The Carter Review

[Crossy66]

expand to 22 teams, play each other once and get some integrity back into it. The current design off the draw is inequitable

[happy feet]

I guess everyone’s heart tells them Tasmania should have an AFL team, but I wonder if the ACT/Canberra would make a better case than Tassie. I think they should relocate the GWS to Canberra. The ACT has one of the best disposable incomes and great facilities, GWS seem to attract good crowds when playing in Canberra.

Perhaps there is a reason why Tasmania has not to date had a VFL/AFL team.

[saynta]

I guess everyone’s heart tells them Tasmania should have an AFL team, but I wonder if the ACT/Canberra would make a better case than Tassie. I think they should relocate the GWS to Canberra. The ACT has one of the best disposable incomes and great facilities, GWS seem to attract good crowds when playing in Canberra.

Perhaps there is a reason why Tasmania has not to date had a VFL/AFL team.

Great post. A very sensible suggestion.

[Sanctorum]

I realise that a lot of AFL supporters are opposed to the idea of a new franchise coming into the competition, and that's understandable. However, I take the view that the custodians of the game (AFL) have a responsibility to continually plan for the future, because that's what is required to ensure that the code does not stagnate.

Previous Commissions have done this over the decades leading up to the evolution of the VFL into a national competition featuring teams based in Qld, NSW, SA and WA, culminating in the most recent expansion, planned in the noughties, with creation of GWS in outer Sydney and GCS on Qld's Gold Coast.

Along every one of these steps footy supporters, as well as sections of the media, have been highly critical of each one of these proposals and trotted out the very same negative arguments that are being expressed today about a 19th team for Tasmania.

As I said, I have a firm conviction that the AFL Commission is duty bound to “Progress the game, so that everyone can share in its heritage and possibilities”, and totally support "the AFL’s vision (is) to be Australia’s national sport and a unifying social force".

Bear in mind that the contest to be Australia's most popular code of football is fierce and has many challengers, and the main arena where this is being played out is in the mainstream media, with the broadcasting rights on ever increasing varieties of platforms being by far the biggest contributor to the codes' finances.

One of the main issues that concerns supporters is that as things stand the talent pool for players is too small too field even 18 teams that are capable of being competitive at the top level, but that ignores the fact that in every elite code world wide there are teams that will languish at the bottom of the table, that happens irrespective of the number of teams involved, that's life. I doubt that anyone would have thought back in 1991 that by 2021 there would be a new hybrid team capable of playing finals, yet that has happened.

With the equalisation measures in place, and extra support for the new franchises as required, the AFL has done an excellent job in ensuring that even the weakest clubs can match it with the best on their day, as we have witnessed in 2021.

One of the positive side-effects of expansion, the average number of games by players in the AFL has increased quite significantly, I don't have the figures apart from the fact that in 2010, 41 players were aged 30 and over, compared to 82 this year and whilst this is obviously due to improved sports science, having more teams opens up opportunities for the over 30s to keep playing and postpone retirement.

The decision is ultimately up to the 18 club presidents, but if they put their heads in the sand and deny Tasmania what they are indisputably entitled to have, a 19th licence in their own right, then they will be rightly condemned for failing in their responsibilities to "progress the game" and be "a unifying social force".

[older saint]

GWS & GC not moving anywhere. They offer the AFL new eyes to TV's which results in bigger TV deals.
ACT generally only have public servants originating from elsewhere so they already either follow AFL and or league
Tas a football made state who already follow AFL.

This is why Demtriou pushed so hard for these clubs to be set up, that and the bonus linked to TV rights deal he got.

[Sanctorum]

I guess everyone’s heart tells them Tasmania should have an AFL team, but I wonder if the ACT/Canberra would make a better case than Tassie. I think they should relocate the GWS to Canberra. The ACT has one of the best disposable incomes and great facilities, GWS seem to attract good crowds when playing in Canberra.

Perhaps there is a reason why Tasmania has not to date had a VFL/AFL team.

Makes a lot of sense because currently GWS already play one or more home games there. The only qualification is that I gather GWS has a long term deal to use the main arena at the Sydney Showgrounds in the Olympic Park complex as their home ground.

[Vortex]

I guess everyone’s heart tells them Tasmania should have an AFL team, but I wonder if the ACT/Canberra would make a better case than Tassie. I think they should relocate the GWS to Canberra. The ACT has one of the best disposable incomes and great facilities, GWS seem to attract good crowds when playing in Canberra.

