List profile = Reality check
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
- The Recruit
- Club Player
- Posts: 912
- Joined: Tue 12 May 2015 12:50am
- Has thanked: 16 times
- Been thanked: 118 times
List profile = Reality check
Maybe we need to start focusing on who is on the list and where they were drafted instead of who we missed.
Mcartin seemingly killed us in 2014, but Steele & Howard makes up for that in a way.......then we chose to trade our first rnd pick in 2016. So we r behind at least 2 years.
So really the build is ahead of schedule to have the list we do now, it has been excellent trading to set up our team up for young kids and high picks over the next two years.
Our rebuild started in 2014 in many ways, our senior talent is very very thin (Hill,Ross, Memb, Billings)
Players that will b in our side next finals tilt.....
2011 - Hill, Ross, Webster
2012 - Membry,
2013 - Jones, Dunstan, Billings (edit)
2014 - Steele, Lonie, Butler, Howard, Sinclair
2015 - Gresham
2016 - Long, Battle
2017 - Clark, Coffield, Higgins, Calvarino, Paton, Marshall
2018 - King, Bytel
2019 - Burnes, Connolly, Wilkie
2016 draft we could have chose instead of Carlisle & Gresham -
6 Essendon Aaron Francis
7 GWS Jacob Hopper
8 Gold Coast Callum Ah Chee
9 Melbourne Sam Weideman
10 Carlton Harry McKay
11 Adelaide Wayne Milera
12 Carlton Charlie Curnow
13 GWS Matthew Kennedy
14 Brisbane Eric Hipwood
15 Richmond Daniel Rioli
16 GWS Harrison Himmelberg
17 Adelaide Tom Doedee)
So what do we need
At least 8 new young players in the next two years. From them, 1 elite mid, hopefully 2.
At least 3-5 25-29 year olds who can play roles and are reliable good players (maybe Wood comes good and maybe Highmore, can’t see any others).
A good tap ruckman (marshal is crucial forward)
That’s at least 14-15 players in two-three years.
I am hopeful the club gets this right and doesn’t think we only need 2-3 more players to be a consistent finals team. We need 15.
Mcartin seemingly killed us in 2014, but Steele & Howard makes up for that in a way.......then we chose to trade our first rnd pick in 2016. So we r behind at least 2 years.
So really the build is ahead of schedule to have the list we do now, it has been excellent trading to set up our team up for young kids and high picks over the next two years.
Our rebuild started in 2014 in many ways, our senior talent is very very thin (Hill,Ross, Memb, Billings)
Players that will b in our side next finals tilt.....
2011 - Hill, Ross, Webster
2012 - Membry,
2013 - Jones, Dunstan, Billings (edit)
2014 - Steele, Lonie, Butler, Howard, Sinclair
2015 - Gresham
2016 - Long, Battle
2017 - Clark, Coffield, Higgins, Calvarino, Paton, Marshall
2018 - King, Bytel
2019 - Burnes, Connolly, Wilkie
2016 draft we could have chose instead of Carlisle & Gresham -
6 Essendon Aaron Francis
7 GWS Jacob Hopper
8 Gold Coast Callum Ah Chee
9 Melbourne Sam Weideman
10 Carlton Harry McKay
11 Adelaide Wayne Milera
12 Carlton Charlie Curnow
13 GWS Matthew Kennedy
14 Brisbane Eric Hipwood
15 Richmond Daniel Rioli
16 GWS Harrison Himmelberg
17 Adelaide Tom Doedee)
So what do we need
At least 8 new young players in the next two years. From them, 1 elite mid, hopefully 2.
At least 3-5 25-29 year olds who can play roles and are reliable good players (maybe Wood comes good and maybe Highmore, can’t see any others).
A good tap ruckman (marshal is crucial forward)
That’s at least 14-15 players in two-three years.
I am hopeful the club gets this right and doesn’t think we only need 2-3 more players to be a consistent finals team. We need 15.
