To be fair, if we took a random group of 5 year olds and a random group of 75 year olds, I know which group would be more racist one...BarryGrogan wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 4:15pmWell you're clearly missing the point, that's obvious.Joffa Burns wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 3:29pm
Now I'm no mathematician, but going by your own posts if you are 35 years old now and went to a game 30 years ago where you witnessed racial abuse, you don't need to be Terence Tao to work out you were circa 5 years old at that time.
Am I missing something?
I did say "about 30 years ago" to be fair.
Nicky Winmar suing Sam Newman and co-hosts for attempt to revise historical moment
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Re: Nicky Winmar suing Sam Newman and co-hosts for attempt to revise historical moment
All posters are equal, but some posters are more equal than others.
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Re: Nicky Winmar suing Sam Newman and co-hosts for attempt to revise historical moment
My Psychologist daughter would be prod of you Saynta, most people write/say sub-consciously when they actually mean unconsciously.saynta wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 1:55pmWow, 5 year old making those sort of decisions consciously or unconsciously.. just wow.BarryGrogan wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 1:29pmI don't think I was 5.Joffa Burns wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 1:10pm You must have been a very articulate and worldly five year old when you went to that match at Moorabbin 30 years ago to witness such racial abuse and make a bold and defining decision to attend only spasmodically over the next 30 years. Was the abuse leveled at our players by North fans or at Norths Krauker brothers by Saints fans?
But I do recall constant use of 'n word' was directed at Winmar - even when he wasn't involved in the play.
I also remember a kid about my age running off with the footy from behind the goals in the car park after a goal was kicked, and thinking to myself 'oh man, livin' the dream'.
I pretty much stopped going to the footy after the 05 Prelim. It was vile.
The group of Swans fans had a child with them too. It was just appalling. I couldn't get my head around them screaming such foul racial vitriol at Saints players - but then cheering for Goodes and O'Loughlin.
It wasn't a conscious decision to stop going after that night, I just ceased seeing the footy as a good environment to be in. It was an ugly scene that I just didn't want in my life.
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Re: Nicky Winmar suing Sam Newman and co-hosts for attempt to revise historical moment
Joffa Burns wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 5:11pmMy Psychologist daughter would be prod of you Saynta, most people write/say sub-consciously when they actually mean unconsciously.saynta wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 1:55pmWow, 5 year old making those sort of decisions consciously or unconsciously.. just wow.BarryGrogan wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 1:29pmI don't think I was 5.Joffa Burns wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 1:10pm You must have been a very articulate and worldly five year old when you went to that match at Moorabbin 30 years ago to witness such racial abuse and make a bold and defining decision to attend only spasmodically over the next 30 years. Was the abuse leveled at our players by North fans or at Norths Krauker brothers by Saints fans?
But I do recall constant use of 'n word' was directed at Winmar - even when he wasn't involved in the play.
I also remember a kid about my age running off with the footy from behind the goals in the car park after a goal was kicked, and thinking to myself 'oh man, livin' the dream'.
I pretty much stopped going to the footy after the 05 Prelim. It was vile.
The group of Swans fans had a child with them too. It was just appalling. I couldn't get my head around them screaming such foul racial vitriol at Saints players - but then cheering for Goodes and O'Loughlin.
It wasn't a conscious decision to stop going after that night, I just ceased seeing the footy as a good environment to be in. It was an ugly scene that I just didn't want in my life.
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Re: Nicky Winmar suing Sam Newman and co-hosts for attempt to revise historical moment
You accusing me of being a racist, chuck?The_Dud wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 4:36pmTo be fair, if we took a random group of 5 year olds and a random group of 75 year olds, I know which group would be more racist one...BarryGrogan wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 4:15pmWell you're clearly missing the point, that's obvious.Joffa Burns wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 3:29pm
Now I'm no mathematician, but going by your own posts if you are 35 years old now and went to a game 30 years ago where you witnessed racial abuse, you don't need to be Terence Tao to work out you were circa 5 years old at that time.
