2019 Coaching. It's a lose-lose.
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Re: 2019 Coaching. It's a lose-lose.
My prediction is Richardson will be sacked around the mid season bye. He's only still coach now because of the contract stipulations.
Curb your enthusiasm - you’re a St.Kilda supporter!!
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Re: 2019 Coaching. It's a lose-lose.
Good chance you are probably correct.Sainternist wrote: ↑Tue 06 Nov 2018 6:35pm My prediction is Richardson will be sacked around the mid season bye. He's only still coach now because of the contract stipulations.
But then again , if we start winning a few games.....
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Re: 2019 Coaching. It's a lose-lose.
Sadly, I can't see us winning more than 2 games in the first half of the season. I hope they prove me wrong.saynta wrote: ↑Tue 06 Nov 2018 6:53pmGood chance you are probably correct.Sainternist wrote: ↑Tue 06 Nov 2018 6:35pm My prediction is Richardson will be sacked around the mid season bye. He's only still coach now because of the contract stipulations.
But then again , if we start winning a few games.....
Curb your enthusiasm - you’re a St.Kilda supporter!!
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Re: 2019 Coaching. It's a lose-lose.
saynta wrote: ↑Tue 06 Nov 2018 5:19pm This continuous denigration of the club and its officials, in particular the coach, has to stop.
It does nothing but undermine the club and if continued and believed, will do untold damage to the club's efforts to recruit new member, imho.
Hopefully most supporters will have more sense than the "Chicken Little" brigade who have done nothing but whinge since the Nth Melbourne game.
Saints officials have made numerous changes to the list of coaches, players and support staff. All for the better I might add but the whinging goes on.....and on...and on.
If these so called "supporters " are unhappy with the club, hopefully they will piss off and support some other team.
I, for one, am sick and tired of reading their rubbish, and so i might add, or plenty of other posters.
I can only hope ( and pray ) that the players don't read this garbage.
I have just found this in the thread and applaud you for backing up your comments. I don't agree with them mind you but I now understand your view point.
This forum/website is not a club sanctioned website. It's not saints.com.au I reckon it's for more open bantering. The club have nothing to do with it in reality. People stalk the website because certain users have great insight and some have good inside knowledge. I've never viewed the forum as a cheer squad. To be honest many of the chicken little views expressed are very similar to what you'll find out in the outer each week. We all know and understand why Richo is still coaching. Doesn't mean we have to like it.
If players are on here they almost deserve what they get. They shouldn't be stalking these pages. It's not healthy whether they read good or bad about themselves. Just like it's not healthy for relatives of players to sit amongst the great unwashed. Achieves nothing.
I too am happy with some of the changes the club have made in the last 12 months - but I have NEVER seen a coach survive this kind of win/loss ratio over this period of time. I think Richo will be in our top 5 coaches for amount of games coached in the clubs history at the end of next year! That's incredible.
I too am concerned about our membership numbers next year, but this forum is the least of my worries. We start playing competitive footy and what is being said on here will not matter a jot to new members.
And to be honest the club can ill afford for supporters to 'piss off and support some other team.' We need all the support we can get, good, bad and whiney.
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Re: 2019 Coaching. It's a lose-lose.
The truth has never been more eloquently scribed on these pages
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Re: 2019 Coaching. It's a lose-lose.
I accept and support our club's decision not to sack the coach.Moods wrote: ↑Wed 07 Nov 2018 11:52pmsaynta wrote: ↑Tue 06 Nov 2018 5:19pm This continuous denigration of the club and its officials, in particular the coach, has to stop.
It does nothing but undermine the club and if continued and believed, will do untold damage to the club's efforts to recruit new member, imho.
Hopefully most supporters will have more sense than the "Chicken Little" brigade who have done nothing but whinge since the Nth Melbourne game.
Saints officials have made numerous changes to the list of coaches, players and support staff. All for the better I might add but the whinging goes on.....and on...and on.
If these so called "supporters " are unhappy with the club, hopefully they will piss off and support some other team.