Last edited by The Recruit on Mon 31 May 2021 3:40pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 4298
- Joined: Fri 15 Sep 2006 10:35am
- Location: earth
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 1424 times
Re: List profile = Reality check
if we can snaffle 3 or 4 players in two years who can become regular senior players we will have done well. If we can get six I'll be stunned, but 14 or 15 is beyond any club. It's never been done, as far as I know. Can't see how you can get 15 AFL standard players in two years when the draft pool is so thin
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 4298
- Joined: Fri 15 Sep 2006 10:35am
- Location: earth
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 1424 times
Re: List profile = Reality check
Our draft picks this year will be woeful. Pick 8 and pick 52, something like that?? If we had three top ten picks like Essendon did last year, I'd be optimistic. The reality is that we need quality young talent but have insufficient draft picks to get them
- Wayne42
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 4911
- Joined: Mon 24 Jun 2013 10:27pm
- Has thanked: 619 times
- Been thanked: 558 times
Re: List profile = Reality check
The list managers had 11 players come off the 2020 list at years end. They didn't, or couldn't fill all those list vacancies in the trade and draft periods, i can't see them
having a big turnover at the end of 2021 considering we already have about 4 spots to fill, it might even be 5 now that Robbo has retired.
having a big turnover at the end of 2021 considering we already have about 4 spots to fill, it might even be 5 now that Robbo has retired.
The Saints are under review, will it make any difference to the underachievers ?
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 12463
- Joined: Thu 04 Jul 2019 8:53pm
- Has thanked: 5 times
- Been thanked: 2662 times
Re: List profile = Reality check
Are those year correct
Ross was 2012 wasn’t he
Billings was definitely 2013
Ross was 2012 wasn’t he
Billings was definitely 2013
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 1033
- Joined: Tue 20 Oct 2015 5:52pm
- Has thanked: 170 times
- Been thanked: 237 times
Re: List profile = Reality check
We need to trade out a couple of half decent experienced players for picks, simple as that
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 12463
- Joined: Thu 04 Jul 2019 8:53pm
- Has thanked: 5 times
- Been thanked: 2662 times
Re: List profile = Reality check
Why get rid of decent players for picks?
We got rid of McEvoy for picks (18)
We got pick 12 for Goddard
We Got pick 21 for Stanley
We got pick 25 for Dal
Would have been better off keeping all of them!
Picks are NO guarantee
You don’t get better by trading out your good players
Ie/ trade out Billings or Ross for a second round pick
The second round picks we have are Dunstan and Long... would you do those trades
IMO
Draft well with the picks you’ve got
Trade smart to pick up young talent - targeted recruiting
Keep your good players
We got rid of McEvoy for picks (18)
We got pick 12 for Goddard
We Got pick 21 for Stanley
We got pick 25 for Dal
Would have been better off keeping all of them!
Picks are NO guarantee
You don’t get better by trading out your good players
Ie/ trade out Billings or Ross for a second round pick
The second round picks we have are Dunstan and Long... would you do those trades
IMO
Draft well with the picks you’ve got
Trade smart to pick up young talent - targeted recruiting
Keep your good players
- The_Dud
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 13956
- Joined: Sun 27 May 2007 9:53pm
- Location: Bendigo
- Has thanked: 1314 times
- Been thanked: 2083 times
Re: List profile = Reality check
I’m a huge fan of Billings, I think he’s been easily one of our best this year (and great previous years) BUT if we finish down the bottom as it looks like will happen, and can get a top 10 pick for him, I’d seriously consider letting him go.
If we were contending again this year like last I would 100% be against it, but in the situation we’re in I’d be happy to go to the draft with 2 top 8ish picks and grab the best 2 genuine mids available.
If we were contending again this year like last I would 100% be against it, but in the situation we’re in I’d be happy to go to the draft with 2 top 8ish picks and grab the best 2 genuine mids available.
All posters are equal, but some posters are more equal than others.
- Waltzing St Kilda
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2159
- Joined: Sun 14 Mar 2010 5:20am
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 2 times
- Been thanked: 357 times
Re: List profile = Reality check
Might as well start drafting for 2025 onwards, though.
Recruiters have stuffed us, trading away high picks for the likes of Hill.
if we want to get slam-dunk talent that means another first-round pick this year. And that means trading, unfortunately.
Recruiters have stuffed us, trading away high picks for the likes of Hill.
if we want to get slam-dunk talent that means another first-round pick this year. And that means trading, unfortunately.
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 413
- Joined: Wed 16 Sep 2009 2:31am
- Location: Perth
- Has thanked: 2 times
- Been thanked: 83 times
Re: List profile = Reality check
Yes. Watched Port v Freo today and as much I hate to say it ( because I loathe them) the shitfish are not far off. They’ve achieved that situation by gaining off us and palming off Hill, the type of player that was holding them back. We really are numpties.Waltzing St Kilda wrote: ↑Sun 30 May 2021 11:47pm Might as well start drafting for 2025 onwards, though.
