Hickey, Bruce and Hind

[CURLY]

They grabbed kids at a young age in a non football state and developed them... don’t see the big deal?!

They had to give up draft picks for them. All three of the ones you mentioned cost a first rounder

There getting kids from Albury and surrounds. That’s part of one of the strongest comps you’ll get.

[bangaulegend]

They grabbed kids at a young age in a non football state and developed them... don’t see the big deal?!

They had to give up draft picks for them. All three of the ones you mentioned cost a first rounder

There getting kids from Albury and surrounds. That’s part of one of the strongest comps you’ll get.

Albury is NWS & part of there academy system like it or not they still have the nous to pick the right players which IMO is something we could learn from

[skeptic]

The challenge I see for Ratten at the moment (IMO)... I’m not sure that he’s really that great with structure and roles.

He makes odd choices.

Look at the backline... it’s been described as a mess.

Back 6 in 2020
Paton, Howard, Wilkes
Clarke, Carlisle, Coffield

Long rotating in when Clark went through the middle

That was a great backline.

2021
Paton is out which is a big fault

Howard is being treated like he’s the sole big man needed and is being too heavily relied upon to do the majority of the pack work... he’s good but he’s not infallible and shouldn’t be treated as though he is

Highmore was tried and ok but not ready hence the support for Howard has been...

Wilkes playing taller which has cost us run and Coffield playing taller instead of an intercept role and that’s both cost us run and led to him being exposed.

Then our other genuine tall back in Carlisle can’t even get a game in the poorly exposed defence and is in the ruck!!!

Already weird.

As if that’s already not unsettled enough... the most gifted, composed, defender we had with excellent leadership skills in Clark has been moved out of defence to the midfield where his lack of elite fitness has been exposed and his presence down back has been missed...

Meanwhile, his replacement in SInclair... really isn’t that good a defender, isn’t the most super organised/composed player and really isn’t getting enough ball. He was something of an inconsistent possession getter as a midfielder but could at least run out games... but now he’s an inconsistent quarterback type in a defence that really can’t afford for him to go missing or make bad decisions

Then there’s Long... one of the best vs GWS, middle of the pack vs Melb... and was the freaking sub last week.

Call me crazy but how about going back to what works...

Long, Howard, Wilkes
Coffield, Carlisle, Clarke

Carlisle playing as the second tall, Wilkes running as much as he can, Coffield playing third man up, Clark swooping on the crumbs, firing the ball out and directing traffic... then send SInclair into our desperately underperforming midfield.

Speaking of the midfield... no point playing three small forwards that need supply +++ to contribute when we can’t win the bloody ball or move it down there.
Lonie, Butler, Higgins... drop one of them and bring in Bytel, stick him in the middle and let him actually play out some games in the role that he supposed to do... then stick a guy like Steele in a pocket for a few minutes at a time to rest... he’s kicking more goals than all of them from the midfield anyway... so what’s to lose.

IMO the structure and match ups has been an absolute mess so far and we’ve been put to the sword because of it.

Start putting players into the positions/roles we know they can play

[CURLY]

They grabbed kids at a young age in a non football state and developed them... don’t see the big deal?!

They had to give up draft picks for them. All three of the ones you mentioned cost a first rounder

There getting kids from Albury and surrounds. That’s part of one of the strongest comps you’ll get.

Albury is NWS & part of there academy system like it or not they still have the nous to pick the right players which IMO is something we could learn from

There picking highly rated kids. There not going out on a limb picking them.

[bangaulegend]

The challenge I see for Ratten at the moment (IMO)... I’m not sure that he’s really that great with structure and roles.

He makes odd choices.

Look at the backline... it’s been described as a mess.

Back 6 in 2020
Paton, Howard, Wilkes
Clarke, Carlisle, Coffield

Long rotating in when Clark went through the middle

That was a great backline.

2021
Paton is out which is a big fault

Howard is being treated like he’s the sole big man needed and is being too heavily relied upon to do the majority of the pack work... he’s good but he’s not infallible and shouldn’t be treated as though he is

Highmore was tried and ok but not ready hence the support for Howard has been...

Wilkes playing taller which has cost us run and Coffield playing taller instead of an intercept role and that’s both cost us run and led to him being exposed.

Then our other genuine tall back in Carlisle can’t even get a game in the poorly exposed defence and is in the ruck!!!

Already weird.

As if that’s already not unsettled enough... the most gifted, composed, defender we had with excellent leadership skills in Clark has been moved out of defence to the midfield where his lack of elite fitness has been exposed and his presence down back has been missed...

Meanwhile, his replacement in SInclair... really isn’t that good a defender, isn’t the most super organised/composed player and really isn’t getting enough ball. He was something of an inconsistent possession getter as a midfielder but could at least run out games... but now he’s an inconsistent quarterback type in a defence that really can’t afford for him to go missing or make bad decisions

Then there’s Long... one of the best vs GWS, middle of the pack vs Melb... and was the freaking sub last week.

Call me crazy but how about going back to what works...

