Special Message to Curly

[Sainter_Dad]

Enjoying the Umpiring display tonight???

31 - 14

[The Fireman]

Gee those doggies looked good. Centre clearances were awesome. We will struggle against them

[CURLY]

Enjoying the Umpiring display tonight???

31 - 14

They love the WB and Collingwood.

The WB won a premiership on the back of biased umpiring.

[WellardSaint]

Ch 7, at 3 qtr time, said the frees since qtr time were 13-3 in WB favour.
They then said 'when Sydney gets the next free, there'll be a huge cheer'

[saint6709]

https://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/livid ... 0a5d3d9d85

[The_Dud]

The big question though is how does this fit into the AFL backed umpiring conspiracy against St Kilda???

[CURLY]

The big question though is how does this fit into the AFL backed umpiring conspiracy against St Kilda???

Easy target. Have no voice in the media to say anything. Collingwood get a raw deal The Herald Sun will run a week worth of stories about it. We get reamed its just dismissed as its only StKilda

[Ghost Like]

The big question though is how does this fit into the AFL backed umpiring conspiracy against St Kilda???

The umpires have such poor sight they thought there was some black in Sydney's jumpers.

[Ghost Like]

It was disgraceful last night. I said to a mate that this was a battle between the umpires two favourites for who would win the free kick count. The bookies had paid out by half time!

[Ghost Like]

FWIW, the Bulldogs have only been on the wrong side of the umpires count a handful of times since the 2016 finals series. Makes a huge difference if you can throw the ball & win the most frees for.

It's not cheating, simply a sub-concious bias.

[The_Dud]

The big question though is how does this fit into the AFL backed umpiring conspiracy against St Kilda???

Easy target. Have no voice in the media to say anything. Collingwood get a raw deal The Herald Sun will run a week worth of stories about it. We get reamed its just dismissed as its only StKilda

That's not giving a reason why the AFL have instigated this conspiracy against us?

Riewoldt, Montagna, Dal Santo, Ross Lyon, Michael Roberts, Mark Fine, plus many more ex-St Kilda people are active in footy media, plus the AFL CEO!!

Also the Dogs are an equally minor team (before 2016 especially) so why do they get targeted for the exact opposite treatment to us in this grand conspiracy??

[saynta]

Tosser Lyin an ex-St Kida person? What a shameful thing to have to admit too.

Ex-Players are ex-saints people, ex coaches not so much. Guys like the Tosser are just f****** mercenaries. No particular love for any club but the one they initially played for.

Interesting to note that dudly doesn't comment on the lop sided free kick count.

[meher baba]

I thought most of them were there TBH, and the umps even missed a few. Apart from Rampe, the Swans defenders, including Paddy, are a pretty inept and clumsy lot. They deserved a thrashing, but the Dogs forwards couldn’t kick straight.

I agree that the Dogs get away with some questionable passes by hand but that’s one area in which the umps are far better placed to judge than TV viewers. I often find myself thinking “that’s a throw”, and then the slo mo replay show otherwise.

Neither side looks like remotely like being serious contenders in 2022.

[CURLY]

I thought most of them were there TBH, and the umps even missed a few. Apart from Rampe, the Swans defenders, including Paddy, are a pretty inept and clumsy lot. They deserved a thrashing, but the Dogs forwards couldn’t kick straight.

I agree that the Dogs get away with some questionable passes by hand but that’s one area in which the umps are far better placed to judge than TV viewers. I often find myself thinking “that’s a throw”, and then the slo mo replay show otherwise.

Neither side looks like remotely like being serious contenders in 2022.

Watch theyre defenders suddenly learn the rules the hour before they play us.

[The_Dud]

And no one is mentioning the 50m penalty the umps paid with a minute to go putting Swans within 5 points? When that happened against us last week apparently it was the umps trying to hand the game to Freo...

So I don't get it, do they want the Dogs to win or lose???

