When is a rebuild not a real rebuild?
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 12214
- Joined: Thu 04 Jul 2019 8:53pm
- Has thanked: 5 times
- Been thanked: 2631 times
Re: When is a rebuild not a real rebuild?
Are Collingwood rebuilding?
They traded in Pat Lipinski
Are North Rebuilding
They traded in Callum Coleman Jones
Did we rebuild in 2001
We traded in Fraser, Hamill, Black, Penny
Rebuilding doesn’t mean pick 10 kids in the draft
It means turn over players
As we did in 2020 - you can do that in a variety of ways
They traded in Pat Lipinski
Are North Rebuilding
They traded in Callum Coleman Jones
Did we rebuild in 2001
We traded in Fraser, Hamill, Black, Penny
Rebuilding doesn’t mean pick 10 kids in the draft
It means turn over players
As we did in 2020 - you can do that in a variety of ways
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 707
- Joined: Fri 28 Sep 2012 4:53pm
- Has thanked: 4 times
- Been thanked: 43 times
Re: When is a rebuild not a real rebuild?
cwrcyn wrote: ↑Tue 22 Mar 2022 1:56pm 2019 was all about trying to address the debacle under Pelchen and Elshaug. We had boxed ourselves into a corner and were heading south big time. Something had to be done. In 2019 we got Howard, Hill, Jones, Ryder, Butler, Byrnes, and Connolly. Now, I know we gave up picks, but I think that's a pretty good outcome. That's seven players that are AFL standard. In any single year, a club does well to get two.
From 2018 onward, we have secured these players. A far cry from the shocking years under Pelchen and Elshaug
King.....great selection
Bytel ....highly touted to go top ten in the draft before his injury
Hannebery...Hmmm big fail due to injuries
Wilkie...great selection
Howard...Solid 200cm fullback...very difficult to secure key defenders of this height
Ryder...steak knives bonus in Howard deal. When fit, has been a star
Butler... gave up pick 53 for him. Pretty good deal for us
Hill .... fine player, we just don't use him well
Jones... effectively a swap for Josh Bruce....fair trade
Byrnes...in July of his draft year he was rated in top 15. We got him at pick 52. Still think he'll be a player
Connolly.. second last pick in the 2019 draft...has shown very promising signs
Crouch...a freebie...still has 4 years of football in him
Higgins... got him for a second rounder. He's a talent.
Highmore....pick 45 in 2020. A find
Allison ...2nd rounder in 2021...jury is out
Wood...got him for nothing. Handy back up
Sharman... mid season 2021. Looks a player
Heath...mid season 2021...at last a young ruckman with real promise and grunt
Wanganeen-Milera...obvious talent
Owens....highly rated
Windhager....rated
Hayes...bonus pick up. Looks a find
Peris...speculative
Kyle...speculative
Good summary we’re building ..personally rate Kyle highly also really like the look of Oscar Adams..great
endurance runner for his size, kicks the ball well & nice mark, all about development.
Always thought Peris might struggle given his size but the kid is hungry and impressive runner with again good kicking
skills…
My beef was going recycled older players like Mckernan..Frawley .
Big fan of Bytel.
- Impatient Sainter
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 4089
- Joined: Tue 05 Apr 2016 3:30pm
- Has thanked: 2622 times
- Been thanked: 1077 times
Re: When is a rebuild not a real rebuild?
