Needs to be done through the draft.
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- SydneySainter
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Needs to be done through the draft.
If St. Kilda is to ever be a finals contender again, I think our rebuild will need to be done via the draft and not trades.
Yes, our recent drafting has been poor and yes, our development of younger players even poorer, but like Morth Melbourne, we are not a destination club and year after year we try waving this blank cheque at super star free agents and out-of-contracts and year after year we look like turkeys. Apart from money, we have nothing to offer that the bigger Vic clubs can’t already offer. They can at least of the prospect of finals and competing for a flag.
As unpopular as it may be, if the club is going to pull itself out of the mire, it needs to be done through smart drafting.
Yes, our recent drafting has been poor and yes, our development of younger players even poorer, but like Morth Melbourne, we are not a destination club and year after year we try waving this blank cheque at super star free agents and out-of-contracts and year after year we look like turkeys. Apart from money, we have nothing to offer that the bigger Vic clubs can’t already offer. They can at least of the prospect of finals and competing for a flag.
As unpopular as it may be, if the club is going to pull itself out of the mire, it needs to be done through smart drafting.
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Re: Needs to be done through the draft.
Smart drafting will never be the total answer.SydneySainter wrote: ↑Thu 12 Sep 2019 7:42am If St. Kilda is to ever be a finals contender again, I think our rebuild will need to be done via the draft and not trades.
Yes, our recent drafting has been poor and yes, our development of younger players even poorer, but like Morth Melbourne, we are not a destination club and year after year we try waving this blank cheque at super star free agents and out-of-contracts and year after year we look like turkeys. Apart from money, we have nothing to offer that the bigger Vic clubs can’t already offer. They can at least of the prospect of finals and competing for a flag.
As unpopular as it may be, if the club is going to pull itself out of the mire, it needs to be done through smart drafting.
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- howlinwolf
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Re: Needs to be done through the draft.
I agree SS.
We need to offer overs to get anyone valuable to come.
There's only so many times we can do that until team salaries become unbalanced and or we hit our cap without the complete team.
We need to keep unearthing gold like Marshall,Wilkie,Parker,Gresh etc that don't cost the farm.
To do this though we need a razor sharp recruiting team. Gubby is a start.
We need to offer overs to get anyone valuable to come.
There's only so many times we can do that until team salaries become unbalanced and or we hit our cap without the complete team.
We need to keep unearthing gold like Marshall,Wilkie,Parker,Gresh etc that don't cost the farm.
To do this though we need a razor sharp recruiting team. Gubby is a start.
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- skeptic
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Re: Needs to be done through the draft.
The list needs to be built through the draft... that has always been the case with the asterix that you trade in the specific type of player that you need to round out your list
IMO forwards and rucks in particular are hard to accurately recruit/draft because they're harder to assess as juniors - body development and size advantage as a junior is too prominent a feature here
IMO forwards and rucks in particular are hard to accurately recruit/draft because they're harder to assess as juniors - body development and size advantage as a junior is too prominent a feature here
- barneyboyz
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Re: Needs to be done through the draft.
Plus, look at Sheil at the bummers, doesn't look anything like Sheil at GWS with all those other 'brilliant' picks floating about.howlinwolf wrote: ↑Thu 12 Sep 2019 9:02am I agree SS.
We need to offer overs to get anyone valuable to come.
There's only so many times we can do that until team salaries become unbalanced and or we hit our cap without the complete team.
We need to keep unearthing gold like Marshall,Wilkie,Parker,Gresh etc that don't cost the farm.
To do this though we need a razor sharp recruiting team. Gubby is a start.
Problem for us is we probably need some more very low picks. Doing so though, is not what we want as a supporter group
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Re: Needs to be done through the draft.
I have put before that our rebuild (from nothing which is the crux of the problem) commenced with the Draft that got us Billings, Dunstan and Acres in the top 20
So I am of the view that we have done well - allowing for the bad luck with the only Number 1 we have had
The likes of Gresham, Coffield and Clark are there plus we look forward to King
It is a process - including FA which advantages the Cartel Clubs
From there you look at the likes of Bruce, Membrey and Steele seeking further opportunity and who can perform at the level required (ie a consistent finals participant)
So I am of the view that we have done well - allowing for the bad luck with the only Number 1 we have had
The likes of Gresham, Coffield and Clark are there plus we look forward to King
It is a process - including FA which advantages the Cartel Clubs
From there you look at the likes of Bruce, Membrey and Steele seeking further opportunity and who can perform at the level required (ie a consistent finals participant)
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Re: Needs to be done through the draft.
Silly thread. It's a combination of both. Look at Brisbane this year. Great drafting in previous years and awesome traded players
- SydneySainter
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Re: Needs to be done through the draft.
