How we are placed compared to the start of 2017

[cwrcyn]

Over 20 players have left since the 2017 season

Here is a list of the players who have moved on and who could be considered their replacements since. Note that players drafted at the end of 2016 had not played by the start of 2017, so these have been part of the replacement list (For example, Rowan Marshall)

Hickey.....Marshall
Steven.....Hill
Acres....Clark
Montagna...Jones
Riewoldt....King
Newnes.....Hind
longer.....Ryder
Gilbert....Coffield
Minchington...Long
Pierce....Abbott
Armitage...Hannebery
Goddard...Clavarino
Dempster...Wilkie
Stevens...Bytel
Bruce...Battle
White...Paton
McCartin...Marsh
Wright...Kent
Rice....Phillips
Weller...Butler
Holmes...Bell
Connellan...Parker
O'Kearney...Byrnes
Coughlan...Austin

Have we improved that lot over that past two seasons?

[Sanctorum]

You can't make such a comparison between the players St Kilda had at the end of 2016 and those that will be lining up in 2020. Fact is that 2017, 2018 and 2019 were seasons where the team had lost the only 2 elite players on the list and barely treaded water, and slipped down the ladder.

Next season will be a very different story because of the major overhaul of both the off-field and on-field personnel in the past 12 months, which most certainly will see the team climb back up the ladder and contend for the finals.

In 2017-2019 St Kilda had not one recognised elite player in the team, given that Hannebery only played a handful of games in the latter part of the season. in 2020 St Kilda will field a completely new-look team, with at least 4 seasoned players that are (or in the case of Ryder were) elite, and have come from clubs that have experienced a lot of success. These players will help to raise the standard of training and performance and with the emphasis on skills under Brett Ratten's guidance should see the team play a far more attacking brand of football and win a lot more games.

[Nick_BlueNRG]

Over 20 players have left since the 2017 season

Here is a list of the players who have moved on and who could be considered their replacements since. Note that players drafted at the end of 2016 had not played by the start of 2017, so these have been part of the replacement list (For example, Rowan Marshall)

Hickey.....Marshall
Steven.....Hill
Acres....Clark
Montagna...Jones
Riewoldt....King
Newnes.....Hind
longer.....Ryder
Gilbert....Coffield
Minchington...Long
Pierce....Abbott
Armitage...Hannebery
Goddard...Clavarino
Dempster...Wilkie
Stevens...Bytel
Bruce...Battle
White...Paton
McCartin...Marsh
Wright...Kent
Rice....Phillips
Weller...Butler
Holmes...Bell
Connellan...Parker
O'Kearney...Byrnes
Coughlan...Austin

Have we improved that lot over that past two seasons?

We have not improved. In fact I believe we have gone backwards thanks to Gags and his quick fix to sure up his job.

[cwrcyn]

Rucks have clearly improved
Midfield has improved a bit (certainly more depth)
Forward line is not as good, but could improve if King and Battle play forward and develop quickly
Backline is roughly on par or marginally better if Roberton returns

In my view we're better placed. Also, we have more players with leg speed and more players with decent foot skills

[Goose is king]

And the majority of the players not on those two lists have improved

[B.M]

How many games did we win in 2017?

[cwrcyn]

Eleven

[CURLY]

Over 20 players have left since the 2017 season

Here is a list of the players who have moved on and who could be considered their replacements since. Note that players drafted at the end of 2016 had not played by the start of 2017, so these have been part of the replacement list (For example, Rowan Marshall)

Hickey.....Marshall
Steven.....Hill
Acres....Clark
Montagna...Jones
Riewoldt....King
Newnes.....Hind
longer.....Ryder
Gilbert....Coffield
Minchington...Long
Pierce....Abbott
Armitage...Hannebery
Goddard...Clavarino
Dempster...Wilkie
Stevens...Bytel
Bruce...Battle
White...Paton
McCartin...Marsh
Wright...Kent
Rice....Phillips
Weller...Butler
Holmes...Bell
Connellan...Parker
O'Kearney...Byrnes
Coughlan...Austin

Have we improved that lot over that past two seasons?

We have not improved. In fact I believe we have gone backwards thanks to Gags and his quick fix to sure up his job.

