Reality checks

[Sanctorum]

Like any Saints supporter i was really disappointed that St Kilda was thoroughly smashed in the last quarter, despite being right in the contest in the first three.

No doubt the anti Richo crowd will be sharpening their blades even more so now, in their (what I consider unreasonable) conviction that he is the entire and sole reason for the last four losses. Get rid of Richo, they say, and this team will start to win regularly and head up the ladder....

As I have posted elsewhere on this forum recently, I don't sheet the blame to either Alan Richardson or his coaching panel, because they are not out on the paddock playing the game, a game that is always conducted under the most intense pressure imaginable.

It is informative to examine the real and undeniable factors that have contributed to the 5 losses this year, and the following statistics in today's game against Collingwood are particularly pertinent:

Average age of players: Collingwood 26.6, St Kilda 24.2
Average # of games played by the 22 players: Collingwood 123.4, St Kilda 64.6, represented by:
-50 games: Collingwood 3, St Kilda 9
50-99 games: Collingwood 6, St Kilda 8
100 - 149 games: Collingwood 7, St Kilda 3
150+ games: Collingwood 6, St Kilda 2 (and that includes Collingwood reject Nathan Brown!)

Given these stats I am in no doubt that St Kilda would have been most unlikely to cause an upset today. In the first three quarters St Kilda had considerable more entries into their forward 50 and if they had converted even half of the missed chances they would have been well in front at half time and 3/4 time.

In the end it was Collingwood's superior experience in both defence and attack that was the difference between the two teams.

As others will have posted, there are definitely some positives this year, not least the emergence of Rowan Marshall as the Saint's best big man since Ben McEvoy (he's going to be a gun), the improvement in Jack Billings, and the recruitment of some genuine AFL players in Wilkie, Parker and Young (and Hind when he gets a chance to strut his stuff), and the general improvement in many other players.

[guitars4]

Like any Saints supporter i was really disappointed that St Kilda was thoroughly smashed in the last quarter, despite being right in the contest in the first three.

No doubt the anti Richo crowd will be sharpening their blades even more so now, in their (what I consider unreasonable) conviction that he is the entire and sole reason for the last four losses. Get rid of Richo, they say, and this team will start to win regularly and head up the ladder....

As I have posted elsewhere on this forum recently, I don't sheet the blame to either Alan Richardson or his coaching panel, because they are not out on the paddock playing the game, a game that is always conducted under the most intense pressure imaginable.

It is informative to examine the real and undeniable factors that have contributed to the 5 losses this year, and the following statistics in today's game against Collingwood are particularly pertinent:

Average age of players: Collingwood 26.6, St Kilda 24.2
Average # of games played by the 22 players: Collingwood 123.4, St Kilda 64.6, represented by:
-50 games: Collingwood 3, St Kilda 9
50-99 games: Collingwood 6, St Kilda 8
100 - 149 games: Collingwood 7, St Kilda 3
150+ games: Collingwood 6, St Kilda 2 (and that includes Collingwood reject Nathan Brown!)

Given these stats I am in no doubt that St Kilda would have been most unlikely to cause an upset today. In the first three quarters St Kilda had considerable more entries into their forward 50 and if they had converted even half of the missed chances they would have been well in front at half time and 3/4 time.

In the end it was Collingwood's superior experience in both defence and attack that was the difference between the two teams.

As others will have posted, there are definitely some positives this year, not least the emergence of Rowan Marshall as the Saint's best big man since Ben McEvoy (he's going to be a gun), the improvement in Jack Billings, and the recruitment of some genuine AFL players in Wilkie, Parker and Young (and Hind when he gets a chance to strut his stuff), and the general improvement in many other players.

I agree with most of what you have said but still the same issues keep occurring year in year out , dominant for periods but can't score,poor conversion,shocking disposal into forward line,when teams get a run on no ability to stem the flow, smashed in the ruck,poor development of draft picks & I could go on but until we can resolve at least some of these issues we are never going to be a contender for a flag

[tedtheodorelogan2018]

A balanced and level headed OP for once without the hysteria following a loss or bad patch of form.

