AFL Overkill

[tedtheodorelogan2018]

AFL is way out of touch with supporters and grass roots footy. They have no idea what is going on. They are a massive corporate organisation that gets too involved in fringe issues. The actual footy product and coverage is good but there is still a big disconnect.

[BarryGrogan]

If you have ever visited countries like China and India, or as a general rule the Middle Eastern and Asian countries as a whole, are intolerant to immigrants and you will find that they are some of the most racist and bigoted places on earth.

You could probably surmise that the very people you are championing their perceived unjust treatment, have a complete disdain of the very people that they are employed to supposedly supervise.

See, when someone puts their hand up and admits it - it is much more logical.

"They're racist - so why can't I be?!"

Although I don't necessarily agree, at least it's a starting point for a conversation.


As for the second part of your post, I'm not championing anyone and haven't even broached the subject of them being treated unjustly.

Ah Bazza, a typical elitist inner suburb socialist lefty response.

Didn’t mention at all that “because they are racist then we can be too” but it didn’t surprise me that you would pull that old chestnut out.

Was merely stating a fact.

I understand that it can be uncomfortable when facts are produced to support an opinion so the modus operadi is to go the strawman argument.

But by all means proceed with your outrage, don’t let me get in the way of good dose of indignation and condescension to make your day.

It wasn't uncomfortable - it was refreshing. At least you've provided a reason to be racist.

"If you have ever visited countries like China and India, or as a general rule the Middle Eastern and Asian countries as a whole, are intolerant to immigrants and you will find that they are some of the most racist and bigoted places on earth."

If the above comment isn't intended to justify people here being racist - then what is its point?

I'm not sure it can interpreted any other way.

Unfortunately, if you'd just left it at that, your argumemt would make sense. You'd admitted you're racist - but at least provided a reason.

But then you go and ruin it by being like the rest and denying it, screaming "LEFTIES!!!" whenever you get called on it and descending into an embarrassing mess of hypocrisy.



You're wrong about outrage though, and you're wrong about me championing anyone. I've said nothing of the sort.

I'm actually very tolerant of both sides of most arguments, and I generally find my personal view residing somewhere in the middle.

Amd on this one, I'm tolerant of racists (to a degree obviously) - I just don't understand why they deny it.

[shanegrambeau]

It’s a huge caterpillar with the corporate head at the leading end and the fans at the other end. The fans are anchored and holding on to a withering branch- a world familiar to us, a world that gives us comfort, despite its vulgarity. At the moment the head is stretching itself, describing an arc high into the new moral high air, with Damian Barrett sitting atop with his loud hailer screaming out his credentials to the ‘brave new world’. It’s the same caterpillar that takes the game to Sydney and Gold Coast, kills Fitzroy and takes Tasmania for granted. The crowds are the new Tasmania.

[BarryGrogan]

Why do people keep calling them 'fans'?

They're customers.


Like any business, if the customers stop buying rhe product, the product either changes to suit the customers - or it dies.

If you don't like the product that the AFL is producing, stop buying it. That's the only way it will ever change.

[saynta]

If you have ever visited countries like China and India, or as a general rule the Middle Eastern and Asian countries as a whole, are intolerant to immigrants and you will find that they are some of the most racist and bigoted places on earth.

You could probably surmise that the very people you are championing their perceived unjust treatment, have a complete disdain of the very people that they are employed to supposedly supervise.

See, when someone puts their hand up and admits it - it is much more logical.

"They're racist - so why can't I be?!"

Although I don't necessarily agree, at least it's a starting point for a conversation.


As for the second part of your post, I'm not championing anyone and haven't even broached the subject of them being treated unjustly.

Ah Bazza, a typical elitist inner suburb socialist lefty response.

Didn’t mention at all that “because they are racist then we can be too” but it didn’t surprise me that you would pull that old chestnut out.

Was merely stating a fact.

I understand that it can be uncomfortable when facts are produced to support an opinion so the modus operadi is to go the strawman argument.

But by all means proceed with your outrage, don’t let me get in the way of good dose of indignation and condescension to make your day.