If your definition of awesome trades is to trade in top end talent, the club has tried and largely been unsuccessful in attracting that kind of talent, no matter how big the pay offer. Why is it that clubs like Hawthorn and Essendon are largely everyone’s preferred destination.DJ Higgins wrote: ↑Thu 12 Sep 2019 10:11am Silly thread. It's a combination of both. Look at Brisbane this year. Great drafting in previous years and awesome traded players
Great drafting will build a good core and once that core is on the rise, then top end talent will the benefit playing for us.
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Re: Needs to be done through the draft.
The key for mine is keeping a core group together so they can grow together and make sure your leaders are emerging out of that group. Keep chopping and changing or bringing in new leaders from other clubs and - unless their brief is clearly to help grow the guys there already - you're effectively rebuilding every season.
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Re: Needs to be done through the draft.
Missed the point completely. It's not one or the ither, it's both combinedSydneySainter wrote: ↑Thu 12 Sep 2019 10:31amIf your definition of awesome trades is to trade in top end talent, the club has tried and largely been unsuccessful in attracting that kind of talent, no matter how big the pay offer. Why is it that clubs like Hawthorn and Essendon are largely everyone’s preferred destination.DJ Higgins wrote: ↑Thu 12 Sep 2019 10:11am Silly thread. It's a combination of both. Look at Brisbane this year. Great drafting in previous years and awesome traded players
Great drafting will build a good core and once that core is on the rise, then top end talent will the benefit playing for us.
- DownAtTheJunction
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Re: Needs to be done through the draft.
I think this is an important discussion.SydneySainter wrote: ↑Thu 12 Sep 2019 7:42am If St. Kilda is to ever be a finals contender again, I think our rebuild will need to be done via the draft and not trades.
Yes, our recent drafting has been poor and yes, our development of younger players even poorer, but like Morth Melbourne, we are not a destination club and year after year we try waving this blank cheque at super star free agents and out-of-contracts and year after year we look like turkeys. Apart from money, we have nothing to offer that the bigger Vic clubs can’t already offer. They can at least of the prospect of finals and competing for a flag.
As unpopular as it may be, if the club is going to pull itself out of the mire, it needs to be done through smart drafting.
I'm not sure if there is a 'one size fits all approach' to list development, but the better we get at sourcing players from the draft, the better our list.
I can't really see a time when clubs won't seek to entice stars from other clubs. But it is important to be selective.
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Re: Needs to be done through the draft.
I have said before that through the early 2000's Geelong used to winge about not being a destination club, and no one wanted to travel to Geelong to play. Well bugger me, nearly 20 years later they have 3 flags and a potential for a fourth.SydneySainter wrote: ↑Thu 12 Sep 2019 10:31amIf your definition of awesome trades is to trade in top end talent, the club has tried and largely been unsuccessful in attracting that kind of talent, no matter how big the pay offer. Why is it that clubs like Hawthorn and Essendon are largely everyone’s preferred destination.DJ Higgins wrote: ↑Thu 12 Sep 2019 10:11am Silly thread. It's a combination of both. Look at Brisbane this year. Great drafting in previous years and awesome traded players
Great drafting will build a good core and once that core is on the rise, then top end talent will the benefit playing for us.
They don't have any issues getting players to travel down the freeway anymore??? Success is the answer, the last 7 - 8 years have been a glitch in our plans
We have to have some hope. I have hope
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Re: Needs to be done through the draft.
The best list. Hold this club had was from 2000 to 2006. Good draft picks and then players like Gehrig, Voss, Schneider, and Dempster traded in. The important thing is to not give up first round picks for players from other clubs.
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Re: Needs to be done through the draft.
Excellent post. Add to that ensuring those first round picks aren't wasted. We were stiff having the #1 pick in the year we did, that said we blew it. We cannot afford to make those mistakes.
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Re: Needs to be done through the draft.
You need both.
We’re doing both.
We’re doing both.
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Re: Needs to be done through the draft.
Which particular years you get those early picks can have a huge bearing. In 2000 we got a pile of gold dropped at our feet. Our most recent number one pick was in a weak draft. If Clark had been in that draft he may have been pick one. There are weak drafts, mediocre drafts, and great drafts. I think the 2017 and 2018 drafts will prove to be a couple of the best. It looks the this one and the next will be nowhere near as good
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Re: Needs to be done through the draft.
2014
Pick 1. Paddy McCartin
Pick 61. Harris Andrews
Hard to fathom, isn't it?
Pick 1. Paddy McCartin
Pick 61. Harris Andrews
Hard to fathom, isn't it?