[guitars4]

A balanced and level headed OP for once without the hysteria following a loss or bad patch of form.

Give it a rest Ted it's hardly hysteria it's just pointing out what we need to do before we can be a genuine contender . You can gloss over the cracks with your annoying spin but reality is reality .

[tedtheodorelogan2018]

Rest what?
It's simply nice to read an OP where someone is being level headed and reasonable in their objectiveness about the Saints minus the hysteria and negativity that dwells all too often in the mind of some supporters.

[SaintPav]

I think a few on here need a reality check big time.

[skeptic]

Who has posted that Richo is wholly and solely to blame?

[Ape_Man]

I think a few on here need a reality check big time.

We are St Kilda supporters.

We don’t need reality checks.

[Sanctorum]

Who has posted that Richo is wholly and solely to blame?

In the past 18 months there have been quite a few SS subscribers who have made it quite plain that in their opinion Alan Richardson is the reason St Kilda are under performing, and want him sacked - he has been criticised for all sorts of issues, poor game plan, low skill levels of players, too defensive, too timid etc etc. The idea of all this being that if only the club would get rid of Richo then magically the team will start to play better and win more games.

You could fill a book with all the negative comments on this forum about St Kilda's senior coach and some of it is bordering on hatred. I am the first to acknowledge that Richo does not have a strong pubic profile, and some of his appearances on AFL 360 last year were certainly less than inspiring. But that does not mean that he is a weak or bad coach - we wouldn't know because we are not witness to what he does in the confines of the rooms before, during or after the game, we may think we do, based on how we observe him in the media, but that is just conjecture, and I am quite sure that if the players didn't respect him and disagreed with his modus operandi, then he would have been moved out a long time ago.

As much as I wanted to believe that St Kilda would finallly start to contend for finals in 2019, my analysis of the current list indicated to me that this is unlikely, especially in the absence through injury of some of the team's most expereinced players. So I have lowered my expectations and feel a lot more content watching them play every week, and at times showing promise of better days ahead...

[SaintPav]

I think a few on here need a reality check big time.

We are St Kilda supporters.

We don’t need reality checks.

Some do, some don't.

I think you know who I'm referring to.

[HardSaint]

Who has posted that Richo is wholly and solely to blame?

In the past 18 months there have been quite a few SS subscribers who have made it quite plain that in their opinion Alan Richardson is the reason St Kilda are under performing, and want him sacked - he has been criticised for all sorts of issues, poor game plan, low skill levels of players, too defensive, too timid etc etc. The idea of all this being that if only the club would get rid of Richo then magically the team will start to play better and win more games.

You could fill a book with all the negative comments on this forum about St Kilda's senior coach and some of it is bordering on hatred. I am the first to acknowledge that Richo does not have a strong pubic profile, and some of his appearances on AFL 360 last year were certainly less than inspiring. But that does not mean that he is a weak or bad coach - we wouldn't know because we are not witness to what he does in the confines of the rooms before, during or after the game, we may think we do, based on how we observe him in the media, but that is just conjecture, and I am quite sure that if the players didn't respect him and disagreed with his modus operandi, then he would have been moved out a long time ago.

As much as I wanted to believe that St Kilda would finallly start to contend for finals in 2019, my analysis of the current list indicated to me that this is unlikely, especially in the absence through injury of some of the team's most expereinced players. So I have lowered my expectations and feel a lot more content watching them play every week, and at times showing promise of better days ahead...

so you think Richo's the right man for the job next year if we dont make finals this year?

You'd give him the benefit of the doubt?

[skeptic]

Who has posted that Richo is wholly and solely to blame?

In the past 18 months there have been quite a few SS subscribers who have made it quite plain that in their opinion Alan Richardson is the reason St Kilda are under performing, and want him sacked - he has been criticised for all sorts of issues, poor game plan, low skill levels of players, too defensive, too timid etc etc. The idea of all this being that if only the club would get rid of Richo then magically the team will start to play better and win more games.

