Jack Newnes

[saintsRrising]

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/tom-pa ... e109affe6d

Though Blues are stilling going to get Martin.

[Secret Kiel]

The view Jack was a coach favourite and was shown limitless faith is a misguided one in my opinion. Yes he tapered in his last couple of years with comparison to his peak in 2016-17, it happens, but the claim that he was somehow gifted games fails to reflect on the list of players available for selection each week throughout the 2018-19 seasons. Simply who was pushing Jack out of the team when most weeks the only available players where either not like-for-like or just weren't AFL ready and where many of the games over that period where Jack was used to fill gaps. At his best many were suggesting he was Captain material. It's just astounding he has attracted such vitriol by a very small supporter type, I suspect it is partly due to the vitriol packaged up for Richo by the same supporter type and not really breaking down the situation objectively.

His two greatest legacies as a footballer are that he played 120+ consecutive games of the probably the most underwhelming football in the history of the game, and that someone once bothered to post a post, as long as the one above, in his defence.

Bravo Jack!

Go the Northern Blues!!!

I'm not sure my post is in his defence, and in defence of what? Maybe re-read it. Can you answer the question, who was pushing Jack Newnes out during this so-called time of coach favouritism and blind faith? If you've been following the club rebuild closely since 2014 you'll know the cupboard was fairly bare, even more so through the injury plagued years of 2018-19. So who was pushing Jack out during this time?

[Life Long Saint]

https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/tom-pa ... e109affe6d

Though Blues are stilling going to get Martin.

If we delist him then they can have them both.

[skeptic]

The view Jack was a coach favourite and was shown limitless faith is a misguided one in my opinion. Yes he tapered in his last couple of years with comparison to his peak in 2016-17, it happens, but the claim that he was somehow gifted games fails to reflect on the list of players available for selection each week throughout the 2018-19 seasons. Simply who was pushing Jack out of the team when most weeks the only available players where either not like-for-like or just weren't AFL ready and where many of the games over that period where Jack was used to fill gaps. At his best many were suggesting he was Captain material. It's just astounding he has attracted such vitriol by a very small supporter type, I suspect it is partly due to the vitriol packaged up for Richo by the same supporter type and not really breaking down the situation objectively.

His two greatest legacies as a footballer are that he played 120+ consecutive games of the probably the most underwhelming football in the history of the game, and that someone once bothered to post a post, as long as the one above, in his defence.

Bravo Jack!

Go the Northern Blues!!!

I'm not sure my post is in his defence, and in defence of what? Maybe re-read it. Can you answer the question, who was pushing Jack Newnes out during this so-called time of coach favouritism and blind faith? If you've been following the club rebuild closely since 2014 you'll know the cupboard was fairly bare, even more so through the injury plagued years of 2018-19. So who was pushing Jack out during this time?

To answer your question

I’d have liked to have seen White play ahead of him in defence
Acres play ahead of him in the middle with someone else as a forward
Any of Hind, Long and Lonie play ahead of him more as a forward

End of the day, saying limitless faith is somewhat ghoulish overkill but the point remains valid... he had sustained patches of really bad - mediocre form.
Multiple games where he displayed horrendous acts e.g not putting his head over ball, committing really bad skill errors, not going hard enough at the contest. Generally it’s no big deal because everybody has those moments.

The fact that he wasn’t dropped at all however is an * moment. It’s not a big deal to be dropped at all... go back, on a few things, earn your way back.

In Newnes case, it appeared to be a big deal for one reason or another

[saynta]

Every footy fan forum has to have a whipping boy. Unfortunately for Jack he was ours.

No one was crying out to replace him ffs. That situation only existed in the minds of some but thankfully not the Sainters coaches.

[B.M]

Newnes was dropped this season

Most of the last two seasons he’s played as a defensive Forward.

Weller also played that role

It’s pretty selfless

[Ghost Like]

Every footy fan forum has to have a whipping boy. Unfortunately for Jack he was ours.

No one was crying out to replace him ffs. That situation only existed in the minds of some but thankfully not the Sainters coaches.

And no one's been crying out to sign him.