I, for one, am sick and tired of reading their rubbish, and so i might add, or plenty of other posters.
I can only hope ( and pray ) that the players don't read this garbage.
I have just found this in the thread and applaud you for backing up your comments. I don't agree with them mind you but I now understand your view point.
This forum/website is not a club sanctioned website. It's not saints.com.au I reckon it's for more open bantering. The club have nothing to do with it in reality. People stalk the website because certain users have great insight and some have good inside knowledge. I've never viewed the forum as a cheer squad. To be honest many of the chicken little views expressed are very similar to what you'll find out in the outer each week. We all know and understand why Richo is still coaching. Doesn't mean we have to like it.
If players are on here they almost deserve what they get. They shouldn't be stalking these pages. It's not healthy whether they read good or bad about themselves. Just like it's not healthy for relatives of players to sit amongst the great unwashed. Achieves nothing.
I too am happy with some of the changes the club have made in the last 12 months - but I have NEVER seen a coach survive this kind of win/loss ratio over this period of time. I think Richo will be in our top 5 coaches for amount of games coached in the clubs history at the end of next year! That's incredible.
I too am concerned about our membership numbers next year, but this forum is the least of my worries. We start playing competitive footy and what is being said on here will not matter a jot to new members.
And to be honest the club can ill afford for supporters to 'piss off and support some other team.' We need all the support we can get, good, bad and whiney.![]()
Our club's usual/traditional knee-jerk reaction would be to sack the coach and blame it all on them. That's enough to piss off supporters as well.
This time we've taken a deep breath and considered the injuries, this year, and our relatively poorer recruiting over the years, the accumulative affect of years and years of that (relative poorer recruiting) and the impact that it's now having - apart from the draft, we haven't chased the key established big-name players - the Dangerfields, the Treloars, the Mitchells, the Burgoynes, etc. - we've chased the fringe players that were surplus to a team's needs.
Last edited by samoht on Thu 08 Nov 2018 8:52am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: 2019 Coaching. It's a lose-lose.
Round one he becomes our third highest, then if he survives to round 8, he becomes our second highest ever for games coached.
37 wins as it stands.
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Re: 2019 Coaching. It's a lose-lose.
It's incredible alright...enough to make Con throw up in his breakfast bowl
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Re: 2019 Coaching. It's a lose-lose.
If Richo was suddenly sacked by the club, then it's no knee-jerk reaction. Five years in a top managerial role(head coach), with a terrible record of achievement, is not tolerable.samoht wrote: ↑Thu 08 Nov 2018 8:27amI accept and support our club's decision not to sack the coach.Moods wrote: ↑Wed 07 Nov 2018 11:52pmsaynta wrote: ↑Tue 06 Nov 2018 5:19pm This continuous denigration of the club and its officials, in particular the coach, has to stop.
It does nothing but undermine the club and if continued and believed, will do untold damage to the club's efforts to recruit new member, imho.
Hopefully most supporters will have more sense than the "Chicken Little" brigade who have done nothing but whinge since the Nth Melbourne game.
Saints officials have made numerous changes to the list of coaches, players and support staff. All for the better I might add but the whinging goes on.....and on...and on.
If these so called "supporters " are unhappy with the club, hopefully they will piss off and support some other team.
I, for one, am sick and tired of reading their rubbish, and so i might add, or plenty of other posters.
I can only hope ( and pray ) that the players don't read this garbage.
I have just found this in the thread and applaud you for backing up your comments. I don't agree with them mind you but I now understand your view point.
This forum/website is not a club sanctioned website. It's not saints.com.au I reckon it's for more open bantering. The club have nothing to do with it in reality. People stalk the website because certain users have great insight and some have good inside knowledge. I've never viewed the forum as a cheer squad. To be honest many of the chicken little views expressed are very similar to what you'll find out in the outer each week. We all know and understand why Richo is still coaching. Doesn't mean we have to like it.
