Hannebery and Hill

[saintkid]

Last night was tremendously disappointing. I sat next to a family down from Ballarat and they were as dejected as we were by that performance. Steele was outstanding, almost superhuman and if it wasn't for his lone hand, the result would have been more embarrassing. A better side than Melbourne would have easily won by 10 plus goals.

Now, leading to the point I want to make and going forward as a team. A top 4 team cannot have two of its highest paid players either not being able to play (in Hannebery) or put in another putrid, insipid performance like Hill did last night. It creates so much imbalance in team dynamics and setting an example for our developing stars in Clark, Coffield, King etc.

Hannebery had another whole pre-season and still is shot. Even if he comes good, for how long anyway? It is like a cancer to the rest of the team to see him sitting in the stands now in his third year at the club with a contract like his!

Hill's laid back attitude is one thing but to see him just wait for the ball and then shank it repeatedly again must also be both a downer and mental letdown to his much less paid teammates, especially the younger guys that need to be led from the front.

We can't just blame players. Management decisions both at a trade and draft level have cost our club for many years now and have largely been responsible for our downhill path since the 2010 grand final. Last night I would have wished to have had McEvoy (I was ropeable when the fools traded him as I thought he was a beauty) or Hickey still playing for us.

Ryder has been super for the club and that Bulldogs final win was due mainly to his great performance but he is 33 years old. At his age the risk of a soft tissue injury is high as it will be again this year. Marshall is a wonderful, hard player that needed support and McEvoy, who we developed, would have been a godsent against Melbourne. Even Hickey would have been a lot better than the recycled duds we had out there but forward planning has been and continues to be a glaring failure at St Kilda.

[Yorkeys]

Further, the coaches allowing Hill to dig himself and the team into a bigger hole when he had clearly lost confidence did no one any favours. Have a rest, reset, everyone has a shocker sometimes but it can be mitigated by using the bench. Ruck situation is a blight on an otherwise excellent recruiting team. And where are the CHF, CHB understudies - do we have no athletic talls in the VFL. Hannebery could well be paid off in a settlement and we could concentrate on our weakness in regard to big players. The person that writes the weekly injury updates on Dan would be pleased, must be running out of euphemisms and clichés.

[skeptic]

On the positive side... with Hannebery on the list, we’re bound to be inundated with more requests for players to join us

[cwrcyn]

We have a young CHF or CHB on our list. His name is Josh Battle who is currently being played on a wing. Why the lack of faith in him holding down a key post?? He was excellent at CHB in 2019 and has shown he can play as a CHF.

We have a good group of youngsters in the 21 to 23 age group, but only one (King) in that 18 to 20 age group. Over the next couple of drafts we need to secure elite young talent.

As for Hannebery, it's the money we're paying him that hurts the most. Hill will be good for us. What other player do we have on our list with elite endurance and leg speed? He stank it up yesterday, though.

We might be having this same conversation about Brad Crouch in a couple of months. He could be Seb Ross mark 2 rather than the elite player some people think we're getting ( no disrespect to Seb Ross).

[saynta]

We have a young CHF or CHB on our list. His name is Josh Battle who is currently being played on a wing. Why the lack of faith in him holding down a key post?? He was excellent at CHB in 2019 and has shown he can play as a CHF.

We have a good group of youngsters in the 21 to 23 age group, but only one (King) in that 18 to 20 age group. Over the next couple of drafts we need to secure elite young talent.

As for Hannebery, it's the money we're paying him that hurts the most. Hill will be good for us. What other player do we have on our list with elite endurance and leg speed? He stank it up yesterday, though.

We might be having this same conversation about Brad Crouch in a couple of months. He could be Seb Ross mark 2 rather than the elite player some people think we're getting ( no disrespect to Seb Ross).

If Brad is as good as Seb, then that will be a big win for us.

[The Fireman]

Hill will not be dropped

[samuraisaint]

The bigger mystery to me is Jake Carlisle.
He is fit and ready to play.
He has been on our list for years and missed a whole season due to the Essendon player suspensions, and then the best part of 2019 after a back operation.
He also missed the majority of last season as well.
He's our centre half back and never plays. What gives?

