Cairns!!

[CURLY]

No idea why all clubs don’t play up there and pocket coin.

Conditions are fantastic the players can play their brand of footy. Skills aren’t effected at all.

Surely games like this will be fought over.

[Vortex]

No idea why all clubs don’t play up there and pocket coin.

Conditions are fantastic the players can play their brand of footy. Skills aren’t effected at all.

Surely games like this will be fought over.

The Dogs played in Cairns 4 years in a row and won every game, one of them was in their premiership year. The difference was the games were played in July and August though. Can you remember any complaints coming from their club, serious question. It would be interesting to know why the Dogs stopped playing games in Cairns, was it becaue they got their finances in order and didn't need the money?

[shanegrambeau]

Richmond were so appalled by it they refused to continue, pulling out of their contract.

Won three premierships.

[bigcarl]

The club is, what, $10 mil in debt? I get the reason we feel the need to sell games.

Problem is, on-field success ultimately leads to a better financial position and giving away home advantage doesn’t help on-field success. It’s a catch 22.

Don’t know what the answer is. A small levy on members perhaps, but some are stretched paying what they do.

I really hope Cairns wasn’t a momentum killer after a near-perfect start to the season. We need to get back on the win-train, hopefully as early as Sunday.

[Moods]

I'm a bit sick of ppl whining about the club selling games. Maybe if our supporters got along to games we'd get more than 20k when we play? Playing pies Rd 1 and we only had 40k there. Playing tiges we only had a tad over 30k. Back in the mid 2000's playing the pies or tiges we'd be guaranteed a crowd of 45k. Guaranteed! I still recall that game that Kosi got knocked out by Gia against the dogs. I recall 43k ppl at that game. Our reserved seats used to be packed.

What is the club supposed to do? Just watch us wither and die because no one shows up? Last year was a pathetic performance, particularly in the 1st half of the year. The club did it to themselves by going to Seaford and now we have to somehow climb back out of this hole we dug for ourselves. People do realise that majority of other supporters expect either us or North to fold or be moved interstate? I reckon everyone needs to change their attitude and not be so entitled. We are a small club whether we like it or not. Operating in a billion dollar industry with some pretty big heavy weights in WC, Crows, Pies, Bombers. To survive we have to sell the games. Hawks won 3 flags doing it. whiny excuses just don't cut it

[shanegrambeau]

I'm a bit sick of ppl whining about the club selling games. Maybe if our supporters got along to games we'd get more than 20k when we play? Playing pies Rd 1 and we only had 40k there. Playing tiges we only had a tad over 30k. Back in the mid 2000's playing the pies or tiges we'd be guaranteed a crowd of 45k. Guaranteed! I still recall that game that Kosi got knocked out by Gia against the dogs. I recall 43k ppl at that game. Our reserved seats used to be packed.

What is the club supposed to do? Just watch us wither and die because no one shows up? Last year was a pathetic performance, particularly in the 1st half of the year. The club did it to themselves by going to Seaford and now we have to somehow climb back out of this hole we dug for ourselves. People do realise that majority of other supporters expect either us or North to fold or be moved interstate? I reckon everyone needs to change their attitude and not be so entitled. We are a small club whether we like it or not. Operating in a billion dollar industry with some pretty big heavy weights in WC, Crows, Pies, Bombers. To survive we have to sell the games. Hawks won 3 flags doing it. whiny excuses just don't cut it

Agree with you.
(Realize I look like one of those whiners)

But you realize it’s a catch 22

And it is!

We have to be content to be a finalist sometimes.

We simply can’t be competitive for a flag like this.

We have to accept it.

It was a shocker of a result. And it should generate a passionate discussion.

And it is almost nonsense to say we should win if we are good enough. It’s a game of inches at the best of times.

Makes it harder to be fresh for Melbourne too.

[shanegrambeau]

I'm a bit sick of ppl whining about the club selling games. Maybe if our supporters got along to games we'd get more than 20k when we play? Playing pies Rd 1 and we only had 40k there. Playing tiges we only had a tad over 30k. Back in the mid 2000's playing the pies or tiges we'd be guaranteed a crowd of 45k. Guaranteed! I still recall that game that Kosi got knocked out by Gia against the dogs. I recall 43k ppl at that game. Our reserved seats used to be packed.