If players are on here they almost deserve what they get. They shouldn't be stalking these pages. It's not healthy whether they read good or bad about themselves. Just like it's not healthy for relatives of players to sit amongst the great unwashed. Achieves nothing.
I too am happy with some of the changes the club have made in the last 12 months - but I have NEVER seen a coach survive this kind of win/loss ratio over this period of time. I think Richo will be in our top 5 coaches for amount of games coached in the clubs history at the end of next year! That's incredible.
I too am concerned about our membership numbers next year, but this forum is the least of my worries. We start playing competitive footy and what is being said on here will not matter a jot to new members.
And to be honest the club can ill afford for supporters to 'piss off and support some other team.' We need all the support we can get, good, bad and whiney.![]()
Our club's usual/traditional knee-jerk reaction would be to sack the coach and blame it all on them. That's enough to piss off supporters as well.
This time we've taken a deep breath and considered the injuries, this year, and our relatively poorer recruiting over the years, the accumulative affect of years and years of that (relative poorer recruiting) and the impact that it's now having - apart from the draft, we haven't chased the key established big-name players - the Dangerfields, the Treloars, the Mitchells, the Burgoynes, etc. - we've chased the fringe players that were surplus to a team's needs.
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Re: 2019 Coaching. It's a lose-lose.
If a new coach is concomitant with a new approach to recruiting, where we will start chasing all the established big name players and drafting to our team's needs and with the team balance in mind - i.e., start doing what the successful clubs are doing and have been doing over the years to sustain their success - then I'm all for it.
Last edited by samoht on Thu 08 Nov 2018 10:30am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2019 Coaching. It's a lose-lose.
concominant
nice word
edit ... concomitant actually
nice word
edit ... concomitant actually
Last edited by asiu on Thu 08 Nov 2018 11:50am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2019 Coaching. It's a lose-lose.
Correct. 100 per cent. The defense of AR by anyone in anyway is staggering. he would NOT be there but for a inane management decision that should itself see Finnis walking. The MORE you just accept this club being run like a chook raffle, the longer it will take to ever do anything meaningful. I m sick to death of it. its a 1oo year old problem FFS!spert wrote: ↑Thu 08 Nov 2018 10:05amIf Richo was suddenly sacked by the club, then it's no knee-jerk reaction. Five years in a top managerial role(head coach), with a terrible record of achievement, is not tolerable.samoht wrote: ↑Thu 08 Nov 2018 8:27amI accept and support our club's decision not to sack the coach.Moods wrote: ↑Wed 07 Nov 2018 11:52pmsaynta wrote: ↑Tue 06 Nov 2018 5:19pm This continuous denigration of the club and its officials, in particular the coach, has to stop.
It does nothing but undermine the club and if continued and believed, will do untold damage to the club's efforts to recruit new member, imho.
Hopefully most supporters will have more sense than the "Chicken Little" brigade who have done nothing but whinge since the Nth Melbourne game.
Saints officials have made numerous changes to the list of coaches, players and support staff. All for the better I might add but the whinging goes on.....and on...and on.
If these so called "supporters " are unhappy with the club, hopefully they will piss off and support some other team.
I, for one, am sick and tired of reading their rubbish, and so i might add, or plenty of other posters.
I can only hope ( and pray ) that the players don't read this garbage.
I have just found this in the thread and applaud you for backing up your comments. I don't agree with them mind you but I now understand your view point.
This forum/website is not a club sanctioned website. It's not saints.com.au I reckon it's for more open bantering. The club have nothing to do with it in reality. People stalk the website because certain users have great insight and some have good inside knowledge. I've never viewed the forum as a cheer squad. To be honest many of the chicken little views expressed are very similar to what you'll find out in the outer each week. We all know and understand why Richo is still coaching. Doesn't mean we have to like it.
If players are on here they almost deserve what they get. They shouldn't be stalking these pages. It's not healthy whether they read good or bad about themselves. Just like it's not healthy for relatives of players to sit amongst the great unwashed. Achieves nothing.
