Buckenara on saints list
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Buckenara on saints list
Now, I really dislike this creep, but thought some might be interested, No A grade players ffs.
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/ ... c7b73d3a02
"Gary Buckenara analyses St Kilda’s list after the 2020 season
Adam Treloar could be on the way out of Collingwood but while he’d be a handy pick-up for the Saints, he shouldn’t be a priority. Gary Buckenara reveals why as he analyses St Kilda’s list.
Gary Buckenara, News Corp Australia Sports Newsroom
Playing finals this year is the first step towards St Kilda winning the second premiership in the club’s history but the hardest part is yet to come.
If we’re being realistic, making the finals is actually the easy target to reach as you build a list you hope can eventually challenge for a flag but taking the next steps is very difficult. It gets harder and harder to progress and stay in the window to challenge because teams improve every year, so clubs must keep improving their list to get it in a position to make top four, then hopefully a preliminary final and then a Grand Final.
The Saints will be a finals contender again next year and if everything goes right, they can challenge for the premiership in 2022 or 2023 but it’s easier said than done.
St Kilda’s list is showing signs of becoming a serious premiership threat and improved consistency this season is a reflection on the growth within the playing group combined with a fresh coaching outlook from Brett Ratten. With 14 B-grade players and five players aged 21 or under with A-B grade potential coming through, including Max King, Josh Battle, Hunter Clark and Nick Coffield who had breakout seasons, there is a good base there. But the biggest issue that continues to hold the Saints back is the lack of top-end talent. St Kilda still doesn’t have any A-graders.
The inclusion of Bradley Hill, Zak Jones, Paddy Ryder, Dougal Howard and Dan Butler has helped to inject more leg speed and ball-winning ability into a team that was bland and one-paced but that’s only the beginning. The Saints still have holes in their list that need filling, including more outside runners and creative halfbacks with elite kicking skills, before they can take that difficult next step in becoming a top-four team.
It’s over to the list management and recruiting staff to identify players from rival clubs who can come in and add star power to help take this team to the next level. Be aggressive, make calls to players like Ben Brown and Adam Treloar because you never know what answer you’ll get unless you ask the question.
LIST NEEDS
St Kilda has a reasonably balanced list but they need another key defender. Jake Carlisle is out of contract – is he the man to play on the big key forwards like Tom Lynch and Tom Hawkins? They’re the types of players St Kilda will need to stop if they’re to go deep in the finals and be a serious premiership contender.
Jack Steele’s emergence this year was impressive but the Saints can’t rely on him to do all the work, they need another big-bodied midfielder in the middle to provide more toughness around stoppages, while they need outside runners and rebounding defenders with pace and elite kicking skills. The return of Jade Gresham next year will be handy.
TRADE TARGETS
St Kilda will land Brad Crouch from Adelaide who will be a fantastic addition and add that extra bit of toughness in the midfield.
The Saints should look at Treloar but only if Collingwood is willing to pay some of his mega contract over the next few years. Treloar can play as an outside runner and has that pace they need but I wouldn’t make him a priority given the Saints only have pick No.15 at their disposal and the Magpies will want more than that. A trade looks very difficult.
Melbourne’s Tom McDonald would be a smart target and while he’s been played as a key forward for the last 3-4 years, he’s best suited down back. That’s not to say he can’t be moved forward at times – players who can play at both ends are very valuable.
Daniel Talia was linked to a trade to Essendon, so if he’s interested in a move out of Adelaide he’s exactly the type of player that can help propel the Saints from a 6-8 side to a potential top-four team. He’s been one of the game’s most reliable defenders but given he’s 29, I think a pick in the 30-40 range would be a fair trade. It would be a very good deal for the Saints.
St Kilda should also ask the question of Michael Hurley given Essendon is in a rebuild/refresh phase.
UNTOUCHABLES
Battle, Butler, Clark, Coffield, Gresham, Hill, Jones, M. King, Steele, Jack Billings, Jarryn Geary, Dougal Howard, Rowan Marshall, Tim Membrey, Ben Paton, Seb Ross, Jack Sinclair and Callum Wilkie.
TRADE BAIT
Carlisle is a player who could be put on the trade table to see if there’s any interest and get a deal done to as a more reliable key defender to play on the big forwards.
Jack Lonie is a handy player but he doesn’t do enough and could benefit from a new environment. I think he’s a player that would be of interest to clubs looking for a clever small forward, such as Carlton.
