Saints unlikely to redraft Paddy
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
- ace
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 10734
- Joined: Sun 16 Dec 2007 3:28pm
- Location: St Kilda
- Has thanked: 30 times
- Been thanked: 819 times
Re: Saints unlikely to redraft Paddy
The AFL says it won't stand in the way of Sydney giving Paddy McCartin a second chance on an AFL list. But there’s a catch.
Sydney is free to select former No.1 pick Paddy McCartin as a free agent as he moves a step closer to a contentious return from severe concussion symptoms.
But the AFL would consult with Sydney’s doctors over his medical fitness and the league would need to give the final tick of approval before he was able to play an AFL game.
Swans coach John Longmire said on Monday “all options are open” for the club to select McCartin despite a spate of concussions that ended his time at St Kilda.
The Herald Sun understands the league would not stand in the way of him being drafted or selected as a rookie, but would closely monitor his progress.
Rival clubs believe the most likely option would be the Swans securing the delisted free agent as a supplementary selection who would train with the club from January 6 next year before a decision to elevate him to their list ahead of Round 1.
It would allow Sydney to assess his progress and ramp up his training even further after the league approved his return to training after detailed concussion tests at the Epworth Hospital early this year.
Geelong and St Kilda had some early interest in McCartin but have moved on, with Sydney the only club to declare its interest.
The league has carefully assessed his progress and is supportive of him returning to football at the AFL or lower levels while also being fully aware of his history and the severity of his symptoms.
It means they would work in concert with the Swans over the course of a pre-season and would give the final tick-off if he got through several months of training.
Clubs are aware that for all his wondrous potential, McCartin might be only one more severe concussion away from ending his career.
So they are reluctant to give up a guaranteed list spot on him, with many AFL club figures keen to see him succeed but scared for his long-term health given his history.
A league spokesman told the Herald Sun last month: “Given Paddy’s previous concussion history, the AFL will work with him and any potential club that he may play for, in assessing his fitness to return to play in the AFL or at another level of football.”
He has been training all season and is in career-best shape.
Longmire said on Monday his club remained interested in bringing the former Saint to the harbour city to join his brother Tom at the Swans.
“We’ve looked at him,” he told SEN.
“Going into the draft and the rookie draft in the next couple of weeks, we’ve certainly got all options open.
“There’s been no guarantees made.
“We just need to make sure we keep everything open for us and that’s what we’re doing.
“Obviously, we love what Tommy’s been able to do with us and the McCartin family are fantastic and we’ll see what happens on draft night.
“We have to make sure we keep all our options open and we’ll see what happens.”
Former AFL researcher Alan Pearce told the Herald Sun clubs would have to consider their duty of care to McCartin if they were to recruit him.
“Players like Shaun Smith have already told him he shouldn’t do it. I am sure John Barnes would be the same. Barnesy has only just turned 50 and he has said his quality of life isn’t great,” he said.
“That could be 25 years away for Paddy but it comes around quickly. There is the short-term pain in not playing but the long-term gain in your brain health.”
McCartin said in an emotional radio interview after he left St Kilda he was a “shell of the person” he had once been.
But after a panel of concussion experts gave him permission to return to training in February he has ramped up that program.
He said recently he believed he could make a successful return to AFL football despite the concussion history.
“I feel really fit. I feel motivated and I feel like I am going to be fine,” McCartin said.
“It has not been one of those things where I think I have to do it, I really want to do it … and that is all off the back of the medical clearance that I was given about 10 months ago.”
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/ ... 0c880bf465
Sydney is free to select former No.1 pick Paddy McCartin as a free agent as he moves a step closer to a contentious return from severe concussion symptoms.
But the AFL would consult with Sydney’s doctors over his medical fitness and the league would need to give the final tick of approval before he was able to play an AFL game.
Swans coach John Longmire said on Monday “all options are open” for the club to select McCartin despite a spate of concussions that ended his time at St Kilda.
The Herald Sun understands the league would not stand in the way of him being drafted or selected as a rookie, but would closely monitor his progress.