[meher baba]

It’s all much easier to understand if, like me, you see the umpires as fundamentally unbiased, but inadequately trained and with a very poor culture.

[meher baba]

I might add that AFL is an intrinsically difficult game to umpire when compared, say, to soccer or cricket (and there is no shortage of controversies in those sports).

But I reckon AFL umpiring could be much, much better if umpires could be taught how to let the game flow much more. Some are good at this now, but not enough of them.

[meher baba]

And, as I’ve listed before, a great first step would be to instruct umpires that they are to cease using team and player names and switch to colours and numbers. I just don’t get all the faux chummy chummy stuff. The umps are not on the same level as the players. They should be as invisible as possible.

[The_Dud]

I might add that AFL is an intrinsically difficult game to umpire when compared, say, to soccer or cricket (and there is no shortage of controversies in those sports).

Yep, though some can't seem to get their head around this.

Just look at the NFL, richest sport in the world, seven on field officials + video officials with dozens of cameras and slow-mo replays + coach lead challenge system, and there are still bucket loads of controversial decisions and upset supporters every week.

It is impossible to have the perfect fool-proof system.

[Impatient Sainter]

The free kick count was lopped sided - but the Bulldogs were first to the ball at most contests and got rewarded. The other aspect is Sydney are champion scraggers at holding or pushing their opponents and last night they got found out. As far as I was concerned the free kicks the Dogs got were deserved and the umpires did a reasonable job.

The Bulldogs dominated the game apart from the score board and the free kick count showed that.

[Sainter_Dad]

I might add that AFL is an intrinsically difficult game to umpire when compared, say, to soccer or cricket (and there is no shortage of controversies in those sports).

Yep, though some can't seem to get their head around this.

Just look at the NFL, richest sport in the world, seven on field officials + video officials with dozens of cameras and slow-mo replays + coach lead challenge system, and there are still bucket loads of controversial decisions and upset supporters every week.

It is impossible to have the perfect fool-proof system.

Yes ..... but surely you can see Curly's point as well - the happy ground is somewhere in the middle

You go to the footy expecting a certain level of interpretation of the rules and then get blatantly wrong ones (sometimes both ways) and have a right to vent that frustration

Curly wants steak - but keeps on being served sausages. You understand that the chef cannot cook steak so tries to satisfy his hunger with Snags

I agree with Meher - Umpiring was better when the umpires were beige
I distinctly remember a situation when the umpire was using the players name in calling the player back to the mark - he was using the wrong name - but still paid the 50

The forum is a place for venting and (as an ex umpire (jnr level)) I can see your point - I can also see the point that 3 umpires should be able to get their interpretation straight each week. What is paid a throw on the left of screen should also be a throw on the right.

Free kick counts do not need to even - but when you are consistently seeing missed ones and the stats show the same thing it is frustrating

When AGL charges you the wrong amount - you ring to complain - not to the board of AGL - but to the poor Customer Service Operator - most umpires are the CSO - however F@rking Razor (his correct title) thinks he speaks on behalf of the board

Umpires ARE NOT PERFECT and the miss stuff the same as players - but when the forum criticizes Higgins in the Collingwood game we accept that - when umpires continually put in shockers they should be held accountable - and no-one sees that happening

Umpiring would be so much more accepted if the umpires were held to account - publicly

AFL Umpires Rep should come out on Monday and say:
We had 195 decisions on the weekend - 180 were correct - however of the 15 we missed these were the reasons - etc
Open it up for discussion - have an umpires Q&A (Humphrey used to do this on SEN)

People would be more accepting

Instead we get that nothing is wrong - they justify each and every decision

If what we have is the best we are going to get (ie no one learns (supporters/players/umpires)) then how can we be accepting of mediocrity.

We cannot employ the umpires on a full time basis because (as I understand it) they already get a huge amount of money on a part time basis - who wants to pay an umpire $250K just to do a job he should be proficient at???

