic of ‘sharing’ the footy, there were a few people on the forum here who were critical of Ratten and the game plan. Maybe it was some of our players who just didn’t execute and some of them don’t make the best decisions for the sake of the team.

Last night on Footy Classified, Ross Lyon and Matthew Lloyd were showing parts of our game in that first half against Melbourne. One of the passages of play they highlighted involved Ben Long. A couple of times our players ignored his run and positioning when he was clear at half back.

Our players seem to avoid passing the footy to Ben when he has made space and is running past a player who has taken a mark. The comment from Ross Lyon was; “that handball must be given. They didn’t take the overlap run. You break the lines of defence and you’re away. It gives you a chance to score”. That is not team footy

I see no problems with Crouch, reckon his extraction efficiency is excellent and usually gets it to advantage. He's consistently in the best players. Obviously, in the heat of the congested space, things don't always work out. Same thing also happens to Steele, and any other inside mid. Steele is obviously our best mid, but I didn't think his disposal last week was quite as efficient as normal. The disposal efficiency figures bear that out - Steel 65%, Crouch 75%. In my view Steele is a tad down this year, maybe due to increased support around him, or maybe he just hasn't hit top form yet.

Good to see you got another "get it to Longy" in your post. I have noticed that Ben has been ignored when clear on occasions. They seem to have no hesitation getting it to Hill, Sinclair, NWM, even Paton and Webster when they are clear, but sometimes take other options when they look up and see Longy. I wonder why? Perhaps he hasn't gained the full confidence of his teammates.

[spert]

Why the massive changes all of a sudden. We lost in cairns due to terrible shots at goal in awful co and we got beaten by the reigning premiers, mainly in the first half, second half we worked them out somewhat. Butler goes out if injured and maybe rest a young kid if he needs a break or a players with a niggle.

I am confident about this week and expect to win comfortably

We lost in Cairns to an ordinary team who caught up and beat us- goal kicking was just one factor. We gave the best team in the comp, a multi goal start due to being overly defensive and lost the game there. Not good enough- you don't sit on your hands with selection.

[Scollop]

Answer me this;

What does it say when you have a player with close to 20 of his 27 possessions at a stage in the game when his team is 47 points down?

I reckon if Steele or Sinclair or Hill had 20 possessions by that stage we would have been in the game

To beat a dynasty midfield I'd suggest you need to have atleast 1 elite midfielder, possibly 2. Then you need A grade output from the next 2 best midfielders. Then you need B grade to A grade output from the next 4 best midfielders.

Can I answer your question with a question: if the next 4 to 6 best midfielders in our side after Crouch had of given 4 quarters of thier best output possible, could we have beaten their midfield?

Hypotheticals are great aren’t they?

So much fun

Let’s deal with what actually happened in the game. I reckon Steele was probably our most efficient and competent midfielder for most of the match. Jack Steele was a beast in that last quarter and this was after getting smashed in the face. Crouch worked hard and tackled hard and his output was fair for the whole game but I’ve criticised him because his disposal efficiency in that first half would have been around 40% imo.

Sincs is finding it harder to rack up the numbers he was getting because I think oppo teams are starting to put time into him. He went kick chasing the way Seb used to. Seb was standard Seb - nothing flash. Windy is a kid and he only came on for a quarter (nice goal though )

If you’re saying Crouch gave great effort, well big deal. That’s like when the coach gave Missy votes for missing the big sticks. The coach also said Gresh went into the match with a hip complaint. I reckon both Ryder and Marshall have had interrupted seasons and it’s showing. Paddy and Rowan were not as effective in that first half and what I love about Gawn and Jackson is that after the tap outs they become really useful midfielders.

If Brad Couch is our bull who takes on their dynasty midfield in the clinches, then he has to do his job competently rather than the way he did. His disposals were below the standard. He had been given the role of extractor. He missed his targets and he dribbled the ball out of clearances when it was by foot. Maybe Bytel or some other player could have done the job better…who knows…but that’s hypothetical

I think we might be in agreement somewhat, our midfield is nowhere near it yet but I wouldn't be dropping Couch for Bytel, well not at least until Bytel can prove he can play AFL grade footy.