Long, Howard, Wilkes
Coffield, Carlisle, Clarke

Carlisle playing as the second tall, Wilkes running as much as he can, Coffield playing third man up, Clark swooping on the crumbs, firing the ball out and directing traffic... then send SInclair into our desperately underperforming midfield.

Speaking of the midfield... no point playing three small forwards that need supply +++ to contribute when we can’t win the bloody ball or move it down there.
Lonie, Butler, Higgins... drop one of them and bring in Bytel, stick him in the middle and let him actually play out some games in the role that he supposed to do... then stick a guy like Steele in a pocket for a few minutes at a time to rest... he’s kicking more goals than all of them from the midfield anyway... so what’s to lose.

IMO the structure and match ups has been an absolute mess so far and we’ve been put to the sword because of it.

Start putting players into the positions/roles we know they can play

I agree but when you are getting absolutely smashed at the centre clearances like last week we could of had the best back line in history & still got beaten maybe not by 75 points but until we can fix our midfield woes I can't see us being competitive against any top 8 contender

[saintsRrising]

They grabbed kids at a young age in a non football state and developed them... don’t see the big deal?!

They had to give up draft picks for them. All three of the ones you mentioned cost a first rounder

The variance in a "first rounder" is huge. Swans get any academy player at a discount.

The Academy system is a rort for the Swans as it gives them a disproportionate and ongoing access to the top-end of the draft well beyond their ladder position.

Over time this is a huge advantage.

The Saints NGA is a joke, as it is just a postage stamp size. When the zones were handed out the Saints got by far the worst area. The Swans have a huge area including some AFL areas.

The Dogs were blessed in getting the No1 player in the draft last year. Did they 'develop" him? Maybe a little, but he was going to be a gun irrespective of what NGA Zone he was in.


Now it is good for the game that some of these players get developed and drawn into the AFL, but there is no hiding the fact that the Swans have gained an unfair advantage from it.

[Premium89]

Hind playing another very good game for The Dopers tonight.

Keeping Papley quiet and running off him and setting up 3 goals with pinpoint passes to leading forwards.

Wasn’t a fan of Hind at St Kilda and not unhappy at all he left, but geez he’s a natural off half back and backs himself in and takes on the game.

We obviously played him out of his best position.

Unfortunately took the game on a little too much in the critical moments of the last quarter - hit a couple of swans lace out. But you’re right - looks much more natural coming off the half back line in 4th or 5th gear.

[Vortex]

Hind playing another very good game for The Dopers tonight.

Keeping Papley quiet and running off him and setting up 3 goals with pinpoint passes to leading forwards.

Wasn’t a fan of Hind at St Kilda and not unhappy at all he left, but geez he’s a natural off half back and backs himself in and takes on the game.

We obviously played him out of his best position.

Unfortunately took the game on a little too much in the critical moments of the last quarter - hit a couple of swans lace out. But you’re right - looks much more natural coming off the half back line in 4th or 5th gear.

That's the problem with those types of players, they are one dimensional, looks good early in a game when the game is there to be taken on and chickens without heads can create havoc and confusion in the opposition, (and in your own teammates), but when the game is in the balance and you need to defend...not so much.

Imagine having a headless chicken in a close final.

[SaintPav]

Hind playing another very good game for The Dopers tonight.

Keeping Papley quiet and running off him and setting up 3 goals with pinpoint passes to leading forwards.

Wasn’t a fan of Hind at St Kilda and not unhappy at all he left, but geez he’s a natural off half back and backs himself in and takes on the game.

We obviously played him out of his best position.

Unfortunately took the game on a little too much in the critical moments of the last quarter - hit a couple of swans lace out. But you’re right - looks much more natural coming off the half back line in 4th or 5th gear.

That's the problem with those types of players, they are one dimensional, looks good early in a game when the game is there to be taken on and chickens without heads can create havoc and confusion in the opposition, (and in your own teammates), but when the game is in the balance and you need to defend...not so much.

Imagine having a headless chicken in a close final.

Interesting discussion. Not saying this is wrong at all but isn't that what we were crying out for in 2010?

[Viscount Jeremiah]

I seem to recall a lot of games where Hind went missing and provided zero impact.

Yeah, he did but we played him as a forward.

3 games into his career at Essendon at HBF where which was always his best position and he seems to be a much much better player.

Can't believe we never at least tried him of the HBF

[saynta]

Playing a lot better as a defender than a forward does any one remember Brent Guerra

Yeah, a pea hearted thug who duded us.

[bangaulegend]

Playing a lot better as a defender than a forward does any one remember Brent Guerra

Yeah, a pea hearted thug who duded us.

We delisted him & he went on to play in to premierships sop I don't know how he duded us anyway thats your opinion & your entitled to it

[The_Dud]

Playing a lot better as a defender than a forward does any one remember Brent Guerra

Yeah, a pea hearted thug who duded us.

[Vortex]

Hind playing another very good game for The Dopers tonight.