It wasn't uncomfortable - it was refreshing. At least you've provided a reason to be racist.

"If you have ever visited countries like China and India, or as a general rule the Middle Eastern and Asian countries as a whole, are intolerant to immigrants and you will find that they are some of the most racist and bigoted places on earth."

If the above comment isn't intended to justify people here being racist - then what is its point?

I'm not sure it can interpreted any other way.

Unfortunately, if you'd just left it at that, your argumemt would make sense. You'd admitted you're racist - but at least provided a reason.

But then you go and ruin it by being like the rest and denying it, screaming "LEFTIES!!!" whenever you get called on it and descending into an embarrassing mess of hypocrisy.



You're wrong about outrage though, and you're wrong about me championing anyone. I've said nothing of the sort.

I'm actually very tolerant of both sides of most arguments, and I generally find my personal view residing somewhere in the middle.

Amd on this one, I'm tolerant of racists (to a degree obviously) - I just don't understand why they deny it.

If the truth be know, everyone is a racist to some extent, some more than others. As you state, some just deny it.

[BarryGrogan]

If the truth be know, everyone is a racist to some extent, some more than others. As you state, some just deny it.

I don't think everyone is.

But plenty are.

Many have changed it, and some are trying to change it.

Some don't even realise they are.

But some deny it, even when told that they are.

And then there are others that refuse to change.


I actually empathise with most, except the ones that refuse to change, and the ones that deny it.

[Groovy Guru]

If you have ever visited countries like China and India, or as a general rule the Middle Eastern and Asian countries as a whole, are intolerant to immigrants and you will find that they are some of the most racist and bigoted places on earth.

You could probably surmise that the very people you are championing their perceived unjust treatment, have a complete disdain of the very people that they are employed to supposedly supervise.

See, when someone puts their hand up and admits it - it is much more logical.

"They're racist - so why can't I be?!"

Although I don't necessarily agree, at least it's a starting point for a conversation.


As for the second part of your post, I'm not championing anyone and haven't even broached the subject of them being treated unjustly.

Ah Bazza, a typical elitist inner suburb socialist lefty response.

Didn’t mention at all that “because they are racist then we can be too” but it didn’t surprise me that you would pull that old chestnut out.

Was merely stating a fact.

I understand that it can be uncomfortable when facts are produced to support an opinion so the modus operadi is to go the strawman argument.

But by all means proceed with your outrage, don’t let me get in the way of good dose of indignation and condescension to make your day.

It wasn't uncomfortable - it was refreshing. At least you've provided a reason to be racist.

"If you have ever visited countries like China and India, or as a general rule the Middle Eastern and Asian countries as a whole, are intolerant to immigrants and you will find that they are some of the most racist and bigoted places on earth."

If the above comment isn't intended to justify people here being racist - then what is its point?

I'm not sure it can interpreted any other way.

Unfortunately, if you'd just left it at that, your argumemt would make sense. You'd admitted you're racist - but at least provided a reason.

But then you go and ruin it by being like the rest and denying it, screaming "LEFTIES!!!" whenever you get called on it and descending into an embarrassing mess of hypocrisy.



You're wrong about outrage though, and you're wrong about me championing anyone. I've said nothing of the sort.

I'm actually very tolerant of both sides of most arguments, and I generally find my personal view residing somewhere in the middle.

Amd on this one, I'm tolerant of racists (to a degree obviously) - I just don't understand why they deny it.

And there we have it, a regulation response from the “Elitist Inner Suburb Socialist Lefts on how to respond to a factual succinct rebuttal” hand book.

The go to ….. “you are a racist” comment …… and the old classic “Screaming LEFTIES !!!” statement.

Obviously hit a nerve.

Those bully boy tactics are text book Bazza. Good to see that you didn’t disappoint.

Must be very frustrating being called out for what they are.

[Dis Believer]

If the truth be know, everyone is a racist to some extent, some more than others. As you state, some just deny it.

I don't think everyone is.

But plenty are.

