Coff

[SaintPav]

Seriously....a 2nd year player and a 19 year old getting pillared after having to deal with a Port avalanche and half his team mates not being 100%.

Give these kids a break.

Agree 100%

i think he will be a decent footballer.

Worth pick 8 ?

Either way it's way too early to call.

I remember flogs flagellating over Lenny Hayes in his first couple of seasons saying he is too slow and just a hack... seriously, not joking unfortunately.

Naturally i was already stating he would become a superstar.

Naturally!

[saintadamski]

Seriously....a 2nd year player and a 19 year old getting pillared after having to deal with a Port avalanche and half his team mates not being 100%.

Give these kids a break.

Agree 100%

i think he will be a decent footballer.

Worth pick 8 ?

Either way it's way too early to call.

I remember flogs flagellating over Lenny Hayes in his first couple of seasons saying he is too slow and just a hack... seriously, not joking unfortunately.

Naturally i was already stating he would become a superstar.

Naturally!

Comparing Hayes to Coffield.... so this is what seeing the world through red white and black glasses looks like....

So basically, the moment any guy puts on the jumper, they are automatically elevated to the realm of gods, with every awful performance discounted as an outlier.... their 'true potential' simmering, patiently in wait for years... to suddenly explode into an eruption of unstoppable football magic.

Enough...

This is the reason why Newnes and co can continue year, year out, with pure ineptitude.

I get it though...we are all so passionate about our dearest St Kilda, we project adoration, and more importantly, hope, onto every player that dons our jumper.

Coffield is no Hayes. But I understand your desperate longing for him to be.

[Ghost Like]

WTF, people target a 19 year old, an emergency call up & asked to stop a rampaging Port midfield? I'm sorry, your idea of development is worse than the club's. That's saying something!

Port wingers began lining up on the forward side, that's how bad our mids are. Yet he's copping it. Look at the chosen spuds who week in, week out serve up varying degrees of mediocrity.

We have AFL tampons playing in our seniors, once every four weeks they are valuable but somehow they stay in there despite 3 weeks of uselessness.

<1 day ban for demeaning players>

I copped a one day ban for demeaning our players, it was crude and unnecessary so for that l apologise. This gave me time to reflect. It really is not a single players fault. The player is not responsible for when he's selected or continually selected or not selected. These problems fall to the selection committee, the coaches and the development staff. If a player continues with mediocre form or patchy form and is still selected, it is not his fault.

The form put on the paddock by individual players is their benchmark. St Kilda should be ensuring that is the worst they will play or identify kids, trades that will be better than the benchmark set by the previous player.

Richmond and Geelong did this with Miles and Horlin-Smith as two examples, replacing their positions with kids or trades they believe will be better for the club in the now and the future.

This is what we need to identify and get better at. To bastardise a phrase, "Don't hope, do!"

[DJ Higgins]

Harsh and silly post. Coffield was an emergency call up that should never have happened. Poor coaching/team selection again. The kid and I mean KID is not AFL ready yet. He may or may not make it but it's not beneficial to play him at AFL level at present.
I saw him play twice at sandy and even then he didn't stand out. Hell against pies vfl team I didn't know he was playing until half time
Bottom line is he is young and should stay in vfl for the time being. Why white wasn't selected boogles the mind

[To the top]

The game in town is to continually turn your List - whether you finish top or bottom

The reason is that improvement is required regardless - the top side to stay ahead of the pack and the lower sides to catch up

Whilst there is organic improvement as players add to their experience there is also the need to cull and recruit

Careers finish - and the production cycle sees responsibility accepted when opportunities present courtesy of age catching up with experienced players

Development can not be compromised - and opportunity needs to be given

This was the problem during the Lyon years and who was bought to the Club over development and opportunity being afforded to youth

Will all players Drafted as 18 year olds fulfil stellar careers?

No

But it is conceivable that those Drafted in the top 20 in any year will have a better chance of fulfilling stellar careers

I have put before that it is my opinion that post Lyon we had a serious demographic flaw in our List, brutally exposed with the retirements of Fisher, Riewoldt and Montagna - the last of our class players

We have only recruited Carlisle - and now Hannebery

The responsibility has fallen to 18 year olds and their development - starting from the Draft that gave us Billings, Dunstan and Acres (all still under 100 games)

And those Drafted from there particularly top 20 picks

We obviously need more experienced class if we can attract same noting the competition for these available

In the meantime we observe the development of those we have Drafted - development which is made tougher because of the absence of a core of experienced class

Our experience is Geary, Brown, Newnes so a blue collar brigade not elite AFL footballers who deliver a result with their brilliance

And that blue collar brigade needs to be replaced by potential, potential to actually be brilliant