Am I missing something?
I did say "about 30 years ago" to be fair.
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Re: Nicky Winmar suing Sam Newman and co-hosts for attempt to revise historical moment
Where did I say that?saynta wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 7:33pmYou accusing me of being a racist, chuck?The_Dud wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 4:36pmTo be fair, if we took a random group of 5 year olds and a random group of 75 year olds, I know which group would be more racist one...BarryGrogan wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 4:15pmWell you're clearly missing the point, that's obvious.Joffa Burns wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 3:29pm
Now I'm no mathematician, but going by your own posts if you are 35 years old now and went to a game 30 years ago where you witnessed racial abuse, you don't need to be Terence Tao to work out you were circa 5 years old at that time.
Am I missing something?
I did say "about 30 years ago" to be fair.
All posters are equal, but some posters are more equal than others.
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Re: Nicky Winmar suing Sam Newman and co-hosts for attempt to revise historical moment
Good one chuck.The_Dud wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 7:43pmWhere did I say that?saynta wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 7:33pmYou accusing me of being a racist, chuck?The_Dud wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 4:36pmTo be fair, if we took a random group of 5 year olds and a random group of 75 year olds, I know which group would be more racist one...BarryGrogan wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 4:15pmWell you're clearly missing the point, that's obvious.Joffa Burns wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 3:29pm
Now I'm no mathematician, but going by your own posts if you are 35 years old now and went to a game 30 years ago where you witnessed racial abuse, you don't need to be Terence Tao to work out you were circa 5 years old at that time.
Am I missing something?
I did say "about 30 years ago" to be fair.
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Re: Nicky Winmar suing Sam Newman and co-hosts for attempt to revise historical moment
I'm assuming DV at play, if so that is a very sad predicament for a nearly 7 YO.
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Re: Nicky Winmar suing Sam Newman and co-hosts for attempt to revise historical moment
Do you work the night shift harvesman?Harves Man wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 4:45amI think this is a great post and expresses how you feel really well. I just can't believe that some posters are projecting onto it, such enthusiastic wishfullness that it contained anything racist.Joffa Burns wrote: ↑Sat 27 Jun 2020 4:17pm I was at that game in the outer and do not recall a single racist word yelled at a player.
Maybe at that time I was just accepting that racism was the norm so I don't recall anything specific.
i remember the Nicky gesture and it being reported at the time rightly or wrongly as a showing guts gesture as reported on the podcast. Perhaps they were wrong, perhaps that was a convenient explanation in a racist era, who knows?
Regardless of the intent at the time (guts or skin color) the gesture has transcended the moment and has become a symbol of racism in the sport and has served as a point of non acceptance which is extremely positive.
Nicky and Gilby tore the arses of those s*** bag scum suckers that day and have been immortalized ever since.
I think the dignified response from Nicky would be to suggest the fossils not be given airtime and that the wide majority of people understand the truth behind the gesture. Unfortunately Nickys life has not been as successful or positive a his football career therefore who knows the motivation, I hope it is genuine.
It was just your view, which our posts are supposed to be on a football forum, as I recall. No biggie.
If not you certainly don't get a lot of sleep
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Re: Nicky Winmar suing Sam Newman and co-hosts for attempt to revise historical moment
I have heard plenty of disgusting terms used at Indigenous Australians, but can’t say I have ever heard the ‘N’ word used. Spent a lot of time in the mid-west USA where this word was used commonly and I'm told is still is standard vernacular to describe African Americans.BarryGrogan wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 1:29pm
But I do recall constant use of 'n word' was directed at Winmar - even when he wasn't involved in the play.
The group of Swans fans had a child with them too. It was just appalling. I couldn't get my head around them screaming such foul racial vitriol at Saints players - but then cheering for Goodes and O'Loughlin.
It wasn't a conscious decision to stop going after that night, I just ceased seeing the footy as a good environment to be in. It was an ugly scene that I just didn't want in my life.
Never once heard the term redskin used, but plenty of vitriol toward the Native Americans, especially when money was lost in their casinos.