Perhaps there is a reason why Tasmania has not to date had a VFL/AFL team.

I think one of the overarching considerations for the AFL on deciding new markets for growth of the game is how fertile the grass roots are because that is where the numbers game
starts.

GWS and GCS are tasked by the AFL with heavy resource loads directed towards Auskick, schools and community programs and the like and the investment is justified by the AFL based on population size and growth for their respective regions. The amount of work being done at the grass roots in those regions is mind blowing.

I haven't read the report in its entirety however does anyone know how the report addresses what type of ROI might be expected from the grass roots in Tasmania in terms of bums on seats, memberships and most importantly, local talent capable of becoming AFL standard?

[happy feet]

GWS & GC not moving anywhere. They offer the AFL new eyes to TV's which results in bigger TV deals.
ACT generally only have public servants originating from elsewhere so they already either follow AFL and or league
Tas a football made state who already follow AFL.

This is why Demtriou pushed so hard for these clubs to be set up, that and the bonus linked to TV rights deal he got.

Your statement about the ACT public servants mainly coming from elsewhere and already have a team loyalty might have been true in the 80’s or 90’s but that’s not the case anymore. Your comment about TV rights is interesting, but why couldn’t that hold true for the ACT as well?

[happy feet]

I realise that a lot of AFL supporters are opposed to the idea of a new franchise coming into the competition, and that's understandable. However, I take the view that the custodians of the game (AFL) have a responsibility to continually plan for the future, because that's what is required to ensure that the code does not stagnate.

Previous Commissions have done this over the decades leading up to the evolution of the VFL into a national competition featuring teams based in Qld, NSW, SA and WA, culminating in the most recent expansion, planned in the noughties, with creation of GWS in outer Sydney and GCS on Qld's Gold Coast.

Along every one of these steps footy supporters, as well as sections of the media, have been highly critical of each one of these proposals and trotted out the very same negative arguments that are being expressed today about a 19th team for Tasmania.

As I said, I have a firm conviction that the AFL Commission is duty bound to “Progress the game, so that everyone can share in its heritage and possibilities”, and totally support "the AFL’s vision (is) to be Australia’s national sport and a unifying social force".

Bear in mind that the contest to be Australia's most popular code of football is fierce and has many challengers, and the main arena where this is being played out is in the mainstream media, with the broadcasting rights on ever increasing varieties of platforms being by far the biggest contributor to the codes' finances.

One of the main issues that concerns supporters is that as things stand the talent pool for players is too small too field even 18 teams that are capable of being competitive at the top level, but that ignores the fact that in every elite code world wide there are teams that will languish at the bottom of the table, that happens irrespective of the number of teams involved, that's life. I doubt that anyone would have thought back in 1991 that by 2021 there would be a new hybrid team capable of playing finals, yet that has happened.

With the equalisation measures in place, and extra support for the new franchises as required, the AFL has done an excellent job in ensuring that even the weakest clubs can match it with the best on their day, as we have witnessed in 2021.

One of the positive side-effects of expansion, the average number of games by players in the AFL has increased quite significantly, I don't have the figures apart from the fact that in 2010, 41 players were aged 30 and over, compared to 82 this year and whilst this is obviously due to improved sports science, having more teams opens up opportunities for the over 30s to keep playing and postpone retirement.

The decision is ultimately up to the 18 club presidents, but if they put their heads in the sand and deny Tasmania what they are indisputably entitled to have, a 19th licence in their own right, then they will be rightly condemned for failing in their responsibilities to "progress the game" and be "a unifying social force".

Why is Tasmania ‘indisputably entitled to have the 19th licence for a team, when they have never had a team to date? I’m interested in what your thoughts are on this?

[saynta]

GWS & GC not moving anywhere. They offer the AFL new eyes to TV's which results in bigger TV deals.
ACT generally only have public servants originating from elsewhere so they already either follow AFL and or league
Tas a football made state who already follow AFL.

This is why Demtriou pushed so hard for these clubs to be set up, that and the bonus linked to TV rights deal he got.

The public servants came from Melbourne to the ACT in the 60s when the population of Canberra was less than 100,000.

The population today is over 430,000. If you take in Queanbeyan and Yass ,where AFLs also played, you are looking at a population pool of over Half a million people and growing rapidly.

An Afl team would thrive in Canberra. Instead the AFLis trying to shove GWS down the locals throats but they ain't buying,even though Manuka attracts better crowds than Launceston, Darwin, Hobart or Cairns .

