Frog boiled?

[Yorkeys]

Ok,

Normal is not playing every team twice. But there is a home and away system. We grudgingly accept.

Now there is not really a home and away system. It can be just away. And when away, in really restricted unusual circumstances and short notice.

Then key players that are not concussed or suspended by Tribunal and are fit are banned from playing. E.g. Dunkley, Rowan, Toby G. and Darragh, any number of Swans.

These players are crucial/very important to sides' chances of winning.

Eagles game highlights this as their strengths are home game, very tall at both ends and in ruck. Which just happen to be our weaknesses (at least some of the the more obvious ones). Not exaggerating to say if Simpson could nominate one player not to front for Saints it would be Marshall.

GWS really struggle without Toby, he is at least a 3 goal difference.

At what point does the whole competition thing become so farcical as to be meaningless as a real competition and just a rote exercise to pretend there is a "competition". Changing the rules during a competition is problematic at the best of times notwithstanding the very good reasons for the Covid protocols. We have been softened up to rule changes on the run over time because umpires are so instructed over the years and Hocking made it an art form.

However no one can tell me Saints have not been crucified by Rowan's ineligibility to play and virtual house arrest in a foreign State. I understand why, but I think it invalidates the 2021 season, even in the unlikely event we win - although I suggest as soon as Rowan was ruled ineligible the game was lost.

It hits home because of its direct impact on my team. But the artificial contortions the AFL are going through just to stage games is making the competition as such a joke. I know they have to try to present broadcast product however this years premiership, if there is a Grand Final is likely to be hollow.

Thoughts?

[saynta]

Ok,

Normal is not playing every team twice. But there is a home and away system. We grudgingly accept.

Now there is not really a home and away system. It can be just away. And when away, in really restricted unusual circumstances and short notice.

Then key players that are not concussed or suspended by Tribunal and are fit are banned from playing. E.g. Dunkley, Rowan, Toby G. and Darragh, any number of Swans.

These players are crucial/very important to sides' chances of winning.

Eagles game highlights this as their strengths are home game, very tall at both ends and in ruck. Which just happen to be our weaknesses (at least some of the the more obvious ones). Not exaggerating to say if Simpson could nominate one player not to front for Saints it would be Marshall.

GWS really struggle without Toby, he is at least a 3 goal difference.

At what point does the whole competition thing become so farcical as to be meaningless as a real competition and just a rote exercise to pretend there is a "competition". Changing the rules during a competition is problematic at the best of times notwithstanding the very good reasons for the Covid protocols. We have been softened up to rule changes on the run over time because umpires are so instructed over the years and Hocking made it an art form.

However no one can tell me Saints have not been crucified by Rowan's ineligibility to play and virtual house arrest in a foreign State. I understand why, but I think it invalidates the 2021 season, even in the unlikely event we win - although I suggest as soon as Rowan was ruled ineligible the game was lost.

It hits home because of its direct impact on my team. But the artificial contortions the AFL are going through just to stage games is making the competition as such a joke. I know they have to try to present broadcast product however this years premiership, if there is a Grand Final is likely to be hollow.

Thoughts?

Good post. Your reasoning is valid.

[Vortex]

Are we allowed to call it the COVID Cup?

The AFL controlled media will find a way to make you feel like it is anything but compromised, infact it won't be too long before they have you believing that this season's flag will be more valuable than any other because [insert reasons].

Out of Richmonds 2.5 flags since 2017, I know which ones the players value more.

I was pretty cranky about our loss to Port but I have since come to learn there was a fair bit of distraction behind the scenes so I am a lot more considerate today than I was just after the match.

I won't be taking anything about footy seriously now and all I will be hoping is that we don't get any more injuries and that we certainly don't make finals so we can start our preparation for 2022 at the end of August (hopefully that is when the home and away games finishes) and we have a really strong pre season...and I then hope we don't have any COVID interuption in 2022.

It's all mutually agreeable circle work until then.

[Sanctorum]

Whilst your reasoning is sound Yorkeys the AFL has little choice but to do whatever it can to keep the season going through to the end, there is no alternative. It will be a repeat of 2020 and the hope is that by the time of the GF Victoria will be out of lockdown and allow spectators to attend the matches.