You dont and cant know that and please keep your overly negative attitude off the forum.SunnyErnie wrote: ↑Wed 23 Mar 2022 12:14amNorth will be top 4 within 3 years. We are refining nothing.Impatient Sainter wrote: ↑Tue 22 Mar 2022 10:00pmOr they could be like Melbourne in the early 2000's completely bottom out, have a heap of early draft picks with no older blokes to drive the club and the culture sucked...so the club continued to fail. There is a balance to all list builds we are still refining it.SunnyErnie wrote: ↑Tue 22 Mar 2022 9:44pmI disagree very strongly with this statement. Have a look at North Melbourne. They stripped it right back and are now picking up the best young talent. As I said, in a couple of years they will zoom past us and be challenging again. Mark my words!!!Impatient Sainter wrote: ↑Tue 22 Mar 2022 3:16pmTotally agree mate. I think the days of a complete bottom out, to go completely with a youth rebuid are well past. 4-5 years ago we were in the unique position of having a shyte list and being financially reliant on the AFL. We simply couldn't afford financially for the team to bottom out.cwrcyn wrote: ↑Tue 22 Mar 2022 2:05pm The reality is, any list build has to be a balance between draft and trade selections. We have scope for improvement with a number of young players aged 22 or younger (Clark, Higgins, Coffield, King, Byrnes, Connolly, Bytel, Sharman, Heath, Wanganeen-Milera, Owens, Winghager, Adama, and Allison. That's 14 players aged 22 or younger, excluding Peris and Kyle. We will go to the draft again this year and pick up three or four more youngsters.
All in all, it could have been a whole lot worse considering the had we had since the end of season 2018. In Four draft/trade periods the club has been bold and has for the most part succeeded.
We're all unhappy at the moment, but I think we need to stand back and really look at the overall picture since the departure of Elshaug. From my point of view, I think the club has done pretty well
The consequences are we have been a middle of road side, but with some luck and smart drafting/trading moving forward things can be turned around quickly.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23218
- Joined: Sat 13 Mar 2004 11:44pm
- Has thanked: 735 times
- Been thanked: 1778 times
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23051
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 3:53pm
- Has thanked: 8972 times
- Been thanked: 3902 times
Re: When is a rebuild not a real rebuild?
Well, off you go. Go and support the roos. Maybe you do already.SunnyErnie wrote: ↑Wed 23 Mar 2022 12:14amNorth will be top 4 within 3 years. We are refining nothing.Impatient Sainter wrote: ↑Tue 22 Mar 2022 10:00pmOr they could be like Melbourne in the early 2000's completely bottom out, have a heap of early draft picks with no older blokes to drive the club and the culture sucked...so the club continued to fail. There is a balance to all list builds we are still refining it.SunnyErnie wrote: ↑Tue 22 Mar 2022 9:44pmI disagree very strongly with this statement. Have a look at North Melbourne. They stripped it right back and are now picking up the best young talent. As I said, in a couple of years they will zoom past us and be challenging again. Mark my words!!!Impatient Sainter wrote: ↑Tue 22 Mar 2022 3:16pmTotally agree mate. I think the days of a complete bottom out, to go completely with a youth rebuid are well past. 4-5 years ago we were in the unique position of having a shyte list and being financially reliant on the AFL. We simply couldn't afford financially for the team to bottom out.cwrcyn wrote: ↑Tue 22 Mar 2022 2:05pm The reality is, any list build has to be a balance between draft and trade selections. We have scope for improvement with a number of young players aged 22 or younger (Clark, Higgins, Coffield, King, Byrnes, Connolly, Bytel, Sharman, Heath, Wanganeen-Milera, Owens, Winghager, Adama, and Allison. That's 14 players aged 22 or younger, excluding Peris and Kyle. We will go to the draft again this year and pick up three or four more youngsters.
All in all, it could have been a whole lot worse considering the had we had since the end of season 2018. In Four draft/trade periods the club has been bold and has for the most part succeeded.
We're all unhappy at the moment, but I think we need to stand back and really look at the overall picture since the departure of Elshaug. From my point of view, I think the club has done pretty well
The consequences are we have been a middle of road side, but with some luck and smart drafting/trading moving forward things can be turned around quickly.
30 crap posts out of 30 must be a new record even for this forum.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 10598
- Joined: Tue 14 Jun 2005 7:04pm
- Location: North
- Has thanked: 1011 times
- Been thanked: 1055 times
Re: When is a rebuild not a real rebuild?
