Umpiring
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- Ghost Like
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Re: Umpiring
Isn't this "chicken or the egg" stuff? What came first, Schneider facetiously clapping an umpire OR a series of incorrect / poor umpire decisions?
I think an umpire clapping a point kicked by Schneider would have been funnier than treating him as persona non grata. Maybe that's just me & in the spirit of the alleged action.
I think an umpire clapping a point kicked by Schneider would have been funnier than treating him as persona non grata. Maybe that's just me & in the spirit of the alleged action.
- Mr Magic
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Re: Umpiring
Scollop,
Fundamentally I'm not disagreeing with your pov.
I'm just saying that there are instances where issues other than the 'correct decision/interpretation' are at play in an umpire(s) particular decision.
To blindly dismiss any/all concerns over incorrect decisions as a 'lack of respect for umpires is, IMHO, just wrong.
If a player makes a mistake egregious enough, the coach has the ability to remove him from the playing field and talk to him.
If an umpire makes a mistake there is not only no remedy but now there is no opportunity to actually question the right/wrong of that decision. (I'm not talking about going off your head at the umpire)
We all know that umpires make mistakes. Why is it impossible to have a system whereby those mistakes can be questioned?
Why are the Hawkins and King hands in the back non-decisions allowed to stand unquestioned?
Why is the Lienert deliberate out of bounds unable to be questioned?
Why is the Breust 'leading with his head' free kick unable to be questioned?
If the decisions are allowed to stand without any comment then the umpires will continue to make similar incorrect calls during the game.
Pointing it out to the umpires after the game is not a remedy for mistakes during the game.
It is akin to shutting the gate after the horse has bolted.
Fundamentally I'm not disagreeing with your pov.
I'm just saying that there are instances where issues other than the 'correct decision/interpretation' are at play in an umpire(s) particular decision.
To blindly dismiss any/all concerns over incorrect decisions as a 'lack of respect for umpires is, IMHO, just wrong.
If a player makes a mistake egregious enough, the coach has the ability to remove him from the playing field and talk to him.
If an umpire makes a mistake there is not only no remedy but now there is no opportunity to actually question the right/wrong of that decision. (I'm not talking about going off your head at the umpire)
We all know that umpires make mistakes. Why is it impossible to have a system whereby those mistakes can be questioned?
Why are the Hawkins and King hands in the back non-decisions allowed to stand unquestioned?
Why is the Lienert deliberate out of bounds unable to be questioned?
Why is the Breust 'leading with his head' free kick unable to be questioned?
If the decisions are allowed to stand without any comment then the umpires will continue to make similar incorrect calls during the game.
Pointing it out to the umpires after the game is not a remedy for mistakes during the game.
It is akin to shutting the gate after the horse has bolted.
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Re: Umpiring
So what happens if a player throws his arms up at a non decision .... ie a ball up when they think it is holding the ball ... does that me it will be a free kick against ??
Not Craw, CRAW!
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Re: Umpiring
Possible cost us a grannie and really indefensible on the part of the maggot not to pay a blatant free.Ghost Like wrote: ↑Fri 22 Apr 2022 4:34pm Isn't this "chicken or the egg" stuff? What came first, Schneider facetiously clapping an umpire OR a series of incorrect / poor umpire decisions?
I think an umpire clapping a point kicked by Schneider would have been funnier than treating him as persona non grata. Maybe that's just me & in the spirit of the alleged action.
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Re: Umpiring
Hear, hear, the voice of reason.Mr Magic wrote: ↑Fri 22 Apr 2022 4:35pm Scollop,
Fundamentally I'm not disagreeing with your pov.
I'm just saying that there are instances where issues other than the 'correct decision/interpretation' are at play in an umpire(s) particular decision.
To blindly dismiss any/all concerns over incorrect decisions as a 'lack of respect for umpires is, IMHO, just wrong.
If a player makes a mistake egregious enough, the coach has the ability to remove him from the playing field and talk to him.
If an umpire makes a mistake there is not only no remedy but now there is no opportunity to actually question the right/wrong of that decision. (I'm not talking about going off your head at the umpire)
We all know that umpires make mistakes. Why is it impossible to have a system whereby those mistakes can be questioned?