Recruiters have stuffed us, trading away high picks for the likes of Hill.
if we want to get slam-dunk talent that means another first-round pick this year. And that means trading, unfortunately.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23243
- Joined: Sat 13 Mar 2004 11:44pm
- Has thanked: 741 times
- Been thanked: 1796 times
Re: List profile = Reality check
We will get first rounder this year and next
Trade Billings for first round this year gives us 3 to play with over next 2
Trade - Billings pick/2022 pick for B King this year
Use current pick this year to draft best mid available
I think 2023 onwards is where it’s at
We still are a KPD short plus a Ryder replacement
Pray Clavarino becomes something or look to mid season drafts for a recycled steal
After that......mids mids mids
Trade Billings for first round this year gives us 3 to play with over next 2
Trade - Billings pick/2022 pick for B King this year
Use current pick this year to draft best mid available
I think 2023 onwards is where it’s at
We still are a KPD short plus a Ryder replacement
Pray Clavarino becomes something or look to mid season drafts for a recycled steal
After that......mids mids mids
“Yeah….nah””
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 11941
- Joined: Sun 11 Sep 2011 2:26pm
- Has thanked: 3650 times
- Been thanked: 2548 times
Re: List profile = Reality check
Should we dump Finnis, Gubby Allen and Lethlean before we start blaming our recruiting team?1965 Saint wrote: ↑Mon 31 May 2021 12:41amYes. Watched Port v Freo today and as much I hate to say it ( because I loathe them) the shitfish are not far off. They’ve achieved that situation by gaining off us and palming off Hill, the type of player that was holding them back. We really are numpties.Waltzing St Kilda wrote: ↑Sun 30 May 2021 11:47pm Might as well start drafting for 2025 onwards, though.
Recruiters have stuffed us, trading away high picks for the likes of Hill.
if we want to get slam-dunk talent that means another first-round pick this year. And that means trading, unfortunately.
Is it recruiters who go and negotiate with managers of players to get deals done like the Hill deal?
Remember that Lethlean also overruled our recruiters when it came to Hannas. It's a shame that our recruiters and medical team didn't have the nuts to stand up to Lethlean
Cho gave the Hannebery deal his blessing and he was salivating at the prospect of having a player like Hannebery on his list
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 4987
- Joined: Tue 13 Jun 2017 1:16pm
- Has thanked: 1432 times
- Been thanked: 1469 times
Re: List profile = Reality check
Gambled big on Hanners, double downed on Hill, used Afterpay, lost bigtime, and its time to pay.
Letters of demand ignored and phone not answered so guys with baseball bats at the door want keys to car and the trophy cabinet. What trophy cabinet you say?
Guys say, well borrow from the goodwill of your members. They seem infinitely forgiving after a few grumbles, unconditional love, eh. No need for any accountability.
Letters of demand ignored and phone not answered so guys with baseball bats at the door want keys to car and the trophy cabinet. What trophy cabinet you say?
Guys say, well borrow from the goodwill of your members. They seem infinitely forgiving after a few grumbles, unconditional love, eh. No need for any accountability.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 10332
- Joined: Fri 16 Feb 2007 3:24pm
- Location: WARBURTON
- Has thanked: 147 times
- Been thanked: 1320 times
Re: List profile = Reality check
Hill wasn't holding Freo back at all he was actually one of there best players. If he didn't want out he would still be there on the weekend.1965 Saint wrote: ↑Mon 31 May 2021 12:41amYes. Watched Port v Freo today and as much I hate to say it ( because I loathe them) the shitfish are not far off. They’ve achieved that situation by gaining off us and palming off Hill, the type of player that was holding them back. We really are numpties.Waltzing St Kilda wrote: ↑Sun 30 May 2021 11:47pm Might as well start drafting for 2025 onwards, though.
Recruiters have stuffed us, trading away high picks for the likes of Hill.
if we want to get slam-dunk talent that means another first-round pick this year. And that means trading, unfortunately.
Last edited by CURLY on Mon 31 May 2021 10:40am, edited 1 time in total.
NO IFS OR BUTS HARVS IS KING OF THE AFL
- Impatient Sainter
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 4089
- Joined: Tue 05 Apr 2016 3:30pm
- Has thanked: 2622 times
- Been thanked: 1078 times
Re: List profile = Reality check
One thing that may save our list management this year, is we will finally get access to some decent NGA players. Jack Peris, Mitchito Owens, Scott Beilby, Angus McLennan, Josiah Kyle & Marcus Windhager are all reasonable options.
I am against forcing Billings out. He is not a superstar but is a consistent performer who does a heap of unnoticed work and someone we cant afford to lose.
Last edited by Impatient Sainter on Mon 31 May 2021 10:34am, edited 1 time in total.
