why-st-kilda-should-give-coach-brett-ratten-the-ultimate-show-of-faith

[saynta]

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/ ... f727246b90

[Vortex]

Hey Saynta can you post the article as it is protected by a paywall

[saynta]

Hey Saynta can you post the article as it is protected by a paywall

Check your pm box.

[Rubyjo]

What's the point of posting it if no one can read it ...if you have a subscription you have probably already read it.

[B.M]

Would NOT re-sign him until at least R16

We’ve made that mistake before

No finals, no contract… and we give Clarko an offer he won’t refuse!!!

No more Mr Nice Guy

If we do extend him not, it confirms that we are still mediocre

[Waltzing St Kilda]

This push is coming from supporters of other clubs who rather like the idea of Ratten ensconced at the helm of St Kilda.

Nice guy. Good story. No sign (yet) that he's going to make the Saints a serious threat.

In reality, re-signing him now would be another Richo-era mistake. Which is why Finnis will probably fall for it.

[kosifantutti]

What's the point of posting it if no one can read it ...if you have a subscription you have probably already read it.

I assume some people have subscriptions but are not aware of the article.

[shanegrambeau]

I can’t tell what Ratten has done wrong and what he has done right.

His selection choices raise the odd eyebrow..

As I said in the other thread….our 2017 team did better than our 2021 team did….

…and only 11/47 from that list remain now in Nov 2021.


If anyone knows what Ratten has done right, righter than Richo, do tell…

Selecting Newnes? I give you Kent.

[Teflon]

Would NOT re-sign him until at least R16

We’ve made that mistake before

No finals, no contract… and we give Clarko an offer he won’t refuse!!!

No more Mr Nice Guy

If we do extend him not, it confirms that we are still mediocre

Finally!
Something we agree on
Do not care what media say they can get forked
I would not sign him till late in season
His record doesn’t warrant leaps of faith yet

[st.byron]

Would NOT re-sign him until at least R16

We’ve made that mistake before

No finals, no contract… and we give Clarko an offer he won’t refuse!!!

No more Mr Nice Guy

If we do extend him not, it confirms that we are still mediocre

Finally!
Something we agree on
Do not care what media say they can get forked
I would not sign him till late in season
His record doesn’t warrant leaps of faith yet

Yes agree. Jury is still out. And as others have said, some baffling selection decisions........and those shellackings we copped this year - they didn't inspire confidence in his ability to lead. Def need to wait until we see how 2022 pans out.

[Scollop]

I can’t tell what Ratten has done wrong and what he has done right.

His selection choices raise the odd eyebrow..

As I said in the other thread….our 2017 team did better than our 2021 team did….

…and only 11/47 from that list remain now in Nov 2021.


If anyone knows what Ratten has done right, righter than Richo, do tell…

Selecting Newnes? I give you Kent.

I think when the club hierarchy decided to turn over the list as quickly as they have and with a lot of ready made players, it is bound to take a while to form the connection and the bonds within a group.

You have a situation last year in 2020 where the players were in a 'camp' like environment which is very structured and you do as your leaders tell you.

When we made finals I reckon Ratts showed what he can do to galvanise the group.

Why didn't he have the same success this year?

Maybe as one of our former greats suggested, we have recruited one or two blokes with 'full bellies' and perhaps the attitude and the hunger isn't what it should be.

Also the younger blokes didn't have a structured set routine each day in 2021 and I think a few of them like Coff found it harder this year

I am sure Ratts can do it again in 2022. Hopefully Steele and the leaders there since 2017 plus some of the young leaders like Dougs, Wilkie (as well as a few of our emerging young stars like King and Bytel) will drive and motivate the whole group and ...perhaps carry along some of those blokes with full bellies

[Ghost Like]

No rush to sign him until he makes 2021 an apparition. He has 2022 to do that. I think he's the right person but we must learn, at some point, from our dismal history of not knowing when to sign coaches.

Let's put it this way, if Ratts & the Club has a good year I cannot see him going elsewhere, especially while the likes of Clarkson & Buckley (not that I rate him) are available. This is an each way article, a chance to criticise St Kilda for actually doing the smart thing. Anyone can write an article when we stuff up a coach signing.

[spert]

For whatever reasons or excuses, we went backwards this season on the back of many ordinary or just plain bad performances. Injuries aside, we didn't look well prepared physically or systematically and I would not be in a hurry to extend Ratten's contract yet.