Hence we observe to see the signs

That is where St Kilda is at in my opinion

My only observation with the Coaching is the captaincy not embracing potential brilliance and what appears to me to be playing favourites

I understand that Newnes provides over 100 games of experience and you need some experience - but Newnes is transitory for that very reason. He just fills a demographic requirement at this particular time whilst others develop and accrue experience

The sooner we are in a position to say “Thanks for the effort and commitment” to the likes of Geary, Newnes and Brown (and some others) because the likes of Clark, Coffield, King et al have surpassed them the sooner St Kilda will again be competitive in this competition

The other aside is how many St Kilda Listed players were available for Sandringham last weekend - such is the decimation of our List by unavailability

[mad saint guy]

TBH I didn't think Coffield was as bad as most are saying. 10 disposals at 100% efficiency with 3 intercepts isn't the worst thing that happened in that game. He has a way to go defensively but I think at this point he's going to get a lot more out of learning at AFL level than VFL.

[Special]

WTF, people target a 19 year old, an emergency call up & asked to stop a rampaging Port midfield? I'm sorry, your idea of development is worse than the club's. That's saying something!

Port wingers began lining up on the forward side, that's how bad our mids are. Yet he's copping it. Look at the chosen spuds who week in, week out serve up varying degrees of mediocrity.

We have AFL tampons playing in our seniors, once every four weeks they are valuable but somehow they stay in there despite 3 weeks of uselessness.

<1 day ban for demeaning players>

I copped a one day ban for demeaning our players, it was crude and unnecessary so for that l apologise. This gave me time to reflect. It really is not a single players fault. The player is not responsible for when he's selected or continually selected or not selected. These problems fall to the selection committee, the coaches and the development staff. If a player continues with mediocre form or patchy form and is still selected, it is not his fault.

The form put on the paddock by individual players is their benchmark. St Kilda should be ensuring that is the worst they will play or identify kids, trades that will be better than the benchmark set by the previous player.

Richmond and Geelong did this with Miles and Horlin-Smith as two examples, replacing their positions with kids or trades they believe will be better for the club in the now and the future.

This is what we need to identify and get better at. To bastardise a phrase, "Don't hope, do!"

It was actually quite funny and close to the truth what you called them.

Clearly Simon doesn’t have a sense of humour and wants to pander this forum to kids/PC brigade even though 95% or more that use this are middle aged men.

[saynta]

WTF, people target a 19 year old, an emergency call up & asked to stop a rampaging Port midfield? I'm sorry, your idea of development is worse than the club's. That's saying something!

Port wingers began lining up on the forward side, that's how bad our mids are. Yet he's copping it. Look at the chosen spuds who week in, week out serve up varying degrees of mediocrity.

We have AFL tampons playing in our seniors, once every four weeks they are valuable but somehow they stay in there despite 3 weeks of uselessness.

<1 day ban for demeaning players>

I copped a one day ban for demeaning our players, it was crude and unnecessary so for that l apologise. This gave me time to reflect. It really is not a single players fault. The player is not responsible for when he's selected or continually selected or not selected. These problems fall to the selection committee, the coaches and the development staff. If a player continues with mediocre form or patchy form and is still selected, it is not his fault.

The form put on the paddock by individual players is their benchmark. St Kilda should be ensuring that is the worst they will play or identify kids, trades that will be better than the benchmark set by the previous player.

Richmond and Geelong did this with Miles and Horlin-Smith as two examples, replacing their positions with kids or trades they believe will be better for the club in the now and the future.

This is what we need to identify and get better at. To bastardise a phrase, "Don't hope, do!"

It was actually quite funny and close to the truth what you called them.

Clearly Simon doesn’t have a sense of humour and wants to pander this forum to kids/PC brigade even though 95% or more that use this are middle aged men.

Really? I thought that the post was extremely offensive to the St Kilda players. Even the poster admitted that calling the players tampons was crude and offensive.

[freely]

...Clearly Simon doesn’t have a sense of humour and wants to pander this forum to kids/PC brigade even though 95% or more that use this are middle aged men.

Where are you getting that stat?

[Saintmatt]

Good point Joffa

The key to a rebuild is to find a core group of draftees and young recruits and back them in so that they develop and grow together. As you say, they must get support from senior players who will mentor them in the seniors or at VFL level.

Watters had an opportunity to do a proper rebuild and focus on developing our next successful finals squad, but he was SACKED

The senior players at that time were more interested in what was benefecial for them as individuals instead of what was beneficial for the team. That was evident on match day. Take for example, the way our captain regularly behaved when things didn't go his way during that period or when one of the younger players didn't kick it lace out to him.

If you give too much control to senior players who are close to the end of their careers, their priority will be different to the CLUB's priority. The senior players want match day payments ahead of the younger blokes. They also pushed hard for the team to try and play finals as soon as possible. Perhaps this was also unrealistic and meant coaches were not looking after the next generation or pushing the senior players hard enough to be mentors of the next generation.