Many have changed it, and some are trying to change it.

Some don't even realise they are.

But some deny it, even when told that they are.

And then there are others that refuse to change.


I actually empathise with most, except the ones that refuse to change, and the ones that deny it.

Maybe you need to stop using words incorrectly. You made a statement about those throwing the phrase "leftie" around, but you are using the exact behaviour that elicits that response.
You are misusing the word "racist". People are not being racist, they are discriminating. To be racist means to hold a belief or view that a person, or group of people, are in some way inferior or less worthy than others, or to hold a dislike/hatred of them, based purely on race. People are discriminating when they judge someone to be a new arrival to Australia, based purely on appearance.

[SaintPav]

I particularly liked this comment from a herald sun reader.

"Brian W
6 hours ago
Why should McLachlan be surprised that fans feel alienated from the AFL. He constantly lectures fans about what social views are acceptable and acts as though he considers most fans to be racist, sexist, homophobic bigots who need to be taught how to behave properly.

And?


I don't know why the racists, bigots, sexists and homophobes don't just own it.

If you think what Kennett said is 'telling it how it is', you're racist. You might not be KKK racist - but you're racist.

Full stop.

Just accept it.

If you voted against gay marriage, you're a homophobe. Full stop.
You might not hate guys - but you're still against them havibg the same rights as straight people. Homophobe.

Accept it.


Kennett whined "How dare you call me racist! I'm pro-immigration!" - immediately after he said that only white guys are capable of performing a security role at the footy.

He might not be Tony Abbott level racist - but he's racist. He might not be a bad person, but he's racist.

Just accept it.


These people embarrass themselves when they deny it.

Sounds like a nuanced argument.

By your prInciples, Dick Smith is a racist then.

I was going to say you’re being black and white, but I did’t want to offend anyone.

They're not my principles, they're society's.

The goal posts have changed.

The same as how slapping a chick on the arse and calling her 'Luv' was once acceptable in the office - it's not now.

If you do it - you're sexist. You might not be Harvey Weinstein level, but if someone calls you out on it and labels you sexist - you can't argue. You're sexist.

That's what sexist now looks like.


My Grandma used to refuse to get in a taxi if it came to pick her up and the driver was a 'New Australian'. Back then, no one flinched at her opinion.
But now - it's racist. She was judging someone, and their abilities to do a job based on the fact they weren't white.

Totally raciat in today's society. Wonderful woman that did lots of great things for people - but today, she'd be racist. It is what it is.


Back to Kennett's comments, they weren't inly racist, they were just stupid.

If you're not white, you weren't born here?? I mean WTF? What planet is he on?

And if you weren't born here, you don't know anything about the footy??? For real?

I wonder how many of Hawthorn's members were actually born here?


What stupid things to say.

So many logical fallacies I just don't know where to begin. I think you're the one who is bringing irrelevant issues into this.

So you need an authority to tell you that something is now racist!? It was racist then, and it's racist now.

Like a few others have pointed out, your confusing society's values with government, corporate and other institutional propaganda and bulls***.

What your ignorant grandma did 50 years ago is irrelevant. No offence, but your grandma didn't sound that wonderful or compassionate, but it does sound like you're now on a bad guilt trip, man.

[saynta]

If the truth be know, everyone is a racist to some extent, some more than others. As you state, some just deny it.

I don't think everyone is.

But plenty are.

Many have changed it, and some are trying to change it.

Some don't even realise they are.

But some deny it, even when told that they are.

And then there are others that refuse to change.


I actually empathise with most, except the ones that refuse to change, and the ones that deny it.

You're in the ranks of those who deny they are racist then.

And your use of the word chick to describe a female office worker is definitely sexist.

[saynta]

https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/ken ... 51z5j.html SportAFLAFL off-field behaviour



?I never in my life thought I’d be going into bat for Jeff Kennett.
.

However, the outrage over his comments this week, on top of the shambolic handling of the AFL’s crowd behaviour issue, has left many people wondering just what the hell is going on.