I think Ratts had him playing the defensive forward role with one exceptional game on JJ. I'm not sure Richo really made him that accountable, which in his record run of games probably & rightfully annoyed many.

[Secret Kiel]

The view Jack was a coach favourite and was shown limitless faith is a misguided one in my opinion. Yes he tapered in his last couple of years with comparison to his peak in 2016-17, it happens, but the claim that he was somehow gifted games fails to reflect on the list of players available for selection each week throughout the 2018-19 seasons. Simply who was pushing Jack out of the team when most weeks the only available players where either not like-for-like or just weren't AFL ready and where many of the games over that period where Jack was used to fill gaps. At his best many were suggesting he was Captain material. It's just astounding he has attracted such vitriol by a very small supporter type, I suspect it is partly due to the vitriol packaged up for Richo by the same supporter type and not really breaking down the situation objectively.

His two greatest legacies as a footballer are that he played 120+ consecutive games of the probably the most underwhelming football in the history of the game, and that someone once bothered to post a post, as long as the one above, in his defence.

Bravo Jack!

Go the Northern Blues!!!

I'm not sure my post is in his defence, and in defence of what? Maybe re-read it. Can you answer the question, who was pushing Jack Newnes out during this so-called time of coach favouritism and blind faith? If you've been following the club rebuild closely since 2014 you'll know the cupboard was fairly bare, even more so through the injury plagued years of 2018-19. So who was pushing Jack out during this time?

To answer your question

I’d have liked to have seen White play ahead of him in defence
Acres play ahead of him in the middle with someone else as a forward
Any of Hind, Long and Lonie play ahead of him more as a forward

White was delisted for a reason and in hindsight was never going to make it in the AFL system so no chance of pushing Newnes out.
Acres was already in the same team most weeks so how is that pushing him out.
Newnes really is around Members height and has similar strengths in that he's a really good contested mark especially overhead and jumps at the ball like Members and is reasonably accurate set shot at goal but structurally not sure why you would put Newnes full time in the same forward line as Members, plus he was needed in other areas of the ground more most times.
Having said that and ironically I reckon being a mid sized forward could have been worth experimenting with more.
Not even sure why Hind and Lonie are mentioned as options, both totally different players and are small forwards.
The fact of the matter we have been so bereft of AFL ready players most weeks for the past few seasons and Newnes got a game most weeks because our list had limited options in terms of AFL ready players. And it was no coincidence that our list has been screaming out for midfielders in Jack Newnes time, so yeah, he was the best from a really scarce selection pool but you have to put men out on the field and not just throw lambs to the wolves like fans scream for each Thursday. No depth in his position for a long time.
So was Just was never a coaches favourite or the benefit of limitless faith, so the vitriol he's experiences is misguided fan nonsense.

[skeptic]

The view Jack was a coach favourite and was shown limitless faith is a misguided one in my opinion. Yes he tapered in his last couple of years with comparison to his peak in 2016-17, it happens, but the claim that he was somehow gifted games fails to reflect on the list of players available for selection each week throughout the 2018-19 seasons. Simply who was pushing Jack out of the team when most weeks the only available players where either not like-for-like or just weren't AFL ready and where many of the games over that period where Jack was used to fill gaps. At his best many were suggesting he was Captain material. It's just astounding he has attracted such vitriol by a very small supporter type, I suspect it is partly due to the vitriol packaged up for Richo by the same supporter type and not really breaking down the situation objectively.

His two greatest legacies as a footballer are that he played 120+ consecutive games of the probably the most underwhelming football in the history of the game, and that someone once bothered to post a post, as long as the one above, in his defence.

Bravo Jack!

Go the Northern Blues!!!

I'm not sure my post is in his defence, and in defence of what? Maybe re-read it. Can you answer the question, who was pushing Jack Newnes out during this so-called time of coach favouritism and blind faith? If you've been following the club rebuild closely since 2014 you'll know the cupboard was fairly bare, even more so through the injury plagued years of 2018-19. So who was pushing Jack out during this time?