- mad saint guy
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 7077
- Joined: Tue 26 Jul 2005 9:44pm
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 52 times
- Been thanked: 366 times
Re: List profile = Reality check
Absolutely agree. People suggesting we trade Billings are misguided. Why trade away a skillful outside player approaching his prime when we probably won't even replace him with a best 22 player? We'd likely draft another Raph Clarke/Brad Howard with whatever pick we get for BillingsB.M wrote: ↑Sun 30 May 2021 11:27pm Why get rid of decent players for picks?
We got rid of McEvoy for picks (18)
We got pick 12 for Goddard
We Got pick 21 for Stanley
We got pick 25 for Dal
Would have been better off keeping all of them!
Picks are NO guarantee
You don’t get better by trading out your good players
Ie/ trade out Billings or Ross for a second round pick
The second round picks we have are Dunstan and Long... would you do those trades
IMO
Draft well with the picks you’ve got
Trade smart to pick up young talent - targeted recruiting
Keep your good players
- Ghost Like
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 6562
- Joined: Wed 19 Sep 2007 10:04pm
- Has thanked: 5788 times
- Been thanked: 1909 times
Re: List profile = Reality check
Agree MSG. We have a plethora of one sided players, the majority inside mids, let's try to get a deal on something we've got too much of.
I'd love Ben King but he'd be wrecked like his brother with the delivery from our mids. A quality mid with excellent pace, composure and disposal will only come from FA.
I'm as sceptical as the next supporter with our ability to get our draft / trade selections right with our current List Managers. I also look at Carlton who have had excellent access to some quality mids via the draft and continue to tread water. Melbourne also did for draft after draft until we gifted them a gem.
Bottom Line - I've no confidence in the current Football Department to get things right or to even acknowledge the wrong. That's where we agree Teflon, a full, independent review of the Football Department needs to be instigated by our President immediately, not at the end of the season.
I'd love Ben King but he'd be wrecked like his brother with the delivery from our mids. A quality mid with excellent pace, composure and disposal will only come from FA.
I'm as sceptical as the next supporter with our ability to get our draft / trade selections right with our current List Managers. I also look at Carlton who have had excellent access to some quality mids via the draft and continue to tread water. Melbourne also did for draft after draft until we gifted them a gem.
Bottom Line - I've no confidence in the current Football Department to get things right or to even acknowledge the wrong. That's where we agree Teflon, a full, independent review of the Football Department needs to be instigated by our President immediately, not at the end of the season.
- Impatient Sainter
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 4089
- Joined: Tue 05 Apr 2016 3:30pm
- Has thanked: 2622 times
- Been thanked: 1078 times
Re: List profile = Reality check
Saints currently have 1 pick only at the MSD.
Current club selections:
- Adelaide: One selection
- Brisbane: No selections
- Carlton: Two selections
- Collingwood: Two selections
- Essendon: One selection
- Fremantle: No selections
- Geelong: No selections
- Gold Coast: Two selections
- GWS: One selection
- Hawthorn: One selection
- Melbourne: Two selections
- North Melbourne: Two selections
- Port Adelaide: One selection
- Richmond: One selection
- St Kilda: One selection
- Sydney: One selection
- West Coast: No selections
- Western Bulldogs: No selections
Our salary cap management & club financial position must be dire, if we cant afford to place a couple of players on the LTI list to draft a couple of decent kids at the MSD. Surely adding new young talent to the list takes precedence over other expenditures.
Crikey they are frustrating, when will this football club get their s*** together and do the simple things right?
Current club selections:
- Adelaide: One selection
- Brisbane: No selections
- Carlton: Two selections
- Collingwood: Two selections
- Essendon: One selection
- Fremantle: No selections
- Geelong: No selections
- Gold Coast: Two selections
- GWS: One selection
- Hawthorn: One selection
- Melbourne: Two selections
- North Melbourne: Two selections
- Port Adelaide: One selection
- Richmond: One selection
- St Kilda: One selection
- Sydney: One selection
- West Coast: No selections
- Western Bulldogs: No selections
Our salary cap management & club financial position must be dire, if we cant afford to place a couple of players on the LTI list to draft a couple of decent kids at the MSD. Surely adding new young talent to the list takes precedence over other expenditures.
Crikey they are frustrating, when will this football club get their s*** together and do the simple things right?
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23098
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 3:53pm
- Has thanked: 9036 times
- Been thanked: 3929 times
Re: List profile = Reality check
Yep, we would be simple to do that.silverhalo wrote: ↑Sun 30 May 2021 10:11pmWe need to trade out a couple of half decent experienced players for picks, simple as that
- The_Dud
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 13956
- Joined: Sun 27 May 2007 9:53pm
- Location: Bendigo
- Has thanked: 1314 times
- Been thanked: 2083 times
Re: List profile = Reality check
I don’t want B King if it’s going to cost us drafting 1 or 2 first round midfielders.