[The_Dud]

A lot of people can forgive/ignore Hill's shirking of contests when he's hitting targets and delivering lace-out passes, but last night his disposal absolutely fell off a cliff, probably had as many turnovers as all of last year, which makes his usual deficiencies stand out a whooooole lot more.

Hannebery has been the same predictable story since day one, I suggests it's probably best if we just pretend he's not part of the club, so if he actually does come back and start contributing significantly (which he hasn't as of yet) it'll be a nice bonus.

[Impatient Sainter]

Both have been poor recruits when we look at the $$$ they have cost in our salary cap. Melbournes Langdon has been a much better recruit than Hill, as Tom Phillips would have been a better option when he left for Hawthorn.

Then you have Treloar wanting to come to us in the trade period and because of our salary cap we couldnt fit him in due to Hill & Hannebreys disastrous costs.

The entire AFL industry knew Hannebrey's body was shot, but we were so desperate to get a big named recruit to the club we still took the risk. Sydney were so excited to get his salary off their cap they gave him away.

So for me given the cost $$$ both have been a dismal failure for the club!

[saintkid]

Both have been poor recruits when we look at the $$$ they have cost in our salary cap. Melbournes Langdon has been a much better recruit than Hill, as Tom Phillips would have been a better option when he left for Hawthorn.

Then you have Treloar wanting to come to us in the trade period and because of our salary cap we couldnt fit him in because of Hill & Hannebreys disastrous costs.

The entire AFL industry knew Hannebrey's body was shot, but we were so desperate to get a big named recruit to the club we still too the risk. Sydney were so excited to get his salary off their cap they gave him away.

So me given the cost $$$ both have been a dismal failure for the club!

Yes the Hannebery decision was disastrous and reeked of stupidity and unprofessionalism. We have never been fans of Lethlean and he seems to be somewhat untouchable at our club. There's been no accountability or any sense of rationale by Lethlean to give him such an expensive, long contract based on his past game time and medical history at the Swans.

The Bulldogs will get a good return from Treloar. We got shafted by Hannebery thanks to Lethlean...third year in too.

[whiskers3614]

Biggest stuff ups since Lovett and Billy Barrott!
Now for Acres to turn into a gun at Freo to really tighten the screws!

[ace]

Last night was tremendously disappointing. I sat next to a family down from Ballarat and they were as dejected as we were by that performance. Steele was outstanding, almost superhuman and if it wasn't for his lone hand, the result would have been more embarrassing. A better side than Melbourne would have easily won by 10 plus goals.

Now, leading to the point I want to make and going forward as a team. A top 4 team cannot have two of its highest paid players either not being able to play (in Hannebery) or put in another putrid, insipid performance like Hill did last night. It creates so much imbalance in team dynamics and setting an example for our developing stars in Clark, Coffield, King etc.

Hannebery had another whole pre-season and still is shot. Even if he comes good, for how long anyway? It is like a cancer to the rest of the team to see him sitting in the stands now in his third year at the club with a contract like his!

Hill's laid back attitude is one thing but to see him just wait for the ball and then shank it repeatedly again must also be both a downer and mental letdown to his much less paid teammates, especially the younger guys that need to be led from the front.

We can't just blame players. Management decisions both at a trade and draft level have cost our club for many years now and have largely been responsible for our downhill path since the 2010 grand final. Last night I would have wished to have had McEvoy (I was ropeable when the fools traded him as I thought he was a beauty) or Hickey still playing for us.

Ryder has been super for the club and that Bulldogs final win was due mainly to his great performance but he is 33 years old. At his age the risk of a soft tissue injury is high as it will be again this year. Marshall is a wonderful, hard player that needed support and McEvoy, who we developed, would have been a godsent against Melbourne. Even Hickey would have been a lot better than the recycled duds we had out there but forward planning has been and continues to be a glaring failure at St Kilda.

And yet despite your criticism of Hill he had the second highest metre gained of all the St Kilda players.
557metres gained only exceeded by Howard 769metres.
Hill's kicking was definitely off but if every other player got 16 kicks and 5 handballs the game would be beyond doubt.