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Still not sure what point am I missing?BarryGrogan wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 4:15pmWell you're clearly missing the point, that's obvious.Joffa Burns wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 3:29pm
Now I'm no mathematician, but going by your own posts if you are 35 years old now and went to a game 30 years ago where you witnessed racial abuse, you don't need to be Terence Tao to work out you were circa 5 years old at that time.
Am I missing something?
I did say "about 30 years ago" to be fair.
If it’s the point or vagrancies of an extremist poster on a football forum who seems to sit, stand or congregate near the vilest opposition racist supporters every-time he/she attends a St Kilda game since he/she was 5 years old though has only been to a handful of games in the last 30 years, I’m certainly across it.
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Re: Nicky Winmar suing Sam Newman and co-hosts for attempt to revise historical moment
Hi Joffa, Assumptions are a funny thing. I am not in Oz. All the BestJoffa Burns wrote: ↑Tue 30 Jun 2020 10:12amDo you work the night shift harvesman?Harves Man wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 4:45amI think this is a great post and expresses how you feel really well. I just can't believe that some posters are projecting onto it, such enthusiastic wishfullness that it contained anything racist.Joffa Burns wrote: ↑Sat 27 Jun 2020 4:17pm I was at that game in the outer and do not recall a single racist word yelled at a player.
Maybe at that time I was just accepting that racism was the norm so I don't recall anything specific.
i remember the Nicky gesture and it being reported at the time rightly or wrongly as a showing guts gesture as reported on the podcast. Perhaps they were wrong, perhaps that was a convenient explanation in a racist era, who knows?
Regardless of the intent at the time (guts or skin color) the gesture has transcended the moment and has become a symbol of racism in the sport and has served as a point of non acceptance which is extremely positive.
Nicky and Gilby tore the arses of those s*** bag scum suckers that day and have been immortalized ever since.
I think the dignified response from Nicky would be to suggest the fossils not be given airtime and that the wide majority of people understand the truth behind the gesture. Unfortunately Nickys life has not been as successful or positive a his football career therefore who knows the motivation, I hope it is genuine.
It was just your view, which our posts are supposed to be on a football forum, as I recall. No biggie.
If not you certainly don't get a lot of sleep![]()
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Re: Nicky Winmar suing Sam Newman and co-hosts for attempt to revise historical moment
Fair enough, Joffa, but is there really a difference between saying "unconsciously" and "on a sub-conscious level" ? As I understand it, the Humanistic school of psychological thought (Carl Rogers, Fritz Perls, et al) tends to say unconsciously, whereas the Psychodynamic school of thought (the most prominent being Freud and Carl Jung), tends to use the term sub-conscious?Joffa Burns wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 5:11pmMy Psychologist daughter would be prod of you Saynta, most people write/say sub-consciously when they actually mean unconsciously.saynta wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 1:55pmWow, 5 year old making those sort of decisions consciously or unconsciously.. just wow.BarryGrogan wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 1:29pmI don't think I was 5.Joffa Burns wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 1:10pm You must have been a very articulate and worldly five year old when you went to that match at Moorabbin 30 years ago to witness such racial abuse and make a bold and defining decision to attend only spasmodically over the next 30 years. Was the abuse leveled at our players by North fans or at Norths Krauker brothers by Saints fans?
But I do recall constant use of 'n word' was directed at Winmar - even when he wasn't involved in the play.
I also remember a kid about my age running off with the footy from behind the goals in the car park after a goal was kicked, and thinking to myself 'oh man, livin' the dream'.
I pretty much stopped going to the footy after the 05 Prelim. It was vile.
The group of Swans fans had a child with them too. It was just appalling. I couldn't get my head around them screaming such foul racial vitriol at Saints players - but then cheering for Goodes and O'Loughlin.
It wasn't a conscious decision to stop going after that night, I just ceased seeing the footy as a good environment to be in. It was an ugly scene that I just didn't want in my life.