Troll

[samuraisaint]

Over 20 players have left since the 2017 season

Here is a list of the players who have moved on and who could be considered their replacements since. Note that players drafted at the end of 2016 had not played by the start of 2017, so these have been part of the replacement list (For example, Rowan Marshall)

Hickey.....Marshall
Steven.....Hill
Acres....Clark
Montagna...Jones
Riewoldt....King
Newnes.....Hind
longer.....Ryder
Gilbert....Coffield
Minchington...Long
Pierce....Abbott
Armitage...Hannebery
Goddard...Clavarino
Dempster...Wilkie
Stevens...Bytel
Bruce...Battle
White...Paton
McCartin...Marsh
Wright...Kent
Rice....Phillips
Weller...Butler
Holmes...Bell
Connellan...Parker
O'Kearney...Byrnes
Coughlan...Austin

Have we improved that lot over that past two seasons?

Great OP. Based on what I would perceive to be raw talent it certainly wouldn't appear to be the case. Still a lot of talent in that 2017 team and we finished mid table - 11th - that season.
Certainly, we are still in a major rebuild, particularly so if we go a little further back to the team we had in 2013 - and we see that in six seasons we have only Geary still at the club.
FWIW I think our team looks a lot better now than it did in '17 and we should be able to match our wins (11) and ladder position (11th) of that season. We are still one elite midfielder away from finals action, and we still lack a forward line with a real scoring payload. However, given time to develop we may have those things at the club already but are still in utero.
But there are still question marks; will the value-adding of such personnel as Max, Dylan, Logan, Bytel, Clavarino and Dan even play a senior match in 2019?
As of December, none of us can really say for sure, and this is the biggest question mark of our team going into the 2019 season.
But I''m bullish and really looking forward to 2019 as I feel a real buzz around the club this pre-season.

[cwrcyn]

I forgot Howard and Langlands

[B.M]

Do we think we will win 12 games this season?

[Sanctorum]

We have not improved. In fact I believe we have gone backwards thanks to Gags and his quick fix to sure up his job.

Yeez Nick_BlueNRG, you're a Sad Sack, you're constantly posting negative comments about the New Saints, do you really believe that the team we had at the end of last season was going to get the club back in contention, if so argue your case for the exclusion of Hill, Ryder, Jones, Butler and Howard, what would you have done???

Just sing along with Bobby McFerrin mate:

[lewdogs]

The obvious thing lacking is goalkickers. Riewoldt is irreplaceable, but it will be interesting to see if we can find some targets. King, Battle if he goes there. We might play a more mobile forward line with Membrey, Parker, King surrounded by Butler, Kent and Lonie. Who knows.

The other area is midfield. We need a few to step up there especially with Steven gone. Hannebery playing regularly would be huge. If Clark could step up, or Gresh become a regular mid, that would also go a long way. I think on paper we look the same-ish now to 2017, but with potential to improve if these guys step up.

Our defence is really solid now.

[Nick_BlueNRG]

Our defence is close to the best in the comp.

Carlisle, Battle, Austin, Howard, Geary, Savage, Coffield, Clark, *Roberton.

[cwrcyn]

2017 were the last seasons for Riewoldt and Montagna with lower output compared to previous years. Dempster didn't play after the preseason. Hickey and Longer were either injured of ineffectual. Long, Battle, and Phillips were babies with no senior experience. Freeman watched from the sidelines, as did Armitage for most of the season. The more I look at it, the more I see that we are better placed for 2020

[saintspremiers]

Over 20 players have left since the 2017 season

Here is a list of the players who have moved on and who could be considered their replacements since. Note that players drafted at the end of 2016 had not played by the start of 2017, so these have been part of the replacement list (For example, Rowan Marshall)

Hickey.....Marshall
Steven.....Hill
Acres....Clark
Montagna...Jones
Riewoldt....King
Newnes.....Hind
longer.....Ryder
Gilbert....Coffield
Minchington...Long
Pierce....Abbott
Armitage...Hannebery
Goddard...Clavarino
Dempster...Wilkie
Stevens...Bytel
Bruce...Battle
White...Paton
McCartin...Marsh
Wright...Kent
Rice....Phillips
Weller...Butler
Holmes...Bell
Connellan...Parker
O'Kearney...Byrnes
Coughlan...Austin

Have we improved that lot over that past two seasons?

We have not improved. In fact I believe we have gone backwards thanks to Gags and his quick fix to sure up his job.

You have gone backwards also.

I didn’t think when you back into a brick wall it was passable, but you’ve proved me wrong.

[samuraisaint]

Do we think we will win 12 games this season?

I think we certainly can - BUT, we will need to get more games in 2020 out of Hannebury, Roberton, Carlisle, King and Austin, not that that would be hard. And for Hill, Jones, Howard, Ryder and Butler to come in and have an immediate impact. Improvement from the likes of Billings, Gresham, Marshall, Battle and Clark would just about seal it.
12 wins would be the ceiling for the list in it's current form I would think.

[fugazi]

Who kicks the goals?
I still don't understand the Bruce trade .