Luke Dunstan is a high draft pick that barely featured this year and could be used in a trade with Adelaide along with a late draft pick to secure Talia. Dunstan is a South Australian who might appreciate a return home. At 25 years of age, he’s in the right age bracket for the Crows.
RATING THE LIST
A-grade: Nil
B: Billings, Butler, Carlisle, Geary, Gresham, Hill, Howard, Jones, Marshall, Membrey, Ross, Sinclair, Steele, Wilkie
C: Alabakis, Dunstan, Hannebery, Hind, Joyce, Kent, Long, Lonie, Marsh, McKenzie, Parker, Phillips, Roberton, Ryder, Savage, Webster
Developing (with A-B grade potential): Battle, Clark, Coffield, King, Paton
Developing: Byrnes, Bytel, Clavarino, Connolly
What the ratings mean:
A-grade: Elite player on any AFL list
B: Top 10-18 player on most lists
C: An 18-30 player on a list
Developing: Aged 21 or under
CRYSTAL BALL
It was terrific to see St Kilda play finals in 2020 and there are signs that this might be the start of a premiership challenge over the next couple of years, but whether that ultimate goal is achievable will depend on how well the playing group comes together under Ratten and how well the list management and recruiting teams can add to the list over the next two years. There are holes that need to be filled before the Saints can seriously announce themselves and getting an A-grade star is a must. With more maturity and growth from the playing list over the pre-season, I can see the Saints being a finals contender again next year and challenging for a flag in 2022 or 2023."
https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/ ... c7b73d3a02
"Gary Buckenara analyses St Kilda’s list after the 2020 season
Adam Treloar could be on the way out of Collingwood but while he’d be a handy pick-up for the Saints, he shouldn’t be a priority. Gary Buckenara reveals why as he analyses St Kilda’s list.
Gary Buckenara, News Corp Australia Sports Newsroom
Playing finals this year is the first step towards St Kilda winning the second premiership in the club’s history but the hardest part is yet to come.
If we’re being realistic, making the finals is actually the easy target to reach as you build a list you hope can eventually challenge for a flag but taking the next steps is very difficult. It gets harder and harder to progress and stay in the window to challenge because teams improve every year, so clubs must keep improving their list to get it in a position to make top four, then hopefully a preliminary final and then a Grand Final.
The Saints will be a finals contender again next year and if everything goes right, they can challenge for the premiership in 2022 or 2023 but it’s easier said than done.
St Kilda’s list is showing signs of becoming a serious premiership threat and improved consistency this season is a reflection on the growth within the playing group combined with a fresh coaching outlook from Brett Ratten. With 14 B-grade players and five players aged 21 or under with A-B grade potential coming through, including Max King, Josh Battle, Hunter Clark and Nick Coffield who had breakout seasons, there is a good base there. But the biggest issue that continues to hold the Saints back is the lack of top-end talent. St Kilda still doesn’t have any A-graders.
The inclusion of Bradley Hill, Zak Jones, Paddy Ryder, Dougal Howard and Dan Butler has helped to inject more leg speed and ball-winning ability into a team that was bland and one-paced but that’s only the beginning. The Saints still have holes in their list that need filling, including more outside runners and creative halfbacks with elite kicking skills, before they can take that difficult next step in becoming a top-four team.
It’s over to the list management and recruiting staff to identify players from rival clubs who can come in and add star power to help take this team to the next level. Be aggressive, make calls to players like Ben Brown and Adam Treloar because you never know what answer you’ll get unless you ask the question.
LIST NEEDS
St Kilda has a reasonably balanced list but they need another key defender. Jake Carlisle is out of contract – is he the man to play on the big key forwards like Tom Lynch and Tom Hawkins? They’re the types of players St Kilda will need to stop if they’re to go deep in the finals and be a serious premiership contender.
Jack Steele’s emergence this year was impressive but the Saints can’t rely on him to do all the work, they need another big-bodied midfielder in the middle to provide more toughness around stoppages, while they need outside runners and rebounding defenders with pace and elite kicking skills. The return of Jade Gresham next year will be handy.
TRADE TARGETS
St Kilda will land Brad Crouch from Adelaide who will be a fantastic addition and add that extra bit of toughness in the midfield.
The Saints should look at Treloar but only if Collingwood is willing to pay some of his mega contract over the next few years. Treloar can play as an outside runner and has that pace they need but I wouldn’t make him a priority given the Saints only have pick No.15 at their disposal and the Magpies will want more than that. A trade looks very difficult.
Melbourne’s Tom McDonald would be a smart target and while he’s been played as a key forward for the last 3-4 years, he’s best suited down back. That’s not to say he can’t be moved forward at times – players who can play at both ends are very valuable.