I think Roo was very good as a mentor for the last 2 years of his career but prior to that he was poor. As a player and as an embassador and as a representative of the St Kilda FC he is a living legend. As captain, he was inspirational during the Lyon years, however I feel that he was not the best person for the job once we bit the bullet and had to rebuild.

You make some good points but to be fair - everything changed once Lyon left. The players who'd been together for approx. 7-10 years all of a sudden got shunted from Moorabbin to Seaford and were told by a new Senior coach that their efforts from 2009 - 2011 didnt matter because they'd not got a flag to show for it. This is a fact - I've heard it many times from different players of that era. So - the problem that St K created for itself is that they moved the club miles away from where the players lived, to a backwater. They then didn't tell the Senior players that they were going to embark on a re-build ... which Watters mentioned almost casually on radio one áfternoon. They completely disenfranchised the players who'd built the place. I don't disagree that Roo (and others of his vintage - notably Goddard) didn't have great body language until their last couple of years but there's good reasons for that.

[freely]

Good point Joffa

The key to a rebuild is to find a core group of draftees and young recruits and back them in so that they develop and grow together. As you say, they must get support from senior players who will mentor them in the seniors or at VFL level.

Watters had an opportunity to do a proper rebuild and focus on developing our next successful finals squad, but he was SACKED

The senior players at that time were more interested in what was benefecial for them as individuals instead of what was beneficial for the team. That was evident on match day. Take for example, the way our captain regularly behaved when things didn't go his way during that period or when one of the younger players didn't kick it lace out to him.

If you give too much control to senior players who are close to the end of their careers, their priority will be different to the CLUB's priority. The senior players want match day payments ahead of the younger blokes. They also pushed hard for the team to try and play finals as soon as possible. Perhaps this was also unrealistic and meant coaches were not looking after the next generation or pushing the senior players hard enough to be mentors of the next generation.

I think Roo was very good as a mentor for the last 2 years of his career but prior to that he was poor. As a player and as an embassador and as a representative of the St Kilda FC he is a living legend. As captain, he was inspirational during the Lyon years, however I feel that he was not the best person for the job once we bit the bullet and had to rebuild.

You make some good points but to be fair - everything changed once Lyon left. The players who'd been together for approx. 7-10 years all of a sudden got shunted from Moorabbin to Seaford and were told by a new Senior coach that their efforts from 2009 - 2011 didnt matter because they'd not got a flag to show for it. This is a fact - I've heard it many times from different players of that era. So - the problem that St K created for itself is that they moved the club miles away from where the players lived, to a backwater. They then didn't tell the Senior players that they were going to embark on a re-build ... which Watters mentioned almost casually on radio one áfternoon. They completely disenfranchised the players who'd built the place. I don't disagree that Roo (and others of his vintage - notably Goddard) didn't have great body language until their last couple of years but there's good reasons for that.

Agree there are reasons but not that they're good ones. Their displeasure directly resulted in the appointment of a yes-man coach. Now they've gone, but the yes-man coach remains. And although I too want to see the back of him, I can't help feeling sorry for him that it's the very qualities that were demanded at the outset ("don't rock the boat with the senior players, do whatever they want...") that have got him into this mess. He's exactly the coach that Roo and co demanded.

[fugazi]

TBH I didn't think Coffield was as bad as most are saying. 10 disposals at 100% efficiency with 3 intercepts isn't the worst thing that happened in that game. He has a way to go defensively but I think at this point he's going to get a lot more out of learning at AFL level than VFL.

Agree. He fumbled in the goalsquare at a crucial moent in the first quarter, but was good by foot.
Will be a player given some decent coaching.

[Special]

WTF, people target a 19 year old, an emergency call up & asked to stop a rampaging Port midfield? I'm sorry, your idea of development is worse than the club's. That's saying something!

Port wingers began lining up on the forward side, that's how bad our mids are. Yet he's copping it. Look at the chosen spuds who week in, week out serve up varying degrees of mediocrity.

We have AFL tampons playing in our seniors, once every four weeks they are valuable but somehow they stay in there despite 3 weeks of uselessness.

<1 day ban for demeaning players>

I copped a one day ban for demeaning our players, it was crude and unnecessary so for that l apologise. This gave me time to reflect. It really is not a single players fault. The player is not responsible for when he's selected or continually selected or not selected. These problems fall to the selection committee, the coaches and the development staff. If a player continues with mediocre form or patchy form and is still selected, it is not his fault.

The form put on the paddock by individual players is their benchmark. St Kilda should be ensuring that is the worst they will play or identify kids, trades that will be better than the benchmark set by the previous player.

