Sam Rowe might be on the cards

[stonecold]

I don’t get it.

We are not going to play finals let alone contend this year.
Why not go with guys on the list and get some Game into them.

I get Marsh, but Rowe?

1 year at best from Rowe, in a bottom 4 team is potentially just taking Game time away from a developing player.

You don't develop players at AFL level when they are not ready, you develop them at Sandy!!!!!

Young developing players need a mixture of both AFL and VFL games, this is how they develop best, simple really!!!!!

So you agree with me.

If Rowe plays a younger defender like Austin plays VFL.
If Rowe doesn't play Austin may play a mix of AFL & VFL.

As you write above they need a mix of both grades to develop so lets forget Rowe and rotate our young defenders through the VFL & AFL.

Agreement

No I don't agree, your highlights don't mean that people agree with you!!!!!

That is surely some type of bullying on your behalf!!!!!

[saintspremiers]

In Rowe they have gone for someone who is suitable to play immediately at a key back. Given our injuries we need this.

I'm less concerned with how we fare this year than how we fare over the next few years.

There were better options. Much better options. We've picked this guy, who, by his own admission, wasn't even trying to stay in the AFL system.

It might have cost us a game, maybe two, if we went with a longer-term prospect.

Tyler Keital, probably the unluckiest 23 yo in the country - 196 cm, 94 kg - who can play FB or FF and has made the WA Team of the Season three times would surely have been a better punt.

I've mentioned a few names in different posts now, which suggests to me that we panicked in making a call, rather than evaluating all the options in a calm, balanced and thoughtful manner that will ultimately help the football club over a longer period.

Anyway, the club has entrusted James Gallagher and Alan Richardson to make these calls. We can review them in the coming years to see who was right.

As for supplementary list addictions - give how last minute it was and how it’s a new thing I don’t think we can be overly judgy with whom we pick up.

Rowe is not ideal I agree - but without time it’s hard to make a “perfect fit” addition.

My Carlton rellies and my Blues mate from the gym tell me that Rowe is alright and better than what key backmen we have left.

My Carlton mates think Rowe is a dud and was gifted several seasons due to his cancer battles.

[magnifisaint]

In Rowe they have gone for someone who is suitable to play immediately at a key back. Given our injuries we need this.

I'm less concerned with how we fare this year than how we fare over the next few years.

There were better options. Much better options. We've picked this guy, who, by his own admission, wasn't even trying to stay in the AFL system.

It might have cost us a game, maybe two, if we went with a longer-term prospect.

Tyler Keital, probably the unluckiest 23 yo in the country - 196 cm, 94 kg - who can play FB or FF and has made the WA Team of the Season three times would surely have been a better punt.

I've mentioned a few names in different posts now, which suggests to me that we panicked in making a call, rather than evaluating all the options in a calm, balanced and thoughtful manner that will ultimately help the football club over a longer period.

Anyway, the club has entrusted James Gallagher and Alan Richardson to make these calls. We can review them in the coming years to see who was right.

As for supplementary list addictions - give how last minute it was and how it’s a new thing I don’t think we can be overly judgy with whom we pick up.

Rowe is not ideal I agree - but without time it’s hard to make a “perfect fit” addition.

My Carlton rellies and my Blues mate from the gym tell me that Rowe is alright and better than what key backmen we have left.

My Carlton mates think Rowe is a dud and was gifted several seasons due to his cancer battles.

What a load of shite!

[evertonfc]

Tyler Keital, probably the unluckiest 23 yo in the country - 196 cm, 94 kg - who can play FB or FF and has made the WA Team of the Season three times would surely have been a better punt.

Serious question, why surely?

Because Keital is 23 and looking like a late bloomer. But he's far from the only option.

Sam Rowe is 31 and was really to settle down in suburban footy after being delisted by one of the worst sides I've ever seen. Delisted by a team so they could pick up a player who we delisted, whilst we're at it.

I have stated elsewhere that he is widely commended as a "good bloke" and that I hope he can mentor our younger key defenders.

At only 94kg Keital would seem to offer what we already had on the list in Joyce, Austin, Wilkie, arguably even Coffield and just recently Marsh.

I hate to be the bearer of bad news...

Sam Rowe is 94 kgs.