Leave out the personal attacks please. If there's an issue with a post, report it.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23051
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 3:53pm
- Has thanked: 8972 times
- Been thanked: 3902 times
Re: When is a rebuild not a real rebuild?
![Rolling Eyes :roll:](./images/smilies/icon_rolleyes.gif)
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 10598
- Joined: Tue 14 Jun 2005 7:04pm
- Location: North
- Has thanked: 1011 times
- Been thanked: 1055 times
Re: When is a rebuild not a real rebuild?
"30 crap posts out of 30". It's belittling and a personal attack.
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 1029
- Joined: Sun 20 Mar 2022 6:05pm
- Has thanked: 195 times
- Been thanked: 68 times
Re: When is a rebuild not a real rebuild?
I'm not being negative at all. It's my honest assessment. You should be directing your attacks to people that are posting no man's land not me!Impatient Sainter wrote: ↑Wed 23 Mar 2022 11:06amYou dont and cant know that and please keep your overly negative attitude off the forum.SunnyErnie wrote: ↑Wed 23 Mar 2022 12:14amNorth will be top 4 within 3 years. We are refining nothing.Impatient Sainter wrote: ↑Tue 22 Mar 2022 10:00pmOr they could be like Melbourne in the early 2000's completely bottom out, have a heap of early draft picks with no older blokes to drive the club and the culture sucked...so the club continued to fail. There is a balance to all list builds we are still refining it.SunnyErnie wrote: ↑Tue 22 Mar 2022 9:44pmI disagree very strongly with this statement. Have a look at North Melbourne. They stripped it right back and are now picking up the best young talent. As I said, in a couple of years they will zoom past us and be challenging again. Mark my words!!!Impatient Sainter wrote: ↑Tue 22 Mar 2022 3:16pmTotally agree mate. I think the days of a complete bottom out, to go completely with a youth rebuid are well past. 4-5 years ago we were in the unique position of having a shyte list and being financially reliant on the AFL. We simply couldn't afford financially for the team to bottom out.cwrcyn wrote: ↑Tue 22 Mar 2022 2:05pm The reality is, any list build has to be a balance between draft and trade selections. We have scope for improvement with a number of young players aged 22 or younger (Clark, Higgins, Coffield, King, Byrnes, Connolly, Bytel, Sharman, Heath, Wanganeen-Milera, Owens, Winghager, Adama, and Allison. That's 14 players aged 22 or younger, excluding Peris and Kyle. We will go to the draft again this year and pick up three or four more youngsters.
All in all, it could have been a whole lot worse considering the had we had since the end of season 2018. In Four draft/trade periods the club has been bold and has for the most part succeeded.
We're all unhappy at the moment, but I think we need to stand back and really look at the overall picture since the departure of Elshaug. From my point of view, I think the club has done pretty well
The consequences are we have been a middle of road side, but with some luck and smart drafting/trading moving forward things can be turned around quickly.
St Kilda should never trade with Essendon and Sydney ever again!!!
NeXus
NeXus
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 1029
- Joined: Sun 20 Mar 2022 6:05pm
- Has thanked: 195 times
- Been thanked: 68 times
Re: When is a rebuild not a real rebuild?