Daniel Talia was linked to a trade to Essendon, so if he’s interested in a move out of Adelaide he’s exactly the type of player that can help propel the Saints from a 6-8 side to a potential top-four team. He’s been one of the game’s most reliable defenders but given he’s 29, I think a pick in the 30-40 range would be a fair trade. It would be a very good deal for the Saints.
St Kilda should also ask the question of Michael Hurley given Essendon is in a rebuild/refresh phase.
UNTOUCHABLES
Battle, Butler, Clark, Coffield, Gresham, Hill, Jones, M. King, Steele, Jack Billings, Jarryn Geary, Dougal Howard, Rowan Marshall, Tim Membrey, Ben Paton, Seb Ross, Jack Sinclair and Callum Wilkie.
TRADE BAIT
Carlisle is a player who could be put on the trade table to see if there’s any interest and get a deal done to as a more reliable key defender to play on the big forwards.
Jack Lonie is a handy player but he doesn’t do enough and could benefit from a new environment. I think he’s a player that would be of interest to clubs looking for a clever small forward, such as Carlton.
Luke Dunstan is a high draft pick that barely featured this year and could be used in a trade with Adelaide along with a late draft pick to secure Talia. Dunstan is a South Australian who might appreciate a return home. At 25 years of age, he’s in the right age bracket for the Crows.
RATING THE LIST
A-grade: Nil
B: Billings, Butler, Carlisle, Geary, Gresham, Hill, Howard, Jones, Marshall, Membrey, Ross, Sinclair, Steele, Wilkie
C: Alabakis, Dunstan, Hannebery, Hind, Joyce, Kent, Long, Lonie, Marsh, McKenzie, Parker, Phillips, Roberton, Ryder, Savage, Webster
Developing (with A-B grade potential): Battle, Clark, Coffield, King, Paton
Developing: Byrnes, Bytel, Clavarino, Connolly
What the ratings mean:
A-grade: Elite player on any AFL list
B: Top 10-18 player on most lists
C: An 18-30 player on a list
Developing: Aged 21 or under
CRYSTAL BALL
It was terrific to see St Kilda play finals in 2020 and there are signs that this might be the start of a premiership challenge over the next couple of years, but whether that ultimate goal is achievable will depend on how well the playing group comes together under Ratten and how well the list management and recruiting teams can add to the list over the next two years. There are holes that need to be filled before the Saints can seriously announce themselves and getting an A-grade star is a must. With more maturity and growth from the playing list over the pre-season, I can see the Saints being a finals contender again next year and challenging for a flag in 2022 or 2023."
Last edited by saynta on Wed 28 Oct 2020 2:30pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Buckenara on saints list
I'm no so fussed that he's not categorised any of our list as A graders. Steele is getting there but, one great season doesn't deserve that. In my mind - there's only about 8-10 players in the whole comp who are A-graders. I'm very happy that most of our list are categorised as B graders because you can't afford to carry too many - if any C graders. Ditto with our emerging A/B graders. But ... Gary's been on the glue if he thinks both Alabakis and Ryder are C graders. FFS - Alabakis has never played a single game.
And to top of the stupidity - he suggest Carlisle could be trade bait. How? He hasn't got a contract at present so, how could we trade him?
Fvcking pumpkin.
And to top of the stupidity - he suggest Carlisle could be trade bait. How? He hasn't got a contract at present so, how could we trade him?
Fvcking pumpkin.
Go you red, black & white warriors
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Re: Buckenara on saints list
As I said, a creep and as Saintmatt said a pumpkin
Last edited by saynta on Wed 28 Oct 2020 2:42pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Buckenara on saints list
Normally think he posts obvious rubbish, but his targets of McDonald & Talia are exactly the coverage we need down back.
I think any AA has the right to be considered A grade at that point in time.
For me the challenge will be to improve, can Butler maintain that form?
Can we dispense of Kent, Hind, Lonie etc as IMO as long as these guys are in our best 22 we are not a premiership threat.
I think any AA has the right to be considered A grade at that point in time.
For me the challenge will be to improve, can Butler maintain that form?
Can we dispense of Kent, Hind, Lonie etc as IMO as long as these guys are in our best 22 we are not a premiership threat.
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Re: Buckenara on saints list
Notice that he considers Billing’s and Seb Ross untouchable. For the right deal they’re not untouchable in my book.
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Re: Buckenara on saints list
Alabakis rates a C!