[Vortex]

There's absolutely no doubt at all injuries played a significant role in the sharp decline in our performance this. We had the worst/longest injury list in the comp. So there's that.

However the injuries also exposed our severe lack of list depth especially for key positions. It is the clubs biggest vulnerability. We could clone Norm Smith, Allan Jean's, Leigh Mathews and Alastair Clarkson into one super coach and give him the job next near but we will still be bottom 8 if our list vulnerability is exposed again by injury.

We also are a little mentally fragile and we still haven't fixed our weakness of on field leadership, for a few years now teams have been able to strong arm us and take the game away from us in under 5 to 10 minutes of play, this year it was much worse which was evident in several thrashings. You could argue in a few games the script was flipped and we only gave a yelp for 5 to 10 minutes for the entirety of a match.

All the murmurings and optics possibly tell us Ratts main area of improvement is in player accountability and selection integrity. Cuddles are nice but probably time to show a harder edge when needed. Publicly declaring Hill would not get dropped was a mistake. On the other hand it was a tough year with Sandy not being operable so an out of form Hill might have been a better option than a VFL player who hadn't kicked a ball in anger for 2 years.

Let's hope COvID doesn't effect 2022 and the VFL and that we have a good run with injuries to give Ratts the best fighting chance. No excuses if that happens.

[Sanctorum]

There's absolutely no doubt at all injuries played a significant role in the sharp decline in our performance this. We had the worst/longest injury list in the comp. So there's that.

However the injuries also exposed our severe lack of list depth especially for key positions. It is the clubs biggest vulnerability. We could clone Norm Smith, Allan Jean's, Leigh Mathews and Alastair Clarkson into one super coach and give him the job next near but we will still be bottom 8 if our list vulnerability is exposed again by injury.

We also are a little mentally fragile and we still haven't fixed our weakness of on field leadership, for a few years now teams have been able to strong arm us and take the game away from us in under 5 to 10 minutes of play, this year it was much worse which was evident in several thrashings. You could argue in a few games the script was flipped and we only gave a yelp for 5 to 10 minutes for the entirety of a match.

All the murmurings and optics possibly tell us Ratts main area of improvement is in player accountability and selection integrity. Cuddles are nice but probably time to show a harder edge when needed. Publicly declaring Hill would not get dropped was a mistake. On the other hand it was a tough year with Sandy not being operable so an out of form Hill might have been a better option than a VFL player who hadn't kicked a ball in anger for 2 years.

Let's hope COvID doesn't effect 2022 and the VFL and that we have a good run with injuries to give Ratts the best fighting chance. No excuses if that happens.

Good analysis. It's very much the mental fragility of the players and weak on field leadership that must be fixed if our team is going to turn things around in 2022.

The ball is entirely in Ratten's court to address these issues as a priority if he is going to lead this group deep into finals - it's why it would be foolhardy for the club to consider his future as senior coach until July at the earliest.

[shanegrambeau]

It must be strange time to be a coach. This generation of coaches were brought in a more autocratic system, a skinnier pyramid of power? A chief honcho and his helpers. Nowadays, is it even Ratts's fault if the playing group turn up unfit like they did this season? A sense of mental fragility? Whose is in charge of that? The Club Psychology department? Obviously, I am being a little facetious, and perhaps Covid temporarily pushed us back to an 'ol skool skinnier system?

If we are not aerobically fit? Ratts 50% responsibility
If we stricken with soft-tissue injury? Ratts 30%
If we are mentally fragile? Ratts 50%?
If we don't want to play for family reasons or just quit our contract mid-season leaving the team with no spare defender? Ratts.. 2%?
If the fans perceive we are giving up mid-game?

[Yorkeys]

Thought worst contextual losses were Carlton, followed by Cairns game (crap conditions, player disruptions, moron umpire, but thought Ratts might have been able to get us to hang on in FNQ). Also very disappointed in letting Geelong lead evaporate but it was an ok performance getting to 14 points at Geelong at the pointy end.

I doubt former super coach Clarko could have got us wins with no rucks and misfiring forwards against a couple of those class sides in form; such games can became blowouts as we saw; coaches are not miracle workers. (Yes even you Grant).