To answer your question

I’d have liked to have seen White play ahead of him in defence
Acres play ahead of him in the middle with someone else as a forward
Any of Hind, Long and Lonie play ahead of him more as a forward

White was delisted for a reason and in hindsight was never going to make it in the AFL system so no chance of pushing Newnes out.
Acres was already in the same team most weeks so how is that pushing him out.
Newnes really is around Members height and has similar strengths in that he's a really good contested mark especially overhead and jumps at the ball like Members and is reasonably accurate set shot at goal but structurally not sure why you would put Newnes full time in the same forward line as Members, plus he was needed in other areas of the ground more most times.
Having said that and ironically I reckon being a mid sized forward could have been worth experimenting with more.
Not even sure why Hind and Lonie are mentioned as options, both totally different players and are small forwards.
The fact of the matter we have been so bereft of AFL ready players most weeks for the past few seasons and Newnes got a game most weeks because our list had limited options in terms of AFL ready players. And it was no coincidence that our list has been screaming out for midfielders in Jack Newnes time, so yeah, he was the best from a really scarce selection pool but you have to put men out on the field and not just throw lambs to the wolves like fans scream for each Thursday. No depth in his position for a long time.
So was Just was never a coaches favourite or the benefit of limitless faith, so the vitriol he's experiences is misguided fan nonsense.

The point with Acres is that he should have have taken Newnes direct role and others could have played the role that Acres was so often locked into. It’s an example of how flexibility breeds options

Regardless, my overall point is that we haven’t gained anything by ‘needing’ to play Newnes when his form at times didn’t warrant it.
Certainly not in performance or even in regards to his own development that now sees him cut.

Certainly don’t agree he was he best of a bad bunch... others didn’t get the opportunity to start off mediocre and potentially improve like Newnes. That argument to me is a complete cop out to justify bad decision making... right up there with picking Dempster in a FP in the 09 GF. Who else could have played as a defensive forward they said...how about we didn’t need one

The fact that he played almost every game for 5 years and is cut whilst about to enter his prime says it all but alas I guess we have to agree to disagree here.

[Moods]

Jack Newnes was symptomatic of most things that were wrong with our club. It was like he was left in the team to prove that we had the right age demographic and experience, when in actual fact his past 2 years were not AFL standard and he should have barely played. Arguing who would have replaced him is futile in my view. Any number of players could have been tried in his place. Who knows who would have stuck their hand up? How many young guys are battling away in the reserves hoping to not just get a game but an opportunity (which means poss 5 games in a row to prove same)

[saynta]

The view Jack was a coach favourite and was shown limitless faith is a misguided one in my opinion. Yes he tapered in his last couple of years with comparison to his peak in 2016-17, it happens, but the claim that he was somehow gifted games fails to reflect on the list of players available for selection each week throughout the 2018-19 seasons. Simply who was pushing Jack out of the team when most weeks the only available players where either not like-for-like or just weren't AFL ready and where many of the games over that period where Jack was used to fill gaps. At his best many were suggesting he was Captain material. It's just astounding he has attracted such vitriol by a very small supporter type, I suspect it is partly due to the vitriol packaged up for Richo by the same supporter type and not really breaking down the situation objectively.

His two greatest legacies as a footballer are that he played 120+ consecutive games of the probably the most underwhelming football in the history of the game, and that someone once bothered to post a post, as long as the one above, in his defence.

Bravo Jack!

Go the Northern Blues!!!

I'm not sure my post is in his defence, and in defence of what? Maybe re-read it. Can you answer the question, who was pushing Jack Newnes out during this so-called time of coach favouritism and blind faith? If you've been following the club rebuild closely since 2014 you'll know the cupboard was fairly bare, even more so through the injury plagued years of 2018-19. So who was pushing Jack out during this time?