How exactly does that work?!
How exactly does that work?!
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Re: Buckenara on saints list
10th and 11th in this years best and fairest. Yeah, they are untouchable imhfo.
For once I must agree with Bucky
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Re: Buckenara on saints list
Not saying they’re not good players. But if a trade netted us a significant upgrade then would be worth considering.
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Re: Buckenara on saints list
You don't trade out your best players. Destroys the heart and soul of a club.st.byron wrote: ↑Wed 28 Oct 2020 7:52pmNot saying they’re not good players. But if a trade netted us a significant upgrade then would be worth considering.
Don't listen to posters who know sfa.
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Re: Buckenara on saints list
A fit Hannebery in the Elimination showed us he is better than C grade.
Ryder also looked a whole lot better than C grade in the same game.
Ryder also looked a whole lot better than C grade in the same game.
“If you want the rainbow you gotta put up with rain” Dolly Parton
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Re: Buckenara on saints list
Time for St.KFC to be ruthless. I reckon tolerating mediocrity is more damaging than giving up players to get better. Unlikely to happen it seems and that’s fine with me, as if anyone at St.K gives a wazoo about what I think anyway. My thoughts are that they’re good players, but inconsistent and not untouchable if a worthy offer came calling.saynta wrote: ↑Wed 28 Oct 2020 7:59pmYou don't trade out your best players. Destroys the heart and soul of a club.st.byron wrote: ↑Wed 28 Oct 2020 7:52pmNot saying they’re not good players. But if a trade netted us a significant upgrade then would be worth considering.
Don't listen to posters who know sfa.
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Re: Buckenara on saints list
Hannebery needs a full and interrupted preseason under his belt.
Without trying to compare apples with oranges, in 2021, Hannebery will be the age Lenny was in, in 2010. Still a bit of life in him.
Without trying to compare apples with oranges, in 2021, Hannebery will be the age Lenny was in, in 2010. Still a bit of life in him.
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- asiu
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Re: Buckenara on saints list
ruthless
.we’ve gotta get ruthless be ruthless
live n breath ruthless
then execute ruthlessness
in the taking of , What Is Ours.
lol
hows that !
.we’ve gotta get ruthless be ruthless
live n breath ruthless
then execute ruthlessness
in the taking of , What Is Ours.
lol
hows that !
.name the ways , thought manipulates the State of Presence away.
.tipara waranta kani nina-tu.
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Re: Buckenara on saints list
it’ll be so much fun
to actually win the thing
hope my ticker hangs in
to actually win the thing
hope my ticker hangs in
.name the ways , thought manipulates the State of Presence away.
.tipara waranta kani nina-tu.
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Re: Buckenara on saints list
No A-graders? What about Marshall FFS? Steele? Ryder was an A-grader this season.
I guess it depends on your definition of an A-grader.
Anyway, let people think that if they want while we continue to fly under the radar
I guess it depends on your definition of an A-grader.
Anyway, let people think that if they want while we continue to fly under the radar
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Re: Buckenara on saints list
By definition, Steele who was selected AA should be an A grader you would think.
But I wonder if he rated any of the other AA as B graders?
How does a team that finished 6th including winning a final not have at least one A grader?
Puzzling.
But I wonder if he rated any of the other AA as B graders?
How does a team that finished 6th including winning a final not have at least one A grader?
Puzzling.
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Re: Buckenara on saints list
Buckenara like a lot of so called AFL experts have seriously underrated Paddy Ryders season and importance to the sides sucess this year. He was bordering on All Australian form leading into the finals and I would class his season a A grade. If he can squeeze another season or two out of those legs that would be brilliant.
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Re: Buckenara on saints list
Marshall doesn't have the potential to be an A grader?
The rest of Australia can wander mask-free, socialise, eat out, no curfews, no zoning, no police rings of steel, no illogical inconsistent rules.
They can even WATCH LIVE FOOTY!
They can even WATCH LIVE FOOTY!
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Re: Buckenara on saints list
I stopped reading at Buckenera and went and posted this
The Devil makes work for idle hands!!!
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Re: Buckenara on saints list
Let’s assume he really really loves the Saints and he’s watched all our games (highly unlikely ...that he loves us...OR that he watched all 17 of our H&A games) and then let’s assume he does a write up on ALL clubs. Does that mean he’s watched all their games as well?
If he did watch ALL 153 games leading up to finals, when does he find time to do anything else?
Not healthy Gary!
If he did watch ALL 153 games leading up to finals, when does he find time to do anything else?
Not healthy Gary!