For my part, St Kilda's horror run with injuries to key players this year (as well as some taking special leave) has made it most unlikely that they would make finals, so I've pretty well written this season off and will quite happily watch the remaining rounds and not worry how they go.

As we say at the end of each season, "there's always next year"!!

[The_Dud]

So the whole competition is farcical because Rowan Marshall can't play a few games?

Injuries happen, suspensions happen, other things happen. Adapt, get on with it.

Port were injury hit last week and flew in the day of the game, an away game, and they managed to do alright.

And please, I wish the 'COVID cup' posters would have the guts to tell Paddy it "didn't matter" when he was in tears after the Dogs final last year.

[Wayne42]

The Saints aren't good enough to win the flag in 2021, that seems obvious to me.

Having a player out due to Covid protocols reflects the world we live in. The AFL knows that, it just has to hope everyone else catches up.

[maverick]

Port were injury hit
Makes me laugh

As if we aren’t injury hit

Have been all year

Still missing at least 8 1st team players last game

[The_Dud]

Port were injury hit
Makes me laugh

As if we aren’t injury hit

Have been all year

Still missing at least 8 1st team players last game

At least 8?

Clark
Higgins
Gresham
Paton

?

The point is instead of worrying about excuses (as many on here like to do) I hope the club is focussing on winning and expecting excellence no matter what circumstances.

[Beno88]

Here's a snapshot of how fair it's all worked out over the last two seasons in regards to venues & crowds, not that there's much that can be done about it.

Games at Home Ground 2020-21
Brisbane 21
Adelaide 19
Port Adel 18
West Coast 17
Carlton 17 - includes MCG
Gold Coast 16
Nth Melb 15 -includes Hobart
Fremantle 15
Hawthorn 13 - includes Launceston
Collingwood 13
St Kilda 13
Sydney 12
Richmond 12
Bulldogs 12
GWS 12 - includes Canberra
Essendon 11
Melbourne 11
Geelong 9

Interstate Games 2020-21
Richmond, GWS 23
Nth Melb, Sydney, Essendon, Geelong 22
Hawthorn, Melbourne, St Kilda 20
Fremantle, Collingwood, Bulldogs 19
Port Adel, West Coast 18
Carlton 16
Adelaide, Gold Coast 15
Brisbane 10

Home Games, at Home Ground with a Crowd 2020-21
Port Adel, Brisbane 18
Adelaide 15
Gold Coast 14
Fremantle, West Coast 13
Sydney 12
GWS 11
North Melb, Hawthorn 9
Collingwood 8
Essendon, Carlton 7
Richmond, Melbourne, Bulldogs 6
Geelong, St Kilda 5

[CURLY]

Port were injury hit
Makes me laugh

As if we aren’t injury hit

Have been all year

Still missing at least 8 1st team players last game

At least 8?

Clark
Higgins
Gresham
Paton

?

The point is instead of worrying about excuses (as many on here like to do) I hope the club is focussing on winning and expecting excellence no matter what circumstances.

Gresham
Higgins
Paton
Coffield
Clarke
Geary
Carlsile
Battle
Wood
Hannebery

All unavailable.

[shanegrambeau]

So the whole competition is farcical because Rowan Marshall can't play a few games?

Injuries happen, suspensions happen, other things happen. Adapt, get on with it.

Port were injury hit last week and flew in the day of the game, an away game, and they managed to do alright.

And please, I wish the 'COVID cup' posters would have the guts to tell Paddy it "didn't matter" when he was in tears after the Dogs final last year.

Pretty much agree 100.

Marshall can't play...he missed loads already...it hurts us, but we are not victims...no one is being selfish or willful at our expense.

Don't start this COVID cup nonsense. They are doing the best they can and Richmond have three, that's 3.0 Flags since 2017. Every one counts, and every win loss counts too.

Who knows what happens this year? Farcical it maybe but this isn't the kind of farce we should have gripes with. They belong in the room where Barry Hall winds McGuire with his love punch an gets to play in a Flag while we go down.

[The_Dud]

Port were injury hit
Makes me laugh

As if we aren’t injury hit

Have been all year

Still missing at least 8 1st team players last game

At least 8?

Clark
Higgins
Gresham
Paton

?