To answer your question

I’d have liked to have seen White play ahead of him in defence
Acres play ahead of him in the middle with someone else as a forward
Any of Hind, Long and Lonie play ahead of him more as a forward

White was delisted for a reason and in hindsight was never going to make it in the AFL system so no chance of pushing Newnes out.
Acres was already in the same team most weeks so how is that pushing him out.
Newnes really is around Members height and has similar strengths in that he's a really good contested mark especially overhead and jumps at the ball like Members and is reasonably accurate set shot at goal but structurally not sure why you would put Newnes full time in the same forward line as Members, plus he was needed in other areas of the ground more most times.
Having said that and ironically I reckon being a mid sized forward could have been worth experimenting with more.
Not even sure why Hind and Lonie are mentioned as options, both totally different players and are small forwards.
The fact of the matter we have been so bereft of AFL ready players most weeks for the past few seasons and Newnes got a game most weeks because our list had limited options in terms of AFL ready players. And it was no coincidence that our list has been screaming out for midfielders in Jack Newnes time, so yeah, he was the best from a really scarce selection pool but you have to put men out on the field and not just throw lambs to the wolves like fans scream for each Thursday. No depth in his position for a long time.
So was Just was never a coaches favourite or the benefit of limitless faith, so the vitriol he's experiences is misguided fan nonsense.

Well said

[skeptic]

Jack Newnes was symptomatic of most things that were wrong with our club. It was like he was left in the team to prove that we had the right age demographic and experience, when in actual fact his past 2 years were not AFL standard and he should have barely played. Arguing who would have replaced him is futile in my view. Any number of players could have been tried in his place. Who knows who would have stuck their hand up? How many young guys are battling away in the reserves hoping to not just get a game but an opportunity (which means poss 5 games in a row to prove same)

Bingo

A lot of ppl don’t get this but it must be incredibly disheartening to bust a gut only to watch mediocrity consistently rewarded.

I don’t know what the deal with White was but reward for performance could have been a way to get him to step up his professionalism.

[BackFromUSA]

Jack is a very good footballer when allowed to be the offensive runner into space. Think the link role that Frankie Peckett used to play.

2018 was poor by his standards and that was due to injury preseason and then niggles through the year.

2019 he started well but as our season unravelled he was demoted to a role player as a defensive forward.

Not a star but not hopeless either.

His best is B grade. His worst is C grade.

Teams need B graders that can play roles.

They make the stars look brighter.

Clark looks like his natural replacement.

Probably now ranked 23-30 on our list.

Get 5 injuries to midfield types and he is your depth.

I hope we retain Jack.

Strength Through Loyalty.

[saynta]

Jack is a very good footballer when allowed to be the offensive runner into space. Think the link role that Frankie Peckett used to play.

2018 was poor by his standards and that was due to injury preseason and then niggles through the year.

2019 he started well but as our season unravelled he was demoted to a role player as a defensive forward.

Not a star but not hopeless either.

His best is B grade. His worst is C grade.

Teams need B graders that can play roles.

They make the stars look brighter.

Clark looks like his natural replacement.

Probably now ranked 23-30 on our list.

Get 5 injuries to midfield types and he is your depth.

I hope we retain Jack.

Strength Through Loyalty.

At last, a post by someone who understands football and footballers.

[Secret Kiel]

Jack Newnes was symptomatic of most things that were wrong with our club. It was like he was left in the team to prove that we had the right age demographic and experience, when in actual fact his past 2 years were not AFL standard and he should have barely played. Arguing who would have replaced him is futile in my view. Any number of players could have been tried in his place. Who knows who would have stuck their hand up? How many young guys are battling away in the reserves hoping to not just get a game but an opportunity (which means poss 5 games in a row to prove same)

Ironically you validate the point accurately and succinctly about Newnes being packaged up with views about what was perceive as being "wrong" with the club and the sky is falling cry, just club bashing for sport of it with no meat on the bone. Newnes become unfairly a symptom, a symbol for rage and frustration and it's why people can't debate the point at hand which is a position and player and who was capable of pushing Jack out of the side, sorry skeptic you didn't answer the question, not even sure why you drifted onto Dempster and the 09 GF, I mean how far do you want to go back as the point just totally doesn't contribute to answering the question, who was capable of pushing Newnes out. Moods If you believe any number of players could have pushed Newnes out then name names. You can battle away at Sandy but that doesn't mean you are AFL ready or you are a like for like player.

[saintsRrising]

I hope we retain Jack.

Strength Through Loyalty.

Improvement through churn.


As Marshall has shown there is gold to be found.

However, I think that for sometime that the club has been reluctant to churn through players on our list to find the gold. We have had many players on our list hoping that they would eventually come good (ie Rice), or would take the next step (ie Acres, Newnes)

By hanging on too long we have had too much iron let alone, the bronze, silver and gold that we need to be a good team.

