Mids
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 1404
- Joined: Fri 26 May 2006 4:29pm
- Has thanked: 31 times
- Been thanked: 132 times
Re: Mids
He may be injured most of the time but he is not a "shell" of the player he was.bangaulegend wrote: ↑Sat 27 Nov 2021 10:28pm100% agree Hanna's is shell of the player he was & won't be part of our push to win a flag so give Byrnes a chance to see what he has to offerBanger9798 wrote: ↑Sat 27 Nov 2021 10:08pm If our window opens in 2024-26
We are better off playing Byrnes over Hannaberry
He won our 2021 time trial and he was best 2 in our last final's win. If he could stay on park he would be great. I am amazed how well he does with so limited games.
- skeptic
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 16888
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 7:10pm
- Has thanked: 3580 times
- Been thanked: 2846 times
Re: Mids
He’s been ok in the majority of games he’s played and that finals game has turned into the most overrated patch of football since Luke Balls 1st half GF
- samoht
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 5820
- Joined: Sun 14 Mar 2004 10:45am
- Location: https://www.amazon.com.au/Fugitive-Sold ... B00EO1GCNK
- Has thanked: 598 times
- Been thanked: 447 times
- Contact:
Re: Mids
We need to get away from playing 3 or more small forwards. The sooner we can do that, the better.
As long as there's a plan to play as many of the new midfielders/playmakers as soon as is practicable "when they deserve to be played" (maybe as flankers or mid-sized forwards initially). That's what I'm hoping for.
Playing 3 or more small forwards is just too many (especially in the finals - where they will just get outmarked and brushed outside too easily, and where we'll need playmakers, not "finishers" - who just sit back and wait for the ball to arrive) - and let's not forget that Gresham is returning too, who's potentially our best small forward.
I think for team balance, some of our new midfielders might even have to come in "early" anyway to replace a couple of our small forwards - as playing 4 small forwards would not be good for the team.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23010
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 3:53pm
- Has thanked: 8903 times
- Been thanked: 3883 times
Re: Mids
I agree with you. That was a ridiculous statement to make. Way off the mark.Shaggy wrote: ↑Sun 28 Nov 2021 11:26pmHe may be injured most of the time but he is not a "shell" of the player he was.bangaulegend wrote: ↑Sat 27 Nov 2021 10:28pm100% agree Hanna's is shell of the player he was & won't be part of our push to win a flag so give Byrnes a chance to see what he has to offerBanger9798 wrote: ↑Sat 27 Nov 2021 10:08pm If our window opens in 2024-26
We are better off playing Byrnes over Hannaberry
He won our 2021 time trial and he was best 2 in our last final's win. If he could stay on park he would be great. I am amazed how well he does with so limited games.
- Ghost Like
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 6562
- Joined: Wed 19 Sep 2007 10:04pm
- Has thanked: 5788 times
- Been thanked: 1909 times
Re: Mids
Surely if Gresham and Higgins both desire to run through the midfield then that leaves Butler as our only specialist small forward in our best 22.
Until we have a small forward who can produce a better season than Butler's 2020, the position is his. That's actually produce, not potentially produce.
It's an important position, too important to become a graveyard for a young developing mid.
Until we have a small forward who can produce a better season than Butler's 2020, the position is his. That's actually produce, not potentially produce.
It's an important position, too important to become a graveyard for a young developing mid.
-
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2060
- Joined: Fri 07 Jun 2013 1:03pm
- Has thanked: 218 times
- Been thanked: 343 times
Re: Mids
We're giving him a years grace, are we, pretend last year didn't happen? Let's play someone who betters his 2021. It'll be a novelty for us but I'm hopeful we might start selecting players based on current form rather than vague recollections of how they once kicked this really good goal.Ghost Like wrote: ↑Mon 29 Nov 2021 1:20pm Surely if Gresham and Higgins both desire to run through the midfield then that leaves Butler as our only specialist small forward in our best 22.