[evertonfc]

I'm less concerned with how we fare this year than how we fare over the next few years.

There were better options. Much better options. We've picked this guy, who, by his own admission, wasn't even trying to stay in the AFL system.

It might have cost us a game, maybe two, if we went with a longer-term prospect.

Tyler Keital, probably the unluckiest 23 yo in the country - 196 cm, 94 kg - who can play FB or FF and has made the WA Team of the Season three times would surely have been a better punt.

I've mentioned a few names in different posts now, which suggests to me that we panicked in making a call, rather than evaluating all the options in a calm, balanced and thoughtful manner that will ultimately help the football club over a longer period.

Anyway, the club has entrusted James Gallagher and Alan Richardson to make these calls. We can review them in the coming years to see who was right.

I've enjoyed reading your perspicaious analysis and intelligent assessment of the situation.
If only the actual employees of the football club had as much perspicacity as yourself on these matters.

Thank you, Aussie Jonestown. I'm not one for blind loyalty - heaven knows this club has enough of that - but I do believe in cautioned and reasoned thinking on matters like these.

Hopefully I'm wrong and Sam can play several great years for the Saints.

[takeaway]

I'm less concerned with how we fare this year than how we fare over the next few years.

There were better options. Much better options. We've picked this guy, who, by his own admission, wasn't even trying to stay in the AFL system.

It might have cost us a game, maybe two, if we went with a longer-term prospect.

Tyler Keital, probably the unluckiest 23 yo in the country - 196 cm, 94 kg - who can play FB or FF and has made the WA Team of the Season three times would surely have been a better punt.

I've mentioned a few names in different posts now, which suggests to me that we panicked in making a call, rather than evaluating all the options in a calm, balanced and thoughtful manner that will ultimately help the football club over a longer period.

Anyway, the club has entrusted James Gallagher and Alan Richardson to make these calls. We can review them in the coming years to see who was right.

I've enjoyed reading your perspicaious analysis and intelligent assessment of the situation.
If only the actual employees of the football club had as much perspicacity as yourself on these matters.

Thank you, Aussie Jonestown. I'm not one for blind loyalty - heaven knows this club has enough of that - but I do believe in cautioned and reasoned thinking on matters like these.

Hopefully I'm wrong and Sam can play several great years for the Saints.

I don't think he was signed to play several great years at the Saints, just fill in this year being a seasoned KPD, but you never know may play next year. He is currently 100kg, needs to lose a couple. Better fit imo for the situation than Keital. We have enough Keital types.

[Scollop]

I'm less concerned with how we fare this year than how we fare over the next few years.

There were better options. Much better options. We've picked this guy, who, by his own admission, wasn't even trying to stay in the AFL system.

It might have cost us a game, maybe two, if we went with a longer-term prospect.

Tyler Keital, probably the unluckiest 23 yo in the country - 196 cm, 94 kg - who can play FB or FF and has made the WA Team of the Season three times would surely have been a better punt.

I've mentioned a few names in different posts now, which suggests to me that we panicked in making a call, rather than evaluating all the options in a calm, balanced and thoughtful manner that will ultimately help the football club over a longer period.

Anyway, the club has entrusted James Gallagher and Alan Richardson to make these calls. We can review them in the coming years to see who was right.

I've enjoyed reading your perspicaious analysis and intelligent assessment of the situation.
If only the actual employees of the football club had as much perspicacity as yourself on these matters.

Thank you, Aussie Jonestown. I'm not one for blind loyalty - heaven knows this club has enough of that - but I do believe in cautioned and reasoned thinking on matters like these.

Hopefully I'm wrong and Sam can play several great years for the Saints.

I don't think he was signed to play several great years at the Saints, just fill in this year being a seasoned KPD, but you never know may play next year. He is currently 100kg, needs to lose a couple. Better fit imo for the situation than Keital. We have enough Keital types.

I still don't get it. Let's assume that Carlisle and Robbo are fit. Do St Kilda still recruit guys like Marsh and Rowe? Probably not. So ok, who is Marsh replacing and who is Rowe replacing?

If the answer is that the backline is readgusted so players have different roles now to what Jake and Dyl use to play, that doesn't make sense. You can't change the game style or the game plan that drastically after training a certain way all preseason.

