Dirty Laundry - Dunstan

[skeptic]

It’s been interesting to watch how forumite’s opinions have changed regarding Dunstan.

Some like me have done an about face realising he wasn’t a compete write off

Others have held firm with their opinions the whole time

And now, some of his biggest fans and defenders are sinking the boots in and starting with the character yet assassinations

Our first game against Richmond this season had me doing an about face. Up until that game I was a fan. I just got annoyed at his good performances when he came back into the side. Remember the microphone being stuck in his face while walking off after having about his 3rd good game in succession and being asked what he attributed his performances to and his response was to praise his reserves coaches with a petulant and pissed off tone. It was at that point you knew he had to go.

Doesn't mean I get both sides and also hope he can make it another club but as I say, time for club and player to part ways.

To me... that game made my mind up completely
Through form he turned it around for me onfield but yes his petulant demeanour and carry on made him an increasingly hard to get behind

[The_Dud]

Why was he dropped so often?!

Why was he not offered another contract?!

Because he’s played about 8 very good games out of 120 and about 60 no good!!

He’s a limited player

Because of off-field issues between him and the coach, not onfield form.

How are you not picking this up over 5 pages plus of discussion? Or are you being deliberately obtuse?

How can an ordinary player get Brownlow votes in half the games he played in the last 2 seasons? If he and Crouch play the same role how did he manage to easily out poll him?

[Mr Magic]

It would be interesting to know what the pre-game plan for Ball was in that 2009 GF?
Or do we actually believe that Lyon deliberately chose not to play a fit player in the second half and risk losing the game?
I do not believe the story that Ball was 'forgotten on the bench'.
I do believe there was a 'plan' for his role and game time.

you truly dislike Ball/Connors hey MM?

it was well publicised that Mission(sp) & Lyon did not believe that Ball had the fitness to run out game
and he was so blinded by this, he played an injured player (Goddard) over Ball

Actually I don’t know either of them so cannot either like/dislike them.
What I do dislike is the way Connors engineered (with Ball’s help) to get what he wanted.
Plenty of players leave clubs.
Very few do it the way Ball did by denigrating his existing club.
He gave great service to St Kilda but was equally well looked after by them.
The Club had accepted his wish to go to Collingwood and come to terms with them only for Connors to completely destroy that arrangement for the sake of another client (Jolley).
It had nothing to do with St Kilda but Ball/Connors didn’t care one iota as long as Connors got what he wanted.
IMHO Ball’s actions were reprehensible in this.
It takes 2 to tango as they say.
Lyon seemingly had a set opinion about Ball’s capabilities and told him.
Ball had 2 options
To either accept or reject that assessment.
He chose to reject it and leave (as was his right)
I have no issue with him leaving.
I don’t like the way he did it.

Dunstan is acting similarly IMHO.
And his petulance (my terminology) is not something new found.
I am aware of a conversation he had a couple of years ago with someone I know well where he was bagging the then Coach over the opportunities he was getting.

[WellardSaint]

You never slag off your employer in front of a future employer.
I have interviewed many people over the years and one of the biggest mistakes people make is to denigrate their current employer.
The question is always asked why you are looking to move on, "Looking for a new challenge" is a good answer.
Saying anything negative about your current company is always a bad idea as it makes the potential employer question your attitude.
Luke could have shot himself in the foot here.

1000%

Makes the person look immature.
And...looks like they are arrogant and denying their own failings and too quick to apportion blame to the entity that sets the standards and pays their wages.
Incredibly self-destructive

[Devilhead]

If only players were judged on stats alone.

You mean like the stat below from Devilhead?

The most irritating and incorrect way to judge how well someone has played is looking at the simple kicks plus handballs

I don’t give a stuff if someone has had 25-30. It doesn’t mean squat if they can’t impact the scoreboard or give it to a team mate. Dunny would often kick long to a contest where we were outnumbered or turn it over or kick it out of bounds.

Interesting stat this year is that Dunstan went inside 50 ..... 60 times this year for 2 goal assists - that's 1 in 30

All our other mids - Steele, Crouch, Jones, Billings, Ross are 1 in 10 or lower for inside50/GA comparison

That is such a bulls*** statistic. Goal assists usually don’t come from an inside 50. I just looked at all our goals against Richmond at the ‘G. We kicked 9 goals and only had 5 goal assists. None of the goal assists were from outside 50.

So we had 42 inside 50s, and none of them were goal assists. I guess we had a poor night

If you don’t think he scores enough goals, fine. If you don’t think he gets enough goal assists, fine. But if you make a ratio of two unrelated statistics and think you have proven something, you need to try again.

From 2015 to 2017 Dunstan had 1 goal assist for every 4.42 inside 50s
In the last 3 years, Steele has a ratio of 6.76.
Have I proven anything?

Yes that Dunstan has got even worse

It's pretty clear for the last 8 years that Dunstan in the mid field doesn't elevate the team .... yes he can rack them up occasionally and even look good sometimes against bottom ranked teams but the cold hearted truth is that ...... he is or was a bog standard plodder and if we want to win a Premiership we need to upgrade

Thanks Luke for the blood sweet and rank turnovers but ........

[Impatient Sainter]

I can't believe posters are levelling Dunstans worth on the Brownlow votes he received? Most umpires have NFI what it takes to win games of football. Dunstan would have been a great player in the 80's, but the game has transitioned that much that he is now obsolete. What top 4 side would he get a game with? Ratten and the club have made exactly the right call.