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Re: Nicky Winmar suing Sam Newman and co-hosts for attempt to revise historical moment
??Joffa Burns wrote: ↑Tue 30 Jun 2020 10:34am
.... has only been to a handful of games in the last 30 years.....
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Re: Nicky Winmar suing Sam Newman and co-hosts for attempt to revise historical moment
f***. Debating Freud, Jung and Rogers on a footy forum. Who says you don't learn anything useful following footy.Harves Man wrote: ↑Tue 30 Jun 2020 2:22pmFair enough, Joffa, but is there really a difference between saying "unconsciously" and "on a sub-conscious level" ? As I understand it, the Humanistic school of psychological thought (Carl Rogers, Fritz Perls, et al) tends to say unconsciously, whereas the Psychodynamic school of thought (the most prominent being Freud and Carl Jung), tends to use the term sub-conscious?Joffa Burns wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 5:11pmMy Psychologist daughter would be prod of you Saynta, most people write/say sub-consciously when they actually mean unconsciously.saynta wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 1:55pmWow, 5 year old making those sort of decisions consciously or unconsciously.. just wow.BarryGrogan wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 1:29pmI don't think I was 5.Joffa Burns wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 1:10pm You must have been a very articulate and worldly five year old when you went to that match at Moorabbin 30 years ago to witness such racial abuse and make a bold and defining decision to attend only spasmodically over the next 30 years. Was the abuse leveled at our players by North fans or at Norths Krauker brothers by Saints fans?
But I do recall constant use of 'n word' was directed at Winmar - even when he wasn't involved in the play.
I also remember a kid about my age running off with the footy from behind the goals in the car park after a goal was kicked, and thinking to myself 'oh man, livin' the dream'.
I pretty much stopped going to the footy after the 05 Prelim. It was vile.
The group of Swans fans had a child with them too. It was just appalling. I couldn't get my head around them screaming such foul racial vitriol at Saints players - but then cheering for Goodes and O'Loughlin.
It wasn't a conscious decision to stop going after that night, I just ceased seeing the footy as a good environment to be in. It was an ugly scene that I just didn't want in my life.
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Re: Nicky Winmar suing Sam Newman and co-hosts for attempt to revise historical moment
mmmmmm
I'm assuming DV at play, if so that is a very sad predicament for a nearly 7 YO.
way sadder , that a 7 year old (first born)
thought it was his responsibility to sort
then growing up
thinking he was a coward
for not taking action A
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Re: Nicky Winmar suing Sam Newman and co-hosts for attempt to revise historical moment
You have now gone above my pay scale Harvesman, I'll need to refer you to my daughterHarves Man wrote: ↑Tue 30 Jun 2020 2:22pmFair enough, Joffa, but is there really a difference between saying "unconsciously" and "on a sub-conscious level" ? As I understand it, the Humanistic school of psychological thought (Carl Rogers, Fritz Perls, et al) tends to say unconsciously, whereas the Psychodynamic school of thought (the most prominent being Freud and Carl Jung), tends to use the term sub-conscious?Joffa Burns wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 5:11pmMy Psychologist daughter would be prod of you Saynta, most people write/say sub-consciously when they actually mean unconsciously.saynta wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 1:55pmWow, 5 year old making those sort of decisions consciously or unconsciously.. just wow.BarryGrogan wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 1:29pmI don't think I was 5.Joffa Burns wrote: ↑Mon 29 Jun 2020 1:10pm You must have been a very articulate and worldly five year old when you went to that match at Moorabbin 30 years ago to witness such racial abuse and make a bold and defining decision to attend only spasmodically over the next 30 years. Was the abuse leveled at our players by North fans or at Norths Krauker brothers by Saints fans?
But I do recall constant use of 'n word' was directed at Winmar - even when he wasn't involved in the play.
I also remember a kid about my age running off with the footy from behind the goals in the car park after a goal was kicked, and thinking to myself 'oh man, livin' the dream'.
I pretty much stopped going to the footy after the 05 Prelim. It was vile.