Have no problem offering Ratts an extension of a couple of years that is performance linked in a reasonable way. I think he is great and we are lucky. Don't forget door swings both ways - would not be surprised if Carlton or Suns start sounding him out about September 1, 2022.

The old list has been culled, the remaining list has had their cards marked; at least one superstar has emerged, Gresh, Paton and Clark will be back. Have recruited well. Very well. Reached a dark trough and Ratts pulled us back up. New assistants. Only way to look is forward, I think. With an upwards aspect.

[Devilhead]

Carlton kicked 18.4 .... their most accurate scoring (15+ shots at goal) in 124 years of football ..... we had 1 less scoring shot but could not get scoreboard pressure on them due to their freak shooting for goal ..... they kicked 4 from outside 50 ..... 2 from on the 50 and couple from deep in the pocket

Dogs lost to Melbourne by 74pts in the biggest game of the year - was that a fitness or a mental problem?

IMHO our big losses this year were mental application compounded by key player losses more than a lack of fitness ..... did we lack fitness when we beat GWS away in Rd 1 or over ran West Coast in Rd 4 or whacked Hawthorn in Rd 7?

We get bit of luck next year on the injury front and hardened up mentally, along with a better fixture and we should be right in the thick of Finals action

Agree that we should not be looking to extend Ratten until later in the year ..... in any case we should be sounding out Clarkson privately to gage his interest ...... I am sure David Rath would be perfectly positioned to do this without the media needing to catch wind of it

[Impatient Sainter]

I am an unabated Ratten fan, as I believe he is the man to get the best out of our list. Ratts loves the club and has really invested in our improvement. If we can continue to build our list and get the core group matured and out on the track consistently Ratts will do the job. Why change whats not broken?

Clarkson will cost a fortune and I would rather spend the extra $$$ on recruitment and development. Clarkson may be the more accomplished coach, but renember where Hawthorn finished when their list fell off a cliff.

[samuraisaint]

He has already coached us to a final win. Tick.
We are starting to win interstate again. Tick.
We beat Richmond, who have won three out of the previous four grand finals at the MCG thereby holding them to their lowest score in sixty years. Tick.
Picked up some real talent which is actually getting devloped properly for the first time since Grant Thomas coached the club, despite not being able to field a reserves team for two seasons. Tick. tick.
In the game at Geelong, we were in it up to our necks for the first time in twenty years, untiil we lost King in the first quarter. Had that not happened, we would have won and we could have played finals. Not a tick, but it almost is.

We had an unplanned for development season in 2021, on the back of a huge injury list and some players not available to play when fit because of Covid-related quarantines and family reasons. I think this season may well turn out to be a silver lining.

[Devilhead]

He has already coached us to a final win. Tick.
We are starting to win interstate again. Tick.
We beat Richmond, who have won three out of the previous four grand finals at the MCG thereby holding them to their lowest score in sixty years. Tick.
Picked up some real talent which is actually getting devloped properly for the first time since Grant Thomas coached the club, despite not being able to field a reserves team for two seasons. Tick. tick.
In the game at Geelong, we were in it up to our necks for the first time in twenty years, untiil we lost King in the first quarter. Had that not happened, we would have won and we could have played finals. Not a tick, but it almost is.

We had an unplanned for development season in 2021, on the back of a huge injury list and some players not available to play when fit because of Covid-related quarantines and family reasons. I think this season may well turn out to be a silver lining.

Tick

[B.M]

Super Coach Clarko coached his side to what? 16th?!?!

I keep saying it

The best coach is the one with the best players, therefore the best team… and the least injuries.

How many quality players have Melbourne got?

How many were injured?!

[MC Gusto]

Essendon was by far the worst loss. It was also the end of our hopes for finals. What was it? Round 4???

[Ghost Like]

Super Coach Clarko coached his side to what? 16th?!?!

I keep saying it

The best coach is the one with the best players, therefore the best team… and the least injuries.

How many quality players have Melbourne got?

How many were injured?!

So which is it?

In one post you want to "give Clarko an offer he won't refuse!!!"

Now this post you facetiously call him "Super Coach Clarko" claiming it's all about the best players.

[DJ Higgins]

I cant believe there would be that much of a decision. If you ask people who would you rather have as your coach Ratten or Clarko it would be a no brainer. i have nothing against Ratten but come on if we could get Clarko we would be insane not to try.