I too am happy with some of the changes the club have made in the last 12 months - but I have NEVER seen a coach survive this kind of win/loss ratio over this period of time. I think Richo will be in our top 5 coaches for amount of games coached in the clubs history at the end of next year! That's incredible.
I too am concerned about our membership numbers next year, but this forum is the least of my worries. We start playing competitive footy and what is being said on here will not matter a jot to new members.
And to be honest the club can ill afford for supporters to 'piss off and support some other team.' We need all the support we can get, good, bad and whiney.![]()
Our club's usual/traditional knee-jerk reaction would be to sack the coach and blame it all on them. That's enough to piss off supporters as well.
This time we've taken a deep breath and considered the injuries, this year, and our relatively poorer recruiting over the years, the accumulative affect of years and years of that (relative poorer recruiting) and the impact that it's now having - apart from the draft, we haven't chased the key established big-name players - the Dangerfields, the Treloars, the Mitchells, the Burgoynes, etc. - we've chased the fringe players that were surplus to a team's needs.
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Re: 2019 Coaching. It's a lose-lose.
iwantmeseats wrote: ↑Thu 08 Nov 2018 12:15pm
Correct. 100 per cent. The defense of AR by anyone in anyway is staggering. he would NOT be there but for a inane management decision that should itself see Finnis walking. The MORE you just accept this club being run like a chook raffle, the longer it will take to ever do anything meaningful. I m sick to death of it. its a 1oo year old problem FFS!
AR's W/L ratio will return to 50% or thereabouts, as long as we don't have a bad run with injuries again next year. If we want his W/L ratio to get to 70%, we will need to recruit an A grade midfield with elite skills for him.
We need to do what Geelong and Collingwood have done and land a ready-made star or two - a Dangerfield and a Treloar., etc...
If it was an even playing field, I too would be attacking AR, ruthlessly.
The thing is, Collingwood, Geelong, Sydney Swans, the Hawks, etc... don't just rely on their coach and their development department, they draft and recruit well (according to their team's needs) - but just as importantly, they also regularly land the elite, ready-made, big-name players to give their coaches the best chance. That's why/how their coaches have a healthy W/L ratio and these teams have sustained their success and kept themselves relevant.
We can start getting our recruiting right and start emulating what the best teams are doing, and start making it an even playing field for our coach by giving him an equal chance to succeed - or we can just sit back and continue blaming it all on the coach. Our famous default/headless chook-raffle position. There's our lose-lose/learn-nothing right there.
Last edited by samoht on Fri 09 Nov 2018 12:54pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2019 Coaching. It's a lose-lose.
Oh come on Samoht, we were terrible from the get go last year. People blaming injuries are looking for excuses. The pies had a horrific run with injuries the last 2 years and made a GF last year. Sydney have made finals with a poor run of injuries. The way I see it is that the previous 2-3 years we actually had a golden run with injuries and managed to eek out 11-12 wins a year. This year when Bruce, Webster, Roberton were available we were still getting smashed. Personnel had nothing to do with it as far as I'm concerned. Gresham, Billings, Steven, Carlisle played large chunks of the year if not all of the year. Made not a squat of differencesamoht wrote: ↑Fri 09 Nov 2018 8:44amiwantmeseats wrote: ↑Thu 08 Nov 2018 12:15pm
Correct. 100 per cent. The defense of AR by anyone in anyway is staggering. he would NOT be there but for a inane management decision that should itself see Finnis walking. The MORE you just accept this club being run like a chook raffle, the longer it will take to ever do anything meaningful. I m sick to death of it. its a 1oo year old problem FFS!
AR's W/L ratio will return to 50% or thereabouts, as long as we don't have a bad run with injuries again next year. If we want his W/L ratio to get to 70%, we will need to recruit an A grade midfield with elite skills for him.
We need to do what Geelong and Collingwood have done and land a ready-made star or two - a Dangerfield and a Treloar., etc...
If it was an even playing field, I too would be attacking AR, ruthlessly.