So, I ask the question agains? Who is Marsh replacing when he plays seniors and what role does he play and who is Rowe replacing when he plays seniors and what role does he play? If Rowe is only replacing Brown when Nath is injured it's a dumb recruitment option. N.B.** Read my next post before you rush to reply to this one

[saintsRrising]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news...

Sam Rowe is 94 kgs.

I prefer accurate news.

Sam Rowe is 98Kg. Or at least that is his playing weight.

https://www.carltonfc.com.au/player-profile/sam-rowe

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pp- ... --sam-rowe

[Scollop]

I don’t get it.

We are not going to play finals let alone contend this year.
Why not go with guys on the list and get some Game into them.

I get Marsh, but Rowe?

1 year at best from Rowe, in a bottom 4 team is potentially just taking Game time away from a developing player.

You don't develop players at AFL level when they are not ready, you develop them at Sandy!!!!!

Young developing players need a mixture of both AFL and VFL games, this is how they develop best, simple really!!!!!

Who is not ready? Name them

Does Logan Austin, Brandon White, Nick Coffield and Callum Wilkie need more games at State level to prove they are good enough to fill a role in defense? I'd rather see Joyce in defense with Marsh and Brown rather than Rowe taking his place. Bailey Rice also needs more experience at AFL level if we are going to make a call on him long term

Fact is we don't have a lot of 18-19 year olds on our list. The two guys we picked up in the National draft don't count because they won't play in defense and their coming off injuries so unlikely to play much if any seniors in 2019. We have picked up mature agers who have already proven themselves at State level in the VFL, WAFL or SANFL. Repeat - The reason we recruited them was that they have proven themselves at State level They now need to get experience in the AFL or the decision to recruit them was another mistake by the Saints

How many stodgy defensive KP defenders does a team need? How many did Richmond, The Bulldogs or West Coast have in their teams the years they they won flags? How many did the Hawks carry? Was Mat Scarlett a 95-100 Kg beast? If you are not going to have two stoppers in your team in 3-4 years time or when we are contenders, what is the point of having them now or trying to 'develop' a game style with 2 stoppers in your defense?

[takeaway]

I don’t get it.

We are not going to play finals let alone contend this year.
Why not go with guys on the list and get some Game into them.

I get Marsh, but Rowe?

1 year at best from Rowe, in a bottom 4 team is potentially just taking Game time away from a developing player.

You don't develop players at AFL level when they are not ready, you develop them at Sandy!!!!!

Young developing players need a mixture of both AFL and VFL games, this is how they develop best, simple really!!!!!

Who is not ready? Name them

Does Logan Austin, Brandon White, Nick Coffield and Callum Wilkie need more games at State level to prove they are good enough to fill a role in defense? I'd rather see Joyce in defense with Marsh and Brown rather than Rowe taking his place. Bailey Rice also needs more experience at AFL level if we are going to make a call on him long term

Fact is we don't have a lot of 18-19 year olds on our list. The two guys we picked up in the National draft don't count because they won't play in defense and their coming off injuries so unlikely to play much if any seniors in 2019. We have picked up mature agers who have already proven themselves at State level in the VFL, WAFL or SANFL. Repeat - The reason we recruited them was that they have proven themselves at State level They now need to get experience in the AFL or the decision to recruit them was another mistake by the Saints

How many stodgy defensive KP defenders does a team need? How many did Richmond, The Bulldogs or West Coast have in their teams the years they they won flags? How many did the Hawks carry? Was Mat Scarlett a 95-100 Kg beast? If you are not going to have two stoppers in your team in 3-4 years time or when we are contenders, what is the point of having them now or trying to 'develop' a game style with 2 stoppers in your defense?

You are assuming that Brown and Rowe will both be in the 22. I doubt that, except if the opposition plays 2 gorilla forwards, which may even occur more often with the new rules. Carlisle played essentially an intercept role but if needed could play on the big boys, without him perhaps Joyce might be Ok, but we really only have Brown in that role, and plenty of lighter, more mobile backs. Hence Rowe. Sensible move imo.

[Rocket]

Didn’t Rowe finish top 10 in Blues B&F last year ? Read this somewhere.

Yes ... before you say it, it was at Carlton. But still Top 10 finish at any AFL club says you can play. Not bad considering he came off an ACL 2017.