- evertonfc
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Re: Needs to be done through the draft.
Yep, it's a combination of both.DJ Higgins wrote: ↑Thu 12 Sep 2019 10:11am Silly thread. It's a combination of both. Look at Brisbane this year. Great drafting in previous years and awesome traded players
Hamill/Gehrig/Voss/Powell/Gram/Ackland/Guerra + Riewoldt/Ball/Koschitzke/Clarke/Maguire was the fuel that powered us up the table in 2004-05.
You'll get a few wrong in both columns (Brooks, Watts, Lovett...McCartin, Howard, Winmar), but you can't avoid the fact that you need to get the balance right.
(PS: What's really criminal is when you give away good players for under their market value: Hickey, Lynch and Cripps).
Last edited by evertonfc on Thu 12 Sep 2019 4:22pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Needs to be done through the draft.
SydneySainter wrote: ↑Thu 12 Sep 2019 7:42am If St. Kilda is to ever be a finals contender again, I think our rebuild will need to be done via the draft and not trades.
I disagree. It needs to be both.
However BOTH need to be done well, and that is the real issue, choosing the right players.
For example if we to gain Hill I think it will make a significant difference as both Ross and Dunstan will be better players with an outside player like Hill to feed, and be supported by.
I do however think it is a mistake to gain older players like Ryder.
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Re: Needs to be done through the draft.
FWIW, I reckon Fremantle will accept any pick from 5-10 for Brad Hill.
If we can split 5 into 8-and-something or 10-and-something, I would be pleased. Might get us back into the 2nd round of the draft, whilst also enabling Hill to come here.
If we can split 5 into 8-and-something or 10-and-something, I would be pleased. Might get us back into the 2nd round of the draft, whilst also enabling Hill to come here.
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- ausfatcat
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Re: Needs to be done through the draft.
It needs to be done with both, in the past you could concentrate more on the draft with priority picks, but not now everything needs to be spot on to be successful, drafting, trading and coaching/development all have to be done extremely well. 2009/2010 side was a combo of these things
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Re: Needs to be done through the draft.
Paddy has been unlucky with his injuries though, we've never gotten to see what he's capable of. So not the best example I don't think.
Is the thread suggesting we shouldn't get Hill? Because he will cost.
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Re: Needs to be done through the draft.
I agree with Sydney Sainter
The first stanza is to Draft well so that as experience builds to 100 games (that number because there is no core of class, experienced players to shield these players) we see improved team performance to challenging status (so pushing to finals participation and expectation) therefore able to present to FA players that there is an identifiable future at St Kilda including playing finals
We can not sell the “blockbuster” games the Cartel Clubs can sell but we can sell trajectory
Hence you do not throw out the baby with the bath water - because it is a process
You build the blocks
Success begets success
The first stanza is to Draft well so that as experience builds to 100 games (that number because there is no core of class, experienced players to shield these players) we see improved team performance to challenging status (so pushing to finals participation and expectation) therefore able to present to FA players that there is an identifiable future at St Kilda including playing finals
We can not sell the “blockbuster” games the Cartel Clubs can sell but we can sell trajectory
Hence you do not throw out the baby with the bath water - because it is a process
You build the blocks
Success begets success
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Re: Needs to be done through the draft.
perhaps the openng post was relative to the fact we cannot draft very good talent into the club, hence need to build a core of exciting youth. there does need to be that excitement and belief amongst potential draftees to appeal to the prime prospects. blight's appointment provided that, then the brilliant core provided that. we were a team on the move.
i was hoping harvey's appointment would provide a spark, but instead it's more of the same. so we need our youngsters to provide that spark. if king looks a champion, if clark, coff, gresham, et all take the next step, and we start winning and look finals bound, we'll be able to serve up that as an enticer. i would also hope inner suburban living around the st kilda area might appeal as well. thank F*** we got out of seaford. would also help if our high profile supporters got a lot more involved to add to the appeal.
i was hoping harvey's appointment would provide a spark, but instead it's more of the same. so we need our youngsters to provide that spark. if king looks a champion, if clark, coff, gresham, et all take the next step, and we start winning and look finals bound, we'll be able to serve up that as an enticer. i would also hope inner suburban living around the st kilda area might appeal as well. thank F*** we got out of seaford. would also help if our high profile supporters got a lot more involved to add to the appeal.
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- skeptic
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Re: Needs to be done through the draft.
What it ultimately comes down to is getting quality players through the door... draft them, trade them doesn’t matter.
The flawed strategy is trading good players for speculative picks like Bruce for 14 or bringing in over the hill players like Ryder
The flawed strategy is trading good players for speculative picks like Bruce for 14 or bringing in over the hill players like Ryder