/end rant

[Ghost Like]

I just hope our coaching staff watched last night's game & the way the Dogs always corralled Sydney to one side, not enabling the 45 all the way down the ground until Sydney were forced to kick into the forward pocket or to the top of the square. Sydney were forced to play slow, error ridden football.

For Buddy's 1000 goals, he'd be lucky if he got 50 from an overhead contested mark.

[The_Dud]

I might add that AFL is an intrinsically difficult game to umpire when compared, say, to soccer or cricket (and there is no shortage of controversies in those sports).

Yep, though some can't seem to get their head around this.

Just look at the NFL, richest sport in the world, seven on field officials + video officials with dozens of cameras and slow-mo replays + coach lead challenge system, and there are still bucket loads of controversial decisions and upset supporters every week.

It is impossible to have the perfect fool-proof system.

Yes ..... but surely you can see Curly's point as well - the happy ground is somewhere in the middle

You go to the footy expecting a certain level of interpretation of the rules and then get blatantly wrong ones (sometimes both ways) and have a right to vent that frustration

Curly wants steak - but keeps on being served sausages. You understand that the chef cannot cook steak so tries to satisfy his hunger with Snags

I agree with Meher - Umpiring was better when the umpires were beige
I distinctly remember a situation when the umpire was using the players name in calling the player back to the mark - he was using the wrong name - but still paid the 50

The forum is a place for venting and (as an ex umpire (jnr level)) I can see your point - I can also see the point that 3 umpires should be able to get their interpretation straight each week. What is paid a throw on the left of screen should also be a throw on the right.

Free kick counts do not need to even - but when you are consistently seeing missed ones and the stats show the same thing it is frustrating

When AGL charges you the wrong amount - you ring to complain - not to the board of AGL - but to the poor Customer Service Operator - most umpires are the CSO - however F@rking Razor (his correct title) thinks he speaks on behalf of the board

Umpires ARE NOT PERFECT and the miss stuff the same as players - but when the forum criticizes Higgins in the Collingwood game we accept that - when umpires continually put in shockers they should be held accountable - and no-one sees that happening

Umpiring would be so much more accepted if the umpires were held to account - publicly

AFL Umpires Rep should come out on Monday and say:
We had 195 decisions on the weekend - 180 were correct - however of the 15 we missed these were the reasons - etc
Open it up for discussion - have an umpires Q&A (Humphrey used to do this on SEN)

People would be more accepting

Instead we get that nothing is wrong - they justify each and every decision

If what we have is the best we are going to get (ie no one learns (supporters/players/umpires)) then how can we be accepting of mediocrity.

We cannot employ the umpires on a full time basis because (as I understand it) they already get a huge amount of money on a part time basis - who wants to pay an umpire $250K just to do a job he should be proficient at???

/end rant

I hear a lot of what you're saying and agree with some ideas (umpires addressing media) but there is a big flaw you are missing with your post...

Most supporters either don't know the rules or are unable to interpret them correctly due to their own significant bias.

It's that simple, and is why, no matter what, they will never be happy with the standard of umpiring.

Great example was at the end of the Freo game last week. The dangerous tackle free that was paid and lead to Freo's last goal was 100% correct, but it didn't stop many supporters losing their sh*t about it claiming it was "cheating", "guessing" or "100% wrong". Do you think they'll listen to an umpire explaining this in a press conference? No chance.

You tell those same people that since the stat has been recorded St Kilda is one of the most 'favoured' teams by the umpires and they don't care, they still claim we're hard done by.

The best method of dealing with it IMO is just to mostly ignore the umpiring. Be frustrated in the moment but don't carry on, understanding that just around the corner is an equally bad call that will go your way. Swings and roundabouts, it all evens out.

[CURLY]

I might add that AFL is an intrinsically difficult game to umpire when compared, say, to soccer or cricket (and there is no shortage of controversies in those sports).

Yep, though some can't seem to get their head around this.