The group of Swans fans had a child with them too. It was just appalling. I couldn't get my head around them screaming such foul racial vitriol at Saints players - but then cheering for Goodes and O'Loughlin.
It wasn't a conscious decision to stop going after that night, I just ceased seeing the footy as a good environment to be in. It was an ugly scene that I just didn't want in my life.
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Re: Nicky Winmar suing Sam Newman and co-hosts for attempt to revise historical moment
Yes very sad indeed when you are not emotionally or physically able top process and deal with that.
The coward is not the 7 year old.
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Re: Nicky Winmar suing Sam Newman and co-hosts for attempt to revise historical moment
Short term memory issues at 35, feeling sorry for you Barry Goneagain.BarryGrogan wrote: ↑Tue 30 Jun 2020 2:48pm??Joffa Burns wrote: ↑Tue 30 Jun 2020 10:34am
.... has only been to a handful of games in the last 30 years.....
BarryGrogan wrote: ↑Fri 26 Jun 2020 11:53pm On a side note, FWIW, the worst racial abuse I've ever witnessed was at from North supporters at Moorabbin about 30 years ago - and even worse yet at the 05 Prelim from Swans supporters.
I actually reckon I've only been to about 4 or 5 games of footy since that night. Awful. Grotesque.
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Re: Nicky Winmar suing Sam Newman and co-hosts for attempt to revise historical moment
Was the 05 Prelim 30 years ago?Joffa Burns wrote: ↑Tue 30 Jun 2020 3:48pmShort term memory issues at 35, feeling sorry for you Barry Goneagain.BarryGrogan wrote: ↑Tue 30 Jun 2020 2:48pm??Joffa Burns wrote: ↑Tue 30 Jun 2020 10:34am
.... has only been to a handful of games in the last 30 years.....
BarryGrogan wrote: ↑Fri 26 Jun 2020 11:53pm On a side note, FWIW, the worst racial abuse I've ever witnessed was at from North supporters at Moorabbin about 30 years ago - and even worse yet at the 05 Prelim from Swans supporters.
I actually reckon I've only been to about 4 or 5 games of footy since that night. Awful. Grotesque.
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Re: Nicky Winmar suing Sam Newman and co-hosts for attempt to revise historical moment
The North game was and you were about 5 at the time.BarryGrogan wrote: ↑Tue 30 Jun 2020 3:49pmWas the 05 Prelim 30 years ago?Joffa Burns wrote: ↑Tue 30 Jun 2020 3:48pmShort term memory issues at 35, feeling sorry for you Barry Goneagain.BarryGrogan wrote: ↑Tue 30 Jun 2020 2:48pm??Joffa Burns wrote: ↑Tue 30 Jun 2020 10:34am
.... has only been to a handful of games in the last 30 years.....
BarryGrogan wrote: ↑Fri 26 Jun 2020 11:53pm On a side note, FWIW, the worst racial abuse I've ever witnessed was at from North supporters at Moorabbin about 30 years ago - and even worse yet at the 05 Prelim from Swans supporters.
I actually reckon I've only been to about 4 or 5 games of footy since that night. Awful. Grotesque.
Still not sure what point I'm missing?
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Re: Nicky Winmar suing Sam Newman and co-hosts for attempt to revise historical moment
Didn't know they played night games at Moorabbin?Joffa Burns wrote: ↑Tue 30 Jun 2020 3:52pm
BarryGrogan wrote: ↑Fri 26 Jun 2020 11:53pm
I actually reckon I've only been to about 4 or 5 games of footy since that night. Awful. Grotesque.
The North game was and you were about 5 at the time.
Still not sure what point I'm missing?
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Re: Nicky Winmar suing Sam Newman and co-hosts for attempt to revise historical moment
mmmmmm
eeeek ... this is tear up material to share
an absolute nightmare to process actually
... took 20 years
(to even feel like i was actually getting somewhere)
my contemptuousness
(for those ‘other’ adults in our neighbourhood who failed to act) ... [and MUST have known there was serious sh1t going down]
is still a work in progress
i understand they were scared
... fully got that bit.
eeeek ... this is tear up material to share
an absolute nightmare to process actually
... took 20 years
(to even feel like i was actually getting somewhere)
my contemptuousness
(for those ‘other’ adults in our neighbourhood who failed to act) ... [and MUST have known there was serious sh1t going down]
is still a work in progress
i understand they were scared
... fully got that bit.