[Impatient Sainter]

No point in having metres gained if you give it back to the opposition.

[roskilde]

Last night was tremendously disappointing. I sat next to a family down from Ballarat and they were as dejected as we were by that performance. Steele was outstanding, almost superhuman and if it wasn't for his lone hand, the result would have been more embarrassing. A better side than Melbourne would have easily won by 10 plus goals.

Now, leading to the point I want to make and going forward as a team. A top 4 team cannot have two of its highest paid players either not being able to play (in Hannebery) or put in another putrid, insipid performance like Hill did last night. It creates so much imbalance in team dynamics and setting an example for our developing stars in Clark, Coffield, King etc.

Hannebery had another whole pre-season and still is shot. Even if he comes good, for how long anyway? It is like a cancer to the rest of the team to see him sitting in the stands now in his third year at the club with a contract like his!

Hill's laid back attitude is one thing but to see him just wait for the ball and then shank it repeatedly again must also be both a downer and mental letdown to his much less paid teammates, especially the younger guys that need to be led from the front.

We can't just blame players. Management decisions both at a trade and draft level have cost our club for many years now and have largely been responsible for our downhill path since the 2010 grand final. Last night I would have wished to have had McEvoy (I was ropeable when the fools traded him as I thought he was a beauty) or Hickey still playing for us.

Ryder has been super for the club and that Bulldogs final win was due mainly to his great performance but he is 33 years old. At his age the risk of a soft tissue injury is high as it will be again this year. Marshall is a wonderful, hard player that needed support and McEvoy, who we developed, would have been a godsent against Melbourne. Even Hickey would have been a lot better than the recycled duds we had out there but forward planning has been and continues to be a glaring failure at St Kilda.

And yet despite your criticism of Hill he had the second highest metre gained of all the St Kilda players.
557metres gained only exceeded by Howard 769metres.
Hill's kicking was definitely off but if every other player got 16 kicks and 5 handballs the game would be beyond doubt.

I think that's an indication of just how misleading and useless that particular stat can be rather than an indication of hills performance. He had an absolute clanger last night.

[saintkid]

Last night was tremendously disappointing. I sat next to a family down from Ballarat and they were as dejected as we were by that performance. Steele was outstanding, almost superhuman and if it wasn't for his lone hand, the result would have been more embarrassing. A better side than Melbourne would have easily won by 10 plus goals.

Now, leading to the point I want to make and going forward as a team. A top 4 team cannot have two of its highest paid players either not being able to play (in Hannebery) or put in another putrid, insipid performance like Hill did last night. It creates so much imbalance in team dynamics and setting an example for our developing stars in Clark, Coffield, King etc.

Hannebery had another whole pre-season and still is shot. Even if he comes good, for how long anyway? It is like a cancer to the rest of the team to see him sitting in the stands now in his third year at the club with a contract like his!

Hill's laid back attitude is one thing but to see him just wait for the ball and then shank it repeatedly again must also be both a downer and mental letdown to his much less paid teammates, especially the younger guys that need to be led from the front.

We can't just blame players. Management decisions both at a trade and draft level have cost our club for many years now and have largely been responsible for our downhill path since the 2010 grand final. Last night I would have wished to have had McEvoy (I was ropeable when the fools traded him as I thought he was a beauty) or Hickey still playing for us.

Ryder has been super for the club and that Bulldogs final win was due mainly to his great performance but he is 33 years old. At his age the risk of a soft tissue injury is high as it will be again this year. Marshall is a wonderful, hard player that needed support and McEvoy, who we developed, would have been a godsent against Melbourne. Even Hickey would have been a lot better than the recycled duds we had out there but forward planning has been and continues to be a glaring failure at St Kilda.

And yet despite your criticism of Hill he had the second highest metre gained of all the St Kilda players.
557metres gained only exceeded by Howard 769metres.
Hill's kicking was definitely off but if every other player got 16 kicks and 5 handballs the game would be beyond doubt.

Another example of excessive, endless statistical analysis and overcomplicating last night's game review.

