Umpiring - ask the question Richo

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Re: Umpiring - ask the question Richo

Post: # 1776682Post samuraisaint »

saynta wrote: Sun 10 Mar 2019 8:18pm 40 frees to 14 and that is official. WTF!!!!!!!


It was the ones not paid to us that hurt.,

The poor Irish guy got monsterd for no result. He could have been killed for all the maggots cared.
He definitely should've got a free for the time he stood and waited for the footy, went for the mark and got absolutely cleaned up by all and sundry; yes.

Marshall also should've got one for being clearly ragdolled in a ruck contest - pulled sideways by the neck it looked like - so that in the end neither ruckman could contest the ruck duel.

However, I saw a lot of high tackles - from Geary, and others which we need to get out of our game. Some of the younger players were tackling the Bulldogs forwards and falling in to their backs when the player was brought down. That is just technique. Another thing I saw is our player allowing their opponent they were tackling to wriggle free, so that in the end they were holding them by their legs - in effect, a trip.

These are things that need to get coached out of our game, because these frees are teams like Hawthorn's and West Coast's bread and butter.

I want us to finally start playing smart footy and start leaving interstate and tough to win at venues walking away with the four points and a smile rather than potting the umpires. I have done it plenty of times in the past myself, but there's no percentage in it, and at the end of the day there can sometimes be very little difference in winning and losing a game.

There's a reason why Hawthorn invited an umpire up to the Hawk's preseason interstate - find out what the rules and their interpretations are, and coach to win within them. Simples.


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Re: Umpiring - ask the question Richo

Post: # 1776683Post tedtheodorelogan2018 »

Umps smashed us today! s*** happens I guess.


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Re: Umpiring - ask the question Richo

Post: # 1776685Post samuraisaint »

tedtheodorelogan2018 wrote: Sun 10 Mar 2019 9:55pm Umps smashed us today! s*** happens I guess.
Nobody smashed us mate - we won. fair and square. If we had lost, maybe a different story.

Over to you Coach.


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Re: Umpiring - ask the question Richo

Post: # 1776686Post tedtheodorelogan2018 »

samuraisaint wrote: Sun 10 Mar 2019 9:56pm
tedtheodorelogan2018 wrote: Sun 10 Mar 2019 9:55pm Umps smashed us today! s*** happens I guess.
Nobody smashed us mate - we won. fair and square. If we had lost, maybe a different story.

Over to you Coach.
We did get the s*** rub of the free kick count.


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Re: Umpiring - ask the question Richo

Post: # 1776687Post samuraisaint »

tedtheodorelogan2018 wrote: Sun 10 Mar 2019 9:58pm
samuraisaint wrote: Sun 10 Mar 2019 9:56pm
tedtheodorelogan2018 wrote: Sun 10 Mar 2019 9:55pm Umps smashed us today! s*** happens I guess.
Nobody smashed us mate - we won. fair and square. If we had lost, maybe a different story.

Over to you Coach.
We did get the s*** rub of the free kick count.
So what else is new? As I said in my OP - I want our coach to finally stand up, step up to the plate and ask the umpires the hard questions. Then I want him and his assistants to be able to finally start to coach us so that we can win within (or manipulate if you like) the rules. As yet, our club doesn't do this as out free kick differential over the past six or seven seasons bears out. I want them to start.
Last edited by samuraisaint on Sun 10 Mar 2019 10:05pm, edited 2 times in total.


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Re: Umpiring - ask the question Richo

Post: # 1776688Post guitars4 »

Have to agree we were sloppy & undisciplined at times but 14 to 40 is a little bit steep IMO


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Re: Umpiring - ask the question Richo

Post: # 1776703Post The_Dud »

I think it’s quite counterproductive and ignorant to think the umpiring was the problem today, and not our extremely poor tackling technique and work in marking contests.


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Re: Umpiring - ask the question Richo

Post: # 1776704Post saynta »

I think most are acknowledging our poor tackling....but 40 to 14 raisers questions in my mind


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Re: Umpiring - ask the question Richo

Post: # 1776705Post guitars4 »

The_Dud wrote: Sun 10 Mar 2019 10:37pm I think it’s quite counterproductive and ignorant to think the umpiring was the problem today, and not our extremely poor tackling technique and work in marking contests.
Fair enough but I never said the umpiring had anything to do with the way we played today & yes we were our own worst enemy . I agree we need to look at how we go about playing inside the rules but to suggest I'm ignorant for my opinion is a little harsh but I can live with that.


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Re: Umpiring - ask the question Richo

Post: # 1776711Post The_Dud »

guitars4 wrote: Sun 10 Mar 2019 10:53pm
The_Dud wrote: Sun 10 Mar 2019 10:37pm I think it’s quite counterproductive and ignorant to think the umpiring was the problem today, and not our extremely poor tackling technique and work in marking contests.
Fair enough but I never said the umpiring had anything to do with the way we played today & yes we were our own worst enemy . I agree we need to look at how we go about playing inside the rules but to suggest I'm ignorant for my opinion is a little harsh but I can live with that.
My apologies, I wasn’t referring to any individual post, just more a general stating of my opinion.