Just look at the NFL, richest sport in the world, seven on field officials + video officials with dozens of cameras and slow-mo replays + coach lead challenge system, and there are still bucket loads of controversial decisions and upset supporters every week.

It is impossible to have the perfect fool-proof system.

Yes ..... but surely you can see Curly's point as well - the happy ground is somewhere in the middle

You go to the footy expecting a certain level of interpretation of the rules and then get blatantly wrong ones (sometimes both ways) and have a right to vent that frustration

Curly wants steak - but keeps on being served sausages. You understand that the chef cannot cook steak so tries to satisfy his hunger with Snags

I agree with Meher - Umpiring was better when the umpires were beige
I distinctly remember a situation when the umpire was using the players name in calling the player back to the mark - he was using the wrong name - but still paid the 50

The forum is a place for venting and (as an ex umpire (jnr level)) I can see your point - I can also see the point that 3 umpires should be able to get their interpretation straight each week. What is paid a throw on the left of screen should also be a throw on the right.

Free kick counts do not need to even - but when you are consistently seeing missed ones and the stats show the same thing it is frustrating

When AGL charges you the wrong amount - you ring to complain - not to the board of AGL - but to the poor Customer Service Operator - most umpires are the CSO - however F@rking Razor (his correct title) thinks he speaks on behalf of the board

Umpires ARE NOT PERFECT and the miss stuff the same as players - but when the forum criticizes Higgins in the Collingwood game we accept that - when umpires continually put in shockers they should be held accountable - and no-one sees that happening

Umpiring would be so much more accepted if the umpires were held to account - publicly

AFL Umpires Rep should come out on Monday and say:
We had 195 decisions on the weekend - 180 were correct - however of the 15 we missed these were the reasons - etc
Open it up for discussion - have an umpires Q&A (Humphrey used to do this on SEN)

People would be more accepting

Instead we get that nothing is wrong - they justify each and every decision

If what we have is the best we are going to get (ie no one learns (supporters/players/umpires)) then how can we be accepting of mediocrity.

We cannot employ the umpires on a full time basis because (as I understand it) they already get a huge amount of money on a part time basis - who wants to pay an umpire $250K just to do a job he should be proficient at???

/end rant

I hear a lot of what you're saying and agree with some ideas (umpires addressing media) but there is a big flaw you are missing with your post...

Most supporters either don't know the rules or are unable to interpret them correctly due to their own significant bias.

It's that simple, and is why, no matter what, they will never be happy with the standard of umpiring.

Great example was at the end of the Freo game last week. The dangerous tackle free that was paid and lead to Freo's last goal was 100% correct, but it didn't stop many supporters losing their sh*t about it claiming it was "cheating", "guessing" or "100% wrong". Do you think they'll listen to an umpire explaining this in a press conference? No chance.

You tell those same people that since the stat has been recorded St Kilda is one of the most 'favoured' teams by the umpires and they don't care, they still claim we're hard done by.

The best method of dealing with it IMO is just to mostly ignore the umpiring. Be frustrated in the moment but don't carry on, understanding that just around the corner is an equally bad call that will go your way. Swings and roundabouts, it all evens out.

What we want is a level playing field which we don't receive. The non free on Hayes with 4 minutes left is a perfect example. 100% A FREE in clear view of at least two umpire but ignored. WHY?

[Sainter_Dad]

I might add that AFL is an intrinsically difficult game to umpire when compared, say, to soccer or cricket (and there is no shortage of controversies in those sports).

Yep, though some can't seem to get their head around this.

Just look at the NFL, richest sport in the world, seven on field officials + video officials with dozens of cameras and slow-mo replays + coach lead challenge system, and there are still bucket loads of controversial decisions and upset supporters every week.

It is impossible to have the perfect fool-proof system.