Now Newnes has not been poor by any means. But with some quality in (Hill, Jones, Clark, Coffield, Butler) he is now excess to requirements and his spot on the list IMO can now be better used by seeking some new talent (which may or may not work out).


We have to keep churning, to prospecting for new talent. We have for too long waited too long hoping that some players would get better and this hampered our list actually improving.

After differing too long it has been good to see some steel and ruthlesnes shown this draft period.

With Young for example we could have done the warm and fuzzy thing and kept him on after only 1 year hoping he would come good. But now recovering from a should reconstruction which would have hampered him net year and after having shown little to suggest that he would make it we have made the correct call to cut him and pay him out.



I suspect the player they are agonising about now is Brown. Not is our best 22 now due to Dougal.
But if a KPP player front or back goes down, or struggles then he can come in.

ie:
Carlisle injured. Brown to FB and Dougal to CHB
King injured, or just is not ready at AFL Level, or is out of form. Dougal to CHF and Brown to FB.

Otherwise they have to make do with Austin, Marsh, Joyce all of whom look better ona flank. Or Clavarino who looks too raw. Battle I assume with KIng are the two KPF's.

[shrodes]

I think we will keep him as Gears needs a partner in crime to torment JB on the podcast

[Moods]

Jack is a very good footballer when allowed to be the offensive runner into space. Think the link role that Frankie Peckett used to play.

2018 was poor by his standards and that was due to injury preseason and then niggles through the year.

2019 he started well but as our season unravelled he was demoted to a role player as a defensive forward.

Not a star but not hopeless either.

His best is B grade. His worst is C grade.

Teams need B graders that can play roles.

They make the stars look brighter.

Clark looks like his natural replacement.

Probably now ranked 23-30 on our list.

Get 5 injuries to midfield types and he is your depth.

I hope we retain Jack.

Strength Through Loyalty.

Good post. I'm happy to debate it. Probably fair that Jack is now 23-30 on our list and is now a depth player. My argument is that he ALWAYS was 23-30 on our list (but who would know? This list order is so subjective) The bottom line is, do we keep a 150 gamer on our list for depth? At this stage of his career, with that many games under his belt, he should be a star in the team. Not out of our best 22. My point is that he's had more than enough chances to make a call on him. His disposal and decision making just isn't good enough for AFL football. He also doesn't win enough of the ball. We will always be treading water with Jack Newnes in the team. We need to be bolder. I recall that Aaron Fiora was delisted after playing 160 AFL games. You simply have to take the step to being a good consistent player by that stage of your career I reckon. If you haven't you're just holding someone back who is possibly capable of it.

[skeptic]

Not sure what you’ve missed here SK,

The point with the Dempster example was that other players that were played in other positions could have come into the midfield, or forward at Newnes expense.
Acres being the obvious example to move from the forward line and we could have played other forwards.

Examples of players that should have played more at Newnes expense
White
Paton
Parker
Langlands
Hind
Phillips
Coffield

Even Clarke late the season before or early this year

All guys that should have had more opportunity then they got and could have contributed more at times than what Newnes

The majority of which I’ll point out have remained on the list.

To be clear, I’m not saying Newnes never played well or should have been earlier...
I actually like him and hope he survives

BUT he played consistently through very bad patches of form with an overwhelming consensus here that it wasn’t deserved at times.

All I’m suggesting is he would have benefited from being dropped s time or two

[Joffa Burns]

Not sure what you’ve missed here SK,

The point with the Dempster example was that other players that were played in other positions could have come into the midfield, or forward at Newnes expense.
Acres being the obvious example to move from the forward line and we could have played other forwards.

Examples of players that should have played more at Newnes expense
White
Paton
Parker
Langlands
Hind
Phillips
Coffield

Even Clarke late the season before or early this year

All guys that should have had more opportunity then they got and could have contributed more at times than what Newnes

The majority of which I’ll point out have remained on the list.

To be clear, I’m not saying Newnes never played well or should have been earlier...
I actually like him and hope he survives

BUT he played consistently through very bad patches of form with an overwhelming consensus here that it wasn’t deserved at times.