Kennett’s remarks on 3AW this week are notorious, now. He criticised the new breed of security guards at Marvel Stadium last weekend as being unable to properly fulfil their role because they appeared to be “new arrivals” to Australia.

Kennett was echoing many people’s unease at the new level of security personnel who, as we are marking the 70th anniversary of the publication of George Orwell’s 1984, were fittingly described by the authorities as something at once menacing and also meaningless; hence, “Behavioural Awareness Officers”.

Let’s be blunt. Kennett’s remarks were inelegant in the extreme and certainly open to be interpreted as saying that a person’s skin colour might mean they could never understand footy’s passionate culture. We can all agree that is just wrong. But while being clumsy, Kennett was making a valid point: that the people who police crowd behaviour should have a knowledge of the game and, from that, hopefully have a reasonably sophisticated understanding of where to draw the line between the passionate, humorous and acceptable, and the unacceptably malignant and abusive. If he had left it there he would have been on much safer ground.

The sight of the well-meaning but naive security guard wanting to separate two players wrestling during the North Melbourne v GWS game in Tasmania on Sunday shows that Kennett was definitely onto something.

Unfortunately, his choice of words allowed his point to be obscured by the now obligatory social media pile-on, with wildly inflammatory and bombastic comments in turn leading to equally incendiary counter-responses. “I’m not being racist when I say this," he began, "but when I saw some of the footage, the people who are making judgments while they wear these authoritative coats are not people who appear to have a great knowledge of our game."

AFL boss Gillon McLachlan said the remarks were "racially stereotyping".
Security guard tries to break up players

The AFL's security fiasco hit a new low when a security guard tried to break up a fight between two players.

Of course, Kennett has made a long career out of being brazenly outspoken and many people like me have frequently disagreed with him (not least because of his Hawthorn connection). But the fact he got shouted down so quickly and so vociferously by so many holier-than-thou people is not just an unthinking curb upon his freedom of speech, but it also distracts us all from the complex issue at hand.

The issue became the inane “is Kennett being racist?” instead of the pertinent questions we all need answered: “How do we solve the difficult and complex issue of crowd behaviour?” And: “Who draws the line of what we will allow?”

Kennett stood firm ... until he didn’t, issuing an apology on Tuesday afternoon, although it’s still not clear to whom he was apologising. And is it any wonder, when he made a valid point and he rightly feels aggrieved that his freedom of speech got shut down so forcefully? It seemed like strings were being pulled behind closed doors, away from the inconvenient gaze of the general public.

Indeed, the pile-on onto Kennett echoes the suddenly overzealous crackdown on crowd behaviour.

Many of us who have been going to the footy for years are now unsure where we stand. Is there still room for passionate barracking and sarcastic (and often humorous) jeering of umpires? Is it all right to yell out (as people have been doing for decades) that an umpire is a “green maggot?” I’m prepared to nail my colours to the mast and say “yes”. Just so long as comments are about the competency, or lack thereof, of an umpire, they must be OK.

After all, a footy ground is a special place in our society where the crowd can be as much part of the action as the players. There needs to be a relaxation of the strict rules that might apply on the street or in the workplace.

But let’s also be clear that while crowds should be raucous, celebrating their team and enjoying the carnival of great athletic ability, abusive or racist behaviour directed at a player, umpire or other crowd members is never right.

That’s exactly the kind of inexcusable behaviour we need to stamp out. Piling on Kennett might make some people feel good, but it’s not solving the urgent issues at hand."

Duncan Fine is a lawyer and regular columnist for The Age.



Fair article and a good read.

[SaintPav]

If the truth be know, everyone is a racist to some extent, some more than others. As you state, some just deny it.

I don't think everyone is.

But plenty are.

Many have changed it, and some are trying to change it.

Some don't even realise they are.

But some deny it, even when told that they are.

And then there are others that refuse to change.


I actually empathise with most, except the ones that refuse to change, and the ones that deny it.