The thing is, Collingwood, Geelong, Sydney Swans, the Hawks, etc... don't just rely on their coach and their development department, they draft and recruit well (according to their team's needs) - but just as importantly, they also regularly land the elite, ready-made, big-name players to give their coaches the best chance. That's why/how their coaches have a healthy W/L ratio and these teams have sustained their success and kept themselves relevant.
We can start getting our recruiting right and start emulating what the best teams are doing, and make it an even playing field for our coach and give him an equal chance to succeed - or we can just sit back and continue blaming it all on the coach. Our famous default/headless chook-raffle position. There's our lose-lose/learn-nothing right there.
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Re: 2019 Coaching. It's a lose-lose.
The thing is, moods .. year by year we will fall further and further behind the more successful teams and the up and coming teams who are getting their recruiting right.
We don't have the same depth as Collingwood - so injuries affected us more.
AR had a W/L ratio of better than 50% when things were going right for him - but our recruiting team hasn't helped him over the years. We need an elite midfielder in the draft - hopefully we will not be distracted by a tall forward again this time.
We also need to poach/land an established, elite-skilled A grade midfielder or two - it's not only about the draft.
We need to give AR - or whoever our coach is - an equal chance. And, clearly, we haven't done that.
I'm not supporting the coach - I'm just hoping that we finally get our recruiting approach right, as that'll be all the support the coach needs.
We don't have the same depth as Collingwood - so injuries affected us more.
AR had a W/L ratio of better than 50% when things were going right for him - but our recruiting team hasn't helped him over the years. We need an elite midfielder in the draft - hopefully we will not be distracted by a tall forward again this time.
We also need to poach/land an established, elite-skilled A grade midfielder or two - it's not only about the draft.
We need to give AR - or whoever our coach is - an equal chance. And, clearly, we haven't done that.
I'm not supporting the coach - I'm just hoping that we finally get our recruiting approach right, as that'll be all the support the coach needs.
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Re: 2019 Coaching. It's a lose-lose.
Not sure where you get your numbers. SInce 1965 the figures are
Games Wins Losse Draws
Alan Jeans 261 152 108 1 58.24%
Grant Thomas 123 63 59 1 51.22%
Ross Lyon 121 76 41 4 62.81%
Stan Alves 115 55 59 1 47.83%
Alan Richardson 110 37 71 2 33.64%
Ken Shaldon 89 48 40 1 53.93%
Alex Jesaulenko 66 13 51 2 19.70%
Daryl Baldock 62 18 44 0 29.03%
Michael Patterson 44 14 29 1 31.82%
Scott Waters 44 17 27 0 38.64%
Tim Watson 44 12 31 1 27.27%
Ross Smith 22 3 17 2 13.64%
Malcom Blight 15 3 12 0 20.00%
Eric Guy 6 3 3 50.00%
Allan Davis 4 2 2 0 50.00%
so yes at round 14 he will go past Grant Thomas. Absolute disgrace. All the others have got us at deep into finals (or the big dance)
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Re: 2019 Coaching. It's a lose-lose.
Yeah - I agree with all this. Most on here have bemoaned our terrible recruiting. However it's hard to know if it's our recruiting or terrible player development. Would Billings be a much more effective player at another club? Would he finally nail those goals which take him from an average mid sized fwd/mid to elite. Billings kicks 40+ goals a year and he becomes elite. Big IF though. Gresham the same. He becomes the next Wingard or Robbie Gray. Some of this has to fall on Richo's shoulders. Brad Scott doesn't have a great deal to work with. Whether you think he's a flog or not - he got the very best out of his team this year I reckon. Same with Bevo in 16 and Hardwick the last 2 years.samoht wrote: ↑Fri 09 Nov 2018 12:59pm The thing is, moods .. year by year we will fall further and further behind the more successful teams and the up and coming teams who are getting their recruiting right.
We don't have the same depth as Collingwood - so injuries affected us more.