I’m tipping Gallagher has run the stats and shows he was the best going around for what we needed given circumstances. He must have a decent record playing on gorillas.

[stonecold]

I don’t get it.

We are not going to play finals let alone contend this year.
Why not go with guys on the list and get some Game into them.

I get Marsh, but Rowe?

1 year at best from Rowe, in a bottom 4 team is potentially just taking Game time away from a developing player.

You don't develop players at AFL level when they are not ready, you develop them at Sandy!!!!!

Young developing players need a mixture of both AFL and VFL games, this is how they develop best, simple really!!!!!

Who is not ready? Name them

Does Logan Austin, Brandon White, Nick Coffield and Callum Wilkie need more games at State level to prove they are good enough to fill a role in defense? I'd rather see Joyce in defense with Marsh and Brown rather than Rowe taking his place. Bailey Rice also needs more experience at AFL level if we are going to make a call on him long term

Fact is we don't have a lot of 18-19 year olds on our list. The two guys we picked up in the National draft don't count because they won't play in defense and their coming off injuries so unlikely to play much if any seniors in 2019. We have picked up mature agers who have already proven themselves at State level in the VFL, WAFL or SANFL. Repeat - The reason we recruited them was that they have proven themselves at State level They now need to get experience in the AFL or the decision to recruit them was another mistake by the Saints

How many stodgy defensive KP defenders does a team need? How many did Richmond, The Bulldogs or West Coast have in their teams the years they they won flags? How many did the Hawks carry? Was Mat Scarlett a 95-100 Kg beast? If you are not going to have two stoppers in your team in 3-4 years time or when we are contenders, what is the point of having them now or trying to 'develop' a game style with 2 stoppers in your defense?

Are Battle and Joyce ready for full seasons in an AFL back line, more than likely, no, not a full season!!!!!

Are Austin and Clavarino ready for full seasons in AFL, no!!!!!

The workload will be shared with Marsh and to a lesser extent Rowe!!!!!

It's a no brainer really, just ask the club!!!!!

Thus the recruitments, we rest our case!!!!!

[Scollop]

"we rest our case"

The "we" being the apologists for all the decisions which will turn out to hurt the club in the long run.

There is a theme from you blokes of opinions masquerading as logic. If a bloke like Brown or Rowe (or most of our senior players for that matter) can play the whole season, what makes you think a bloke like Battle isn't ready.

I'd bet my balls if the coach said to him; "Son, I want you to prepare yourself each week to play in the seniors. I've got confidence that you have what it takes to be part of this club's future" that Josh would accept the challenge and be capable of playing each week

[saynta]

I'm less concerned with how we fare this year than how we fare over the next few years.

There were better options. Much better options. We've picked this guy, who, by his own admission, wasn't even trying to stay in the AFL system.

It might have cost us a game, maybe two, if we went with a longer-term prospect.

Tyler Keital, probably the unluckiest 23 yo in the country - 196 cm, 94 kg - who can play FB or FF and has made the WA Team of the Season three times would surely have been a better punt.

I've mentioned a few names in different posts now, which suggests to me that we panicked in making a call, rather than evaluating all the options in a calm, balanced and thoughtful manner that will ultimately help the football club over a longer period.

Anyway, the club has entrusted James Gallagher and Alan Richardson to make these calls. We can review them in the coming years to see who was right.

I've enjoyed reading your perspicaious analysis and intelligent assessment of the situation.
If only the actual employees of the football club had as much perspicacity as yourself on these matters.

Thank you, Aussie Jonestown. I'm not one for blind loyalty - heaven knows this club has enough of that - but I do believe in cautioned and reasoned thinking on matters like these.

Hopefully I'm wrong and Sam can play several great years for the Saints.

Well, one at least.

[Scollop]

stonecold,

You mentioned 4 blokes. Bet you they themselves would say they'd be ready. Bet you Brandon White and a few others who are regularly playing for Sandringham would love more opportunities.

Marsh was a good recruitment decision and hopefully he has a long career with us. I love what he brings because he is not just a stopper. One thing that is lost on some is that the game has changed and long gone are the days of a powerful stay at home stodgy Full Forward. They are useless against a mobile forward like Jack Roo or Darling or Gunston or Buddy. I'd rather we give games to our younger blokes rather than play Rowe in the seniors

[takeaway]

"we rest our case"

The "we" being the apologists for all the decisions which will turn out to hurt the club in the long run.