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Re: Nicky Winmar suing Sam Newman and co-hosts for attempt to revise historical moment
So him being on the front page of the paper in a George Floyd tee shirt was his idea? , maybe it was but I somehow doubt it . As for my nick name on here I picked that because he was my favourite player and not for the colour of his skin but because he was a bloody good player and I loved watching him playterry smith rules wrote: ↑Sun 28 Jun 2020 9:47amHow dare you call yourself after a great indigenous player and then come on here questioning Nicky’s truth and motives.
Maybe as this is a footy forum we should remember judge players on they skills and not on anything else
I wonder how many of you have listen too the podcast because what I heard was 3 people taking about something that happened 27yrs ago and they gave there opinons on how they saw what happened that day now right or wrong its a opinon and everyone in this Country is free too give one.
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Re: Nicky Winmar suing Sam Newman and co-hosts for attempt to revise historical moment
Speech is only free if the opinions you express fully conform to the SJWs interpretations.
Any slight deviation or questioning will see you called a racist, homophobe or other derogatory terms used by them to herd the sheep into the appropriate pens!
Any slight deviation or questioning will see you called a racist, homophobe or other derogatory terms used by them to herd the sheep into the appropriate pens!
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Re: Nicky Winmar suing Sam Newman and co-hosts for attempt to revise historical moment
Ironically the only thing the wanksrs in that Podcast cared about was how much they could leverage off Nicky's legacy. Does that disturb you? Or are you only troubled by Nicky leveraging off his own legacy?mcadam05 wrote: ↑Tue 30 Jun 2020 6:58pmSo him being on the front page of the paper in a George Floyd tee shirt was his idea? , maybe it was but I somehow doubt it . As for my nick name on here I picked that because he was my favourite player and not for the colour of his skin but because he was a bloody good player and I loved watching him playterry smith rules wrote: ↑Sun 28 Jun 2020 9:47amHow dare you call yourself after a great indigenous player and then come on here questioning Nicky’s truth and motives.
Maybe as this is a footy forum we should remember judge players on they skills and not on anything else
I wonder how many of you have listen too the podcast because what I heard was 3 people taking about something that happened 27yrs ago and they gave there opinons on how they saw what happened that day now right or wrong its a opinon and everyone in this Country is free too give one.
And as you rightly point out, everyone in this country is free to give thier opinion and my opinion is you have missed an opportunity to stand up to racism.
And it wasn't just plain ole rasism, it was cash for racism.
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Re: Nicky Winmar suing Sam Newman and co-hosts for attempt to revise historical moment
Nicky is the only one who knows what he was feeling that day.mcadam05 wrote: ↑Tue 30 Jun 2020 6:58pmSo him being on the front page of the paper in a George Floyd tee shirt was his idea? , maybe it was but I somehow doubt it . As for my nick name on here I picked that because he was my favourite player and not for the colour of his skin but because he was a bloody good player and I loved watching him playterry smith rules wrote: ↑Sun 28 Jun 2020 9:47amHow dare you call yourself after a great indigenous player and then come on here questioning Nicky’s truth and motives.
Maybe as this is a footy forum we should remember judge players on they skills and not on anything else
I wonder how many of you have listen too the podcast because what I heard was 3 people taking about something that happened 27yrs ago and they gave there opinons on how they saw what happened that day now right or wrong its a opinon and everyone in this Country is free too give one.
I am guessing Nicky or his lawyers asked for a public retraction hence the legal action when they would not give it.
The wankers might want to be sued to create publicity for their podcast. Or maybe they are racist.
The dignified response would have been Scott to admit being wrong so that everyone can move on.