Yes ..... but surely you can see Curly's point as well - the happy ground is somewhere in the middle

You go to the footy expecting a certain level of interpretation of the rules and then get blatantly wrong ones (sometimes both ways) and have a right to vent that frustration

Curly wants steak - but keeps on being served sausages. You understand that the chef cannot cook steak so tries to satisfy his hunger with Snags

I agree with Meher - Umpiring was better when the umpires were beige
I distinctly remember a situation when the umpire was using the players name in calling the player back to the mark - he was using the wrong name - but still paid the 50

The forum is a place for venting and (as an ex umpire (jnr level)) I can see your point - I can also see the point that 3 umpires should be able to get their interpretation straight each week. What is paid a throw on the left of screen should also be a throw on the right.

Free kick counts do not need to even - but when you are consistently seeing missed ones and the stats show the same thing it is frustrating

When AGL charges you the wrong amount - you ring to complain - not to the board of AGL - but to the poor Customer Service Operator - most umpires are the CSO - however F@rking Razor (his correct title) thinks he speaks on behalf of the board

Umpires ARE NOT PERFECT and the miss stuff the same as players - but when the forum criticizes Higgins in the Collingwood game we accept that - when umpires continually put in shockers they should be held accountable - and no-one sees that happening

Umpiring would be so much more accepted if the umpires were held to account - publicly

AFL Umpires Rep should come out on Monday and say:
We had 195 decisions on the weekend - 180 were correct - however of the 15 we missed these were the reasons - etc
Open it up for discussion - have an umpires Q&A (Humphrey used to do this on SEN)

People would be more accepting

Instead we get that nothing is wrong - they justify each and every decision

If what we have is the best we are going to get (ie no one learns (supporters/players/umpires)) then how can we be accepting of mediocrity.

We cannot employ the umpires on a full time basis because (as I understand it) they already get a huge amount of money on a part time basis - who wants to pay an umpire $250K just to do a job he should be proficient at???

/end rant

I hear a lot of what you're saying and agree with some ideas (umpires addressing media) but there is a big flaw you are missing with your post...

Most supporters either don't know the rules or are unable to interpret them correctly due to their own significant bias.

It's that simple, and is why, no matter what, they will never be happy with the standard of umpiring.

Great example was at the end of the Freo game last week. The dangerous tackle free that was paid and lead to Freo's last goal was 100% correct, but it didn't stop many supporters losing their sh*t about it claiming it was "cheating", "guessing" or "100% wrong". Do you think they'll listen to an umpire explaining this in a press conference? No chance.

You tell those same people that since the stat has been recorded St Kilda is one of the most 'favoured' teams by the umpires and they don't care, they still claim we're hard done by.

The best method of dealing with it IMO is just to mostly ignore the umpiring. Be frustrated in the moment but don't carry on, understanding that just around the corner is an equally bad call that will go your way. Swings and roundabouts, it all evens out.

Or by the umpires being more accountable - educates the masses and at the same time lets the umpires understand our frustrations

Telling people "that since the stat has been recorded St Kilda is one of the most 'favoured' teams by the umpires" is irrelevant - that is like saying there was steak delivered last week - but you still have to have sausages today

Umpires get things wrong - telling people to understand the rules that are technically correct is like issuing a fine for backing out of your driveway - technically it is a fine - but it is not 'seen' as being an infringement

Remove the concept of 'technically' there and pay what is actually there - was the Freo player actually slung/dangerously tackled - no - the elements were there for it to be considered but it did not happen

Does touching someone on the shoulder but not impacting the play affect the outcome (esp if the opposition is the one to move the hand there) - nope - but it gets paid (see Selwood)

Forget the rules - the umpires should umpire to the result - was the player impeded - yes - pay a free - I don't care if you call it holding the man/unfair tackle/potato peeling - that is irrelevant
Impede a player from having a fair attempt at doing an action - free kick against
Incorrectly dispose of the ball whilst being tackled - free kick against
Dangerous Action (and we all know what they are) - free kick against

Everything else - let the game play on