Rival clubs believe the most likely option would be the Swans securing the delisted free agent as a supplementary selection who would train with the club from January 6 next year before a decision to elevate him to their list ahead of Round 1.
It would allow Sydney to assess his progress and ramp up his training even further after the league approved his return to training after detailed concussion tests at the Epworth Hospital early this year.
Geelong and St Kilda had some early interest in McCartin but have moved on, with Sydney the only club to declare its interest.
The league has carefully assessed his progress and is supportive of him returning to football at the AFL or lower levels while also being fully aware of his history and the severity of his symptoms.
It means they would work in concert with the Swans over the course of a pre-season and would give the final tick-off if he got through several months of training.
Clubs are aware that for all his wondrous potential, McCartin might be only one more severe concussion away from ending his career.
So they are reluctant to give up a guaranteed list spot on him, with many AFL club figures keen to see him succeed but scared for his long-term health given his history.
A league spokesman told the Herald Sun last month: “Given Paddy’s previous concussion history, the AFL will work with him and any potential club that he may play for, in assessing his fitness to return to play in the AFL or at another level of football.”
He has been training all season and is in career-best shape.
Longmire said on Monday his club remained interested in bringing the former Saint to the harbour city to join his brother Tom at the Swans.
“We’ve looked at him,” he told SEN.
“Going into the draft and the rookie draft in the next couple of weeks, we’ve certainly got all options open.
“There’s been no guarantees made.
“We just need to make sure we keep everything open for us and that’s what we’re doing.
“Obviously, we love what Tommy’s been able to do with us and the McCartin family are fantastic and we’ll see what happens on draft night.
“We have to make sure we keep all our options open and we’ll see what happens.”
Former AFL researcher Alan Pearce told the Herald Sun clubs would have to consider their duty of care to McCartin if they were to recruit him.
“Players like Shaun Smith have already told him he shouldn’t do it. I am sure John Barnes would be the same. Barnesy has only just turned 50 and he has said his quality of life isn’t great,” he said.
“That could be 25 years away for Paddy but it comes around quickly. There is the short-term pain in not playing but the long-term gain in your brain health.”
McCartin said in an emotional radio interview after he left St Kilda he was a “shell of the person” he had once been.
But after a panel of concussion experts gave him permission to return to training in February he has ramped up that program.
He said recently he believed he could make a successful return to AFL football despite the concussion history.
“I feel really fit. I feel motivated and I feel like I am going to be fine,” McCartin said.
“It has not been one of those things where I think I have to do it, I really want to do it … and that is all off the back of the medical clearance that I was given about 10 months ago.”
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/ ... 0c880bf465
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 921
- Joined: Sat 24 Oct 2020 10:22am
- Has thanked: 217 times
- Been thanked: 906 times
Re: Saints unlikely to redraft Paddy
Unfortunately for Paddy, the first head knock he gets will likely be the end of his career.
I'm glad we're not going to pick him up, certainly not for his football ability but the heart would be in our collective mouths every time he went up for a mark in a pack situation.
I really fear for his long term welfare as it stands now, let alone him playing again!
I'm glad we're not going to pick him up, certainly not for his football ability but the heart would be in our collective mouths every time he went up for a mark in a pack situation.
I really fear for his long term welfare as it stands now, let alone him playing again!
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 943
- Joined: Fri 16 Sep 2011 10:39am
- Has thanked: 54 times
- Been thanked: 113 times
Re: Saints unlikely to redraft Paddy
I am really conflicted on this.
While I can see why he wants to try to resurrect his career and I would love to see him be successful I also sort of hope nobody drafts him.
With his concussion history I can only see the situation ending badly.
I wish the club or the AFL could offer him a role behind the scenes maybe at Sandringham or something.
Give him another channel for keeping his football dream alive even if it is not as a player.
While I can see why he wants to try to resurrect his career and I would love to see him be successful I also sort of hope nobody drafts him.
With his concussion history I can only see the situation ending badly.
I wish the club or the AFL could offer him a role behind the scenes maybe at Sandringham or something.
Give him another channel for keeping his football dream alive even if it is not as a player.
