Team v Power
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Re: Team v Power
What bemuses me is the expectations put on players
With players such as Ryder and Crouch, they came as very good footballers and you would expect then to perform (and even better after settling into the Club and learning who is around them)
Others such as Membrey, Butler, Howard, Higgins et al came for more opportunity so you look for them to benefit from that opportunity
To expect that drafted players are going to be “star” players in the early stages of their careers and deliver a premiership is folly
There are exceptions - but they are few and far between
Generally , from just 18 when drafted from schoolboy football, they have to build AFL ready bodies plus the endurance to impact consistently at AFL level
Then it is who surrounds them, Windhager being a case in point, on managed time including in the centre square
Due to interruptions Bytel is how many games into his AFL career?
As an inside mid in the heat of the battle
And he is criticised for not being a “star”, at 22 years of age with just a few games experience
His attributes as a footballer dissected by who exactly?
That is what I meant by offering opinion on the opinions recorded on this site
Noting that one contributor seems to always put some nebulous rubbish after my offerings - for whatever reasons
What we are looking at is the players on our List who are approaching 30 years of age - and which of our younger players are going to stand up in their stead - because our window is over the next couple of years
With players such as Ryder and Crouch, they came as very good footballers and you would expect then to perform (and even better after settling into the Club and learning who is around them)
Others such as Membrey, Butler, Howard, Higgins et al came for more opportunity so you look for them to benefit from that opportunity
To expect that drafted players are going to be “star” players in the early stages of their careers and deliver a premiership is folly
There are exceptions - but they are few and far between
Generally , from just 18 when drafted from schoolboy football, they have to build AFL ready bodies plus the endurance to impact consistently at AFL level
Then it is who surrounds them, Windhager being a case in point, on managed time including in the centre square
Due to interruptions Bytel is how many games into his AFL career?
As an inside mid in the heat of the battle
And he is criticised for not being a “star”, at 22 years of age with just a few games experience
His attributes as a footballer dissected by who exactly?
That is what I meant by offering opinion on the opinions recorded on this site
Noting that one contributor seems to always put some nebulous rubbish after my offerings - for whatever reasons
What we are looking at is the players on our List who are approaching 30 years of age - and which of our younger players are going to stand up in their stead - because our window is over the next couple of years
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Re: Team v Power
You make it sound like nebulous rubbish is beneath you.Killa wrote: ↑Fri 29 Apr 2022 8:46pm What bemuses me is the expectations put on players
With players such as Ryder and Crouch, they came as very good footballers and you would expect then to perform (and even better after settling into the Club and learning who is around them)
Others such as Membrey, Butler, Howard, Higgins et al came for more opportunity so you look for them to benefit from that opportunity
To expect that drafted players are going to be “star” players in the early stages of their careers and deliver a premiership is folly
There are exceptions - but they are few and far between
Generally , from just 18 when drafted from schoolboy football, they have to build AFL ready bodies plus the endurance to impact consistently at AFL level
Then it is who surrounds them, Windhager being a case in point, on managed time including in the centre square
Due to interruptions Bytel is how many games into his AFL career?
As an inside mid in the heat of the battle
And he is criticised for not being a “star”, at 22 years of age with just a few games experience
His attributes as a footballer dissected by who exactly?
That is what I meant by offering opinion on the opinions recorded on this site
Noting that one contributor seems to always put some nebulous rubbish after my offerings - for whatever reasons
What we are looking at is the players on our List who are approaching 30 years of age - and which of our younger players are going to stand up in their stead - because our window is over the next couple of years
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Re: Team v Power
Why? That’s what you do best. I reckon stick to what you’re good at and leave the footy analysis and predictions on players’ potential to those that have a clueVortex wrote: ↑Fri 29 Apr 2022 10:03amIt would seem we are talking about the same Jack, I'm actually very surprised Bytel doesn't already have his first MVP, AA and Charlie. One of the games big injustices. Sharman has taken his spot as most overrated me thinks.meher baba wrote: ↑Fri 29 Apr 2022 9:30amYou’re talking about Jack Bytel, aren’t you? Not some other guy at the club called Bytel who is some sort of Brownlow Medallist in waiting?Vortex wrote: ↑Thu 28 Apr 2022 10:05pmThis is the type of game Bytel should be the prototype for, Port are crap and are on a knife's edge and only one more loss away from having the fork stuck in them for 22. However they were a battle hardened flag favourite only 7 games ago so you'd think at some stage they will fire up. Bytel is in his fourth year and looks like Tarzan, but is he ready for the jungle, and Melbourne next round. We will be in really good shape if he makes the case.