Why are the Hawkins and King hands in the back non-decisions allowed to stand unquestioned?
Why is the Lienert deliberate out of bounds unable to be questioned?
Why is the Breust 'leading with his head' free kick unable to be questioned?
If the decisions are allowed to stand without any comment then the umpires will continue to make similar incorrect calls during the game.
Pointing it out to the umpires after the game is not a remedy for mistakes during the game.
It is akin to shutting the gate after the horse has bolted.
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- meher baba
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Re: Umpiring
I've always thought it's a far better game when the players simply accept the deisions of the umpires and move on.
Schneider was always a pain in the butt: as were the entire Swans side in the era in which he played there and from whom he learnt his bad habits. The Swans players used to stir up their fans and try to intimidate the umps into awarding frees that were never there.
Yes, the umpires are far from perfect, but players who try to intimidate them will only make things worse. That's why I keep banging on about how I would prefer the umpires to have as distant a relationship with the players as possible: none of the stupid banter and use of nicknames that sometimes gets picked up on the mikes. It should be "black team" and "red team" (or whatever) and the use of the numbers on the players' backs: that's the main reason that the numbers are there FFS!
Schneider was always a pain in the butt: as were the entire Swans side in the era in which he played there and from whom he learnt his bad habits. The Swans players used to stir up their fans and try to intimidate the umps into awarding frees that were never there.
Yes, the umpires are far from perfect, but players who try to intimidate them will only make things worse. That's why I keep banging on about how I would prefer the umpires to have as distant a relationship with the players as possible: none of the stupid banter and use of nicknames that sometimes gets picked up on the mikes. It should be "black team" and "red team" (or whatever) and the use of the numbers on the players' backs: that's the main reason that the numbers are there FFS!
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."
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- The_Dud
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Re: Umpiring
More abuse.saynta wrote: ↑Fri 22 Apr 2022 5:01pmPossible cost us a grannie and really indefensible on the part of the maggot not to pay a blatant free.Ghost Like wrote: ↑Fri 22 Apr 2022 4:34pm Isn't this "chicken or the egg" stuff? What came first, Schneider facetiously clapping an umpire OR a series of incorrect / poor umpire decisions?
I think an umpire clapping a point kicked by Schneider would have been funnier than treating him as persona non grata. Maybe that's just me & in the spirit of the alleged action.
All posters are equal, but some posters are more equal than others.
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Re: Umpiring
Richmond won three premierships while near or at the very bottom of the ‘free kick ladder’.
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- IluvHarvey
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Re: Umpiring
AFL needs to make Umpires full time employees. They need to live AFL umpiring. It’s the only solution.
"It only ends once. Anything that happens before that is just progress."
- The_Dud
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Re: Umpiring
Yep. And I didn’t mind a small part of Eddie’s plan, umpires should be split into different crews / teams. I think it would lead to more accountability and more consistency.IluvHarvey wrote: ↑Fri 22 Apr 2022 7:40pm AFL needs to make Umpires full time employees. They need to live AFL umpiring. It’s the only solution.
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Re: Umpiring
What I object to is that there are clear mistakes - but the AFL comes out and says 'Nothing to see here - we got all of our decisions right' Bull-tishsaynta wrote: ↑Fri 22 Apr 2022 5:02pmHear, hear, the voice of reason.Mr Magic wrote: ↑Fri 22 Apr 2022 4:35pm Scollop,
Fundamentally I'm not disagreeing with your pov.
I'm just saying that there are instances where issues other than the 'correct decision/interpretation' are at play in an umpire(s) particular decision.
To blindly dismiss any/all concerns over incorrect decisions as a 'lack of respect for umpires is, IMHO, just wrong.
If a player makes a mistake egregious enough, the coach has the ability to remove him from the playing field and talk to him.
If an umpire makes a mistake there is not only no remedy but now there is no opportunity to actually question the right/wrong of that decision. (I'm not talking about going off your head at the umpire)
We all know that umpires make mistakes. Why is it impossible to have a system whereby those mistakes can be questioned?