That’s fine, but if it’s Crouch’s job to extract he must be better. Remember, this wasn’t Cairns on a slippery track so he has to be cleaner and he didn’t need to just try and kick it blindly. He has to look to share the footy rather than just get a clearance for the sake of a possession.

Also…on the topic of ‘sharing’ the footy, there were a few people on the forum here who were critical of Ratten and the game plan. Maybe it was some of our players who just didn’t execute and some of them don’t make the best decisions for the sake of the team.

Last night on Footy Classified, Ross Lyon and Matthew Lloyd were showing parts of our game in that first half against Melbourne. One of the passages of play they highlighted involved Ben Long. A couple of times our players ignored his run and positioning when he was clear at half back.

Our players seem to avoid passing the footy to Ben when he has made space and is running past a player who has taken a mark. The comment from Ross Lyon was; “that handball must be given. They didn’t take the overlap run. You break the lines of defence and you’re away. It gives you a chance to score”. That is not team footy

I see no problems with Crouch, reckon his extraction efficiency is excellent and usually gets it to advantage. He's consistently in the best players. Obviously, in the heat of the congested space, things don't always work out. Same thing also happens to Steele, and any other inside mid. Steele is obviously our best mid, but I didn't think his disposal last week was quite as efficient as normal. The disposal efficiency figures bear that out - Steel 65%, Crouch 75%. In my view Steele is a tad down this year, maybe due to increased support around him, or maybe he just hasn't hit top form yet.

Good to see you got another "get it to Longy" in your post. I have noticed that Ben has been ignored when clear on occasions. They seem to have no hesitation getting it to Hill, Sinclair, NWM, even Paton and Webster when they are clear, but sometimes take other options when they look up and see Longy. I wonder why? Perhaps he hasn't gained the full confidence of his teammates.

Good to see you still making excuses for everyone, be it a player or the club or the list manager, or Lethlean. I didn't say Crouch is having a poor year.

I defy anyone with any footy nous to watch the first half repaly against Melbourne and tell me that Crouch was effective when by that stage he's had 20 disposal stats. He had 15 handballs in total for the match so that helps with your disposal efficiency. 4 of them were from him taking the footy and playing on after we were awarded free kicks, so he didn't work hard to win the footy in those situations. Steele was the better player on the day as was Hill and Howard in my opinion

I agree that Jack hasn't risen to the same level of last year. Here's Steele versus Crouch for this year

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... 1=S&fid2=S

As far as your comments on Long are concerned. If the coach and the selection committee pick a player in the side then that's the end of the conversation!! If the coaches have confidence, then ALL our players need to see is the Red White and Black jumper and nothing else!! No wonder we can't get a team to do the disciplined thing and do the team thing if they are picking and choosing who to give it to?

[Vortex]

Yeah but are you really suggesting Crouch should be dropped for Bytel?

[Scollop]

No. I am saying if he keeps wasting the footy he should be dropped

Do the team thing. Cop the hit or at least try and clear congestion with some run

That obvioulsy goes for all our players. Just don't kick the fkn footy to no one and don't get a possession for the sake of making your stats look good

I get annoyed when people look at the stats and conclude he 'must have been' the best player for us. Where's the eye test as you so rightly point out?

I did mention Bytel because he is considered an inside mid isn't he, but that doesn't mean he walks in and replaces Crouch based on Crouch's game against Melbourne. I've said in other posts that I thought Brad was good overall, but I just don't think he was the best player (or most important or most efective) on the day for our team

[takeaway]

Answer me this;

What does it say when you have a player with close to 20 of his 27 possessions at a stage in the game when his team is 47 points down?

I reckon if Steele or Sinclair or Hill had 20 possessions by that stage we would have been in the game

To beat a dynasty midfield I'd suggest you need to have atleast 1 elite midfielder, possibly 2. Then you need A grade output from the next 2 best midfielders. Then you need B grade to A grade output from the next 4 best midfielders.

Can I answer your question with a question: if the next 4 to 6 best midfielders in our side after Crouch had of given 4 quarters of thier best output possible, could we have beaten their midfield?