You could fill a book with all the negative comments on this forum about St Kilda's senior coach and some of it is bordering on hatred. I am the first to acknowledge that Richo does not have a strong pubic profile, and some of his appearances on AFL 360 last year were certainly less than inspiring. But that does not mean that he is a weak or bad coach - we wouldn't know because we are not witness to what he does in the confines of the rooms before, during or after the game, we may think we do, based on how we observe him in the media, but that is just conjecture, and I am quite sure that if the players didn't respect him and disagreed with his modus operandi, then he would have been moved out a long time ago.

As much as I wanted to believe that St Kilda would finallly start to contend for finals in 2019, my analysis of the current list indicated to me that this is unlikely, especially in the absence through injury of some of the team's most expereinced players. So I have lowered my expectations and feel a lot more content watching them play every week, and at times showing promise of better days ahead...

I’m certainly not doubting that Richo has been heavily criticised... I certainly am amongst the harshest. However, I’ve read few posts that put the blame exclusively on him...
Certainly recruiting, injuries and issues with resources have contributed and I doubt anyone denies/d this.

The critics say that even factoring those things in, he’s still been really bad

[Ape_Man]

I think a few on here need a reality check big time.

We are St Kilda supporters.

We don’t need reality checks.

Some do, some don't.

I think you know who I'm referring to.

I believe that everyone here that has an opinion should be free to share it.

The great thing about looking to the future is potential. It can be light, or dark, or anything in between.

It’s Schrödinger’s cat. We can’t know.

Yes, we can all make educated calls based on what we’ve seen. It is pretty easy.

What is hard is understanding that other people can have different views to our own.

It shouldn’t become a fight, or a need to bend someone to our will. It should be a discussion, a debate and, sometimes, an argument. But rarely a time to ridicule ones thoughts because that are different to you own.

We are united in only one way, but it is a significant one. It should be a fantastic ground for respect, not ridicule.

[guitars4]

Who has posted that Richo is wholly and solely to blame?

In the past 18 months there have been quite a few SS subscribers who have made it quite plain that in their opinion Alan Richardson is the reason St Kilda are under performing, and want him sacked - he has been criticised for all sorts of issues, poor game plan, low skill levels of players, too defensive, too timid etc etc. The idea of all this being that if only the club would get rid of Richo then magically the team will start to play better and win more games.

You could fill a book with all the negative comments on this forum about St Kilda's senior coach and some of it is bordering on hatred. I am the first to acknowledge that Richo does not have a strong pubic profile, and some of his appearances on AFL 360 last year were certainly less than inspiring. But that does not mean that he is a weak or bad coach - we wouldn't know because we are not witness to what he does in the confines of the rooms before, during or after the game, we may think we do, based on how we observe him in the media, but that is just conjecture, and I am quite sure that if the players didn't respect him and disagreed with his modus operandi, then he would have been moved out a long time ago.

As much as I wanted to believe that St Kilda would finallly start to contend for finals in 2019, my analysis of the current list indicated to me that this is unlikely, especially in the absence through injury of some of the team's most expereinced players. So I have lowered my expectations and feel a lot more content watching them play every week, and at times showing promise of better days ahead...

Hopefully better day's ahead but even a change of coach is not going to get us to a level required because our list is not good enough yet. We are still 2 or 3 years away from being a team that can consistently challenge every team home or away IMO. It will all start from changing the head coach create a whole different strategy for selecting & developing new talent . This year has been ok with mature aged players but we need the draft picks to be more productive earlier than most club's because we are not a destination club which makes it hard to attract ready made suitors .We have been really poor in the draft selection & development too long so that will be the new coaches/coaching staffs main objective IMO.

[Ape_Man]

I think a few on here need a reality check big time.

We are St Kilda supporters.

We don’t need reality checks.

Some do, some don't.

I think you know who I'm referring to.

I believe that everyone here that has an opinion should be free to share it.

The great thing about looking to the future is potential. It can be light, or dark, or anything in between.

It’s Schrödinger’s cat. We can’t know.

Yes, we can all make educated calls based on what we’ve seen. It is pretty easy.

What is hard is understanding that other people can have different views to our own.