The modern game is all about the midfield, without quality in there (as we can see now) it doesn’t really matter how good your talls are.
The modern game is all about the midfield, without quality in there (as we can see now) it doesn’t really matter how good your talls are.
All posters are equal, but some posters are more equal than others.
-
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 2592
- Joined: Fri 20 Jan 2012 4:57pm
- Has thanked: 2043 times
- Been thanked: 1163 times
Re: List profile = Reality check
Don't often agree with you Curly but WTF? Hill was holding Freo back? Absolute bulls***. He won their B & F in 2017. Fvck off re-writing history pplCURLY wrote: ↑Mon 31 May 2021 9:54amHill wasn't holding Freo back at all he was actually one of there best players. If he didn't want out he would still be there on the weekend.1965 Saint wrote: ↑Mon 31 May 2021 12:41amYes. Watched Port v Freo today and as much I hate to say it ( because I loathe them) the shitfish are not far off. They’ve achieved that situation by gaining off us and palming off Hill, the type of player that was holding them back. We really are numpties.Waltzing St Kilda wrote: ↑Sun 30 May 2021 11:47pm Might as well start drafting for 2025 onwards, though.
Recruiters have stuffed us, trading away high picks for the likes of Hill.
if we want to get slam-dunk talent that means another first-round pick this year. And that means trading, unfortunately.
Go you red, black & white warriors
- SaintPav
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 19062
- Joined: Wed 16 Jun 2010 9:24pm
- Location: Alma Road
- Has thanked: 1598 times
- Been thanked: 2014 times
Re: List profile = Reality check
A lot of crap and lies gets written on this forum.
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
-
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2075
- Joined: Fri 07 Jun 2013 1:03pm
- Has thanked: 224 times
- Been thanked: 344 times
Re: List profile = Reality check
He's an RFA this year isn't he? We might not have much choice.The_Dud wrote: ↑Sun 30 May 2021 11:45pm I’m a huge fan of Billings, I think he’s been easily one of our best this year (and great previous years) BUT if we finish down the bottom as it looks like will happen, and can get a top 10 pick for him, I’d seriously consider letting him go.
If we were contending again this year like last I would 100% be against it, but in the situation we’re in I’d be happy to go to the draft with 2 top 8ish picks and grab the best 2 genuine mids available.
- The_Dud
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 13956
- Joined: Sun 27 May 2007 9:53pm
- Location: Bendigo
- Has thanked: 1314 times
- Been thanked: 2083 times
Re: List profile = Reality check
Yeah that’s what I mean. If he wants to leave at the end of the year on a big contract I wouldn’t try match it, let him go and take the first round compo pick.freely wrote: ↑Mon 31 May 2021 1:35pmHe's an RFA this year isn't he? We might not have much choice.The_Dud wrote: ↑Sun 30 May 2021 11:45pm I’m a huge fan of Billings, I think he’s been easily one of our best this year (and great previous years) BUT if we finish down the bottom as it looks like will happen, and can get a top 10 pick for him, I’d seriously consider letting him go.
If we were contending again this year like last I would 100% be against it, but in the situation we’re in I’d be happy to go to the draft with 2 top 8ish picks and grab the best 2 genuine mids available.
All posters are equal, but some posters are more equal than others.
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 335
- Joined: Mon 27 Jan 2020 10:05pm
- Has thanked: 209 times
- Been thanked: 128 times
Re: List profile = Reality check
Would he need to be offered $800K for us to get a first round compo pick? Not sure exactly how it works. Can't imagine someone offering him that, he's no Brad Hill.The_Dud wrote: ↑Mon 31 May 2021 1:45pmYeah that’s what I mean. If he wants to leave at the end of the year on a big contract I wouldn’t try match it, let him go and take the first round compo pick.freely wrote: ↑Mon 31 May 2021 1:35pmHe's an RFA this year isn't he? We might not have much choice.The_Dud wrote: ↑Sun 30 May 2021 11:45pm I’m a huge fan of Billings, I think he’s been easily one of our best this year (and great previous years) BUT if we finish down the bottom as it looks like will happen, and can get a top 10 pick for him, I’d seriously consider letting him go.
If we were contending again this year like last I would 100% be against it, but in the situation we’re in I’d be happy to go to the draft with 2 top 8ish picks and grab the best 2 genuine mids available.