Yes he did a lot of running up and down the ground, both in front of the ball and behind the ball. It's bad enough watching him look for the easy ball and it's a lot more painful seeing him not use it well. If Hill can't win his own ball, then the only string to his bow is to be damaging when he uses it, either in setting up play or finishing on the scoreboard. Last night he was woeful in all instances. Nowhere near any level of acceptability, especially on the 'coin' the club is paying him. He came with a supposed high skill set level and ability, to match his running endurance. Well, he didn't show any of that last night and I don't care what his 'metre gained' stats showed. An obscure stat based on what we and others saw last night. It was a further kick in the guts listening to Demons supporters leaving the ground and referring to Hill as one of their better players in their win.

[Wayne42]

Biggest stuff ups since Lovett and Billy Barrott!
Now for Acres to turn into a gun at Freo to really tighten the screws!

I very much doubt the Acres trade will ever bite the club on it's nads.

[saintkid]

My beef is, as I stated, is in the personnel that manage our club. Yes we have had a history of poor player trades but these recent ones after our 2010 GF loss are what upsets us, as you would think they would learn! The McEvoy one was the worst for me. McCartin over the best draft junior at the time in Petracca, was controversial and questionable, to say the least. Well, we know how that went.
However, concentrating in recent years, we have Carlisle, Hannebery and Hill. All recruited on big money and lengthy contracts. Carlisle resigned for a year now on less money but is out of favour,,,why? He was seen as a vital key position defender in our future success. Hannebery is a monumental failure and Hill, well we are still waiting.
The dumb, non-sensical decisions and stuff-ups continue to bite the club hard. Your highest paid players should be playing and leading from the front but at St Kilda this continues to not be the case.

[Yorkeys]

I found my thrill
With Hannebery Hill
But all of those vows you made
Were never to be.......
The mood stood still
With Hannebery Hill
Recruiter was a dill
Re Hannebery Hill

[WellardSaint]

Metres gained (what a crock)
It's like having a bricklayer on a new house build, who lays more bricks per hour than anyone else.
But he mixes the mortar wrong, too much water or not enough, and is hopeless at making the walls straight and even.

Yeah, metres gained is an important stat, hey

[Teflon]

Metres gained (what a crock)
It's like having a bricklayer on a new house build, who lays more bricks per hour than anyone else.
But he mixes the mortar wrong, too much water or not enough, and is hopeless at making the walls straight and even.

Yeah, metres gained is an important stat, hey

Agree
I’d argue running all that way to then kick the ball to the opposition while your team is now entirely out of position is a negative not positive
Metres gained plus Shyte disposal = Shyte night out

[CURLY]

Something was up last night with our skills. So many basic skill errors. At least Hill kept running and presenting. You never just stop doing your role just because you have a few poor kicks.

[Scollop]

I found my thrill
With Hannebery Hill
But all of those vows you made
Were never to be.......
The mood stood still
With Hannebery Hill
Recruiter was a dill
Re Hannebery Hill

Poor recruiters get a bum rap. I reckon Lethers had a half nelson wrestling hold on them and they had to give in

but... I like it

[samoht]

Our recruiters are like the big 4 banks --- a protected species.

re: Hill... (Hannebery is looking more and more like a write-off - who'd've picked it, right?)
Why has Hill gone backwards under Ratten and why has Battle lost the form and confidence he was developing under the previous coach for that matter - I mean he'd found a spot for himself and was doing very, very well at CHB?

Coaches are a nil all draw afaic (I have no preferences - they can all take a running jump), and it's the recruiters that bring success.

The sooner we realise this, the better.

If we had concentrated on getting the best recruiters over the years and had just kept Sheldon as our long-term coach, we'd've all been happy right now. I'm sure of it.

[B.M]

Agreed

Doesn’t take much to coach a gun team

[Dis Believer]

I suggest the heavy conditions last week in our first full length game since the 2019 season took more of a toll than people realise - just have a look at how GWS also went this week. Whilst I doubt that GWS will be challenging for a top 4 spot, they were really off this week as well, and they are not THAT bad....