Keeping Papley quiet and running off him and setting up 3 goals with pinpoint passes to leading forwards.

Wasn’t a fan of Hind at St Kilda and not unhappy at all he left, but geez he’s a natural off half back and backs himself in and takes on the game.

We obviously played him out of his best position.

Unfortunately took the game on a little too much in the critical moments of the last quarter - hit a couple of swans lace out. But you’re right - looks much more natural coming off the half back line in 4th or 5th gear.

That's the problem with those types of players, they are one dimensional, looks good early in a game when the game is there to be taken on and chickens without heads can create havoc and confusion in the opposition, (and in your own teammates), but when the game is in the balance and you need to defend...not so much.

Imagine having a headless chicken in a close final.

Interesting discussion. Not saying this is wrong at all but isn't that what we were crying out for in 2010?

Yes agree, I think history proves we were crying out for some balance between defence and offence, clearly we had defence perfected. Hind is arguably a poor mans Milne, would two Milnes in the 2010 team have got us across the line in the GF?

[Joffa Burns]

They grabbed kids at a young age in a non football state and developed them... don’t see the big deal?!

They had to give up draft picks for them. All three of the ones you mentioned cost a first rounder

There getting kids from Albury and surrounds. That’s part of one of the strongest comps you’ll get.

Which of their current & potential guns comes from Albury & surrounding areas?

Not Mills, Heeney, Campbell, Gulden, Blakey etc.

Having lived part time in Sydney since 2011 I have seen how they have approached all types of sporting talent across the state to join the academy.

[CURLY]

They grabbed kids at a young age in a non football state and developed them... don’t see the big deal?!

They had to give up draft picks for them. All three of the ones you mentioned cost a first rounder

There getting kids from Albury and surrounds. That’s part of one of the strongest comps you’ll get.

Which of their current & potential guns comes from Albury & surrounding areas?

Not Mills, Heeney, Campbell, Gulden, Blakey etc.

Having lived part time in Sydney since 2011 I have seen how they have approached all types of sporting talent across the state to join the academy.

GWS area is Albury and the Border sorry. The Swans have an enormous advantage with the academy.

[saynta]

If we had a full list to pick from for round one, none of those three would get a game.

[MickThomas]

If we had a full list to pick from for round one, none of those three would get a game.

So Higgins stays in, even though we have an excess of small forwards, and Bruce would stretch defences and take heat off Winx?

[CURLY]

If we had a full list to pick from for round one, none of those three would get a game.

So Higgins stays in, even though we have an excess of small forwards, and Bruce would stretch defences and take heat off Winx?

No way Bruce plays with Marshall Ryder Battle King.

[saynta]

If we had a full list to pick from for round one, none of those three would get a game.

So Higgins stays in, even though we have an excess of small forwards, and Bruce would stretch defences and take heat off Winx?

No way Bruce plays with Marshall Ryder Battle King.

Correct mate and neither would Hickey.

Hind for Higgins would be an absolute joke. No way Hozah.

[Viscount Jeremiah]

If we had a full list to pick from for round one, none of those three would get a game.

So Higgins stays in, even though we have an excess of small forwards, and Bruce would stretch defenses and take heat off Winx?

No way Bruce plays with Marshall Ryder Battle King.

Correct mate and neither would Hickey.

Hind for Higgins would be an absolute joke. No way Hozah.

But why does Hind have to be pigeonholed as a forward? He came to us as a dashing defender, but we never even once tried him in that role and now look how well he's playing for Essendon.

I would take Hind as a defender over Ben Long any day.

Hickey wouldn't play over Ryder and Marhsall but would get a game when they are injured every day of the week and be an excellent backup.

[Joffa Burns]

If we had a full list to pick from for round one, none of those three would get a game.

So Higgins stays in, even though we have an excess of small forwards, and Bruce would stretch defences and take heat off Winx?

No way Bruce plays with Marshall Ryder Battle King.

Really?

You can’t find a spot for a 40 goal key forward who can kick 10 in a game? What about playing him in defense where we are short of decent key talls?

He’s better than Battle, Wood, Highmore, Carslile, McKernan, Hunter & King at this early stage of Kings development. Though I expect King to be significantly better.

He’s good enough for the Dogs best 18 but not ours?

[saynta]

Bruce a better footballer than Carlisle? Highly debatable.

Plays one good game and all if a sudden he is A Grade. Not f****** likely.

[Joffa Burns]

Bruce a better footballer than Carlisle? Highly debatable.

Plays one good game and all if a sudden he is A Grade. Not f****** likely.

Who said Bruce was A grade?
He’s been a solid C - B grader for many seasons.

Carslile can’t get a game In rounds 1 & 2 with no Ryder or Marshall, while Bruce is picked in a currently far better team than ours. Ratten preferred a flanker sized debutant to Carslile as a key back.

At their best, perhaps Carslile. Right now Bruce over him every day of the week.

[B.M]

At his best Bruce was a 50+ goal kicker

Likely to be again this season

So Carlisle being better is very debatable