There is a theme from you blokes of opinions masquerading as logic. If a bloke like Brown or Rowe (or most of our senior players for that matter) can play the whole season, what makes you think a bloke like Battle isn't ready.

I'd bet my balls if the coach said to him; "Son, I want you to prepare yourself each week to play in the seniors. I've got confidence that you have what it takes to be part of this club's future" that Josh would accept the challenge and be capable of playing each week

That would be great if Josh Battle "accepts the challenge" and becomes a regular. He also might be needed on the forward line. At this stage, at 193cm and about 90kg, and just starting to learn the backline caper, I wouldn't fancy playing him on a big forward or resting ruckman, which might occur more often this year with the rules.
"opinions masquerading as logic"?? Interesting.

[Scollop]

What is it with this fascination regarding their weight? What did Matty Scarlett weigh? What did Andrew Mackie weigh?

There's a guy called Dylan Grimes who goes alright. What's his playing weight again?

[saynta]

"we rest our case"

The "we" being the apologists for all the decisions which will turn out to hurt the club in the long run.

There is a theme from you blokes of opinions masquerading as logic. If a bloke like Brown or Rowe (or most of our senior players for that matter) can play the whole season, what makes you think a bloke like Battle isn't ready.

I'd bet my balls if the coach said to him; "Son, I want you to prepare yourself each week to play in the seniors. I've got confidence that you have what it takes to be part of this club's future" that Josh would accept the challenge and be capable of playing each week

That would be great if Josh Battle "accepts the challenge" and becomes a regular. He also might be needed on the forward line. At this stage, at 193cm and about 90kg, and just starting to learn the backline caper, I wouldn't fancy playing him on a big forward or resting ruckman, which might occur more often this year with the rules.
"opinions masquerading as logic"?? Interesting.

92kgs according to official AFL records.

[Joffa Burns]

I don’t get it.

We are not going to play finals let alone contend this year.
Why not go with guys on the list and get some Game into them.

I get Marsh, but Rowe?

1 year at best from Rowe, in a bottom 4 team is potentially just taking Game time away from a developing player.

You don't develop players at AFL level when they are not ready, you develop them at Sandy!!!!!

Young developing players need a mixture of both AFL and VFL games, this is how they develop best, simple really!!!!!

Who is not ready? Name them

Does Logan Austin, Brandon White, Nick Coffield and Callum Wilkie need more games at State level to prove they are good enough to fill a role in defense? I'd rather see Joyce in defense with Marsh and Brown rather than Rowe taking his place. Bailey Rice also needs more experience at AFL level if we are going to make a call on him long term

Fact is we don't have a lot of 18-19 year olds on our list. The two guys we picked up in the National draft don't count because they won't play in defense and their coming off injuries so unlikely to play much if any seniors in 2019. We have picked up mature agers who have already proven themselves at State level in the VFL, WAFL or SANFL. Repeat - The reason we recruited them was that they have proven themselves at State level They now need to get experience in the AFL or the decision to recruit them was another mistake by the Saints

How many stodgy defensive KP defenders does a team need? How many did Richmond, The Bulldogs or West Coast have in their teams the years they they won flags? How many did the Hawks carry? Was Mat Scarlett a 95-100 Kg beast? If you are not going to have two stoppers in your team in 3-4 years time or when we are contenders, what is the point of having them now or trying to 'develop' a game style with 2 stoppers in your defense?

The next question is how many gorilla key forwards or likely match ups are there in the league for Brown & Rowe, god forbid we ever go into a match with both of them in the team.

Most of the key forwards in this era are tall and mobile & don't suit Rowes style of play.

The one query is the 6-6-6 rule.
It will certainly give more of a one on one or two on two marking contest in the forward 50 from a centre break or stopage so this might be the rationale in thinking we need more KPP back coverage.

[takeaway]

What is it with this fascination regarding their weight? What did Matty Scarlett weigh? What did Andrew Mackie weigh?

There's a guy called Dylan Grimes who goes alright. What's his playing weight again?