Jack Bytel, the one I’m familiar with, is a fairly average performer who is yet to make a case for regular selection at AFL level.
All jokes aside though, I posed this question somewhere else; how long will Bytel be given to establish himself as a permanent midfielder, is 5 or 6 years a reasonable time frame? I'm thinking he needs to have shown something before seasons end to justify that type of investment. A tough assignment, he's competing for Steele, Crouch, Clark and Sebby's spots. As I alluded to Skeptic, would be a massive bonus if he can push in alongside that crew.
If Jack Bytel gets a decent run injury free and gets another 50 games under his belt, I believe he has the potential to be our best inside mid. I also think he has very good leadership qualities. We don’t need to go looking to import ‘on field leaders’ (like the previous coach and Lethlean thought would be a good idea) when we have outstanding young men like NWM, Windy and Bytel and Owens in the team
I think we can ‘justify the investment’ when you compare the money paid to some of the other players on the list. Players that cost considerably more and you were happy for St Kilda to recruit even though there were major doubts for return on investment
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Re: Team v Power
Bitchy much.Scollop wrote: ↑Sat 30 Apr 2022 9:02amWhy? That’s what you do best. I reckon stick to what you’re good at and leave the footy analysis and predictions on players’ potential to those that have a clueVortex wrote: ↑Fri 29 Apr 2022 10:03amIt would seem we are talking about the same Jack, I'm actually very surprised Bytel doesn't already have his first MVP, AA and Charlie. One of the games big injustices. Sharman has taken his spot as most overrated me thinks.meher baba wrote: ↑Fri 29 Apr 2022 9:30amYou’re talking about Jack Bytel, aren’t you? Not some other guy at the club called Bytel who is some sort of Brownlow Medallist in waiting?Vortex wrote: ↑Thu 28 Apr 2022 10:05pmThis is the type of game Bytel should be the prototype for, Port are crap and are on a knife's edge and only one more loss away from having the fork stuck in them for 22. However they were a battle hardened flag favourite only 7 games ago so you'd think at some stage they will fire up. Bytel is in his fourth year and looks like Tarzan, but is he ready for the jungle, and Melbourne next round. We will be in really good shape if he makes the case.
Jack Bytel, the one I’m familiar with, is a fairly average performer who is yet to make a case for regular selection at AFL level.
All jokes aside though, I posed this question somewhere else; how long will Bytel be given to establish himself as a permanent midfielder, is 5 or 6 years a reasonable time frame? I'm thinking he needs to have shown something before seasons end to justify that type of investment. A tough assignment, he's competing for Steele, Crouch, Clark and Sebby's spots. As I alluded to Skeptic, would be a massive bonus if he can push in alongside that crew.
If Jack Bytel gets a decent run injury free and gets another 50 games under his belt, I believe he has the potential to be our best inside mid. I also think he has very good leadership qualities. We don’t need to go looking to import ‘on field leaders’ (like the previous coach and Lethlean thought would be a good idea) when we have outstanding young men like NWM, Windy and Bytel and Owens in the team
I think we can ‘justify the investment’ when you compare the money paid to some of the other players on the list. Players that cost considerably more and you were happy for St Kilda to recruit even though there were major doubts for return on investment
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Re: Team v Power
Bytel's lack of improvement is a bit disappointing. Perhaps legacy of his back injury? Seems a fraction slow for AFL in reaction time and over the ground. Hope it all comes together for him soon because it looks like he is behind Owens and Byrnes amongst the VFL contingent. Clark, Jones and Billings certainly in front of him. Seems quite injury prone, despite his physique? Can see why he may be looking around.