What is the club supposed to do? Just watch us wither and die because no one shows up? Last year was a pathetic performance, particularly in the 1st half of the year. The club did it to themselves by going to Seaford and now we have to somehow climb back out of this hole we dug for ourselves. People do realise that majority of other supporters expect either us or North to fold or be moved interstate? I reckon everyone needs to change their attitude and not be so entitled. We are a small club whether we like it or not. Operating in a billion dollar industry with some pretty big heavy weights in WC, Crows, Pies, Bombers. To survive we have to sell the games. Hawks won 3 flags doing it. whiny excuses just don't cut it

Agree with you. Except the bit about crowds.
(Realize I look like one of those whiners)

But you realize it’s a catch 22

And it is!

We have to be content to be a finalist sometimes.

We simply can’t be competitive for a flag like this.

We have to accept it.

It was a shocker of a result. And it should generate a passionate discussion.

And it is almost nonsense to say we should win if we are good enough. It’s a game of inches at the best of times.

Makes it harder to be fresh for Melbourne too.

Te Crowds

It is a shame more don’t go, but I think we have to accept that crowds will fall across the comp. over time from now on.

Last time I checked pre pandemic , it was a quick check, but it seemed to me that somewhere between 20-30% of club revenue comes from attendance. And that level was falling.

After the pandemic and with a lucrative broadcasting deal with Amazon or Netflix or Fox again whatever, I’d say that number will be way smaller again.

[spert]

We had a good advantage and then through some lazy football and ordinary coaching, we handed the game to PA..nothing to do with conditions. If we played at Marvel, and were in front, then fell in a heap and lost then what..we don't play any more games there?

[shanegrambeau]

We had a good advantage and then through some lazy football and ordinary coaching, we handed the game to PA..nothing to do with conditions. If we played at Marvel, and were in front, then fell in a heap and lost then what..we don't play any more games there?

We might have won despite being lazy and despite ordinary coaching

The field was leveled so even a minor set back like lazy or coaching mistakes were punishable

That is the point

We could move to Cairns permanently and then become adept at playing in those conditions with lazy coaches and still win!

[Ghost Like]

Sadly that theory of being lazy and inept on our home ground didn't help us get a win in round 1. Not living in Cairns was not the reason we lost.

[shanegrambeau]

Sadly that theory of being lazy and inept on our home ground didn't help us get a win in round 1. Not living in Cairns was not the reason we lost.

Yep.. we would have been more likely to beat Collingwood in Round Obe at Cairns in steamy humid conditions than we were in Melbourne. Even with the selection choices..
Reason?

The playing field gets leveled in Cairns-like conditions…

So it becomes more of a coin flip, a 50-50…

See what I am saying?

We were exposed against Collingwood..there were no slippery balls, no exhausting humidity, trudging spongy ground…no losing 3 kilos.

[spert]

We had a good advantage and then through some lazy football and ordinary coaching, we handed the game to PA..nothing to do with conditions. If we played at Marvel, and were in front, then fell in a heap and lost then what..we don't play any more games there?

We might have won despite being lazy and despite ordinary coaching

The field was leveled so even a minor set back like lazy or coaching mistakes were punishable

That is the point

We could move to Cairns permanently and then become adept at playing in those conditions with lazy coaches and still win!

I might put that to the club for thought.

[saynta]

Sadly that theory of being lazy and inept on our home ground didn't help us get a win in round 1. Not living in Cairns was not the reason we lost.

Yep.. we would have been more likely to beat Collingwood in Round Obe at Cairns in steamy humid conditions than we were in Melbourne. Even with the selection choices..
Reason?

The playing field gets leveled in Cairns-like conditions…

So it becomes more of a coin flip, a 50-50…

See what I am saying?

We were exposed against Collingwood..there were no slippery balls, no exhausting humidity, trudging spongy ground…no losing 3 kilos.

There was bad kicking though. From memory Higgins 0.4 and King 1.3.9. Kick 4 of those and we win.

[D.B.Cooper]

Hi everyone,
Haven’t been here for a while, couple years actually.
Can someone please tell me how many games we’ve sold to Cairns??
Currently we’ve sold two wins, the game last year v Crows & this year v Power!!
Sorry, no amount of money is worth that.
Cheers

All fair points, but do disagree.
To be successful you need to win anywhere, any time and under adverse conditions & not just on the perfect flat track at Docklands.

As Ratts said in his presser:
- don't blame the conditions (Cairns) we had 61 inside fifties for 4:18 and an out on the full.
- we need to be an anywhere team
- we had our opportunities

Interesting that some on this site suggest we are harshly treated by the AFL scheduling.
We sold the game and PA is backing up tonight while we enjoy a further two game break.