The point is instead of worrying about excuses (as many on here like to do) I hope the club is focussing on winning and expecting excellence no matter what circumstances.

Gresham
Higgins
Paton
Coffield
Clarke
Geary
Carlsile
Battle
Wood
Hannebery

All unavailable.

Coffield - dropped
Geary - not best 22
Carlisle - dropped
Battle - horrible form, dropped?
Wood - not best 22
Hannerbry - does he even play for us?

[CURLY]

Port were injury hit
Makes me laugh

As if we aren’t injury hit

Have been all year

Still missing at least 8 1st team players last game

At least 8?

Clark
Higgins
Gresham
Paton

?

The point is instead of worrying about excuses (as many on here like to do) I hope the club is focussing on winning and expecting excellence no matter what circumstances.

Gresham
Higgins
Paton
Coffield
Clarke
Geary
Carlsile
Battle
Wood
Hannebery

All unavailable.

Coffield - dropped
Geary - not best 22
Carlisle - dropped
Battle - horrible form, dropped?
Wood - not best 22
Hannerbry - does he even play for us?

Coffield Wood Geary Carlsile Hannebery all best 22 when injured. Yes Battle was omitted but he wasn't available after dominating the Sandy game meaning Kent had to play.

[Yorkeys]

Not meant to be about Rowan or renaming the 2021 Toyota AFL Premiership or the range of bad luck any side can experience. Its just pondering how many times you can change an axe handle and the axe head and still claim it is the same axe.

Here's a terrible analogy: hypothetical Olympic 100m final, all finalists qualify under same conditions, on finals day each has a blind pick which gives their starting distance from scratch from 0 to 8 metres behind. All have an equal chance of picking the scratch mark but some won't. Its still the 100m final, but really the gold medal has a bit of tarnish?

Changing playing conditions from those originally agreed changes the nature of the competition. I am of the opinion that this year's cumulative changes - done for the best of reasons/intentions and with admirable professionalism and flexibility by the AFL - have unfortunately devalued this year's premiership. I see plenty don't agree and fair enough. I admit if I was a Dees person I probably would feel all's good, keep 'em coming.

[sunsaint]

We all hope that Coffield will become the player we all hope he might become
Geary - so many and I mean so many threads about he is now past his best - and really shouldnt be capt any more
You simply can not count DH
Carlisle is SO "critical" to our list, but yet he has been shopped and only given a single 2 month contract in recent years
Wood - if you think he is critical then that pretty much sums up our recruiting & list at the moment
Paton yes

The situation is what it is, it effects all teams & as a supporter if you want to find a negative then you will
But i guarantee the players just get on with it

Two years of covid affected draws is probably wearing some people down, but i seem to remember most were pretty happy last year when we gave the finals a shot

[older saint]

Eddie M had the right idea before the season - everyone plays each other once up to round 17. This way should anything happen with Covid and stoppages, rounds lost etc there could at least be some integrity in the fixture.

AFL / Channel 7 saw it different . Integrity of a fixture has never been important its all about $$$, Go back to AD and his bonus for the TV rights deal he got just before leaving, Oakley before that , and now Gil sending paupers to places like China to top up the coffers .

At the end of the day no excuses, you can blame Covid and travel and fixtures etc.. but lose to Adelaide when 6 goals to 0 there are no other excuses

[The_Dud]

Not meant to be about Rowan or renaming the 2021 Toyota AFL Premiership or the range of bad luck any side can experience. Its just pondering how many times you can change an axe handle and the axe head and still claim it is the same axe.

Here's a terrible analogy: hypothetical Olympic 100m final, all finalists qualify under same conditions, on finals day each has a blind pick which gives their starting distance from scratch from 0 to 8 metres behind. All have an equal chance of picking the scratch mark but some won't. Its still the 100m final, but really the gold medal has a bit of tarnish?

Changing playing conditions from those originally agreed changes the nature of the competition. I am of the opinion that this year's cumulative changes - done for the best of reasons/intentions and with admirable professionalism and flexibility by the AFL - have unfortunately devalued this year's premiership. I see plenty don't agree and fair enough. I admit if I was a Dees person I probably would feel all's good, keep 'em coming.

The difference is the best teams are still the ones there winning at the pointy end of the season. All the changes didn’t matter.