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Re: Umpiring - ask the question Richo

Post: # 1776712Post guitars4 »

The_Dud wrote: Sun 10 Mar 2019 11:55pm
guitars4 wrote: Sun 10 Mar 2019 10:53pm
The_Dud wrote: Sun 10 Mar 2019 10:37pm I think it’s quite counterproductive and ignorant to think the umpiring was the problem today, and not our extremely poor tackling technique and work in marking contests.
Fair enough but I never said the umpiring had anything to do with the way we played today & yes we were our own worst enemy . I agree we need to look at how we go about playing inside the rules but to suggest I'm ignorant for my opinion is a little harsh but I can live with that.
My apologies, I wasn’t referring to any individual post, just more a general stating of my opinion.
No worries mate :wink:


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Re: Umpiring - ask the question Richo

Post: # 1776713Post Scollop »

samuraisaint wrote: Sun 10 Mar 2019 10:00pm
tedtheodorelogan2018 wrote: Sun 10 Mar 2019 9:58pm
samuraisaint wrote: Sun 10 Mar 2019 9:56pm
tedtheodorelogan2018 wrote: Sun 10 Mar 2019 9:55pm Umps smashed us today! s*** happens I guess.
Nobody smashed us mate - we won. fair and square. If we had lost, maybe a different story.

Over to you Coach.
We did get the s*** rub of the free kick count.
So what else is new? As I said in my OP - I want our coach to finally stand up, step up to the plate and ask the umpires the hard questions. Then I want him and his assistants to be able to finally start to coach us so that we can win within (or manipulate if you like) the rules. As yet, our club doesn't do this as out free kick differential over the past six or seven seasons bears out. I want them to start.
Great op and I totally agree
It's one thing to blame results on umps and whinge and carry on, but this is about being accountable. If tackling, grappling and pushes in the back are an issue then we need to learn how 'not' to offend and practice it.

You can influence how you are perceived by umpires. You can influence the way your players behave on field, including their aggression, whether they stage for frees, and how your players react after a free is awarded against them. Clarko and Hawthorn get their players to learn the umpires first names and they have pictures of the umps faces in their locker rooms. When umps come in to the clubrooms prior to a match, Hawks players greet them by their first name

Coaches talk about not worrying about things they can't control, however you cannot disregard the statistics. There is clearly a pattern so you have to address it. If we are going to be a top team we have to look at everything and this is about the 1 percenters


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Re: Umpiring - ask the question Richo

Post: # 1776715Post CQ SAINT »

High pressure football is often chaotic. Today it manifested itself foremost, in a win and as a result of our endeavours there were a number of over-zealous defensive tackles which led to free kicks.
The Doggies played the victim well and the umpires rewarded them generously but they could not capitalize on their advsntage enough to hurt us. You could say that they took a bit of a beating.
A professional performance review will cover this and we will learn from this.
Our physicality was impressive but our execution has room for improvement. The umpires dont come into the equation and protesting that is far more embarrassing than singing the song in JLT win. We simply need to be smarter.
Its early March, it's JLT, I'm extremely happy with our effort so far and I'm very confident it is trending in such a way that indicates we wil continue to improve. Forget the the umpires, review the free kick count and execute a plan to improve it.


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Re: Umpiring - ask the question Richo

Post: # 1776720Post Freebird »

Has nothing to do with technique
Last edited by Freebird on Mon 11 Mar 2019 3:10am, edited 1 time in total.


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Re: Umpiring - ask the question Richo

Post: # 1776721Post Freebird »

Has nothing to do with technique FFS Dogs over the past 5 decades have been on top of the tree when it comes to winning 50/50 /soft frees and we're down the bottom.

Are you guys serious, counterproductive and technique.

It's very commendable but bulls***. What goes around does not come around near as often. The colour of the jumper has more to do with it than technique.

Too easy for umps to be prejudice and not be questioned. The AFL tick off on all 50/50 decisions no matter how many only go to one side.


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Re: Umpiring - ask the question Richo

Post: # 1776729Post samuraisaint »

Not being pedantic here but I saw a lot of high tackle frees and in the backs that were there. I also saw one of the biggest almighty dives which would've won the Birdman rally yesterday.
We were clearly the better team yesterday, loved our aggression and appreciate the effort the players and coaching staff have put in over the summer to improve our game plan and skills.
But there is still room for improvement, and our tackling is one area that we do need to improve on, for mine. If we gave away 40 frees in a (practice) game in which we were so clearly the better side then coaches need to be sure to address it as a matter of some urgency.
And believe me, I have been a highly vocal critic of umpires in the past, perhaps with good reason, but we have to be logical here; we are in this league to win matches.
I want our coaches to coach us to work within the rules to win, just as Hawthorn, West Coast, and, yes, the Bulldogs have done. That is their job. Not just say - the frees were all there and be done with it - as has happened in the past.