[shanegrambeau]

Hi everyone,
Haven’t been here for a while, couple years actually.
Can someone please tell me how many games we’ve sold to Cairns??
Currently we’ve sold two wins, the game last year v Crows & this year v Power!!
Sorry, no amount of money is worth that.
Cheers

All fair points, but do disagree.
To be successful you need to win anywhere, any time and under adverse conditions & not just on the perfect flat track at Docklands.

As Ratts said in his presser:
- don't blame the conditions (Cairns) we had 61 inside fifties for 4:18 and an out on the full.
- we need to be an anywhere team
- we had our opportunities

Interesting that some on this site suggest we are harshly treated by the AFL scheduling.
We sold the game and PA is backing up tonight while we enjoy a further two game break.

Sounds nice but not real.

Check out these gems from July, 2012. Big Footy. Richmond fans, lamenting selling games to Cairns and losing to the Gold Coast. It is all here. Same story. Fans arguing.
Richmond got out of Cairns.
Richmond won three premierships.
..and remember the Suns were crap then...I mean really crap.
Gold Coast were 0-15! going into this game at Richmond.
Saints had beaten them twice, by 92 and 95 points already
And we had lost to Richmond too


Check these guys out. Sound familiar? Ten years ago. will we learn?

#A
"Don't blame the Cairns deal"

I do.
On the 'G' or Etihad we would have beaten the Suns easily.
End of story.

Lame thread.

#B
No excuses. Not good enough. We lost to the Suns who have not won a game all year. Pathetic display of skills and errors. No run or desperation. A must win for a chance to make finals for the first time in over 10 years. If that dosent get you over the line, then nothing will. Dont fool yourselves with the excuse of missing some players. I would cop that against a top 8 team. THIS IS THE WINLESS SUNS. BOTTOM OF THE LADDER. NOTHING TO PLAY FOR. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH.

https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/ ... al.961610/

[meher baba]

Whinging about playing in Cairns is stupid and pointless.

Any of you, if you had been running the club, would have given a big tick to the arrangement at the time it was made. The club needs to bring its books back into balance, and these sorts of fixtures help with that. The way we went in 2021, nobody would have predicted a home game against Port Adelaide to be a big deal: they have very few fans in Melbourne and they looked to be way better than us, so we weren't particularly likely to win. So it all made sense at the time.

And it still did last Saturday IMO. The only bad part of it was that we lost a close game. If we'd stopped them kicking those two behinds at the end, as we should have done, none of you would be complaining now.

And I reckon that, disappointing though it might be to go through all the hassle of playing in Cairns and end up losing by a point, we are still on course to finish the season exactly where I predicted after our Rd 1 loss to Collingwood, when many on here were weeping, wailing and gnashing their teeth. That is, somewhere in the 5-8 range after the regular season, with a reasonable chance of winning our way into the semis and, if we have a good day, perhaps even into an elimination final.

To my way of thinking, we don't yet quite have the personnel to go further than this, although i admit that so far the team is looking a bit more potent than I had expected. So perhaps a miracle is still possible, although I doubt it. My heart wants us to soar on Sunday, but my head says that Melbourne is likely to make a definitive statement about the superiority of their lineup on almost every part of the field.

[Ghost Like]

I hope Ratts' chat to the players this week consisted of a bit more than;

"There, there fellas it's not your fault you lost. The bloody debt ridden club stitched you up. I'm sure the sterner stuff you are made of would have got us over the line at Marvel. We've all forgotten you failed against an undermanned, uninspiring Collingwood but there's no better excuse than Cairns. Let's forget the fact that the 1-5 team you played took two days to get there. Our supporters understand and knowing them they'll give you the Cairns hangover excuse for this week."

The Club, the coaches and the players need to take responsibility for how they play and how they represent us. I agree we need to take the "Anytime, anywhere" mantra to winning.

[Yorkeys]

Eyes wide open face plant.

Conditions in Cairns would have been well known - widely predicted - that it would be a lottery. Brought our skill and speed advantage back to scratch with the opponent. It was a gamble by management of 4 points which might mean the difference between one, two or three finals, against the certainty of a payoff (say $600,000). The gamblers lost the points bet.

Now the question is how much of the payoff will be discounted by our final ladder position. To me it was a foolish gamble, but I'm not privy to how dire our finances are - were we not told recently we were doing ok? Anyway money trumped points.