[shanegrambeau]

Not meant to be about Rowan or renaming the 2021 Toyota AFL Premiership or the range of bad luck any side can experience. Its just pondering how many times you can change an axe handle and the axe head and still claim it is the same axe.

Here's a terrible analogy: hypothetical Olympic 100m final, all finalists qualify under same conditions, on finals day each has a blind pick which gives their starting distance from scratch from 0 to 8 metres behind. All have an equal chance of picking the scratch mark but some won't. Its still the 100m final, but really the gold medal has a bit of tarnish?

Changing playing conditions from those originally agreed changes the nature of the competition. I am of the opinion that this year's cumulative changes - done for the best of reasons/intentions and with admirable professionalism and flexibility by the AFL - have unfortunately devalued this year's premiership. I see plenty don't agree and fair enough. I admit if I was a Dees person I probably would feel all's good, keep 'em coming.

The difference is the best teams are still the ones there winning at the pointy end of the season. All the changes didn’t matter.

Yup!
Absolutely.
The usual suspects are up there.
Rightly so.

Sans Richmond thankfully..

I predicted a West Coast decline, brilliantly as usual, too.

It’s true our chances are sunk, (are sank?) sunked? Sucked? Yes, sucked pretty much..It’s true we may have had a boost on the back of COVId but not much.

I think we are about where everyone outside the fanbase and the media hyperbole thought we’d be.

Still thought we’d have a ripping second half of the season until I saw last weeks game against Port. Now I think even Carlton will be iffy.

[Otiman]

everyone plays each other once up to round 17.

This is the start of a good idea.

Then play rounds 18-22 (or however many more or less you wish to play) in a swiss style, starting with 1st v 2nd, 3 v 4, 5 v 6. and so on.

"Swiss style" groups teams by win/loss record, and each round plays others with same or similar records. It's usually used for tournaments but we can add the win-loss record onto the ladder as we do now.

Round 18, 1st plays 2nd, 3rd plays 4th, and so on (or some other arbitrary match selection)

Then Round 19, all the winners play each other, and all the losers play each other.

Round 20, teams at 2-0 play each other, teams 1-1 play each other, and teams 0-2 play each other.

Round 21, teams 3-0 play each other, 2-1, 1-2, 0-3

.... and so on, until the end of the season.

If you happen to match up against a team three times in a season, so be it. It does 3 things well.
1. Makes the fixture equitable. It's a known set of rules with no bias
2. Creates close games. Teams should play other teams in similar form
3. Means most games will have impact on ladder position

And 2 bad
1. makes planning travel a nightmare. You don't know who your opponent next week will be until the end of the round, and you don't know if you're going to be travelling or not.
2. makes balancing home/away games across the season nightmare

[SaintPav]

It’s pretty clear we have had a horrid run with injuries this year.

Typical poisonous, negative and toxic posting to suggest otherwise.

[Ghost Like]

I just love the thread title, it's a cracker!

Well written OP, thought provoking but ultimately I must applaud the AFL for managing the most popular sport in Australia through two years of panic. Thankyou to all the teams and players for not rolling over.

It's not as if the AFL is a constant or fair in the best of years, rule changes, FIXtures, scheduling, a magical compensation formula - just another chapter in a long and storied history of our great game.

Cracking title - "Frog boiled", love it Yorkeys!

[Sainter_Dad]

Each Team plays all other tems once between Round 1 and 17
At the end of Round 17 the league is split into Sections for (mini) Final Series

Draft poisitions fixed at the end of Round 17

Top 8 play each other once more (Section A)
Bottom 10 play 7 of the remaining 9 teams (Section B)

Top 7 of Section A fill positions 1 - 7 of the Final Series
Lowest finisher from Section A drops out of the finals race

Top Finisher from Section B is elevated to the Final Series

Standard Finals Series then applies
1-4
2-3
5-8
6-7

Benefits
Removes tanking as the draft order is fixed at Round 17 when teams will still be 'live'
Keeps interest in the season for the Section B as one team will still make the finals
Ensures that most teams playing finals will have had competitive games up to the finals
Guarantees blockbusters in the weeks leading up to the finals

I have not heard of this being proposed but it may have been.

Thoughts????

Posted in 2012