I'm a passionate Saints supporter thank you very much. I just wish that we went about our rebuild the way North are doing it. Why the hate?saynta wrote: ↑Wed 23 Mar 2022 11:11amWell, off you go. Go and support the roos. Maybe you do already.SunnyErnie wrote: ↑Wed 23 Mar 2022 12:14amNorth will be top 4 within 3 years. We are refining nothing.Impatient Sainter wrote: ↑Tue 22 Mar 2022 10:00pmOr they could be like Melbourne in the early 2000's completely bottom out, have a heap of early draft picks with no older blokes to drive the club and the culture sucked...so the club continued to fail. There is a balance to all list builds we are still refining it.SunnyErnie wrote: ↑Tue 22 Mar 2022 9:44pmI disagree very strongly with this statement. Have a look at North Melbourne. They stripped it right back and are now picking up the best young talent. As I said, in a couple of years they will zoom past us and be challenging again. Mark my words!!!Impatient Sainter wrote: ↑Tue 22 Mar 2022 3:16pmTotally agree mate. I think the days of a complete bottom out, to go completely with a youth rebuid are well past. 4-5 years ago we were in the unique position of having a shyte list and being financially reliant on the AFL. We simply couldn't afford financially for the team to bottom out.cwrcyn wrote: ↑Tue 22 Mar 2022 2:05pm The reality is, any list build has to be a balance between draft and trade selections. We have scope for improvement with a number of young players aged 22 or younger (Clark, Higgins, Coffield, King, Byrnes, Connolly, Bytel, Sharman, Heath, Wanganeen-Milera, Owens, Winghager, Adama, and Allison. That's 14 players aged 22 or younger, excluding Peris and Kyle. We will go to the draft again this year and pick up three or four more youngsters.
All in all, it could have been a whole lot worse considering the had we had since the end of season 2018. In Four draft/trade periods the club has been bold and has for the most part succeeded.
We're all unhappy at the moment, but I think we need to stand back and really look at the overall picture since the departure of Elshaug. From my point of view, I think the club has done pretty well
The consequences are we have been a middle of road side, but with some luck and smart drafting/trading moving forward things can be turned around quickly.
30 crap posts out of 30 must be a new record even for this forum.
I was just pointing out that the days of completely bottoming out are not a thing of the past as per the above post is stating.
St Kilda should never trade with Essendon and Sydney ever again!!!
NeXus
NeXus
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 4949
- Joined: Tue 13 Jun 2017 1:16pm
- Has thanked: 1419 times
- Been thanked: 1444 times
Re: When is a rebuild not a real rebuild?
Fail to Succeed.
Brilliant.
Certainly takes the pressure off everyone.
What do you think ChrisP.
Tanking in all forms is abhorrent. Would never be party to such foolishness. Anyway what club would fall for it.
Still it apparently will guarantee a flag in 3 years. Comes with a bridge over the harbour.
Brilliant.
Certainly takes the pressure off everyone.
What do you think ChrisP.
Tanking in all forms is abhorrent. Would never be party to such foolishness. Anyway what club would fall for it.
Still it apparently will guarantee a flag in 3 years. Comes with a bridge over the harbour.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 4272
- Joined: Fri 15 Sep 2006 10:35am
- Location: earth
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 1409 times
Re: When is a rebuild not a real rebuild?
The North model may work, but if you look at the premiership teams of the past 20 years, those teams have traded a few players in.
Look at Melbourne. May, Lever, Hibberd, Langdon ,and Tomlinson.
Richmond: Caddy, Lynch, Nankervis, Prestia
You have to have a few, otherwise the rebuild takes 7 or 8 years instead of 4 or 5. Depends how long you want to be patient
Our success in the 2000s had a lot to do with players from other clubs: Voss, Gehrig, Gram, Young, Hamill, etc
The reality is that only 2 out of every 5 selections in the national draft will make it, and only one will end up being a 200 game player, if you're lucky. If things don't work out for a year or two with your drafting, it'll end up being a 10 year rebuild with no guarantees, and that is really horrible. If you get it wrong, you have to start all over again.
Look at Melbourne. May, Lever, Hibberd, Langdon ,and Tomlinson.
Richmond: Caddy, Lynch, Nankervis, Prestia
You have to have a few, otherwise the rebuild takes 7 or 8 years instead of 4 or 5. Depends how long you want to be patient
Our success in the 2000s had a lot to do with players from other clubs: Voss, Gehrig, Gram, Young, Hamill, etc
The reality is that only 2 out of every 5 selections in the national draft will make it, and only one will end up being a 200 game player, if you're lucky. If things don't work out for a year or two with your drafting, it'll end up being a 10 year rebuild with no guarantees, and that is really horrible. If you get it wrong, you have to start all over again.