Saints Financial result
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- Wayne42
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Saints Financial result
St Kilda Football Club has announced an operating profit of $1,246,930 for the financial year ending 31 October 2020, however after accounting for facility funding revenue,
depreciation, amortisation and interest, the club made a statutory net loss of $963,106.
A snapshot of St Kilda’s 2020 financial year:
Operating profit before facility funding revenue, depreciation, amortisation and interest of $1,246,930
Net statutory loss of $963,106
Membership tally of 48,775
Net asset position is $16,257,585
Total debt is 13,827,105
https://www.saints.com.au/news/845848/s ... ial-result
depreciation, amortisation and interest, the club made a statutory net loss of $963,106.
A snapshot of St Kilda’s 2020 financial year:
Operating profit before facility funding revenue, depreciation, amortisation and interest of $1,246,930
Net statutory loss of $963,106
Membership tally of 48,775
Net asset position is $16,257,585
Total debt is 13,827,105
https://www.saints.com.au/news/845848/s ... ial-result
The Saints are under review, will it make any difference to the underachievers ?
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Re: Saints Financial result
I’m concerned about the debt, which I understand is still growing. Unless we have a benefactor who will step in if and when necessary, any material rise in interest rates will quickly see us insolvent.
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Re: Saints Financial result
The Facility Funding revenue is essentially “revenue” drawn down from a Line of Credit supplied to cover operating costs
The provider and the Terms and Conditions attaching to the provision of the facility including any Security provided to the Lender will be identified in the Financial Statements
You could speculate that the provider of the facility is the AFL - noting the unique characteristics of the season just passed
There was a cost to maintaining the Club as it was maintained in Queensland, including players, their families and the Club personnel
Depreciation is a non cash expense
Amortised debt is principal debt repaid
And interest is self explanatory
It could be presented that the debt identified will be a factor for generations
Hence the need to win some Premierships and establish a dynasty
Nothing succeeds like success
The provider and the Terms and Conditions attaching to the provision of the facility including any Security provided to the Lender will be identified in the Financial Statements
You could speculate that the provider of the facility is the AFL - noting the unique characteristics of the season just passed
There was a cost to maintaining the Club as it was maintained in Queensland, including players, their families and the Club personnel
Depreciation is a non cash expense
Amortised debt is principal debt repaid
And interest is self explanatory
It could be presented that the debt identified will be a factor for generations
Hence the need to win some Premierships and establish a dynasty
Nothing succeeds like success
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Re: Saints Financial result
The financial fallout from this health crisis has been varied across households, across businesses, across Industries including Globally
We live in a World of a Pandemic and continue to do so until the WHO reviews that status (on the protocols directed at the WHA, so the WHO is bound by convention, convention reviewed at WHA gatherings. The WHO also has internal and independent review protocols it abides by following any warning being issued, again subject to WHA review which was the fact at the most recent Assembly and this is where Australia has run to its problems trumpeting going outside those established and WHA voted practices)
In these times some have prospered, including households where income has maintained but the ability to spend is curtailed so there are “cashed up” households
Some have had to avail of credit, so borrow because of their circumstances (given they are able to satisfy a lender)
The AFL satisfied a Lender, offering mortgage over the Docklands real estate
That borrowing was to sustain a competition - and revenue from broadcasters and sponsors
The Clubs which comprise the AFL have been similarly impacted, forced to borrowings to meet operational expenses (those they have been unable to cut)
I would anticipate that the AFL is the “lender of last resort” to the Clubs (because it needs the Clubs to have a competition)
How the AFL treats that investment into its Clubs in the future is for the AFL and the Clubs
I don’t imagine the AFL will be bankrupting any of its Clubs
So it is down to the Balance Sheet and the trading viability of the AFL
St Kilda has net assets
Whether that means they are solvent (so able to meet their dues as and when due) is another question given the reliance on the Facility Funding draw down to cover come and go operational costs
There may be Auditor reservations appended to the Annual Accounts - which is not unusual for AFL Clubs
We live in a World of a Pandemic and continue to do so until the WHO reviews that status (on the protocols directed at the WHA, so the WHO is bound by convention, convention reviewed at WHA gatherings. The WHO also has internal and independent review protocols it abides by following any warning being issued, again subject to WHA review which was the fact at the most recent Assembly and this is where Australia has run to its problems trumpeting going outside those established and WHA voted practices)
In these times some have prospered, including households where income has maintained but the ability to spend is curtailed so there are “cashed up” households