AR had a W/L ratio of better than 50% when things were going right for him - but our recruiting team hasn't helped him over the years. We need an elite midfielder in the draft - hopefully we will not be distracted by a tall forward again this time.
We also need to poach/land an established, elite-skilled A grade midfielder or two - it's not only about the draft.
We need to give AR - or whoever our coach is - an equal chance. And, clearly, we haven't done that.
I'm not supporting the coach - I'm just hoping that we finally get our recruiting approach right, as that'll be all the support the coach needs.
Why we recruited 2 x HBF's last year inside the top 10 I never understood. We didn't need that. We had a golden opportunity and we spent it on 2 x players who look solid at best. We need stars.
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Re: 2019 Coaching. It's a lose-lose.
I don’t think that will be a popular opinion.
Clarke in particular looks a likely type
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Re: 2019 Coaching. It's a lose-lose.
Good spot, I was looking at the home and away tallies...repta wrote: ↑Fri 09 Nov 2018 6:16pm
Not sure where you get your numbers. SInce 1965 the figures are
Games Wins Losse Draws
Alan Jeans 261 152 108 1 58.24%
Grant Thomas 123 63 59 1 51.22%
Ross Lyon 121 76 41 4 62.81%
Stan Alves 115 55 59 1 47.83%
Alan Richardson 110 37 71 2 33.64%
Ken Shaldon 89 48 40 1 53.93%
Alex Jesaulenko 66 13 51 2 19.70%
Daryl Baldock 62 18 44 0 29.03%
Michael Patterson 44 14 29 1 31.82%
Scott Waters 44 17 27 0 38.64%
Tim Watson 44 12 31 1 27.27%
Ross Smith 22 3 17 2 13.64%
Malcom Blight 15 3 12 0 20.00%
Eric Guy 6 3 3 50.00%
Allan Davis 4 2 2 0 50.00%
so yes at round 14 he will go past Grant Thomas. Absolute disgrace. All the others have got us at deep into finals (or the big dance)
Richo smashing it at present with 71 losses from 110 starts.
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Re: 2019 Coaching. It's a lose-lose.
It’s hard to fathom that he could overtake Stan Alves, Ross Lyon and GT in 12 months time. A tale of two cities or what.
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Re: 2019 Coaching. It's a lose-lose.
Yep well aware I’m out on my own with that opinion. I’m not saying that neither will play a lot of games for the Saints. I’m saying that neither will be stars.
We have produced one really good footballer in the last 10 years. Jack Steven. Every other really good player was developed by GT. No doubt I’ve missed someone, but that’s how I see it off the top of my head. I’m talking about a player that most clubs would love to get and would give up something significant to get
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Re: 2019 Coaching. It's a lose-lose.
King or Kingsley is an excellent coach and will likely get a senior gig eventually.
He is smart, he really communicates well with the players and understands the strategy needed for the modern game. Go up and ask him about being undermined, mistrusted, told to run his game plan then shackled by Richo. He is a quality coach and we let him a very poor coach with a horrific win loss ratio push him out.
Hopefully Ratten can push Richo out the door.
I'm not saying Kingsley's a genius...but Richmond grabbed him quick smart...I guess they just wanted a sh!t coach.
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Re: 2019 Coaching. It's a lose-lose.
Interesting.David-Lee wrote: ↑Sat 10 Nov 2018 1:12amKing or Kingsley is an excellent coach and will likely get a senior gig eventually.
He is smart, he really communicates well with the players and understands the strategy needed for the modern game. Go up and ask him about being undermined, mistrusted, told to run his game plan then shackled by Richo. He is a quality coach and we let him a very poor coach with a horrific win loss ratio push him out.
Hopefully Ratten can push Richo out the door.
I'm not saying Kingsley's a genius...but Richmond grabbed him quick smart...I guess they just wanted a sh!t coach.
I'm not necessarily disputing this, but after nearly 10 years under two different coaches at the Saints, there appeared to be zero evidence that he was any good.
Of course that is just from the outside looking in.
I always wondered why people rate him, and how he kept his job at the Saints for so long.