The best ruckman in a generation

[perfectionist]

Probably the KOD, but Rowan Marshall plays the game better than any ruckman of his generation, particularly at this stage of his development. Interestingly, he is a "young" player in terms of games (28), but not so much in age (23) - which adds a bit of maturity. And it is his football "thinking" that sets him apart. He is some times too fast for his teammates - a rare quality in ruckman. He has started to develop the "Lazar Vidovic" knowledge of dropping back. He already has displayed the Peter Everitt ability to run forward. My only criticism is the wasted energy of his high leaps at centre bounces. His work in the first quarter set up the win and he was still working hard in the last. If Max King comes good, they will be a formidable double. Let's hope his injury run is behind him and that Rowan has more than his share of luck in that department.

[Mr Magic]

I noticed he spent an extended period on the bench in the second quarter - at least 10 minutes,
I wonder if that was deliberate to allow him to conserve energy for later in the game?

[MC Gusto]

He is a jet

[bigred]

I reckon he is playing hurt a bit.

His right calf is pretty heavily strapped. Might need a rest to be honest.

[Wombat15]

I reckon he is playing hurt a bit.

His right calf is pretty heavily strapped. Might need a rest to be honest.

Shin guard to protect the leg? I noticed R Stanley wears them on both legs. Marshall might be doing the same thing.

[evertonfc]

An extraordinary performance.

But we need to protect him and help him. I'd be thinking about playing him in tandem with Longer for the rest of the year.

His body is taking a battering. It's wonderful to see, but it's time to think about 2020 and beyond.

I'd say to Longer the only way to save his career is to become an absolute battering ram.

[saynta]

Don't think Billy is over his concussion .

[Bernard Shakey]

An extraordinary performance.

But we need to protect him and help him. I'd be thinking about playing him in tandem with Longer for the rest of the year.

His body is taking a battering. It's wonderful to see, but it's time to think about 2020 and beyond.

I'd say to Longer the only way to save his career is to become an absolute battering ram.

Longer is out with concussion, hasn't played for months. Ditto Pierce!

[Ghost Like]

Keep playing him unless he's an identified injury and then ice him. These last 5 games which will bring his tally to 33 will be more beneficial than cotton wool & a pre season.

He's a beast who thrives on hard work and confidence. Appears to have a real thirst to dominate. I love seeing him out there, growing & competing. Finally a ruckman to build around.

[Saintmatt]

Probably the KOD, but Rowan Marshall plays the game better than any ruckman of his generation, particularly at this stage of his development. Interestingly, he is a "young" player in terms of games (28), but not so much in age (23) - which adds a bit of maturity. And it is his football "thinking" that sets him apart. He is some times too fast for his teammates - a rare quality in ruckman. He has started to develop the "Lazar Vidovic" knowledge of dropping back. He already has displayed the Peter Everitt ability to run forward. My only criticism is the wasted energy of his high leaps at centre bounces. His work in the first quarter set up the win and he was still working hard in the last. If Max King comes good, they will be a formidable double. Let's hope his injury run is behind him and that Rowan has more than his share of luck in that department.

All of this. And it's also one of the reasons why Goldstein or Ryder would be the perfect compliment for RoMa for a couple of years. Don't let the Ferrari do the bullocking work in the 1st ruck at centre bounces and put his PCL / corkies at risk - let our lad play as the most dangerous forward/2nd ruck since the Vidovic / Spider combo (what a 1-2 punch they were!)

RoMa is competing admirably as a 1st ruck against the likes of Grundy and Gawn already (mind you - Tim English is a ripper too) so, imagine how good he'd be coming up against the likes of another team's 2nd ruck? He'd be unstoppable - a genuine weapon.

[evertonfc]

An extraordinary performance.

But we need to protect him and help him. I'd be thinking about playing him in tandem with Longer for the rest of the year.

His body is taking a battering. It's wonderful to see, but it's time to think about 2020 and beyond.

I'd say to Longer the only way to save his career is to become an absolute battering ram.

Longer is out with concussion, hasn't played for months. Ditto Pierce!

My apologies. Scrap the idea of the battering ram then.

Still want to protect Marshall, however...wonder if there's a way. He's just got such a high-impact style and while he can clearly pull it off, I'd like to see him as fresh as possible for 2020.

[ace]

An extraordinary performance.

But we need to protect him and help him. I'd be thinking about playing him in tandem with Longer for the rest of the year.

His body is taking a battering. It's wonderful to see, but it's time to think about 2020 and beyond.

I'd say to Longer the only way to save his career is to become an absolute battering ram.

Longer is out with concussion, hasn't played for months. Ditto Pierce!

I find it incredible that we have 3 players with near permanent concussion.
I don't think the game has changed rapidly enough to cause that.
I think that concussion is finally being diagnosed correctly and indicates that in the past a lot of players were still playing with the effects of concussion.
Just wait for the legal cases to begin.