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Re: Team v Power
I'm sure we all want fringe players like Bytel to succeed because the reality is we are still short on depth of quality in the midfield and for us to become a sustainable top 4 side it's vitally important players like Bytel make the grade otherwise we will remain stuck in the glut of clubs fighting for middle ladder positions. Ideally he can deliver on the hype of a few years ago and become A grade to elite.Yorkeys wrote: ↑Sat 30 Apr 2022 11:21am Bytel's lack of improvement is a bit disappointing. Perhaps legacy of his back injury? Seems a fraction slow for AFL in reaction time and over the ground. Hope it all comes together for him soon because it looks like he is behind Owens and Byrnes amongst the VFL contingent. Clark, Jones and Billings certainly in front of him. Seems quite injury prone, despite his physique? Can see why he may be looking around.
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Re: Team v Power
Chaps and Ladies
Still got no idea about his attributes here from you except that he is slow.
Can he mark?
Leap?
Kick?
Step sideways?
Good hands at ground level? (Ala the Nick W finger scoop off the deck)
Good tank?
Bump?
He is a biggish mid right?
189cm is decent height.
Would you say he is an ‘all-rounder’ rather than a player that brings special tools in his kit?
Still got no idea about his attributes here from you except that he is slow.
Can he mark?
Leap?
Kick?
Step sideways?
Good hands at ground level? (Ala the Nick W finger scoop off the deck)
Good tank?
Bump?
He is a biggish mid right?
189cm is decent height.
Would you say he is an ‘all-rounder’ rather than a player that brings special tools in his kit?
You're quite brilliant Shane, yeah..terrific!
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Re: Team v Power
Chaps and Ladies
Still got no idea about his attributes here from you except that he is slow.
Can he mark?
Leap?
Kick?
Step sideways?
Good hands at ground level? (Ala the Nick W finger scoop off the deck)
Good tank?
Bump?
He is a biggish mid right?
189cm is decent height.
Would you say he is an ‘all-rounder’ rather than a player that brings special tools in his kit?
Still got no idea about his attributes here from you except that he is slow.
Can he mark?
Leap?
Kick?
Step sideways?
Good hands at ground level? (Ala the Nick W finger scoop off the deck)
Good tank?
Bump?
He is a biggish mid right?
189cm is decent height.
Would you say he is an ‘all-rounder’ rather than a player that brings special tools in his kit?
You're quite brilliant Shane, yeah..terrific!
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Re: Team v Power
shanegrambeau wrote: ↑Sat 30 Apr 2022 4:40pm Chaps and Ladies
Still got no idea about his attributes here from you except that he is slow.
Can he mark?
Leap?
Kick?
Step sideways?
Good hands at ground level? (Ala the Nick W finger scoop off the deck)
Good tank?
Bump?
He is a biggish mid right?
189cm is decent height.
Would you say he is an ‘all-rounder’ rather than a player that brings special tools in his kit?
From what I’ve seen Bytel’s main attribute is quick hands in congestion.
Kicks both feet but not elite, needs to build his tank further to enable him to spread and get to more contests.
Gotta feeling he’ll end up behind Windhager and Owens.
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Re: Team v Power
This aged pretty well mate.Ghost Like wrote: ↑Thu 28 Apr 2022 7:54pm Smart move, give Marshall another week to lose the cork. Recognised Campbell's size & abilities if the conditions are wet. No need to expose Heath in, likely slippery, conditions up there, makes sense. Would have been funny if they thought otherwise.
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Re: Team v Power
Yep, Campbell won't play too many games. That said, Campbell cannot kick for King, Higgins & Gresham.CQ SAINT wrote: ↑Sun 01 May 2022 8:14amThis aged pretty well mate.Ghost Like wrote: ↑Thu 28 Apr 2022 7:54pm Smart move, give Marshall another week to lose the cork. Recognised Campbell's size & abilities if the conditions are wet. No need to expose Heath in, likely slippery, conditions up there, makes sense. Would have been funny if they thought otherwise.
Are you still posting your membership in or feel like handing it in in person?
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Re: Team v Power
Not likely, I just spent $2000 on flights accommodation and the official match function. Never uttered a word about giving up any of my 7 memberships.Ghost Like wrote: ↑Sun 01 May 2022 9:02amYep, Campbell won't play too many games. That said, Campbell cannot kick for King, Higgins & Gresham.CQ SAINT wrote: ↑Sun 01 May 2022 8:14amThis aged pretty well mate.Ghost Like wrote: ↑Thu 28 Apr 2022 7:54pm Smart move, give Marshall another week to lose the cork. Recognised Campbell's size & abilities if the conditions are wet. No need to expose Heath in, likely slippery, conditions up there, makes sense. Would have been funny if they thought otherwise.