Yes, the public servants all or at least most of them, had their VFL team, but they have all long since retired.

To have a truely national competition, Tassie, the ACT and the NT must have their own teams. It will happen one day but 10 teams in Melbourne is not sustainable in the long time.

[B.M]

How’s the growth going in those new markets

Membership numbers
Crowds

How’s the clubs going???

How’s their player retention

1/ is a basket case, in a place where no one give a f***
About any sport really, not even Rugba League

2/ was given the best draft concessions that could be imagined
They eventually made a GF

Still, no one there cares about the giants. If they do follow footy, and that’s a big if, they are ex footy state people who follow there own club!

They are expansion markets, that’s true. But as it stands, the expansion is only through viewership of people in current footy markets.

Do you want to know how much it costs the AFL to prop up both clubs?! And it’s been doing it ten years!!!

[B.M]

Why are Tassie entitled to a club

They ARE a football state!!!!

They pay money to view, support and follow the game

For a small state, with 1/10th the population of Victoria

They have given us
Nash, Baldock, Stewart, Howell, Lawrence, Hudson, Hart, Greening, Crosswell, Pritchard, Wright, Richardson, Lynch, Febey , Creswell, Robertson, Rawlings, Riewoldt, Howe
Just to name a few off the top of my head

Coaches and administrators
Eade, Gale, Noble and Fagan

They have given the wider footy community (especially StK fans)
Plenty over the years. They deserve to get something back!

Is it viable
Ken Oath
Would not be a basket case like GC
What’s their membership. 8-10 000
Tas would be 50 000 first week!!!

Sponsorship
The ridiculous argument that there is not sponsorship money in Tas.
Last time I checked
Emirates are not in Collingwood (or Victoria for that matter)
Hyundai, Mazda and just about every other teams major sponsor is either international or national company
Not sure Tas would be going after the local fish n chip shop?!

Although if the did go local Boags (owned by Lion) or Cadbury might do??

The other pathetic argument that there is not enough talent in Tas and 50% of draftees are from the TAC cup.
Of course there are there is what 7 million people in Victoria
Which is required because there are 10 Victorian clubs
To be comparable
Tas really only need to supply 3 or four draftees per year.

Exactly how many draftees come out of Canberra, GWS, The Gold Coast.
I’d like Tassie to play a state of origin match vs any non traditional football state!!!

But it’s NOT state of origin -

It’s a NATIONAL competition… with a national draft!!!!
Tassie players can get drafted to Brisbane, West Australian players can get drafted to Vic and SA players to Tassie and so on…

Exactly what the f**** has Tasmanian players got anything to do with it?? When considering how strong we’d expect to be.

I’ll tell you right now

Given the same draft hand as GWS and the prop up by the AFL

Tas would have won flags, and had a few more that 6000 attend home games.


Those who oppose Tassie as a viable footy option, have no idea and are ignorant.

[Wayne42]

I wonder if Gil, in his recent meeting with Peter Gutwein told him, we'll have another look at a team from Tassie in 10 years.

We need to get through Covid, get our finances in back in order and hope by then the Tasmanians get interested in Footy again.
Oh, and the North-South divide no longer exists.

There are a lot of people supporting the push for a 19th team in Tasmania, the irony is, most of them don't live there anymore.

[bigcarl]

Unfortunately I think Tassie is just going to have to wait. Eighteen teams is more than enough. Since Gillian has ruled out relocating the GCS, their best bet is with a relocated Melbourne side.

[B.M]

North south divide only exists in football terms because of localised leagues - and the playing of intrastate rep games.

Local towns get behind their teams eg/Burnie

Regions get behind teams eg/ if Devonport played Clarence in a GF the supporters from the NW would barrack for Devonport

If Glenorchy played Port Melbourne in a game
All Tasmanians would support the Tassie side

All Tasmanian cricket followers follow the Hobart based Tasmanian side. I do and I haven’t lived there for 30 years!!!

Put an AFL team in Tassie
And watch a state unite
Like when the Eagles and the Crows joined the AFL

[happy feet]

Why are Tassie entitled to a club

They ARE a football state!!!!

They pay money to view, support and follow the game

For a small state, with 1/10th the population of Victoria

They have given us
Nash, Baldock, Stewart, Howell, Lawrence, Hudson, Hart, Greening, Crosswell, Pritchard, Wright, Richardson, Lynch, Febey , Creswell, Robertson, Rawlings, Riewoldt, Howe
Just to name a few off the top of my head

Coaches and administrators
Eade, Gale, Noble and Fagan

They have given the wider footy community (especially StK fans)
Plenty over the years. They deserve to get something back!