Until we have a small forward who can produce a better season than Butler's 2020, the position is his. That's actually produce, not potentially produce.
It's an important position, too important to become a graveyard for a young developing mid.
- Ghost Like
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 6562
- Joined: Wed 19 Sep 2007 10:04pm
- Has thanked: 5788 times
- Been thanked: 1909 times
Re: Mids
As soon as someone's exposed and current form is better, by all means. Sadly as bad as his 2021 was in comparison to his 2020 no one took their opportunity to take the position from him.freely wrote: ↑Mon 29 Nov 2021 2:12pmWe're giving him a years grace, are we, pretend last year didn't happen? Let's play someone who betters his 2021. It'll be a novelty for us but I'm hopeful we might start selecting players based on current form rather than vague recollections of how they once kicked this really good goal.Ghost Like wrote: ↑Mon 29 Nov 2021 1:20pm Surely if Gresham and Higgins both desire to run through the midfield then that leaves Butler as our only specialist small forward in our best 22.
Until we have a small forward who can produce a better season than Butler's 2020, the position is his. That's actually produce, not potentially produce.
It's an important position, too important to become a graveyard for a young developing mid.
- Impatient Sainter
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 4089
- Joined: Tue 05 Apr 2016 3:30pm
- Has thanked: 2622 times
- Been thanked: 1077 times
Re: Mids
Butlers scoring was down last season but he was one of the best pressure small forwards all year. Sometimes players do a lot of unrecognised work spectators dont notice, but are highly rated by coaches.freely wrote: ↑Mon 29 Nov 2021 2:12pmWe're giving him a years grace, are we, pretend last year didn't happen? Let's play someone who betters his 2021. It'll be a novelty for us but I'm hopeful we might start selecting players based on current form rather than vague recollections of how they once kicked this really good goal.Ghost Like wrote: ↑Mon 29 Nov 2021 1:20pm Surely if Gresham and Higgins both desire to run through the midfield then that leaves Butler as our only specialist small forward in our best 22.
Until we have a small forward who can produce a better season than Butler's 2020, the position is his. That's actually produce, not potentially produce.
It's an important position, too important to become a graveyard for a young developing mid.
- samoht
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 5820
- Joined: Sun 14 Mar 2004 10:45am
- Location: https://www.amazon.com.au/Fugitive-Sold ... B00EO1GCNK
- Has thanked: 598 times
- Been thanked: 447 times
- Contact:
- samoht
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 5820
- Joined: Sun 14 Mar 2004 10:45am
- Location: https://www.amazon.com.au/Fugitive-Sold ... B00EO1GCNK
- Has thanked: 598 times
- Been thanked: 447 times
- Contact:
Re: Mids
Gresham and Higgins will also spend time forward ... and with Butler that makes 3 small forwards?'Ghost Like wrote: ↑Mon 29 Nov 2021 1:20pm Surely if Gresham and Higgins both desire to run through the midfield then that leaves Butler as our only specialist small forward in our best 22.
Until we have a small forward who can produce a better season than Butler's 2020, the position is his. That's actually produce, not potentially produce.
It's an important position, too important to become a graveyard for a young developing mid.
All 3 will generally be forward of centre.
I feel Butler might come under pressure - purely from a team balance point of view. Too many smalls?
There''ll be an opportunity for 1 maybe 2 mid sized players to come in and balance things out - if they are good enough, granted.
Let's hope that they are.
- skeptic
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 16888
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 7:10pm
- Has thanked: 3580 times
- Been thanked: 2846 times
Re: Mids
Unlike Kent and Lonie before he was cut... Butler has a few features to his game that sees him able to contribute even if he’s not kicking goals.
Work rate has already been highlighted... speed, disposal and creativity are big pluses too
Bad as his season was... he was better then just about any season those two put together.
Work rate has already been highlighted... speed, disposal and creativity are big pluses too
Bad as his season was... he was better then just about any season those two put together.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23208
- Joined: Sat 13 Mar 2004 11:44pm
- Has thanked: 735 times
- Been thanked: 1776 times
Re: Mids
Lol Luke Ball was THE difference apparently between Gary Ablett tie poke and Chapman getting off the leash...