Some have had to avail of credit, so borrow because of their circumstances (given they are able to satisfy a lender)
The AFL satisfied a Lender, offering mortgage over the Docklands real estate
That borrowing was to sustain a competition - and revenue from broadcasters and sponsors
The Clubs which comprise the AFL have been similarly impacted, forced to borrowings to meet operational expenses (those they have been unable to cut)
I would anticipate that the AFL is the “lender of last resort” to the Clubs (because it needs the Clubs to have a competition)
How the AFL treats that investment into its Clubs in the future is for the AFL and the Clubs
I don’t imagine the AFL will be bankrupting any of its Clubs
So it is down to the Balance Sheet and the trading viability of the AFL
St Kilda has net assets
Whether that means they are solvent (so able to meet their dues as and when due) is another question given the reliance on the Facility Funding draw down to cover come and go operational costs
There may be Auditor reservations appended to the Annual Accounts - which is not unusual for AFL Clubs
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Re: Saints Financial result
And just to add for clarity, individuals repay debt because at some stage you retire from employment with the impact on income - so in retirement you do not wish to be still servicing debt including paying interest
Business is perpetual (given solvency)
Government is perpetual
Business and government carry debt, time in memorial including that the Capital and Reserves of Companies are debt (dividends paid to the Investors who have lent to the Company)
The measure is not the debt but the enduring performance of the asset that debt is invested into
So the Profit and Loss Account for business and the GDP for government
Government is not a profit making vehicle then deploying that profit to debt reduction (given there are no assets left to sell, so privatisation)
The measure is debt to GDP
Further, the assets government invests in are multi generational assets (including the maintenance of same)
So “repaying the debt” is a furphy
Business is perpetual (given solvency)
Government is perpetual
Business and government carry debt, time in memorial including that the Capital and Reserves of Companies are debt (dividends paid to the Investors who have lent to the Company)
The measure is not the debt but the enduring performance of the asset that debt is invested into
So the Profit and Loss Account for business and the GDP for government
Government is not a profit making vehicle then deploying that profit to debt reduction (given there are no assets left to sell, so privatisation)
The measure is debt to GDP
Further, the assets government invests in are multi generational assets (including the maintenance of same)
So “repaying the debt” is a furphy
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Re: Saints Financial result
Just revalue Max, Hunter and Nick to their current worth. That should cover the "statutory loss" (which is of course a real loss accounting standards wise, but noting the big revenue deferral - I guess losses are easier to announce in a Covid year so bung it on). Fragile margins but, and large "inventory". The 2021 draw is a money spinner and RSEA Park aka Moorabbin can only increase in value. If we can get Dusty to let us know the points spread for a Saints upset win the Sydney bookie wants for our Richmond games that can be a bit of a windfall for us too. Membership is likely to climb in 21 as well. And 2020 was an opportunity to rationalise staff and costs - although player payments will have to be restored . Hope Gil can negotiate a good TV deal for the next contract period. Overall looks ok - impressive Board/Management team - at least on glossy paper.
- Selhurst Saint
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Re: Saints Financial result
It is also very important to point out that the $2.3 Million we would normally have received in October for membership instalments was deferred to Nov and therefore the next financial year.
"...If there has been one recurring theme through this whole shocking mess, it has been the misguided, inflated egos and their ill-judged determination to cling to long-standing old boy friendships. The bad advice that has guided the selfish and culpable James Hird has not only punctuated this saga but symbolised it..."
- The_Dud
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Re: Saints Financial result
Vertical marketing
All posters are equal, but some posters are more equal than others.
- asiu
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Re: Saints Financial result
“... at least on glossy paper “
nice work
nice work
.name the ways , thought manipulates the State of Presence away.
.tipara waranta kani nina-tu.
- asiu
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Re: Saints Financial result
that was a big read !
good work
why the deferral of ‘membership $’ in all that
‘n
was that structural or a sideways accounting shift
good work
why the deferral of ‘membership $’ in all that
‘n
was that structural or a sideways accounting shift
.name the ways , thought manipulates the State of Presence away.
.tipara waranta kani nina-tu.
- Selhurst Saint
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Re: Saints Financial result
I think the club decided it was probably not a great idea to start charging for 2021 memberships while the 2020 season was still alive. Our debt would have been $2.3M less had we charged the instalment in October like normal.
"...If there has been one recurring theme through this whole shocking mess, it has been the misguided, inflated egos and their ill-judged determination to cling to long-standing old boy friendships. The bad advice that has guided the selfish and culpable James Hird has not only punctuated this saga but symbolised it..."