Is it viable
Ken Oath
Would not be a basket case like GC
What’s their membership. 8-10 000
Tas would be 50 000 first week!!!

Sponsorship
The ridiculous argument that there is not sponsorship money in Tas.
Last time I checked
Emirates are not in Collingwood (or Victoria for that matter)
Hyundai, Mazda and just about every other teams major sponsor is either international or national company
Not sure Tas would be going after the local fish n chip shop?!

Although if the did go local Boags (owned by Lion) or Cadbury might do??

The other pathetic argument that there is not enough talent in Tas and 50% of draftees are from the TAC cup.
Of course there are there is what 7 million people in Victoria
Which is required because there are 10 Victorian clubs
To be comparable
Tas really only need to supply 3 or four draftees per year.

Exactly how many draftees come out of Canberra, GWS, The Gold Coast.
I’d like Tassie to play a state of origin match vs any non traditional football state!!!

But it’s NOT state of origin -

It’s a NATIONAL competition… with a national draft!!!!
Tassie players can get drafted to Brisbane, West Australian players can get drafted to Vic and SA players to Tassie and so on…

Exactly what the f**** has Tasmanian players got anything to do with it?? When considering how strong we’d expect to be.

I’ll tell you right now

Given the same draft hand as GWS and the prop up by the AFL

Tas would have won flags, and had a few more that 6000 attend home games.


Those who oppose Tassie as a viable footy option, have no idea and are ignorant.

You are being entirely speculative here, you cannot predict success or financial performance on emotion. And please don’t denigrate people who have an opinion different to you as ignorant or having no idea.

[happy feet]

Why are Tassie entitled to a club

They ARE a football state!!!!

They pay money to view, support and follow the game

For a small state, with 1/10th the population of Victoria

They have given us
Nash, Baldock, Stewart, Howell, Lawrence, Hudson, Hart, Greening, Crosswell, Pritchard, Wright, Richardson, Lynch, Febey , Creswell, Robertson, Rawlings, Riewoldt, Howe
Just to name a few off the top of my head

Coaches and administrators
Eade, Gale, Noble and Fagan

They have given the wider footy community (especially StK fans)
Plenty over the years. They deserve to get something back!

Is it viable
Ken Oath
Would not be a basket case like GC
What’s their membership. 8-10 000
Tas would be 50 000 first week!!!

Sponsorship
The ridiculous argument that there is not sponsorship money in Tas.
Last time I checked
Emirates are not in Collingwood (or Victoria for that matter)
Hyundai, Mazda and just about every other teams major sponsor is either international or national company
Not sure Tas would be going after the local fish n chip shop?!

Although if the did go local Boags (owned by Lion) or Cadbury might do??

The other pathetic argument that there is not enough talent in Tas and 50% of draftees are from the TAC cup.
Of course there are there is what 7 million people in Victoria
Which is required because there are 10 Victorian clubs
To be comparable
Tas really only need to supply 3 or four draftees per year.

Exactly how many draftees come out of Canberra, GWS, The Gold Coast.
I’d like Tassie to play a state of origin match vs any non traditional football state!!!

But it’s NOT state of origin -

It’s a NATIONAL competition… with a national draft!!!!
Tassie players can get drafted to Brisbane, West Australian players can get drafted to Vic and SA players to Tassie and so on…

Exactly what the f**** has Tasmanian players got anything to do with it?? When considering how strong we’d expect to be.

I’ll tell you right now

Given the same draft hand as GWS and the prop up by the AFL

Tas would have won flags, and had a few more that 6000 attend home games.


Those who oppose Tassie as a viable footy option, have no idea and are ignorant.

You are being entirely speculative here, you cannot predict success or financial performance on emotion. And please don’t denigrate people who have an opinion different to you as ignorant or having no idea. Posting at 12.01am, couldn’t be on here quick enough could you?

[MC Gusto]

I’d support the tassie saints if it meant 5-7 games at the G a year (I can’t stand ‘marvel’), extra picks and compo from the AFL and a flag or two

A la Sydney et al

Maybe this weekends relocation is just getting us warmed up to it?

[Yorkeys]

Apropos of nothing, I always wanted us to have someone from Queenstown playing for us. The image of a gravel oval conjures up really tough humans with no pain thresholds and acquired balance to a superb level.