And height. Scarlett was a great player who also had Lonergan & Taylor alongside him to take the big boys/ruckmen if needed. Mackie & Grimes were not really played as KPD (Mackie was on the wing a lot), Grimes had Rance & Astbury. They are more like Austin, White, etc
Different beasts in many ways. Rowe is a reserve KPD, and I am glad we have one. Anyway, each to their own views.

[takeaway]

I don’t get it.

We are not going to play finals let alone contend this year.
Why not go with guys on the list and get some Game into them.

I get Marsh, but Rowe?

1 year at best from Rowe, in a bottom 4 team is potentially just taking Game time away from a developing player.

You don't develop players at AFL level when they are not ready, you develop them at Sandy!!!!!

Young developing players need a mixture of both AFL and VFL games, this is how they develop best, simple really!!!!!

Who is not ready? Name them

Does Logan Austin, Brandon White, Nick Coffield and Callum Wilkie need more games at State level to prove they are good enough to fill a role in defense? I'd rather see Joyce in defense with Marsh and Brown rather than Rowe taking his place. Bailey Rice also needs more experience at AFL level if we are going to make a call on him long term

Fact is we don't have a lot of 18-19 year olds on our list. The two guys we picked up in the National draft don't count because they won't play in defense and their coming off injuries so unlikely to play much if any seniors in 2019. We have picked up mature agers who have already proven themselves at State level in the VFL, WAFL or SANFL. Repeat - The reason we recruited them was that they have proven themselves at State level They now need to get experience in the AFL or the decision to recruit them was another mistake by the Saints

How many stodgy defensive KP defenders does a team need? How many did Richmond, The Bulldogs or West Coast have in their teams the years they they won flags? How many did the Hawks carry? Was Mat Scarlett a 95-100 Kg beast? If you are not going to have two stoppers in your team in 3-4 years time or when we are contenders, what is the point of having them now or trying to 'develop' a game style with 2 stoppers in your defense?

The next question is how many gorilla key forwards or likely match ups are there in the league for Brown & Rowe, god forbid we ever go into a match with both of them in the team.

Most of the key forwards in this era are tall and mobile & don't suit Rowes style of play.

The one query is the 6-6-6 rule.
It will certainly give more of a one on one or two on two marking contest in the forward 50 from a centre break or stopage so this might be the rationale in thinking we need more KPP back coverage.

Exactly. You may find a lot of teams playing 2 rucks now, with the second ruck appearing more often on the forward line than previous years. I agree only in certain circumstances would we have Brown and Rowe in the 22.

[shanegrambeau]

Perhaps Brown himself was being considered as a fringe player for '19 until these latest setbacks? Now he is necessary as so therefore a fella like Rowe is the backup. One other thing - Rowe did alright as a forward too, not being a permanent gorilla back until about 2015. And finally, perhaps our wonky ruck stocks had something to do with it too. Played as a ruck/forward in junior footy.

[saintsRrising]

Perhaps Brown himself was being considered as a fringe player for '19 until these latest setbacks? Now he is necessary as so therefore a fella like Rowe is the backup. One other thing - Rowe did alright as a forward too, not being a permanent gorilla back until about 2015. And finally, perhaps our wonky ruck stocks had something to do with it too. Played as a ruck/forward in junior footy.

With Brown, his contract gave him the right to exercise a clause to extend his contract by one year and to play on this year.

[mad saint guy]

Given our current list management I just thought I'd throw together a potential 2020 premiership starting 18 that Richo could have in mind

B: Geary, Brown, Carlisle
HB: Savage, Rowe, Webster
C: Hannebery, Armitage, Newnes
HF: Kent, Bruce, Young
F: Lonie, McCartin, Parker

Foll: Longer, Steven, Dunstan


Very strong at the contest

[shanegrambeau]

Given our current list management I just thought I'd throw together a potential 2020 premiership starting 18 that Richo could have in mind

B: Geary, Brown, Carlisle
HB: Savage, Rowe, Webster
C: Hannebery, Armitage, Newnes
HF: Kent, Bruce, Young
F: Lonie, McCartin, Parker

Foll: Longer, Steven, Dunstan

Very strong at the contest

That list is too good for just AFL. With one or two minor tweaks, say Geary to full forward, Hannebery to the ruck, it's good enough to win the English Premier League, the NBL, UEFA cup and the National Lifesaving Championships .

Come on Saints!