The silly extreme of the thing is, based on the logic the club used, is we could sell 11 games and make a known profit, but at the same time knowing we would probably never be finalists, of course. Membership would bottom out but there would be admin savings in the Membership Services Dept. We could save on coaches and coach payments, because winning is not a priority. Additional income could be gained by selling the inevitable low draft picks. Probably not sustainable long term but board that endorsed the gamble would have changed as well as senior staff. AFL would not be much more of a joke than now given the situation with North, Suns and West Coast. The business model seems to be able to sustain about three basket cases at any one time.

Do we need to step back and ask what is out core business? winning games or reducing debt (note: you can probably reduce debt by winning, but I doubt you can win by focussing on debt reduction).

What I would have liked is for the club to say to members how do you vote; and if you vote no to Cairns will you support a once only levy on members of $10. I think we would have agreed. I'd pay $10 to help my team play finals and not have to watch that rubbish served up as footy in Cairns. And I don't agree that which was served up advances AFL in FNQ an iota.

The score board on Cairns is 8 points lost, Clark lost for best part of a season, an elimination final, and reputational damage; against - say $1,000,000 in the kitty.

Not sure what a final would be worth, $200,000 cash (possibly x 2 or 3), invaluable player experience, membership lift, sponsorship? Clark out for a season, say $300,000 and one or two games more won. To me it seems bad economics medium/long term even not quantifying the intangibles. I hope wiser heads prevail in future.

So there.

[The_Dud]

Lol

Someone should have told Port they had no chance because of Cairns, the humidity, the conditions, the short week, the vibe, yadda yadda yadda…

I lot of egg on a lot of faces around here, anyone willing to put their hand up??

[Scollop]

Bulldogs definitely suffering because of their fixture!! It’s a shame if they miss finals because they sold out their home game?

Remember…Round 6 they played a home game in Ballarat and LOST by a point!!

I can see the papers and the footy journos getting right into the Western bulldogs administration.

Bulldogs need to scrap home games away from Marvel

Is it time to revisit the fixture for Bulldogs home games?

It’s a shame if they miss finals because they sold out their home game

Port taking advantage of Bulldogs inability to play outdoors!!

The Bulldogs can’t understand why the AFL plays their home games at Ballarat

Bulldogs Are Filthy that they have been tossed around all over the country. The loss to Port Adelaide could be because of the difficult conditions they played in a couple of weeks ago

E.g. Round 5 Marvel win. Round 6 Ballarat home game LOSS to Adelaide. Round 7 home game at Marvel …WIN. Round 8…out on their feet and exhausted…they courageously go down to an in form and rampagingly hot Port Adelaide!!

[shanegrambeau]

Eyes wide open face plant.

Conditions in Cairns would have been well known - widely predicted - that it would be a lottery. Brought our skill and speed advantage back to scratch with the opponent. It was a gamble by management of 4 points which might mean the difference between one, two or three finals, against the certainty of a payoff (say $600,000). The gamblers lost the points bet.

Now the question is how much of the payoff will be discounted by our final ladder position. To me it was a foolish gamble, but I'm not privy to how dire our finances are - were we not told recently we were doing ok? Anyway money trumped points.

The silly extreme of the thing is, based on the logic the club used, is we could sell 11 games and make a known profit, but at the same time knowing we would probably never be finalists, of course. Membership would bottom out but there would be admin savings in the Membership Services Dept. We could save on coaches and coach payments, because winning is not a priority. Additional income could be gained by selling the inevitable low draft picks. Probably not sustainable long term but board that endorsed the gamble would have changed as well as senior staff. AFL would not be much more of a joke than now given the situation with North, Suns and West Coast. The business model seems to be able to sustain about three basket cases at any one time.

Do we need to step back and ask what is out core business? winning games or reducing debt (note: you can probably reduce debt by winning, but I doubt you can win by focussing on debt reduction).

What I would have liked is for the club to say to members how do you vote; and if you vote no to Cairns will you support a once only levy on members of $10. I think we would have agreed. I'd pay $10 to help my team play finals and not have to watch that rubbish served up as footy in Cairns. And I don't agree that which was served up advances AFL in FNQ an iota.

The score board on Cairns is 8 points lost, Clark lost for best part of a season, an elimination final, and reputational damage; against - say $1,000,000 in the kitty.

Not sure what a final would be worth, $200,000 cash (possibly x 2 or 3), invaluable player experience, membership lift, sponsorship? Clark out for a season, say $300,000 and one or two games more won. To me it seems bad economics medium/long term even not quantifying the intangibles. I hope wiser heads prevail in future.

So there.

You articulate the dilemma well.

Catch 22

It’s a total gamble.