Also wondered about injury rates/types playing in freezing cold, gale wind, muddy tracks conditions. I guess that would be in an appendix.

The other silly thought was if AFL is so popular how come the Tasmanian League(s) collapsed (didn't they?)

Anyway, CHB from Queenstown, from mining stock and a wooden shack, that's what we need.

[B.M]

Happy feet

It’s not a prediction it’s an opinion

I can have any opinion I like!!!

As far as speaking on behalf of Tasmania

Well, I’m from there, my entire family live there, I go there regularly (well not right now)

I have a little understanding of the culture down there

I left when I was 16 and that was 30 odd years ago

Still consider myself Tasmanian- as does Nick Reiwoldt

We are very proud and parochial people

[B.M]

Travel

Tasmania had 3 seperate regional leagues

In 87 they formed a Statewide League with teams representing each region

Burnie, Devonport, North and South Launceston

And a second tier league in the north NTFL and SFL

The Statewide was a roaring success through the 90s as football in Tas was at its strongest, but by the turn of the century the financial strain of logistics and commitment to travel, by essentially amateur athletes saw the NW and Northern teams return to regional footy (and dominate, Burnie won 5 in a row, then Launceston 3)
SWL returned in 2009 but has never reached the levels of the 90s with many good players staying at local clubs to avoid the travel.

[older saint]

GWS & GC not moving anywhere. They offer the AFL new eyes to TV's which results in bigger TV deals.
ACT generally only have public servants originating from elsewhere so they already either follow AFL and or league
Tas a football made state who already follow AFL.

This is why Demtriou pushed so hard for these clubs to be set up, that and the bonus linked to TV rights deal he got.

Your statement about the ACT public servants mainly coming from elsewhere and already have a team loyalty might have been true in the 80’s or 90’s but that’s not the case anymore. Your comment about TV rights is interesting, but why couldn’t that hold true for the ACT as well?

Population - 2.5 - 3m in Western Sydney, if you get just 5% interested, not already into AFL = 150,000. Population of ACT 430,000 requires 34% of new interest.

[older saint]

GWS & GC not moving anywhere. They offer the AFL new eyes to TV's which results in bigger TV deals.
ACT generally only have public servants originating from elsewhere so they already either follow AFL and or league
Tas a football made state who already follow AFL.

This is why Demtriou pushed so hard for these clubs to be set up, that and the bonus linked to TV rights deal he got.

The public servants came from Melbourne to the ACT in the 60s when the population of Canberra was less than 100,000.

The population today is over 430,000. If you take in Queanbeyan and Yass ,where AFLs also played, you are looking at a population pool of over Half a million people and growing rapidly.

An Afl team would thrive in Canberra. Instead the AFLis trying to shove GWS down the locals throats but they ain't buying,even though Manuka attracts better crowds than Launceston, Darwin, Hobart or Cairns .

Yes, the public servants all or at least most of them, had their VFL team, but they have all long since retired.

To have a truely national competition, Tassie, the ACT and the NT must have their own teams. It will happen one day but 10 teams in Melbourne is not sustainable in the long time.

The question isnt about whether team would thrive as TAS and ACT would have teams- it is only about revenue and TV rights are the main revenue stream of the AFL . Even if you say 500,000 people the AFL look at new market so to match a 5% new interest in western sydney you would need to be able to guarantee a 30 % NEW Market increase and as everyone know many alreayd follow afl so probably have some streaming subscription

[B.M]

How many members have GWS got?

They’ve had 10 years.

[B.M]

9. Port Adelaide – 56,532 (2020 tally: 46,820)

10. St Kilda – 55,802 (2020 tally: 48,588)

11. Melbourne – 53,188 (2020 tally: 40,571)

12. Fremantle – 50,342 (2020 tally: 51,577)

13. Sydney Swans – 50,144 (2020 tally: 48,322)

14. Western Bulldogs – 46,541 (2020 tally: 38,876)

15. North Melbourne – 46,357 (2020 tally: 38,667)

16. Brisbane Lions – 40,289 (2020 tally: 29,277)

17. GWS Giants – 30,185 (2020 tally: 30,841)

18. Gold Coast Suns – 19,460 (2020 tally: 16,236)

They sit second last, in front of the rabble that is GC
They are 10 000 behind 16th and GC are 10 000 behind them

Their home games look like state league footy.

If GWS have 30 000 supporters, they are definitely not turning up to games