Hypotheticals are great aren’t they?

So much fun

Let’s deal with what actually happened in the game. I reckon Steele was probably our most efficient and competent midfielder for most of the match. Jack Steele was a beast in that last quarter and this was after getting smashed in the face. Crouch worked hard and tackled hard and his output was fair for the whole game but I’ve criticised him because his disposal efficiency in that first half would have been around 40% imo.

Sincs is finding it harder to rack up the numbers he was getting because I think oppo teams are starting to put time into him. He went kick chasing the way Seb used to. Seb was standard Seb - nothing flash. Windy is a kid and he only came on for a quarter (nice goal though )

If you’re saying Crouch gave great effort, well big deal. That’s like when the coach gave Missy votes for missing the big sticks. The coach also said Gresh went into the match with a hip complaint. I reckon both Ryder and Marshall have had interrupted seasons and it’s showing. Paddy and Rowan were not as effective in that first half and what I love about Gawn and Jackson is that after the tap outs they become really useful midfielders.

If Brad Couch is our bull who takes on their dynasty midfield in the clinches, then he has to do his job competently rather than the way he did. His disposals were below the standard. He had been given the role of extractor. He missed his targets and he dribbled the ball out of clearances when it was by foot. Maybe Bytel or some other player could have done the job better…who knows…but that’s hypothetical

I think we might be in agreement somewhat, our midfield is nowhere near it yet but I wouldn't be dropping Couch for Bytel, well not at least until Bytel can prove he can play AFL grade footy.

That’s fine, but if it’s Crouch’s job to extract he must be better. Remember, this wasn’t Cairns on a slippery track so he has to be cleaner and he didn’t need to just try and kick it blindly. He has to look to share the footy rather than just get a clearance for the sake of a possession.

Also…on the topic of ‘sharing’ the footy, there were a few people on the forum here who were critical of Ratten and the game plan. Maybe it was some of our players who just didn’t execute and some of them don’t make the best decisions for the sake of the team.

Last night on Footy Classified, Ross Lyon and Matthew Lloyd were showing parts of our game in that first half against Melbourne. One of the passages of play they highlighted involved Ben Long. A couple of times our players ignored his run and positioning when he was clear at half back.

Our players seem to avoid passing the footy to Ben when he has made space and is running past a player who has taken a mark. The comment from Ross Lyon was; “that handball must be given. They didn’t take the overlap run. You break the lines of defence and you’re away. It gives you a chance to score”. That is not team footy

I see no problems with Crouch, reckon his extraction efficiency is excellent and usually gets it to advantage. He's consistently in the best players. Obviously, in the heat of the congested space, things don't always work out. Same thing also happens to Steele, and any other inside mid. Steele is obviously our best mid, but I didn't think his disposal last week was quite as efficient as normal. The disposal efficiency figures bear that out - Steel 65%, Crouch 75%. In my view Steele is a tad down this year, maybe due to increased support around him, or maybe he just hasn't hit top form yet.

Good to see you got another "get it to Longy" in your post. I have noticed that Ben has been ignored when clear on occasions. They seem to have no hesitation getting it to Hill, Sinclair, NWM, even Paton and Webster when they are clear, but sometimes take other options when they look up and see Longy. I wonder why? Perhaps he hasn't gained the full confidence of his teammates.

Good to see you still making excuses for everyone, be it a player or the club or the list manager, or Lethlean. I didn't say Crouch is having a poor year.

I defy anyone with any footy nous to watch the first half repaly against Melbourne and tell me that Crouch was effective when by that stage he's had 20 disposal stats. He had 15 handballs in total for the match so that helps with your disposal efficiency. 4 of them were from him taking the footy and playing on after we were awarded free kicks, so he didn't work hard to win the footy in those situations. Steele was the better player on the day as was Hill and Howard in my opinion

I agree that Jack hasn't risen to the same level of last year. Here's Steele versus Crouch for this year

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... 1=S&fid2=S

As far as your comments on Long are concerned. If the coach and the selection committee pick a player in the side then that's the end of the conversation!! If the coaches have confidence, then ALL our players need to see is the Red White and Black jumper and nothing else!! No wonder we can't get a team to do the disciplined thing and do the team thing if they are picking and choosing who to give it to?