Are you still posting your membership in or feel like handing it in in person?
I just thought my changes and the reasons for them were right. Only thing I'm sure of now, is Hunter would have been a better selection than Campbell. At least he was an unknown dud.
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Re: Team v Power
But what if Butler gets selected next week? Weren't you sending them back to the club?CQ SAINT wrote: ↑Sun 01 May 2022 9:17amNot likely, I just spent $2000 on flights accommodation and the official match function. Never uttered a word about giving up any of my 7 memberships.Ghost Like wrote: ↑Sun 01 May 2022 9:02amYep, Campbell won't play too many games. That said, Campbell cannot kick for King, Higgins & Gresham.CQ SAINT wrote: ↑Sun 01 May 2022 8:14amThis aged pretty well mate.Ghost Like wrote: ↑Thu 28 Apr 2022 7:54pm Smart move, give Marshall another week to lose the cork. Recognised Campbell's size & abilities if the conditions are wet. No need to expose Heath in, likely slippery, conditions up there, makes sense. Would have been funny if they thought otherwise.
Are you still posting your membership in or feel like handing it in in person?
I just thought my changes and the reasons for them were right. Only thing I'm sure of now, is Hunter would have been a better selection than Campbell. At least he was an unknown dud.
You were pumping for Heath, I believed the conditions would suit Campbell better, so did the selectors. I don't believe Heath would have made the difference. Sharman may have OR the coaching staff reading the tea leaves and subbing Campbell off "with tightness" and allow Lienert to play back, moving Membrey or Battle into the ruck.
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Re: Team v Power
You'll have to find the post and remind me. My memberships are painted on for life.Ghost Like wrote: ↑Sun 01 May 2022 9:31amBut what if Butler gets selected next week? Weren't you sending them back to the club?CQ SAINT wrote: ↑Sun 01 May 2022 9:17amNot likely, I just spent $2000 on flights accommodation and the official match function. Never uttered a word about giving up any of my 7 memberships.Ghost Like wrote: ↑Sun 01 May 2022 9:02amYep, Campbell won't play too many games. That said, Campbell cannot kick for King, Higgins & Gresham.CQ SAINT wrote: ↑Sun 01 May 2022 8:14amThis aged pretty well mate.Ghost Like wrote: ↑Thu 28 Apr 2022 7:54pm Smart move, give Marshall another week to lose the cork. Recognised Campbell's size & abilities if the conditions are wet. No need to expose Heath in, likely slippery, conditions up there, makes sense. Would have been funny if they thought otherwise.
Are you still posting your membership in or feel like handing it in in person?
I just thought my changes and the reasons for them were right. Only thing I'm sure of now, is Hunter would have been a better selection than Campbell. At least he was an unknown dud.
You were pumping for Heath, I believed the conditions would suit Campbell better, so did the selectors. I don't believe Heath would have made the difference. Sharman may have OR the coaching staff reading the tea leaves and subbing Campbell off "with tightness" and allow Lienert to play back, moving Membrey or Battle into the ruck.
On form, Heath would have kicked the goal, gotten 10 hit outs and played like a ruck. Campbell hadn't played in 2 matches, it was going to be wet and he had f****** COVID. He is probably a great bloke, team first, save the planet and all that stuff but hmmm. 10 years, 52 games and unfortunately not even close to up to it.
Heath is the future. That's why you play him.
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Re: Team v Power
In the Match Thread
Impatient Sainter wrote: ↑If Butler is not dropped after tonight I'm sending my membership back to the club.
Campbell was always a back up ruck, unfortunately we needed his back up. I'm not convinced that averages in the VFL translate to the AFL. I am convinced after witnessing the conditions last night & Port's tactics that he should have been subbed.
I think Campbell is a pretty soft target to blame last night's loss on. I'd start with the selectors, then our forwards and then our mids & half backs as to why they kept picking out Aliir as if he was Saint Trevor.
Impatient Sainter wrote: ↑If Butler is not dropped after tonight I'm sending my membership back to the club.