Why are the Hawkins and King hands in the back non-decisions allowed to stand unquestioned?
Why is the Lienert deliberate out of bounds unable to be questioned?
Why is the Breust 'leading with his head' free kick unable to be questioned?
If the decisions are allowed to stand without any comment then the umpires will continue to make similar incorrect calls during the game.
Pointing it out to the umpires after the game is not a remedy for mistakes during the game.
It is akin to shutting the gate after the horse has bolted.
It does not have to be adversarial - just needs to be open to discussion - after the event.
Sunday Football used to have a segment like "What's the decision?" or something like that
“Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.”
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If you have a Bee in your Bonnet - I can assist you with that - but it WILL involve some smacking upside the head!
― Aristophanes
If you have a Bee in your Bonnet - I can assist you with that - but it WILL involve some smacking upside the head!
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Re: Umpiring
I think they are teams of 3 at the momentThe_Dud wrote: ↑Fri 22 Apr 2022 7:43pmYep. And I didn’t mind a small part of Eddie’s plan, umpires should be split into different crews / teams. I think it would lead to more accountability and more consistency.IluvHarvey wrote: ↑Fri 22 Apr 2022 7:40pm AFL needs to make Umpires full time employees. They need to live AFL umpiring. It’s the only solution.
PS - Leigh Fisher should NEVER have umpired a single St Kilda game - EVER - the optics are wrong
“Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.”
― Aristophanes
If you have a Bee in your Bonnet - I can assist you with that - but it WILL involve some smacking upside the head!
― Aristophanes
If you have a Bee in your Bonnet - I can assist you with that - but it WILL involve some smacking upside the head!
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Re: Umpiring
Two horrendous calls tonight both resulted in GWS goals.
NO IFS OR BUTS HARVS IS KING OF THE AFL
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Re: Umpiring
Leigh Fisher should NEVER have umpired a single St Kilda game - EVER - the optics are wrong
“Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.”
― Aristophanes
If you have a Bee in your Bonnet - I can assist you with that - but it WILL involve some smacking upside the head!
― Aristophanes
If you have a Bee in your Bonnet - I can assist you with that - but it WILL involve some smacking upside the head!
- Ghost Like
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Re: Umpiring
Teams??? Crews??? of umpires...to me that's smoke & mirrors. It's a bullsh!t idea that does not address the problem with the game. That problem is the rules & how malleable they are with interpretation and how they are valued in terms of the game's fabric. It is not the umpires, it is not the players, it is the rules and the game's supposed custodians.
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Re: Umpiring
Do they stay together all season?Sainter_Dad wrote: ↑Fri 22 Apr 2022 11:55pmI think they are teams of 3 at the momentThe_Dud wrote: ↑Fri 22 Apr 2022 7:43pmYep. And I didn’t mind a small part of Eddie’s plan, umpires should be split into different crews / teams. I think it would lead to more accountability and more consistency.IluvHarvey wrote: ↑Fri 22 Apr 2022 7:40pm AFL needs to make Umpires full time employees. They need to live AFL umpiring. It’s the only solution.
PS - Leigh Fisher should NEVER have umpired a single St Kilda game - EVER - the optics are wrong
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Re: Umpiring
The rules and the umpires are 2 different issues.Ghost Like wrote: ↑Sat 23 Apr 2022 12:01am Teams??? Crews??? of umpires...to me that's smoke & mirrors. It's a bullsh!t idea that does not address the problem with the game. That problem is the rules & how malleable they are with interpretation and how they are valued in terms of the game's fabric. It is not the umpires, it is not the players, it is the rules and the game's supposed custodians.
What’s saying you can’t try improve both?
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Re: Umpiring
No point in improving one without the other. The rules are the key. The other will follow.The_Dud wrote: ↑Sat 23 Apr 2022 12:04amThe rules and the umpires are 2 different issues.Ghost Like wrote: ↑Sat 23 Apr 2022 12:01am Teams??? Crews??? of umpires...to me that's smoke & mirrors. It's a bullsh!t idea that does not address the problem with the game. That problem is the rules & how malleable they are with interpretation and how they are valued in terms of the game's fabric. It is not the umpires, it is not the players, it is the rules and the game's supposed custodians.