If we thrash Melbourne on Sunday, it makes no difference…

We gambled four points, and lost.

We are not here to make a profit.

The AFL pays us as a welfare club.

Like a public transport cooperation that loses money, but can’t (and shouldn’t) be shut down.

It’s subsidized.


And if you think Port won tonight so it’s all nonsense, slap ya self on the back. Well done.

We are minus four points.

[shanegrambeau]

Eyes wide open face plant.

Conditions in Cairns would have been well known - widely predicted - that it would be a lottery. Brought our skill and speed advantage back to scratch with the opponent. It was a gamble by management of 4 points which might mean the difference between one, two or three finals, against the certainty of a payoff (say $600,000). The gamblers lost the points bet.

Now the question is how much of the payoff will be discounted by our final ladder position. To me it was a foolish gamble, but I'm not privy to how dire our finances are - were we not told recently we were doing ok? Anyway money trumped points.

The silly extreme of the thing is, based on the logic the club used, is we could sell 11 games and make a known profit, but at the same time knowing we would probably never be finalists, of course. Membership would bottom out but there would be admin savings in the Membership Services Dept. We could save on coaches and coach payments, because winning is not a priority. Additional income could be gained by selling the inevitable low draft picks. Probably not sustainable long term but board that endorsed the gamble would have changed as well as senior staff. AFL would not be much more of a joke than now given the situation with North, Suns and West Coast. The business model seems to be able to sustain about three basket cases at any one time.

Do we need to step back and ask what is out core business? winning games or reducing debt (note: you can probably reduce debt by winning, but I doubt you can win by focussing on debt reduction).

What I would have liked is for the club to say to members how do you vote; and if you vote no to Cairns will you support a once only levy on members of $10. I think we would have agreed. I'd pay $10 to help my team play finals and not have to watch that rubbish served up as footy in Cairns. And I don't agree that which was served up advances AFL in FNQ an iota.

The score board on Cairns is 8 points lost, Clark lost for best part of a season, an elimination final, and reputational damage; against - say $1,000,000 in the kitty.

Not sure what a final would be worth, $200,000 cash (possibly x 2 or 3), invaluable player experience, membership lift, sponsorship? Clark out for a season, say $300,000 and one or two games more won. To me it seems bad economics medium/long term even not quantifying the intangibles. I hope wiser heads prevail in future.

So there.

You articulate the dilemma well.

Catch 22

It’s a total gamble.

If we thrash Melbourne on Sunday, it makes no difference…

We gambled four points, and lost.

We are not here to make a profit.

The AFL pays us as a welfare club.

Like a public transport cooperation that loses money, but can’t (and shouldn’t) be shut down.

It’s subsidized.


And if you think Port won tonight so it’s all nonsense, slap ya self on the back. Well done.

We are minus four points.

[SaintPav]

Has anyone factored in the travel factor driving down Punt Road on Mother’s Day?

Traffic jams, delays, waiting time at lights etc. stop start gear changes can cause hamstring tightness. I hope the club has thought about this.

Adelaide is dead. No traffic to the ground.

[SaintPav]

Bulldogs definitely suffering because of their fixture!! It’s a shame if they miss finals because they sold out their home game?

Remember…Round 6 they played a home game in Ballarat and LOST by a point!!

I can see the papers and the footy journos getting right into the Western bulldogs administration.

Bulldogs need to scrap home games away from Marvel

Is it time to revisit the fixture for Bulldogs home games?

It’s a shame if they miss finals because they sold out their home game

Port taking advantage of Bulldogs inability to play outdoors!!

The Bulldogs can’t understand why the AFL plays their home games at Ballarat

Bulldogs Are Filthy that they have been tossed around all over the country. The loss to Port Adelaide could be because of the difficult conditions they played in a couple of weeks ago

E.g. Round 5 Marvel win. Round 6 Ballarat home game LOSS to Adelaide. Round 7 home game at Marvel …WIN. Round 8…out on their feet and exhausted…they courageously go down to an in form and rampagingly hot Port Adelaide!!

Did Footscray sell their home game to Port?

[shanegrambeau]

Has anyone factored in the travel factor driving down Punt Road on Mother’s Day?

Traffic jams, delays, waiting time at lights etc. stop start gear changes can cause hamstring tightness. I hope the club has thought about this.

Adelaide is dead. No traffic to the ground.

It’s a fair point Pav.

They should have kept their trams in Adelaide. (Or did they?)

There lies the problem.

Shane Wakelin took the tram.

And like Darryl, slept in bunks.