Crouch was one of our better players in the first half, and for the whole game. Nothing wrong with his DE. No one is saying though that he is better than Steele.

As for Long, the proof is in the pudding, he is not given the ball at times when he is clear. Happens to every player but more often to Long imo. He needs to work a bit more on his positioning and pick up a few more kicks himself. Doing OK at the moment imo, but if we get a full list with Billings, Clark, etc back he might be on the outer.

[Vortex]

No. I am saying if he keeps wasting the footy he should be dropped

Do the team thing. Cop the hit or at least try and clear congestion with some run

That obvioulsy goes for all our players. Just don't kick the fkn footy to no one and don't get a possession for the sake of making your stats look good

I get annoyed when people look at the stats and conclude he 'must have been' the best player for us. Where's the eye test as you so rightly point out?

I did mention Bytel because he is considered an inside mid isn't he, but that doesn't mean he walks in and replaces Crouch based on Crouch's game against Melbourne. I've said in other posts that I thought Brad was good overall, but I just don't think he was the best player (or most important or most efective) on the day for our team

Ok now I understand. I think the reality of our list being still short of some depth and quality will rear its head against the contenders. This week week will be fascinating against the Cats in the context of where our list is at. The Freo victory against the Cats will be a good measure against what result we achieve this weekend. And am I right in saying we now have a relatively healthy list to select from?

[Vortex]

No. I am saying if he keeps wasting the footy he should be dropped

Do the team thing. Cop the hit or at least try and clear congestion with some run

That obvioulsy goes for all our players. Just don't kick the fkn footy to no one and don't get a possession for the sake of making your stats look good

I get annoyed when people look at the stats and conclude he 'must have been' the best player for us. Where's the eye test as you so rightly point out?

I did mention Bytel because he is considered an inside mid isn't he, but that doesn't mean he walks in and replaces Crouch based on Crouch's game against Melbourne. I've said in other posts that I thought Brad was good overall, but I just don't think he was the best player (or most important or most efective) on the day for our team

Ok now I understand. I think the reality of our list being still short of some depth and quality will rear its head against the contenders. This week week will be fascinating against the Cats in the context of where our list is at. The Freo victory against the Cats will be a good measure against the result we achieve this weekend. And am I right in saying we now have a relatively healthy list to select from?

[Ghost Like]

I've listened to both arguments in relation to Crouch's game. I need to know if it wasn't Crouch getting his hands on the footy were we guaranteed a bloke wearing RW&B would have got it?

I think our "other mids" are getting off pretty lightly if Crouch is getting criticised for getting so much ball but not disposing of it in the best fashion. Surely Crouch wasn't our only player trying to exit D50 & surely he wasn't our only player kicking the ball inside F50???

[Scollop]

As for Long, the proof is in the pudding, he is not given the ball at times when he is clear. Happens to every player but more often to Long imo. He needs to work a bit more on his positioning and pick up a few more kicks himself. Doing OK at the moment imo, but if we get a full list with Billings, Clark, etc back he might be on the outer.

Doing Ok? The guy is one of the most versatile in the team. He’s been given jobs to stay close to some of the opposition best small forwards. You don’t go kick chasing when your main role is to defend in the backline.

Here’s some facts for you to ponder…Or should I say ‘some pudding’ to swallow…

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... 1=S&fid2=S

[takeaway]

As for Long, the proof is in the pudding, he is not given the ball at times when he is clear. Happens to every player but more often to Long imo. He needs to work a bit more on his positioning and pick up a few more kicks himself. Doing OK at the moment imo, but if we get a full list with Billings, Clark, etc back he might be on the outer.

Doing Ok? The guy is one of the most versatile in the team. He’s been given jobs to stay close to some of the opposition best small forwards. You don’t go kick chasing when your main role is to defend in the backline.

Here’s some facts for you to ponder…Or should I say ‘some pudding’ to swallow…

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... 1=S&fid2=S

Be interested to know what jobs Long has been given "on the opposition best small forwards". Who? The first ones given those jobs are Webster and Paton, simply because they are better defensively than Long. It is true Pickett wrong sided Webster a couple of times, (once Webster was blocked by Howard), but Pickett's done that to a lot of backs. They didn't switch Long onto Pickett did they?