What’s saying you can’t try improve both?
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Re: Umpiring
Players, coaches, commentators and fans need to learn, adapt and accept the new rules re umpire dissent.
The rule is here to stay, time to cope with it.![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
The rule is here to stay, time to cope with it.
![Laughing :lol:](./images/smilies/icon_lol.gif)
The Saints are under review, will it make any difference to the underachievers ?
- Devilhead
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Re: Umpiring
Hopefully the umps refuse to pay them except when properly abused .... just to stick it up Dean Gordon "Cheese" Pritchard's fat arse
The Devil makes work for idle hands!!!
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Re: Umpiring
I think they do (groups that are often together) this year are:The_Dud wrote: ↑Sat 23 Apr 2022 12:03amDo they stay together all season?Sainter_Dad wrote: ↑Fri 22 Apr 2022 11:55pmI think they are teams of 3 at the momentThe_Dud wrote: ↑Fri 22 Apr 2022 7:43pmYep. And I didn’t mind a small part of Eddie’s plan, umpires should be split into different crews / teams. I think it would lead to more accountability and more consistency.IluvHarvey wrote: ↑Fri 22 Apr 2022 7:40pm AFL needs to make Umpires full time employees. They need to live AFL umpiring. It’s the only solution.
PS - Leigh Fisher should NEVER have umpired a single St Kilda game - EVER - the optics are wrong
17 - John Howorth; and
23 - Robert Findlay
2 - Nick Foot;
12 - Andrew Stephens; and
19 - Alex Whetton
20 - Jamie Broadbent; and
26 - Craig Fleer
8 - Brett Rosebury;
14 - Hayden Gavine; and
22 - Nathan Williamson
1 - Chris Donlon; and
31 - Paul Rebeschini
Ray seems to get the pick of games HE wants to do
The others seem to slot into wherever
Source:
https://aflua.com.au/umpire-appointments/
“Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.”
― Aristophanes
If you have a Bee in your Bonnet - I can assist you with that - but it WILL involve some smacking upside the head!
― Aristophanes
If you have a Bee in your Bonnet - I can assist you with that - but it WILL involve some smacking upside the head!
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Re: Umpiring
Jimmy Bartel, GWS Board Member, just stated (unprompted) on 3AW that the McKenzie decision was a mistake.Sainter_Dad wrote: ↑Fri 22 Apr 2022 11:53pmWhat I object to is that there are clear mistakes - but the AFL comes out and says 'Nothing to see here - we got all of our decisions right' Bull-tishsaynta wrote: ↑Fri 22 Apr 2022 5:02pmHear, hear, the voice of reason.Mr Magic wrote: ↑Fri 22 Apr 2022 4:35pm Scollop,
Fundamentally I'm not disagreeing with your pov.
I'm just saying that there are instances where issues other than the 'correct decision/interpretation' are at play in an umpire(s) particular decision.
To blindly dismiss any/all concerns over incorrect decisions as a 'lack of respect for umpires is, IMHO, just wrong.
If a player makes a mistake egregious enough, the coach has the ability to remove him from the playing field and talk to him.
If an umpire makes a mistake there is not only no remedy but now there is no opportunity to actually question the right/wrong of that decision. (I'm not talking about going off your head at the umpire)
We all know that umpires make mistakes. Why is it impossible to have a system whereby those mistakes can be questioned?
Why are the Hawkins and King hands in the back non-decisions allowed to stand unquestioned?
Why is the Lienert deliberate out of bounds unable to be questioned?
Why is the Breust 'leading with his head' free kick unable to be questioned?
If the decisions are allowed to stand without any comment then the umpires will continue to make similar incorrect calls during the game.
Pointing it out to the umpires after the game is not a remedy for mistakes during the game.
It is akin to shutting the gate after the horse has bolted.
It does not have to be adversarial - just needs to be open to discussion - after the event.
Sunday Football used to have a segment like "What's the decision?" or something like that
Part of a general discussion about the new rule and its interpretation.
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