- Ghost Like
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 6562
- Joined: Wed 19 Sep 2007 10:04pm
- Has thanked: 5788 times
- Been thanked: 1909 times
Re: Saints unlikely to redraft Paddy
I've no confliction. If we had chosen Petracca like 99% of every other recruiting panel would have, we would be sympathetic and impartial that the kid / young adult should give up the dream. A travesty we chose him, a tragedy what's happened with him.SinCitySainter wrote: ↑Fri 04 Dec 2020 4:35pm I am really conflicted on this.
While I can see why he wants to try to resurrect his career and I would love to see him be successful I also sort of hope nobody drafts him.
With his concussion history I can only see the situation ending badly.
I wish the club or the AFL could offer him a role behind the scenes maybe at Sandringham or something.
Give him another channel for keeping his football dream alive even if it is not as a player.
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 526
- Joined: Wed 16 Sep 2020 8:23pm
- Has thanked: 23 times
- Been thanked: 55 times
Re: Saints unlikely to redraft Paddy
I feel sorry for Paddy. He obviously does not have a quality person in his camp to advise him against this. Paddy coming back to footy is bordering on insanity. Imagine him bending down for the ball and Long coming the other way?
- asiu
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 10313
- Joined: Thu 08 Apr 2010 8:11pm
- Has thanked: 1327 times
- Been thanked: 932 times
Re: Saints unlikely to redraft Paddy
not sure you can say that
as an obviousment
given context , its more likely
most have advised him against it ,
but now fall in behind Team Paddy
as they prep for sail
as an obviousment
given context , its more likely
most have advised him against it ,
but now fall in behind Team Paddy
as they prep for sail
![Image](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_iUpoNBZyaBc/R0zVk-1LCZI/AAAAAAAAAg0/9eeT7D6cnaA/s320/compass-blu-265x220.gif)
.name the ways , thought manipulates the State of Presence away.
.tipara waranta kani nina-tu.
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 402
- Joined: Fri 16 Sep 2011 9:37am
- Has thanked: 3871 times
- Been thanked: 150 times
Re: Saints unlikely to redraft Paddy
Actually, I would have said that 99.99% would have taken Petracca, given that our team WAS SCREAMING OUT FOR A MIDFIELDER, DESPERATELY, but I agree with your point!Ghost Like wrote: ↑Fri 04 Dec 2020 7:52pmI've no confliction. If we had chosen Petracca like 99% of every other recruiting panel would have, we would be sympathetic and impartial that the kid / young adult should give up the dream. A travesty we chose him, a tragedy what's happened with him.SinCitySainter wrote: ↑Fri 04 Dec 2020 4:35pm I am really conflicted on this.
While I can see why he wants to try to resurrect his career and I would love to see him be successful I also sort of hope nobody drafts him.
With his concussion history I can only see the situation ending badly.
I wish the club or the AFL could offer him a role behind the scenes maybe at Sandringham or something.
Give him another channel for keeping his football dream alive even if it is not as a player.
- saintbrat
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 44575
- Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 4:11pm
- Location: saints zone
- Has thanked: 6 times
- Been thanked: 188 times
Re: Saints unlikely to redraft Paddy
It would seem that Paddy Did not get picked up, disappointing for him but his health first priority.
StReNgTh ThRoUgH LoYaLtY
Rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly..!!
![Image](http://www.saintsmembership.com.au/theme/afl-stkilda/img/how-i-want-to-be.png)
MEMBERSHIP 2014 31,134 Membership 2015 32,746 MEMBERSHIP 2016 - 38,101
MEMBERSHIP 2017 42,095 , Membership 2018 46,998
MEMBERSHIP 2019 43,106 http://saintsational.net/viewtopic.php? ... 9#p1816890
MEMBERSHIP 2020 48,588 http://saintsational.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=100107
Rejoicing in hope, patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly..!!