Richmond and Geelong did this with Miles and Horlin-Smith as two examples, replacing their positions with kids or trades they believe will be better for the club in the now and the future.

This is what we need to identify and get better at. To bastardise a phrase, "Don't hope, do!"

It was actually quite funny and close to the truth what you called them.

Clearly Simon doesn’t have a sense of humour and wants to pander this forum to kids/PC brigade even though 95% or more that use this are middle aged men.

Really? I thought that the post was extremely offensive to the St Kilda players. Even the poster admitted that calling the players tampons was crude and offensive.

It's called dirty humour. But you're an old religious bugger so I guess I should expect no less......

[Special]

...Clearly Simon doesn’t have a sense of humour and wants to pander this forum to kids/PC brigade even though 95% or more that use this are middle aged men.

Where are you getting that stat?

There was a post asking poster's ages and where they lived.....that gave me the stat!!!

Not many youngun's bother with this site, as much as Simon would hope otherwise.....

[saynta]

WTF, people target a 19 year old, an emergency call up & asked to stop a rampaging Port midfield? I'm sorry, your idea of development is worse than the club's. That's saying something!

Port wingers began lining up on the forward side, that's how bad our mids are. Yet he's copping it. Look at the chosen spuds who week in, week out serve up varying degrees of mediocrity.

We have AFL tampons playing in our seniors, once every four weeks they are valuable but somehow they stay in there despite 3 weeks of uselessness.

<1 day ban for demeaning players>

I copped a one day ban for demeaning our players, it was crude and unnecessary so for that l apologise. This gave me time to reflect. It really is not a single players fault. The player is not responsible for when he's selected or continually selected or not selected. These problems fall to the selection committee, the coaches and the development staff. If a player continues with mediocre form or patchy form and is still selected, it is not his fault.

The form put on the paddock by individual players is their benchmark. St Kilda should be ensuring that is the worst they will play or identify kids, trades that will be better than the benchmark set by the previous player.

Richmond and Geelong did this with Miles and Horlin-Smith as two examples, replacing their positions with kids or trades they believe will be better for the club in the now and the future.

This is what we need to identify and get better at. To bastardise a phrase, "Don't hope, do!"

It was actually quite funny and close to the truth what you called them.

Clearly Simon doesn’t have a sense of humour and wants to pander this forum to kids/PC brigade even though 95% or more that use this are middle aged men.

Really? I thought that the post was extremely offensive to the St Kilda players. Even the poster admitted that calling the players tampons was crude and offensive.

It's called dirty humour. But you're an old religious bugger so I guess I should expect no less......

Not religious at. Only times I am ever in a church is to attend funerals. Not at all funny calling saints players tampons.

[Ghost Like]

WTF, people target a 19 year old, an emergency call up & asked to stop a rampaging Port midfield? I'm sorry, your idea of development is worse than the club's. That's saying something!

Port wingers began lining up on the forward side, that's how bad our mids are. Yet he's copping it. Look at the chosen spuds who week in, week out serve up varying degrees of mediocrity.

We have AFL tampons playing in our seniors, once every four weeks they are valuable but somehow they stay in there despite 3 weeks of uselessness.

<1 day ban for demeaning players>

I copped a one day ban for demeaning our players, it was crude and unnecessary so for that l apologise. This gave me time to reflect. It really is not a single players fault. The player is not responsible for when he's selected or continually selected or not selected. These problems fall to the selection committee, the coaches and the development staff. If a player continues with mediocre form or patchy form and is still selected, it is not his fault.

The form put on the paddock by individual players is their benchmark. St Kilda should be ensuring that is the worst they will play or identify kids, trades that will be better than the benchmark set by the previous player.

Richmond and Geelong did this with Miles and Horlin-Smith as two examples, replacing their positions with kids or trades they believe will be better for the club in the now and the future.

This is what we need to identify and get better at. To bastardise a phrase, "Don't hope, do!"

It was actually quite funny and close to the truth what you called them.

Clearly Simon doesn’t have a sense of humour and wants to pander this forum to kids/PC brigade even though 95% or more that use this are middle aged men.

Really? I thought that the post was extremely offensive to the St Kilda players. Even the poster admitted that calling the players tampons was crude and offensive.

It's called dirty humour. But you're an old religious bugger so I guess I should expect no less......

Not religious at. Only times I am ever in a church is to attend funerals. Not at all funny calling saints players tampons.

Each to their own Saynta in terms of what people find funny or get offended about. To be honest and I've since explained it, is was an analogy that should really have been directed at those in charge of selection. All power to the players, it's not their fault they get selected.

I could simply have said that some players are given the luxury of performing to a standard acceptable once every few weeks with seemingly no repercussions whilst kids we should be developing cop the blame and ire of some supporters as evidenced by this thread.