[B.M]

Jesus!

Talk about going over the top?!

He has plenty of development to go, to get to the level of Gawn and Grundy. Or even to where Stef Martin or Goldstein when they were at their best. Then you’ve got Nic Nat.

He is still getting well beaten by the bigger ruckmen at stoppage, and has to build his strength and power.

Got no doubt he’ll end up a beauty, but Dean Cox, Grundy, Gawn he is not, Will he ever be? Not sure he’s big enough?

[Red]

He's going to be good. Right now he is just a competitor who has reasonable skills.

[freely]

The last couple of games, did I imagine it or have we sometimes been using Carlisle down back and Bruce up forward, even when Marshall's on the ground? I know people on here hate Bruce rucking (possibly because he's not very good at it!) - but it does seem to make sense to have this sort of setup instead of just one ruck rushing from stoppage to stoppage. Reasons against?

[portosaint]

Jesus!

Talk about going over the top?!

He has plenty of development to go, to get to the level of Gawn and Grundy. Or even to where Stef Martin or Goldstein when they were at their best. Then you’ve got Nic Nat.

He is still getting well beaten by the bigger ruckmen at stoppage, and has to build his strength and power.

Got no doubt he’ll end up a beauty, but Dean Cox, Grundy, Gawn he is not, Will he ever be? Not sure he’s big enough?

Nic Nat... Hugely overrated IMO. Beautiful tap ruckman. Averages less than 2 marks and 12 disposals per match over his career. Numbers aren't everything... But surely your superstar ruckman manages to catch the footy more than 1.8 times per game???

You talk about the likes of Acres being a lazy footballer. It absolutely beggars belief that a player with the athletic capabilities of Naitanui is not challenged to impact games more. Talk about living off some nice tap work and a handful of influential games.

Shouldn't even be mentioned in the same post as the others.

[BonoRocks]

Jesus!

Talk about going over the top?!

He has plenty of development to go, to get to the level of Gawn and Grundy. Or even to where Stef Martin or Goldstein when they were at their best. Then you’ve got Nic Nat.

He is still getting well beaten by the bigger ruckmen at stoppage, and has to build his strength and power.

Got no doubt he’ll end up a beauty, but Dean Cox, Grundy, Gawn he is not, Will he ever be? Not sure he’s big enough?

Nic Nat... Hugely overrated IMO. Beautiful tap ruckman. Averages less than 2 marks and 12 disposals per match over his career. Numbers aren't everything... But surely your superstar ruckman manages to catch the footy more than 1.8 times per game???

You talk about the likes of Acres being a lazy footballer. It absolutely beggars belief that a player with the athletic capabilities of Naitanui is not challenged to impact games more. Talk about living off some nice tap work and a handful of influential games.

Shouldn't even be mentioned in the same post as the others.

About the same as his average in junior footy. He should dominate but doesn’t and never has

[B.M]

He still dominates at stoppage. He is not as good as Gawn and Grundy, however, he gives Shuey an armchair ride. He doesn’t read the footy in general play. He ha# also been an AA ruckman.

If NN played on Marshall now

Marshall would get 15-20 poss, 5-8 marks, 15-20 hit outs
Nic Nat would get 10-12 poss, 2-4 marks, 30-40 hit outs

WC would win centre clearance and stoppage clearance 2 to 1

[Jacks Back]

An extraordinary performance.

But we need to protect him and help him. I'd be thinking about playing him in tandem with Longer for the rest of the year.

His body is taking a battering. It's wonderful to see, but it's time to think about 2020 and beyond.

I'd say to Longer the only way to save his career is to become an absolute battering ram.

Longer is out with concussion, hasn't played for months. Ditto Pierce!

My apologies. Scrap the idea of the battering ram then.

Still want to protect Marshall, however...wonder if there's a way. He's just got such a high-impact style and while he can clearly pull it off, I'd like to see him as fresh as possible for 2020.

Maybe Rowe comes in for his 100th game and shares the rucking duties with Marshall?

[portosaint]

He still dominates at stoppage. He is not as good as Gawn and Grundy, however, he gives Shuey an armchair ride. He doesn’t read the footy in general play. He ha# also been an AA ruckman.

If NN played on Marshall now

Marshall would get 15-20 poss, 5-8 marks, 15-20 hit outs
Nic Nat would get 10-12 poss, 2-4 marks, 30-40 hit outs

WC would win centre clearance and stoppage clearance 2 to 1

We both agree his tap work is second to none. Most do. But he is lazy around the ground. If you can at least break even with the mids you can basically negate his output. "Does not read the play" is an understatement.