![Image](http://www.saintsmembership.com.au/theme/afl-stkilda/img/how-i-want-to-be.png)
MEMBERSHIP 2014 31,134 Membership 2015 32,746 MEMBERSHIP 2016 - 38,101
MEMBERSHIP 2017 42,095 , Membership 2018 46,998
MEMBERSHIP 2019 43,106 http://saintsational.net/viewtopic.php? ... 9#p1816890
MEMBERSHIP 2020 48,588 http://saintsational.net/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=100107
- diddley
- Club Player
- Posts: 621
- Joined: Sat 29 Oct 2016 12:53am
- Has thanked: 62 times
- Been thanked: 177 times
Re: Saints unlikely to redraft Paddy
I would have thought if anyone was going to grab him, it would be as a SSP rookie pick.
You may find he will get permission to train with a team like Sydney, and then they can decide wether they want to grab him closer to the start of the season, much like Melbourne did with Harley Bennell.
-
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2490
- Joined: Mon 19 Mar 2012 8:54pm
- Has thanked: 140 times
- Been thanked: 546 times
Re: Saints unlikely to redraft Paddy
I see similarities to Will Pucovski both very talented sportsmen but very susceptible to minor head trauma that leads to concussion. Both have put so much effort to get to a point where livelihood pretty much depend on it only to be crimpled by a curse that just won't let them reach their full potential ![Sad :(](./images/smilies/icon_sad.gif)
![Sad :(](./images/smilies/icon_sad.gif)
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 6072
- Joined: Sat 12 Sep 2015 1:03pm
- Has thanked: 336 times
- Been thanked: 1557 times
Re: Saints unlikely to redraft Paddy
Ever been hit in the helmet by a bouncer? Minor head trauma?bangaulegend wrote: ↑Thu 10 Dec 2020 11:16pm I see similarities to Will Pucovski both very talented sportsmen but very susceptible to minor head trauma that leads to concussion. Both have put so much effort to get to a point where livelihood pretty much depend on it only to be crimpled by a curse that just won't let them reach their full potential![]()
- shanegrambeau
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 5960
- Joined: Thu 25 Jan 2018 2:15pm
- Has thanked: 327 times
- Been thanked: 710 times
Re: Saints unlikely to redraft Paddy
Perhaps VFA - whatever it is called, SANFL or WAFL may come a calling?
You're quite brilliant Shane, yeah..terrific!
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 6072
- Joined: Sat 12 Sep 2015 1:03pm
- Has thanked: 336 times
- Been thanked: 1557 times
Re: Saints unlikely to redraft Paddy
I reckon the Danny Frawley centre may come calling.shanegrambeau wrote: ↑Tue 15 Dec 2020 1:06am Perhaps VFA - whatever it is called, SANFL or WAFL may come a calling?
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 402
- Joined: Fri 16 Sep 2011 9:37am
- Has thanked: 3871 times
- Been thanked: 150 times
Re: Saints unlikely to redraft Paddy
Hi CQ, this post reminds me about when I was working with a girl, who was from a whole family that loved cricket.CQ SAINT wrote: ↑Mon 14 Dec 2020 11:23pmEver been hit in the helmet by a bouncer? Minor head trauma?bangaulegend wrote: ↑Thu 10 Dec 2020 11:16pm I see similarities to Will Pucovski both very talented sportsmen but very susceptible to minor head trauma that leads to concussion. Both have put so much effort to get to a point where livelihood pretty much depend on it only to be crimpled by a curse that just won't let them reach their full potential![]()
One Saturday afternoon, she was watching an international test match with her Sister (who is renown for being witty, very quickly) and the commentator on the TV said "and that's a nasty bouncer - it's risen up and struck the batsman, right on the helmet". Her Sister, with no time to think about it, just said: "well, he should have been wearing a box!".
- meher baba
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 7196
- Joined: Mon 14 Aug 2006 6:49am
- Location: Tasmania
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 502 times
Re: Saints unlikely to redraft Paddy
Normally I am dismissive of people who criticise the decisions of others by making use of 20/20 hindsight. And it's particularly easy to accuse McCartin's critics of this because of his diabetes (which, as far as I can see, has never been an issue) and his tendency to become concussed (which wasn't obvious at the time he was drafted, although the root cause of it - his poor positional sense - probably was).Ghost Like wrote: ↑Fri 04 Dec 2020 7:52pm I've no confliction. If we had chosen Petracca like 99% of every other recruiting panel would have, we would be sympathetic and impartial that the kid / young adult should give up the dream. A travesty we chose him, a tragedy what's happened with him.