Folk lore on a GF loss to some muppets..lol
“Yeah….nah””
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23010
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 3:53pm
- Has thanked: 8903 times
- Been thanked: 3883 times
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 11551
- Joined: Sun 11 Sep 2011 2:26pm
- Has thanked: 3522 times
- Been thanked: 2464 times
Re: Mids
Quarter by quarter scoring breakdown for GF 2009
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... d=4960#brk
Take note of ‘final quarter’ stats. Even if you exclude the gift that JBlake gave them by not manning the mark for the final kick it STILL looks like St Kilda ran out of gas rather than Geelong were a better team. They kicked 3 goals 4 behinds to our 3 solitary points.
If you take it a step back to the last handful of games in H&A you see that we busted our arses in round 16, 17 and 18 which was the wrong strategy leading into finals. We already had a top 2 place guaranteed. We needed to take it easy from round 16 onwards AND not from round 19 or 20 onwards (that’s way too close to finals).
Lyon was instructing his players in rounds 21 and 22 not to go too hard. That’s ok from an injury perspective, but not ideal if you want the best practice simulation in games and the best form leading into finals.
The signs were clear that there was going to be a price to pay for peaking too early in the season and not managing your stars. The coach conceded that his players needed a rest BUT the fool did it too late. We lost momentum and many players struggled to recapture their best form. On top of that you see statistics in that last half of the GF that highlight a coach with a defensive mindset and a focus on restricting the opposition rather than creating scoring opportunities
https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_ ... d=4960#brk
Take note of ‘final quarter’ stats. Even if you exclude the gift that JBlake gave them by not manning the mark for the final kick it STILL looks like St Kilda ran out of gas rather than Geelong were a better team. They kicked 3 goals 4 behinds to our 3 solitary points.
If you take it a step back to the last handful of games in H&A you see that we busted our arses in round 16, 17 and 18 which was the wrong strategy leading into finals. We already had a top 2 place guaranteed. We needed to take it easy from round 16 onwards AND not from round 19 or 20 onwards (that’s way too close to finals).
Lyon was instructing his players in rounds 21 and 22 not to go too hard. That’s ok from an injury perspective, but not ideal if you want the best practice simulation in games and the best form leading into finals.
The signs were clear that there was going to be a price to pay for peaking too early in the season and not managing your stars. The coach conceded that his players needed a rest BUT the fool did it too late. We lost momentum and many players struggled to recapture their best form. On top of that you see statistics in that last half of the GF that highlight a coach with a defensive mindset and a focus on restricting the opposition rather than creating scoring opportunities
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 4895
- Joined: Tue 13 Jun 2017 1:16pm
- Has thanked: 1410 times
- Been thanked: 1429 times
Re: Mids
Oh the unfairness.
When we had a barrow load of half backs and no mids there was always a desperate chance a HB could run through the middle;
now we have more mids than HBs, but excess mids won't get a HB gig. We have specialists for that.
See what happens with a professional recruitment approach.
You get what you wish for.
When we had a barrow load of half backs and no mids there was always a desperate chance a HB could run through the middle;
now we have more mids than HBs, but excess mids won't get a HB gig. We have specialists for that.
See what happens with a professional recruitment approach.
You get what you wish for.
- skeptic
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 16888
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 7:10pm
- Has thanked: 3580 times
- Been thanked: 2846 times
Re: Mids
No amount of rationalisation will alter my opinion that picking more limited players reliant solely on their ability to get onto the end of opportunities created by others, that don’t have the flexibility/ability to contribute in other ways... opposed to having other players that have that skill set but can also push into the midfield, is a good strategy
Heaven knows what will convince you if actually sitting down and watching it play out and fail miserably over 5 years hasn’t.
Heaven knows what will convince you if actually sitting down and watching it play out and fail miserably over 5 years hasn’t.