Campbell was always a back up ruck, unfortunately we needed his back up. I'm not convinced that averages in the VFL translate to the AFL. I am convinced after witnessing the conditions last night & Port's tactics that he should have been subbed.
I think Campbell is a pretty soft target to blame last night's loss on. I'd start with the selectors, then our forwards and then our mids & half backs as to why they kept picking out Aliir as if he was Saint Trevor.
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Re: Team v Power
This is the perfect spot to point out that I am CQ, not ImpatientSainter.Ghost Like wrote: ↑Sun 01 May 2022 10:13am In the Match Thread
Impatient Sainter wrote: ↑If Butler is not dropped after tonight I'm sending my membership back to the club.
Campbell was always a back up ruck, unfortunately we needed his back up. I'm not convinced that averages in the VFL translate to the AFL. I am convinced after witnessing the conditions last night & Port's tactics that he should have been subbed.
I think Campbell is a pretty soft target to blame last night's loss on. I'd start with the selectors, then our forwards and then our mids & half backs as to why they kept picking out Aliir as if he was Saint Trevor.
If I was just recalling differences of opinions and pinging blokes for them, I'd say, you have no idea who you are even talking to, let alone what you ate talking about. But I won't.
Campbell hadnt played in weeks, has had COVID and has played 52 games in 10 years and you referenced a VFL game against Richmond 3 weeks, thinking that form in the wet, was a good reason to play him.
One of us is confused and it ain't me.
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Re: Team v Power
Oops, you are spot on. My apologies CQ.CQ SAINT wrote: ↑Sun 01 May 2022 10:28amThis is the perfect spot to point out that I am CQ, not ImpatientSainter.Ghost Like wrote: ↑Sun 01 May 2022 10:13am In the Match Thread
Impatient Sainter wrote: ↑If Butler is not dropped after tonight I'm sending my membership back to the club.
Campbell was always a back up ruck, unfortunately we needed his back up. I'm not convinced that averages in the VFL translate to the AFL. I am convinced after witnessing the conditions last night & Port's tactics that he should have been subbed.
I think Campbell is a pretty soft target to blame last night's loss on. I'd start with the selectors, then our forwards and then our mids & half backs as to why they kept picking out Aliir as if he was Saint Trevor.
If I was just recalling differences of opinions and pinging blokes for them, I'd say, you have no idea who you are even talking to, let alone what you ate talking about. But I won't.
Campbell hadnt played in weeks, has had COVID and has played 52 games in 10 years and you referenced a VFL game against Richmond 3 weeks, thinking that form in the wet, was a good reason to play him.
One of us is confused and it ain't me.
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Re: Team v Power
All good mate. I dont rate Campbell, I shouldn't bag him and its not his fault he was selected.Ghost Like wrote: ↑Sun 01 May 2022 10:52amOops, you are spot on. My apologies CQ.CQ SAINT wrote: ↑Sun 01 May 2022 10:28amThis is the perfect spot to point out that I am CQ, not ImpatientSainter.Ghost Like wrote: ↑Sun 01 May 2022 10:13am In the Match Thread
Impatient Sainter wrote: ↑If Butler is not dropped after tonight I'm sending my membership back to the club.
Campbell was always a back up ruck, unfortunately we needed his back up. I'm not convinced that averages in the VFL translate to the AFL. I am convinced after witnessing the conditions last night & Port's tactics that he should have been subbed.
I think Campbell is a pretty soft target to blame last night's loss on. I'd start with the selectors, then our forwards and then our mids & half backs as to why they kept picking out Aliir as if he was Saint Trevor.
If I was just recalling differences of opinions and pinging blokes for them, I'd say, you have no idea who you are even talking to, let alone what you ate talking about. But I won't.
Campbell hadnt played in weeks, has had COVID and has played 52 games in 10 years and you referenced a VFL game against Richmond 3 weeks, thinking that form in the wet, was a good reason to play him.
One of us is confused and it ain't me.
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Re: Team v Power
The following players are best 18 and didn't play last night:
Hannebery
Jones
Billings
Marshall
Clark
Of those, four haven't played a single match all season and they certainly would've made a difference.
Hannebery
Jones
Billings
Marshall
Clark
Of those, four haven't played a single match all season and they certainly would've made a difference.
Your friendly neighbourhood samurai.