I repeat Benny's doing OK, but would be one of the last picked in the 22.

[Impatient Sainter]

I've listened to both arguments in relation to Crouch's game. I need to know if it wasn't Crouch getting his hands on the footy were we guaranteed a bloke wearing RW&B would have got it?

I think our "other mids" are getting off pretty lightly if Crouch is getting criticised for getting so much ball but not disposing of it in the best fashion. Surely Crouch wasn't our only player trying to exit D50 & surely he wasn't our only player kicking the ball inside F50???

Gresham in particular was really poor and must be getting some consideration questions at team selection IMO.

[Scollop]

As for Long, the proof is in the pudding, he is not given the ball at times when he is clear. Happens to every player but more often to Long imo. He needs to work a bit more on his positioning and pick up a few more kicks himself. Doing OK at the moment imo, but if we get a full list with Billings, Clark, etc back he might be on the outer.

Doing Ok? The guy is one of the most versatile in the team. He’s been given jobs to stay close to some of the opposition best small forwards. You don’t go kick chasing when your main role is to defend in the backline.

Here’s some facts for you to ponder…Or should I say ‘some pudding’ to swallow…

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... 1=S&fid2=S

Be interested to know what jobs Long has been given "on the opposition best small forwards". Who? The first ones given those jobs are Webster and Paton, simply because they are better defensively than Long. It is true Pickett wrong sided Webster a couple of times, (once Webster was blocked by Howard), but Pickett's done that to a lot of backs. They didn't switch Long onto Pickett did they?

I repeat Benny's doing OK, but would be one of the last picked in the 22.

The ‘who’ question would be easy for you to answer if you followed Ben Long as closely as I do. He went to Rankine I thing against Gold Coast after playing as a forward for his first 2 games back in the seniors in 2022 and the week following he lined up on Toby Greene

Maybe he wasn’t switched onto Pickett because he is supposed to be an attacking option out of our defence, similar to the way Clark, Hill and now Sinclair are used. He did play as an attacking half black flanker in 2020 when we made finals

It took a fresh set of eyes in Brett Ratten to switch him from the small forward role and plonk him at half back. And once again, I don’t need to remind you why….I reckon he’s one of the best decision makers with ball in hand and one of the best kicks we have in our team.

You say he’s one of the last picked and you are probably right. He created the situation for himself by some undisciplined acts and he was used as a scapegoat for our poor results in 2021. I think it’s time they got over it and showed more confidence in the kid. We have a talent that needs to be utilised. It means our players and our leaders should be trying to create a team culture rather than playing favourites

[Ghost Like]

Scollop, Greene started the game in the middle then went forward and was picked up by Paton. With 19:10 left in the first Qtr, the camera pans on to Greene with Paton.

With 18:30 to go in the first Qtr against GCS, Paton is seen jogging back to the goal square with Rankine. Long appears to have picked up Holman at the beginning of that match.

It appears Long did play back but I think for his pressure and tackling. I agree if he can be used more by his team mates and create the transition from D50 to F50, especially now Hill is not playing HBF, he'll be invaluable and close to undroppable if he's hitting his targets.

[takeaway]

Scollop, Greene started the game in the middle then went forward and was picked up by Paton. With 19:10 left in the first Qtr, the camera pans on to Greene with Paton.

With 18:30 to go in the first Qtr against GCS, Paton is seen jogging back to the goal square with Rankine. Long appears to have picked up Holman at the beginning of that match.

It appears Long did play back but I think for his pressure and tackling. I agree if he can be used more by his team mates and create the transition from D50 to F50, especially now Hill is not playing HBF, he'll be invaluable and close to undroppable if he's hitting his targets.

Agree. The first options for picking up the best small forwards are Webster and Paton. Not sure what angle Scollop watches the matches from.

As I said, Long needs to get involved more for teammates to use him. Very good at pressure and tackling, but needs to get the ball more on his own merit and deliver well. Then they might play through him more.