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Re: Umpiring - ask the question Richo

Post: # 1776734Post Yorkeys »

Players dilemma: coming from behind at speed: tackle and risk falling forward with the tackled player's momentum or sweat off and hope. I saw Clark and Webster do excellent desperate defensive acts that were rightly penalised but thought: great endeavour/pressure and the tackled player will remember that; it was a practice game so technique can be refined before the real stuff but endeavour can't be turned on and off. Sometimes conceding a free can be the best option and an investment in future perceived pressure.


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Re: Umpiring - ask the question Richo

Post: # 1776736Post BackFromUSA »

I am personally happy we gave away 40 free kicks.

The good teams slow the opposition down.

Our pressure was very good.

Giving away a free kick can often have a reward especially if advantage is not paid.

It allows the team time to set up defensive structures.

It slows potential overlap running and quick ball movement. It should prevent outnumbers.

Giving away a free kick when the opposition has the ball and about to clear it and go on offence is actually the next best thing from winning the free kick yourself or creating a ball up.

Way better than allowing a run on.

So I agree better technique may create more ballups and even win the free ... but at least we are creating slow ball movement for the opposition.


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Re: Umpiring - ask the question Richo

Post: # 1776738Post samoht »

It’s also where the free kicks were paid to them.... quite a few in the F50!
The Bulldogs had at least another 6 or so shots at goal as a result .... and kicked a number of goals.
It kept them in the game.

Maybe we were fiercer at the contest and trying harder than the Bulldogs ...this might explain some of the crude tackles?

I think Geary gave away a professional free at one stage, to prevent a Bulldog player from getting away around their half forward line ... which probably saved a goal. That crude tackle -around the neck - made sense.


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Re: Umpiring - ask the question Richo

Post: # 1776761Post WellardSaint »

If we keep crunching guys, it should make them a bit more rushed in their decisions, maybe.

Too often, we've picked the wrong option even when in the clear.
So if we make other teams a little more rushed, because they know they're gonna get dumped,
it's to our benefit.

Won't work with Shitney or Tigers, but will surely help against Carlscum, GC, etc.
And we will give guys corkies, we'll batter them, we'll slow them down because they'll be sore.

I would like us to play fierce, dirty and very hard at the man.
If we run em down from behind, our guys have more chance of hurting them
and less chance of hurting ourselves.


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Re: Umpiring - ask the question Richo

Post: # 1776773Post Enrico_Misso »

Crude tackles!
I thought we had been working on our tackling with none other than the great Billy Slater?


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Re: Umpiring - ask the question Richo

Post: # 1776860Post saynta »

BackFromUSA wrote: Mon 11 Mar 2019 10:11am I am personally happy we gave away 40 free kicks.

The good teams slow the opposition down.

Our pressure was very good.

Giving away a free kick can often have a reward especially if advantage is not paid.

It allows the team time to set up defensive structures.

It slows potential overlap running and quick ball movement. It should prevent outnumbers.

Giving away a free kick when the opposition has the ball and about to clear it and go on offence is actually the next best thing from winning the free kick yourself or creating a ball up.

Way better than allowing a run on.

So I agree better technique may create more ballups and even win the free ... but at least we are creating slow ball movement for the opposition.
Giving away 12 free kicks in their forward 50 wasn't a good idea.


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Re: Umpiring - ask the question Richo

Post: # 1776862Post tedtheodorelogan2018 »

We got the s*** end of the stick so to speak.


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Re: Umpiring - ask the question Richo

Post: # 1776891Post Sainter_Dad »

Enrico_Misso wrote: Mon 11 Mar 2019 2:48pm Crude tackles!
I thought we had been working on our tackling with none other than the great Billy Slater?
That may be the issue - what works in NRL with them running towards you, may cause an issue if you do the same from behind. It may just need some tweaking. Please let it just be tweaking otherwise we are screwed for the year!!!


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Re: Umpiring - ask the question Richo

Post: # 1776895Post BackFromUSA »

saynta wrote: Mon 11 Mar 2019 10:50pm
BackFromUSA wrote: Mon 11 Mar 2019 10:11am I am personally happy we gave away 40 free kicks.

The good teams slow the opposition down.

Our pressure was very good.

Giving away a free kick can often have a reward especially if advantage is not paid.

It allows the team time to set up defensive structures.

It slows potential overlap running and quick ball movement. It should prevent outnumbers.

Giving away a free kick when the opposition has the ball and about to clear it and go on offence is actually the next best thing from winning the free kick yourself or creating a ball up.

Way better than allowing a run on.

So I agree better technique may create more ballups and even win the free ... but at least we are creating slow ball movement for the opposition.
Giving away 12 free kicks in their forward 50 wasn't a good idea.
That is definitely true


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