- Sanctorum
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Re: Saints Financial result
Today's announcement by the AFL that the broadcast deal with 7, Foxtel and Telstra has been extended to end 2024 at the rate of $473 million p.a. should ensure that both the clubs and the competition will continue to flourish for the next 4 years.To the top wrote: ↑Wed 23 Dec 2020 8:34am The financial fallout from this health crisis has been varied across households, across businesses, across Industries including Globally
We live in a World of a Pandemic and continue to do so until the WHO reviews that status (on the protocols directed at the WHA, so the WHO is bound by convention, convention reviewed at WHA gatherings. The WHO also has internal and independent review protocols it abides by following any warning being issued, again subject to WHA review which was the fact at the most recent Assembly and this is where Australia has run to its problems trumpeting going outside those established and WHA voted practices)
In these times some have prospered, including households where income has maintained but the ability to spend is curtailed so there are “cashed up” households
Some have had to avail of credit, so borrow because of their circumstances (given they are able to satisfy a lender)
The AFL satisfied a Lender, offering mortgage over the Docklands real estate
That borrowing was to sustain a competition - and revenue from broadcasters and sponsors
The Clubs which comprise the AFL have been similarly impacted, forced to borrowings to meet operational expenses (those they have been unable to cut)
I would anticipate that the AFL is the “lender of last resort” to the Clubs (because it needs the Clubs to have a competition)
How the AFL treats that investment into its Clubs in the future is for the AFL and the Clubs
I don’t imagine the AFL will be bankrupting any of its Clubs
So it is down to the Balance Sheet and the trading viability of the AFL
St Kilda has net assets
Whether that means they are solvent (so able to meet their dues as and when due) is another question given the reliance on the Facility Funding draw down to cover come and go operational costs
There may be Auditor reservations appended to the Annual Accounts - which is not unusual for AFL Clubs
"Where there is no hope, it is incumbent on us to invent it.."
Albert Camus (1913-1960) French philospher
Albert Camus (1913-1960) French philospher
- shanegrambeau
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Re: Saints Financial result
Is it better to think of the financial viability of the club or the AFL in general when we think of what level of stewardship and enterprise sustains our St kilda idea?
It seems to me, that debt is something - and this goes for governments - that is entirely implicitly accepted as being part of the general architecture and yet debt rhetoric is something of a tool, a political lever.
Also implicitly accepted is that we are just making up numbers in a false vacuum...there is a bubble because the ins and outs that are meaningless, if the whole kit and kaboodle is suspended by another giant machine.
It seems to me, that debt is something - and this goes for governments - that is entirely implicitly accepted as being part of the general architecture and yet debt rhetoric is something of a tool, a political lever.
Also implicitly accepted is that we are just making up numbers in a false vacuum...there is a bubble because the ins and outs that are meaningless, if the whole kit and kaboodle is suspended by another giant machine.
You're quite brilliant Shane, yeah..terrific!
- SaintPav
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Re: Saints Financial result
It’s not a problem, apparently.
What are our debt ratios?
What about cash flows?
One would think that debt servicing during a “global pandemic” and recession/depression is an issue?
Asset values can get written down too.
Accounting theory 101: businesses also exist into perpetuity apparently. Just compare the ASX 200 to its equivalent in 2000. How many firms are still on it?
The Saints and a few others are being bankrolled by the AFL and a lucrative media deal and hopefully we continue to be subsidised, but there are risks around serving this amount of debt and there’s no guarantee that this arrangement will continue indefinitely.
FMD.
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
- ace
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Re: Saints Financial result
Whose example are they following ?
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
- ace
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Re: Saints Financial result
Don't know any statistics but I am guessing more have left the ASX200 than still remain.SaintPav wrote: ↑Wed 23 Dec 2020 6:13pmIt’s not a problem, apparently.
What are our debt ratios?
What about cash flows?
One would think that debt servicing during a “global pandemic” and recession/depression is an issue?
Asset values can get written down too.
Accounting theory 101: businesses also exist into perpetuity apparently. Just compare the ASX 200 to its equivalent in 2000. How many firms are still on it?
The Saints and a few others are being bankrolled by the AFL and a lucrative media deal and hopefully we continue to be subsidised, but there are risks around serving this amount of debt and there’s no guarantee that this arrangement will continue indefinitely.
FMD.