All I’m suggesting is he would have benefited from being dropped s time or two

Interestingly of your list of 7 names the only one I’d back to play 150 games like Newnes is Coffield.

Newnes is symptomatic of where the saints have been for the last 7 or 8 years.

GOP C grade AFL player.
Fine if he’s in your bottom 4 battling for a spot but he played 150 or thereabout consecutive games and was in the leadership group from memory.

At his best earned his place and looked like a ‘poor mans BJ’ but agree he seemed to get games when he was ineffective and horribly out of form.

Happy to retain him as depth or let him move on, nil sum gain IMO.

The fact he didn’t get a FA offer from the likes of GC who are desperate for experienced players in his age bracket sums it up.

[stevie]

The John Cena/Claude Rains centre line:

Jack Newnes Bryce Squibbs Andrew Swallow

[Secret Kiel]

Not sure what you’ve missed here SK,

The point with the Dempster example was that other players that were played in other positions could have come into the midfield, or forward at Newnes expense.
Acres being the obvious example to move from the forward line and we could have played other forwards.

Examples of players that should have played more at Newnes expense
White
Paton
Parker
Langlands
Hind
Phillips
Coffield

Even Clarke late the season before or early this year

All guys that should have had more opportunity then they got and could have contributed more at times than what Newnes

The majority of which I’ll point out have remained on the list.

To be clear, I’m not saying Newnes never played well or should have been earlier...
I actually like him and hope he survives

BUT he played consistently through very bad patches of form with an overwhelming consensus here that it wasn’t deserved at times.

All I’m suggesting is he would have benefited from being dropped s time or two

Interestingly of your list of 7 names the only one I’d back to play 150 games like Newnes is Coffield.

Newnes is symptomatic of where the saints have been for the last 7 or 8 years.

GOP C grade AFL player.
Fine if he’s in your bottom 4 battling for a spot but he played 150 or thereabout consecutive games and was in the leadership group from memory.

At his best earned his place and looked like a ‘poor mans BJ’ but agree he seemed to get games when he was ineffective and horribly out of form.

Happy to retain him as depth or let him move on, nil sum gain IMO.

The fact he didn’t get a FA offer from the likes of GC who are desperate for experienced players in his age bracket sums it up.

There's no argument Newnes needed competition, the problem is there was none, how that was Newnes or Richo's problem is bemusing, and there was no one on the list below ready to push Newnes out, they just weren't AFL ready for one reason or another during most of the timeline we are debating, and Parker plays a completely different position and role to Newnes so it's also bemusing why he's been added to that list. It was well known on the rumour mill why White wasn't getting a game, as I say in hindsight he was never going to make the AFL system, Phillips and Coffield weren't physically ready until this season but got got their shot at the right time but Newnes clearly wasn't keeping them out, and Hind and Langlands are like Parker, just totally different position and roles so why would they even come into the selection frame when we are talking the midfield.

White
Paton
Parker
Langlands
Hind
Phillips
Coffield

Newnes was a midfielder and a gap filler in other parts of the ground, the midfield stocks, AFL ready midfield stocks is what we have lacked so again, which midfielders where pushing Newnes out.

I stress, Newnes needed competition but there was no one due to us being a rebuilding team so it made it challenging and it would have exposed us in other areas had we just given "opportunity" to young immature physical specimens.

[Enrico_Misso]

If Jack is off, the challenge for our recruiters will be to pick up two more Jacks to maintain our Jackquilibrium of seven.

[diddley]

If Jack is off, the challenge for our recruiters will be to pick up two more Jacks to maintain our Jackquilibrium of seven.

I think the club saw this coming, and picked up Jack Mayo mid season to prepare.
Everyone knows you can only have 6 Jacks in a deck of cards.

[Vazelos]

HE is not part of our best 22 on last 2 years form. When your position is going to younger players you know your time is up.
He was low balled with a 2 year offer and if the blues offer him more he will go no hesitation.
If he wants to hang around for squad depth for another 2 years good luck to him.
I read someone listed only Coffield as a certain 150 game player I think Paton is going to be a ripper for us and I know Ratten rates him.