But it was 100% clear to everyone at the time of the draft that Petracca was easily the best prospect in a pretty uninspiring draft: the most obvious #1 draft pick since Bryce Gibbs. McCartin was a star of junior football, but professional recruiters should have picked up his limited agility and his poor positional sense: shortcomings that he displayed from his debut for the Saints. So it's not 20/20 hindsight to criticise the recruiters of the time for their poor judgement. It was obvious to most people in the football world at the time: but, of course, they were all too polite to say anything back then, especially in light of the fact that all agree that McCartin is an absolutely terrific bloke.
I feel incredibly sorry for him that he has been unable to pursue an AFL career to the best of his abilities. If he hadn't experienced his concussion problems, I think he might have had a reasonable AFL career as a fair average quality full forward for a poor to mediocre club: occupying space on the forward line and creating opportunities for others, while also kicking the occasional goal. But IMO he was never going to become a star. And surely the point of having a #1 draft pick is to try and recruit an A grade player. Petracca looked highly likely to become such a player at the time, and he has indeed developed into one. More fool us.
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."
- Jonathan Swift
- Jonathan Swift
- asiu
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 10313
- Joined: Thu 08 Apr 2010 8:11pm
- Has thanked: 1327 times
- Been thanked: 932 times
Re: Saints unlikely to redraft Paddy
nuh
Ever been hit in the helmet by a bouncer? Minor head trauma?
luckily
.. ‘they’ tried though !!
coz i hit plenty of them
when i had the pill.
![Image](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_iUpoNBZyaBc/R0zVk-1LCZI/AAAAAAAAAg0/9eeT7D6cnaA/s320/compass-blu-265x220.gif)
.name the ways , thought manipulates the State of Presence away.
.tipara waranta kani nina-tu.
- asiu
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 10313
- Joined: Thu 08 Apr 2010 8:11pm
- Has thanked: 1327 times
- Been thanked: 932 times
Re: Saints unlikely to redraft Paddy
call me ... an angry terry alderman
with a ripper rising ball
off just short of a good length
hehehe
didn’t make a lot of friends out of it
but **** em
with a ripper rising ball
off just short of a good length
hehehe
didn’t make a lot of friends out of it
but **** em
![Image](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_iUpoNBZyaBc/R0zVk-1LCZI/AAAAAAAAAg0/9eeT7D6cnaA/s320/compass-blu-265x220.gif)
.name the ways , thought manipulates the State of Presence away.
.tipara waranta kani nina-tu.
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 370
- Joined: Wed 11 Nov 2020 9:54pm
- Has thanked: 853 times
- Been thanked: 197 times
Re: Saints unlikely to redraft Paddy
He was just an average kick for goal. Hardly ideal for a future full forward. This obvious weakness was masked at junior level by his strong marking and the fact he got lots of shots on goal. Once he entered the AFL at senior level, this weakness became even more apparent. Thank goodness we have some competent recruiters now.meher baba wrote: ↑Tue 15 Dec 2020 10:55amNormally I am dismissive of people who criticise the decisions of others by making use of 20/20 hindsight. And it's particularly easy to accuse McCartin's critics of this because of his diabetes (which, as far as I can see, has never been an issue) and his tendency to become concussed (which wasn't obvious at the time he was drafted, although the root cause of it - his poor positional sense - probably was).Ghost Like wrote: ↑Fri 04 Dec 2020 7:52pm I've no confliction. If we had chosen Petracca like 99% of every other recruiting panel would have, we would be sympathetic and impartial that the kid / young adult should give up the dream. A travesty we chose him, a tragedy what's happened with him.
But it was 100% clear to everyone at the time of the draft that Petracca was easily the best prospect in a pretty uninspiring draft: the most obvious #1 draft pick since Bryce Gibbs. McCartin was a star of junior football, but professional recruiters should have picked up his limited agility and his poor positional sense: shortcomings that he displayed from his debut for the Saints. So it's not 20/20 hindsight to criticise the recruiters of the time for their poor judgement. It was obvious to most people in the football world at the time: but, of course, they were all too polite to say anything back then, especially in light of the fact that all agree that McCartin is an absolutely terrific bloke.