It shouldn’t become a fight, or a need to bend someone to our will. It should be a discussion, a debate and, sometimes, an argument. But rarely a time to ridicule ones thoughts because that are different to you own.

We are united in only one way, but it is a significant one. It should be a fantastic ground for respect, not ridicule.

Going to quote myself here as I have just absolutely jumped on someone’s opinion in the match thread.

Just in case anyone calls me out as a hypocrite.

I guess we all have lines we don’t want crossed.

[Moods]

Like any Saints supporter i was really disappointed that St Kilda was thoroughly smashed in the last quarter, despite being right in the contest in the first three.

No doubt the anti Richo crowd will be sharpening their blades even more so now, in their (what I consider unreasonable) conviction that he is the entire and sole reason for the last four losses. Get rid of Richo, they say, and this team will start to win regularly and head up the ladder....

As I have posted elsewhere on this forum recently, I don't sheet the blame to either Alan Richardson or his coaching panel, because they are not out on the paddock playing the game, a game that is always conducted under the most intense pressure imaginable.

It is informative to examine the real and undeniable factors that have contributed to the 5 losses this year, and the following statistics in today's game against Collingwood are particularly pertinent:

Average age of players: Collingwood 26.6, St Kilda 24.2
Average # of games played by the 22 players: Collingwood 123.4, St Kilda 64.6, represented by:
-50 games: Collingwood 3, St Kilda 9
50-99 games: Collingwood 6, St Kilda 8
100 - 149 games: Collingwood 7, St Kilda 3
150+ games: Collingwood 6, St Kilda 2 (and that includes Collingwood reject Nathan Brown!)

Given these stats I am in no doubt that St Kilda would have been most unlikely to cause an upset today. In the first three quarters St Kilda had considerable more entries into their forward 50 and if they had converted even half of the missed chances they would have been well in front at half time and 3/4 time.

In the end it was Collingwood's superior experience in both defence and attack that was the difference between the two teams.

As others will have posted, there are definitely some positives this year, not least the emergence of Rowan Marshall as the Saint's best big man since Ben McEvoy (he's going to be a gun), the improvement in Jack Billings, and the recruitment of some genuine AFL players in Wilkie, Parker and Young (and Hind when he gets a chance to strut his stuff), and the general improvement in many other players.

I agree with most of what you have said but still the same issues keep occurring year in year out , dominant for periods but can't score,poor conversion,shocking disposal into forward line,when teams get a run on no ability to stem the flow, smashed in the ruck,poor development of draft picks & I could go on but until we can resolve at least some of these issues we are never going to be a contender for a flag

Completely agree G4. I left the G today bitterly disappointed. Not because we lost (I didn't expect to win) but when the game was up for grabs we capitulated. Didn't even provide a whimper. We should have been 5 goals up at 3/4 time, not a goal down. All that tells me is that the same problems are still apparent. Can't kick for goal when we really need to (First half was bordering on embarrassment in this department) not clean with the ball, etc etc. Collingwood were playing poorly today. they gave us EVERY chance to win that game. Then the same ole Saints turned up in the last. they got a run on and before you knew it we were 5 x goals down! Losing by 7 goals to a team that was missing their key back, best fwd (and player) plus several other players was a missed opportunity. I know we have players out as well, but I would rather the loss to Freo at the start of the year. At least we fought it out interstate.

[Sanctorum]

In response to HardSaints question: "so you think Richo's the right man for the job next year if we dont make finals this year?

You'd give him the benefit of the doubt?", I would say that this is entirely a matter for consideration by the club - neither my nor any other member's or supporter's opinion is going to make the slightest difference - we can think what we like but this is entirely a matter for consideration by the club. As recently as February this year the new club President, Andrew Bassat, gave a full endorsement of Richo as senior coach so it is extremely unlikely that the Board will change its view on this any time soon.

That is not to say that Richo will survive beyond 2019 if the Saints fail to win at least another 5 or 6 games, but that remains to be seen.

In the meantime, I am quite satisfied that the 2019 Saints team is doing better than the 2018 version and feel that overall they're on the right track.