In 160+ games he has taken 5 or more marks 15 times. Think about that... The draftee that could jump over houses and run like the wind. Simply, he doesn't impact as he should and never gets called out on it. Talk about riding the wave of media ejaculation.

Let's not forget Rowan is 28 games into his career. A baby still. And he reads the game beautifully... Old school. Of those 28 he has already caught the ball 5+ times in more games than Super Nic Nat. And Rowan pushes hard defensively and offensively to impact... I would argue he has the ability to open up a lazy ruckman like Naitanui with his work rate. Already more important to St Kilda than Nic Nat is to Wet Coke.

Can't wait to see the kid after 160 games.

[evertonfc]

Maybe Rowe comes in for his 100th game and shares the rucking duties with Marshall?

I'd allow that in the final round. Seems like Rowe has been a good person around the club.

[barneyboyz]

He still dominates at stoppage. He is not as good as Gawn and Grundy, however, he gives Shuey an armchair ride. He doesn’t read the footy in general play. He ha# also been an AA ruckman.

If NN played on Marshall now

Marshall would get 15-20 poss, 5-8 marks, 15-20 hit outs
Nic Nat would get 10-12 poss, 2-4 marks, 30-40 hit outs

WC would win centre clearance and stoppage clearance 2 to 1

We both agree his tap work is second to none. Most do. But he is lazy around the ground. If you can at least break even with the mids you can basically negate his output. "Does not read the play" is an understatement.

In 160+ games he has taken 5 or more marks 15 times. Think about that... The draftee that could jump over houses and run like the wind. Simply, he doesn't impact as he should and never gets called out on it. Talk about riding the wave of media ejaculation.

Let's not forget Rowan is 28 games into his career. A baby still. And he reads the game beautifully... Old school. Of those 28 he has already caught the ball 5+ times in more games than Super Nic Nat. And Rowan pushes hard defensively and offensively to impact... I would argue he has the ability to open up a lazy ruckman like Naitanui with his work rate. Already more important to St Kilda than Nic Nat is to Wet Coke.

Can't wait to see the kid after 160 games.

I know which one I prefer. NN runs around like a 50yo now

[supersaints2]

I noticed he spent an extended period on the bench in the second quarter - at least 10 minutes,
I wonder if that was deliberate to allow him to conserve energy for later in the game?

I wasn't at the game but, if I recall correctly watching the Fox broadcast , he got kneed in the lower back kidney area by the Doggies ruckman when going back for a mark

No coincidence the Doggies dominated when Marshall was off the ground

[mad saint guy]

The last couple of games, did I imagine it or have we sometimes been using Carlisle down back and Bruce up forward, even when Marshall's on the ground? I know people on here hate Bruce rucking (possibly because he's not very good at it!) - but it does seem to make sense to have this sort of setup instead of just one ruck rushing from stoppage to stoppage. Reasons against?

I've noticed this as well and I think it has helped Marshall run out the game. For much of the year his first half has been incredible before dropping away in the second, however having Bruce and Carlisle taking the forward and defensive contests saves Marshall energy and allows him to set up in a dangerous spot away from the stoppage.

A Rory Lobb/Rhys Stanley type would be the ideal partner for Marhsall right now. Someone who is a dangerous forward and can provide a very strong contest in the ruck for 5 minutes per quarter. Hopefully that is exactly what Max King becomes.

[saintsRrising]

The ruck to compare Marshall with is Grundy.

Grundy is 20 months older.

Both will get better.

But Marshall is new to his position at AFL Level. His rate of improvement over this year is stunning. His upside now is breathaking, as long as he does not plateau and I do not think he will anytime soon.

He has all the hallmarks of the great players. The raw ability, the focus, the swagger and the talent. And yes dare I say the Lenny Hayes ability to drag other players (his team mates) along with him.

Max too is a very good ruck. But Marshall edges him in ball use and mobility.

Many modern rucks are poor marks. Marshall is a good mark.

Marshall's ability at the the ruck contest will now also get only better and better as he will focus on it in games and in training.

Behind me at the last game a Doggies fan cried out "But he took the ball out of of the air"...obviously unaware of the rule change. At last we have an AFL rule change that actually advantages a St Kilda Player for a change.
Marshall has two great abilities that work well for him in this:
- He can dispose of the ball well by hand and foot
- He has amazing core strength and stability. He grabs the ball, and opponents tackle him, but he still gets the ball off.

In the Doggies game Ratten seemed to want to take more advantage of this ability as it happened more. Plus Ratten actually allowed him to ruck forward. Under Richo it was Bruce or Acres taking the ball ups in our forward line. Marshall winning the ball in our forward 50 creates scoring opportunities.


Grundy might be Grand. But Marshall I think will be Magnificent.

PS: Bytel will start his career in 2020 as a mid thanking his lucky stars that Marshall will be his ruck.