[Devilhead]

I can't believe posters are levelling Dunstans worth on the Brownlow votes he received? Most umpires have NFI what it takes to win games of football. Dunstan would have been a great player in the 80's, but the game has transitioned that much that he is now obsolete. What top 4 side would he get a game with? Ratten and the club have made exactly the right call.

What top 18 side would he get a regular game with?

[Wayne42]

I can't believe posters are levelling Dunstans worth on the Brownlow votes he received? Most umpires have NFI what it takes to win games of football. Dunstan would have been a great player in the 80's, but the game has transitioned that much that he is now obsolete. What top 4 side would he get a game with? Ratten and the club have made exactly the right call.

What top 18 side would he get a regular game with?

The saints

[Moods]

I can't believe posters are levelling Dunstans worth on the Brownlow votes he received? Most umpires have NFI what it takes to win games of football. Dunstan would have been a great player in the 80's, but the game has transitioned that much that he is now obsolete. What top 4 side would he get a game with? Ratten and the club have made exactly the right call.

Spot on. On all points

[B.M]

I try not to judge a good player on their best games

Just about all players on AFL lists have the ability to play good footy

It’s whether they can deliver consistently

Yes, Dunstan played half a dozen very good games. How were his other games?!

Can you trust them to do their job each week. Dunstan was inconsistent … at his best… very good… at worst he was very ordinary and that was more often than not!!!

As I said

Limited player

[Vortex]

I can't believe posters are levelling Dunstans worth on the Brownlow votes he received? Most umpires have NFI what it takes to win games of football. Dunstan would have been a great player in the 80's, but the game has transitioned that much that he is now obsolete. What top 4 side would he get a game with? Ratten and the club have made exactly the right call.

Spot on. The brownlow is an award that needs a drastic overhaul starting with removing from the umpires their judging of who is the best player and just judge who is the fairest and who plays within their rules. Because at the end of the day that is their only area of expertise qualifying them to judge anything on a footy field.

Another award needs to be designed for who is the best player with a judging system and panel suitably qualified, maybe it already exists and is called the AA.

And yeah agree, I'm astounded pro arguments for Dunny are centred around his brownlow votes from this season.

[cwrcyn]

Umpires see possessions and that's why midfielders win the Brownlow. They don't focus on the turnovers, the lack of defensive running, the non adherence to team rules. Players can chase possessions if they choose. It can make them look good. It can make them look better than they are. After
round one of 2020 Dunstan got dropped after polling Brownlow votes and being close to the highest possession winner on the ground. We lost that game after a dominant start. Clearly our coaching panel saw things they didn't like in Dunstan's game. The umpires didn't see it but the people who really counted did.

[Wayne42]

Midfielders do look more likely to get votes than scragging defenders or wrestling forwards, why would the Umps vote for them.

[kosifantutti]

I can't believe posters are levelling Dunstans worth on the Brownlow votes he received? Most umpires have NFI what it takes to win games of football. Dunstan would have been a great player in the 80's, but the game has transitioned that much that he is now obsolete. What top 4 side would he get a game with? Ratten and the club have made exactly the right call.

I guess the coaches have no idea either. He got votes in 4 games. Both coaches voted for him in at least 3 games.

[saynta]

I can't believe posters are levelling Dunstans worth on the Brownlow votes he received? Most umpires have NFI what it takes to win games of football. Dunstan would have been a great player in the 80's, but the game has transitioned that much that he is now obsolete. What top 4 side would he get a game with? Ratten and the club have made exactly the right call.

I guess the coaches have no idea either. He got votes in 4 games. Both coaches voted for him in at least 3 games.

He deserved those votes. He played some outstanding games in 2021

[B.M]

Problem is

He’s only played SOME outstanding games in his entire career

Up until this season he had polled 6 Brownlow Votes

His only top ten B&F finish was 9th a few years ago

This season he played 4 great games, 4 pretty good ones and a few poor games.

He can win the footy on the inside. Can’t kick. And struggles to defend on the outside.

[Wayne42]

Dunny has been doing a lot of attacking from the outside though, lately.

(as in, attacking the club from out in the street)

[Devilhead]

Dunny has been doing a lot of attacking from the outside though, lately.

Yes and the opposition teams love it

[cwrcyn]

Opposition defenders were licking their chops seeing Dunstan put ball to boot going inside 50.

[Teflon]

Wow …
I didn’t watch the Saints much at all after the early 2000s…except for Great Lyon years and only patch6.
Missed all of Richo…
But I know we let go Newnes, Wellar, Acres and some others I guess, from the Richo years which were presumably worse than Dunny. The stuff I’m reading now doesn’t sound like a guy who can play 100+ games as a midfielder in the AFL.. but that’s what he did.

They were good times weren’t they?
Just being relevant GF day was a breath of fresh air
Being hated cause we were good instead of being everyone’s second favourite team cause we have been so Shyte ?

[saintsRrising]

Dunstan's fate was sealed when we recruited Crouch.

[Yorkeys]

Not when he ignored three chances to handball against Geelong, preferring to take the tackle, go htb and gifting them a goal?

[B.M]

Selfish bit of play

That was not

I’m going to do the team thing, I’m doing what’s best for Luke Dunstan

And turn back into traffic and break tackles, problem is, he is not CP or DM