I feel incredibly sorry for him that he has been unable to pursue an AFL career to the best of his abilities. If he hadn't experienced his concussion problems, I think he might have had a reasonable AFL career as a fair average quality full forward for a poor to mediocre club: occupying space on the forward line and creating opportunities for others, while also kicking the occasional goal. But IMO he was never going to become a star. And surely the point of having a #1 draft pick is to try and recruit an A grade player. Petracca looked highly likely to become such a player at the time, and he has indeed developed into one. More fool us.
If alcohol can damage your short term memory, imagine what damage alcohol could do.
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 370
- Joined: Wed 11 Nov 2020 9:54pm
- Has thanked: 853 times
- Been thanked: 197 times
Re: Saints unlikely to redraft Paddy
And hasn't their recruiting been brilliant!
If alcohol can damage your short term memory, imagine what damage alcohol could do.
- meher baba
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 7196
- Joined: Mon 14 Aug 2006 6:49am
- Location: Tasmania
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 502 times
Re: Saints unlikely to redraft Paddy
Where did you hear that?
"It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into."
- Jonathan Swift
- Jonathan Swift
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 707
- Joined: Thu 06 Dec 2007 3:14pm
- Has thanked: 3 times
- Been thanked: 115 times
Re: Saints unlikely to redraft Paddy
I am not one to defend the decision to use the number 1 draft spot to pick him. However the decision was made after Bulldogs sold the kitchen sink (and everything else) for Tom Boyd.
Paddy lack of fitness wasnt an issue in the under 18s as he just stayed in the forward arc where a player had to be stationed at all times.
Petracca was the Number 1 pick all year. Paddy was tipped at 2 at a pretty soft draft.
Paddy lack of fitness wasnt an issue in the under 18s as he just stayed in the forward arc where a player had to be stationed at all times.
Petracca was the Number 1 pick all year. Paddy was tipped at 2 at a pretty soft draft.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 6072
- Joined: Sat 12 Sep 2015 1:03pm
- Has thanked: 336 times
- Been thanked: 1557 times
Re: Saints unlikely to redraft Paddy
I wasn't big on defence as a batsman, I fleeted between fame and failure with the bat. Not strong on the front foot, but I had a good eye and loved to stay in my crease and dispatch via the pull and the hook. I was hit quite often by your type. Lol
- asiu
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 10313
- Joined: Thu 08 Apr 2010 8:11pm
- Has thanked: 1327 times
- Been thanked: 932 times
Re: Saints unlikely to redraft Paddy
your type woulda luvved dispatching me over mid on
and square leg
but i was too Terry for that malarky
the ones that counterpunched and interfered
with my figures
drove me straight
then when i started getting testy about it
plonk me into or over cow corner
and square leg
but i was too Terry for that malarky
the ones that counterpunched and interfered
with my figures
drove me straight
then when i started getting testy about it
plonk me into or over cow corner
![Image](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_iUpoNBZyaBc/R0zVk-1LCZI/AAAAAAAAAg0/9eeT7D6cnaA/s320/compass-blu-265x220.gif)
.name the ways , thought manipulates the State of Presence away.
.tipara waranta kani nina-tu.
- asiu
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 10313
- Joined: Thu 08 Apr 2010 8:11pm
- Has thanked: 1327 times
- Been thanked: 932 times
Re: Saints unlikely to redraft Paddy
the answer of course
was to serve up a carbon copy
of the delivery that got dispatched
but slower
(and well disguised + timing)
otherwise that went over cow corner as well
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
was to serve up a carbon copy
of the delivery that got dispatched
but slower
(and well disguised + timing)
otherwise that went over cow corner as well
![Very Happy :D](./images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif)
![Image](http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_iUpoNBZyaBc/R0zVk-1LCZI/AAAAAAAAAg0/9eeT7D6cnaA/s320/compass-blu-265x220.gif)
.name the ways , thought manipulates the State of Presence away.
.tipara waranta kani nina-tu.