Maybe you need to stop using words incorrectly. You made a statement about those throwing the phrase "leftie" around, but you are using the exact behaviour that elicits that response.
You are misusing the word "racist". People are not being racist, they are discriminating. To be racist means to hold a belief or view that a person, or group of people, are in some way inferior or less worthy than others, or to hold a dislike/hatred of them, based purely on race. People are discriminating when they judge someone to be a new arrival to Australia, based purely on appearance.

These people are phoney lefties and fake environmentalists, particularly the s*** eating green supporters. They are fence sitters and soy boy/soy girl brainwashed drones.

[The_Dud]

I’m thinking there’s a lot of old white dudes here who have become worried not everyone bows down to their every thought anymore like they did 40 years ago.

[saynta]

If the truth be know, everyone is a racist to some extent, some more than others. As you state, some just deny it.

I don't think everyone is.

But plenty are.

Many have changed it, and some are trying to change it.

Some don't even realise they are.

But some deny it, even when told that they are.

And then there are others that refuse to change.


I actually empathise with most, except the ones that refuse to change, and the ones that deny it.

Maybe you need to stop using words incorrectly. You made a statement about those throwing the phrase "leftie" around, but you are using the exact behaviour that elicits that response.
You are misusing the word "racist". People are not being racist, they are discriminating. To be racist means to hold a belief or view that a person, or group of people, are in some way inferior or less worthy than others, or to hold a dislike/hatred of them, based purely on race. People are discriminating when they judge someone to be a new arrival to Australia, based purely on appearance.

Nail, hammer, head.

[Groovy Guru]

I’m thinking there’s a lot of old white dudes here who have become worried not everyone bows down to their every thought anymore like they did 40 years ago.

The irony in that statement is priceless.

[SaintPav]

I’m thinking there’s a lot of old white dudes here who have become worried not everyone bows down to their every thought anymore like they did 40 years ago.

Not hypocritical, much...

[The_Dud]

I’m thinking there’s a lot of old white dudes here who have become worried not everyone bows down to their every thought anymore like they did 40 years ago.

The irony in that statement is priceless.

Not really.

[The_Dud]

I’m thinking there’s a lot of old white dudes here who have become worried not everyone bows down to their every thought anymore like they did 40 years ago.

Not hypocritical, much...

Nope.

[BarryGrogan]

If the truth be know, everyone is a racist to some extent, some more than others. As you state, some just deny it.

I don't think everyone is.

But plenty are.

Many have changed it, and some are trying to change it.

Some don't even realise they are.

But some deny it, even when told that they are.

And then there are others that refuse to change.


I actually empathise with most, except the ones that refuse to change, and the ones that deny it.

You're in the ranks of those who deny they are racist then.

I haven't denied anything.

[bigcarl]

Who was that clown of a security guard who wanted to break up an on field scuffle between two players? I suspect he hadn’t been to a lot of football matches.

[saynta]

I’m thinking there’s a lot of old white dudes here who have become worried not everyone bows down to their every thought anymore like they did 40 years ago.

You have it back to front dudley. As usual.

We all know you are ageist as well, so drop off with the insults.

[The_Dud]

I’m thinking there’s a lot of old white dudes here who have become worried not everyone bows down to their every thought anymore like they did 40 years ago.

You have it back to front dudley. As usual.

We all know you are ageist as well, so drop off with the insults.

To the contrary, I think I’m pretty spot on.

And how is it ‘ageist’ to say older people are more ‘conservative’ than younger people? I’m pretty sure that’s well documented in voting patterns.

[SaintPav]

The AFL own the sport. The clubs literally gave it to them 30 odd years ago.

It's theirs. Not ours.

They make the rules. You've got to abide by them.

The old appeal to authority argument.

That usually works out well.

Priceless.

[saynta]

Who was that clown of a security guard who wanted to break up an on field scuffle between two players? I suspect he hadn’t been to a lot of football matches.

Well, I could do a Jeff and suggest that after all the game was in Tasmania.

[SaintPav]

Who was that clown of a security guard who wanted to break up an on field scuffle between two players? I suspect he hadn’t been to a lot of football matches.

That's racist.