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
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Re: Saints Financial result
In terms of Companies listed on the ASX200 there are always movements based on considerations such as the “pecking order”, so Capitalisation courtesy of performance, “spin offs” such as Coles as a Listed Company from Westfarmers, M&A’s, IPO’s etc etc
In regard IPO’s it can go the other way and Companies privatise (so Pty Ltd from Limited)
There are also name changes such as ICI (once)
And some Companies fail and are wound up such as HIH after acquiring FAI and ABC Learning (with “Fast” Eddie Groves)
So there are comings and goings including some being liquidated to evade tax obligations and penalties applied by the ACCC
Then there are those which fail because of fraud
But, in the normal course, Companies are perpetual
There is a banking industry providing a raft of facilities to those Companies and the Group they are a component of
And hopefully without a need to appoint to recover what is owed to the bank
In regard IPO’s it can go the other way and Companies privatise (so Pty Ltd from Limited)
There are also name changes such as ICI (once)
And some Companies fail and are wound up such as HIH after acquiring FAI and ABC Learning (with “Fast” Eddie Groves)
So there are comings and goings including some being liquidated to evade tax obligations and penalties applied by the ACCC
Then there are those which fail because of fraud
But, in the normal course, Companies are perpetual
There is a banking industry providing a raft of facilities to those Companies and the Group they are a component of
And hopefully without a need to appoint to recover what is owed to the bank
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Re: Saints Financial result
So, by extension, the Club receives $2.3 Million in membership remittances in the month of October, the season concluding on the last day of September so a 4 week period until the Club closes its books
I would have expected that such receipts pertaining to the next season would be treated as pre-payments
That would have been my instruction if any accounting firm presented the bringing forward of revenue for out periods - and I would have instructed a change of accountants for the customer/banker relationship to continue
What was the total of Membership revenue - noting the membership numbers?
I would have expected that such receipts pertaining to the next season would be treated as pre-payments
That would have been my instruction if any accounting firm presented the bringing forward of revenue for out periods - and I would have instructed a change of accountants for the customer/banker relationship to continue
What was the total of Membership revenue - noting the membership numbers?
- asiu
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Re: Saints Financial result
so i gather from that ToT ,
given that new accountants were to be recommended
... the membership $ (issue) is a sideways accounting shift(y)
note : i’m out of my depth here
regardless of drowning
so .... shifty accounting is in our favour ... yes
... surely
thats good then
yes ?
given that new accountants were to be recommended
... the membership $ (issue) is a sideways accounting shift(y)
note : i’m out of my depth here
regardless of drowning
so .... shifty accounting is in our favour ... yes
... surely
thats good then
yes ?
.name the ways , thought manipulates the State of Presence away.
.tipara waranta kani nina-tu.
- SaintPav
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Re: Saints Financial result
The ’going concern’ accounting assumption is for financial reporting purposes; it doesn't necessarily reflect economic reality.
Am I wrong?
Am I wrong?
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Re: Saints Financial result
It distorts (and from the foregoing it appears there is a change in treatment to exclude these pre-payments)
Plus, if there is a need to refund for any reason?
Because the product is not delivered
Just examples
What are you looking for the Financial Statements to provide?
So in regards any particular playing season that revenue received equaled or exceeded (such that debt can be repaid) the costs of operations for that particular playing season
Hence the Accounting year concluding when it does, as soon as practical after the season concludes and not 30 June (or with some 31 December where there is ultimate foreign ownerships and those parent Companies close their books on 31/12)
So are expenses for the next season bought forward?
In regards Companies, expenses from out years can be bought forward to reduce tax liabilities (eg Qantas) including to receive tax holidays (plus writing down asset valuations)
But there is no such incentive for a not for profit entity because there is no tax assessment issued
It distorts from the answer you are seeking
Plus, if there is a need to refund for any reason?
Because the product is not delivered
Just examples
What are you looking for the Financial Statements to provide?
So in regards any particular playing season that revenue received equaled or exceeded (such that debt can be repaid) the costs of operations for that particular playing season
Hence the Accounting year concluding when it does, as soon as practical after the season concludes and not 30 June (or with some 31 December where there is ultimate foreign ownerships and those parent Companies close their books on 31/12)
So are expenses for the next season bought forward?
In regards Companies, expenses from out years can be bought forward to reduce tax liabilities (eg Qantas) including to receive tax holidays (plus writing down asset valuations)
But there is no such incentive for a not for profit entity because there is no tax assessment issued
It distorts from the answer you are seeking
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Re: Saints Financial result
The club was making reparations for the 2020 membership upgrades. This would have absorbed time and man power. They made this fairly clear and the workforce was returning late too.
2021 easy pay pledges for memberships were delayed accordingly. The 2020 books would have already been cooked prior.
Only those early pledges would have counted anyway. We need 50000 of those next year, with at least 25000 reserved seats.
The club is being run very well. This is certain. The big concern is maintaining momentum onfield, to boost other areas of revenue. This seems to be unfolding pretty well too.
2021 easy pay pledges for memberships were delayed accordingly. The 2020 books would have already been cooked prior.
Only those early pledges would have counted anyway. We need 50000 of those next year, with at least 25000 reserved seats.
The club is being run very well. This is certain. The big concern is maintaining momentum onfield, to boost other areas of revenue. This seems to be unfolding pretty well too.
- ausfatcat
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Re: Saints Financial result
Just a FYI with the ongoing concern portion of the financial statement it has been in every saints finance report for at least 15 years, and basically means without payments from AFL (ie salary cap payments every club receives) we would be broke