Monster deal for Dylan Shiel
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- BenLong#21
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- bigred
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Re: Monster deal for Dylan Shiel
Well the reported "news" was that he did not request a trade in his exit interview.
Which means bugger all.
"Now the ball is loose, it gives St. Kilda a rough chance. Black. Good handpass. Voss. Schwarze now, the defender, can run and from a long way".....
- rodgerfox
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Re: Monster deal for Dylan Shiel
Pick 4 is massive overs for Shiel.
His career numbers are almost identical to Seb Ross. Aside from averaging only 1 more Clearance a week, they're freakishly similar.
Pick 4 for a mid that only averages 24 touches and can't kick goals is overs.
Do I want him? s*** yeah.
Would I pay pick 4 for him? No way. The club is nuts if they do.
His career numbers are almost identical to Seb Ross. Aside from averaging only 1 more Clearance a week, they're freakishly similar.
Pick 4 for a mid that only averages 24 touches and can't kick goals is overs.
Do I want him? s*** yeah.
Would I pay pick 4 for him? No way. The club is nuts if they do.
- desertsaint
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Re: Monster deal for Dylan Shiel
we paid pick 3 for billings. shiel is a step up.
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Re: Monster deal for Dylan Shiel
Depends if we think Smith or Rankine will end up better than Shiel or not.rodgerfox wrote:Pick 4 is massive overs for Shiel.
His career numbers are almost identical to Seb Ross. Aside from averaging only 1 more Clearance a week, they're freakishly similar.
Pick 4 for a mid that only averages 24 touches and can't kick goals is overs.
Do I want him? s*** yeah.
Would I pay pick 4 for him? No way. The club is nuts if they do.
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- bigred
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Re: Monster deal for Dylan Shiel
![Image](https://media1.giphy.com/media/BmmfETghGOPrW/giphy.gif)
"Now the ball is loose, it gives St. Kilda a rough chance. Black. Good handpass. Voss. Schwarze now, the defender, can run and from a long way".....
Re: Monster deal for Dylan Shiel
gotta watch more gws if you think shiel and ross have comparable impact on games of footy.rodgerfox wrote: ↑Fri 21 Sep 2018 1:25pm Pick 4 is massive overs for Shiel.
His career numbers are almost identical to Seb Ross. Aside from averaging only 1 more Clearance a week, they're freakishly similar.
Pick 4 for a mid that only averages 24 touches and can't kick goals is overs.
Do I want him? s*** yeah.
Would I pay pick 4 for him? No way. The club is nuts if they do.
- bigred
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Re: Monster deal for Dylan Shiel
If Ross could kick worth a damn they might be comparable.
And probably the biggest knock on Shiel is his kicking... So that is saying something.
And probably the biggest knock on Shiel is his kicking... So that is saying something.
"Now the ball is loose, it gives St. Kilda a rough chance. Black. Good handpass. Voss. Schwarze now, the defender, can run and from a long way".....
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Re: Monster deal for Dylan Shiel
Shiel uses it better, no doubt. But he doesn't hit the scoreboard any more than Ross does. Doesn't enter Inside 50 any more than Ross, and doesn't Rebound 50 any more either. His better usage doesn't resut in any more Score Involvements or Goal Assists as Ross either.gutiguti wrote: ↑Fri 21 Sep 2018 3:27pmgotta watch more gws if you think shiel and ross have comparable impact on games of footy.rodgerfox wrote: ↑Fri 21 Sep 2018 1:25pm Pick 4 is massive overs for Shiel.
His career numbers are almost identical to Seb Ross. Aside from averaging only 1 more Clearance a week, they're freakishly similar.
Pick 4 for a mid that only averages 24 touches and can't kick goals is overs.
Do I want him? s*** yeah.
Would I pay pick 4 for him? No way. The club is nuts if they do.
They have the same Kicks, same Marks - same freakin' everything! They're even almost exactly the same age!
It's actually quite freakish how they compare statistically.
The question probably is....would Shiel be better in a weak midfield where he gets more opportunity to get the nut and doesn't have to share it with Kelly, Coniglio, Ward etc., or does that actually make Shiel's life much easier given that the opposition have 4-5 mids to worry about?
Would his B+ numbers improve if he was the number 1 guy with us? Or would they get worse given he'd get the opposition's full attention every week?
Regardless, I don't think you'd give up a pick 4 in a supposed Super Draft for a guy that can't kick goals. You'd give up a pick 4 for a Josh Kelly, or a Martin, etc. The absolute cream of the crop. But Shiel isn't in that class in my opinion.
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Re: Monster deal for Dylan Shiel
Remember though that DS has had Callen Ward, Whitfield, Coniglio and Kelly beside him. There's a few jets there that can take some heat away from him.
Would DS have been as effective had he had Ross, Dunstan and Armo (with the exception of Stuv) beside him instead of the above group?
I suspect not.
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Re: Monster deal for Dylan Shiel
Spot on gutiguti, I go to at least 4-5 GWS home games per annum, and though I respect rodgergox view to compare Ross and Sheil is laughable.gutiguti wrote: ↑Fri 21 Sep 2018 3:27pmgotta watch more gws if you think shiel and ross have comparable impact on games of footy.rodgerfox wrote: ↑Fri 21 Sep 2018 1:25pm Pick 4 is massive overs for Shiel.
His career numbers are almost identical to Seb Ross. Aside from averaging only 1 more Clearance a week, they're freakishly similar.
Pick 4 for a mid that only averages 24 touches and can't kick goals is overs.
Do I want him? s*** yeah.
Would I pay pick 4 for him? No way. The club is nuts if they do.
Sheil wins his own ball, has got speed out of the contest and plays almost exclusively inside for GWS.
Ross is not in Sheils class and I believe #4 is well warranted.
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Re: Monster deal for Dylan Shiel
What the hell is the point of giving up pick 4 for Shiel if we are not in the ‘window’? (can’t think of another word).
Like I said, we’d be back in contention for 9th. It’s a joke, but like all jokes there is a degree of truth in it.
Like I said, we’d be back in contention for 9th. It’s a joke, but like all jokes there is a degree of truth in it.
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Re: Monster deal for Dylan Shiel
If we get a few star midfielders and maybe one of our key forwards starts playing consistent footy. Most of the list play to their capability, we might just find ourselves in contention.SaintPav wrote:What the hell is the point of giving up pick 4 for Shiel if we are not in the ‘window’? (can’t think of another word).
Like I said, we’d be back in contention for 9th. It’s a joke, but like all jokes there is a degree of truth in it.
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- desertsaint
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Re: Monster deal for Dylan Shiel
yes its a fair point, but in the discussion over pick four and what its worth i think we overestimate the ability to get a star. looking over the years there's been a few, and a few flops, and lining up shiel against that list if he falls in the top half then he is definite value at pick 4. he's certainly better than his team mate mid coniglio who went pick 2.Saintmatt wrote: ↑Fri 21 Sep 2018 5:14pmRemember though that DS has had Callen Ward, Whitfield, Coniglio and Kelly beside him. There's a few jets there that can take some heat away from him.
Would DS have been as effective had he had Ross, Dunstan and Armo (with the exception of Stuv) beside him instead of the above group?
I suspect not.
no. 4 draftpick 2000-2018
luke livingston
graeme polak
tim walsh
farren ray
richard tambling
josh kennedy
matt leuenburger
cale morton
hamish hartlett
anthony morabito
andrew gaff
will hoskin-elliot
jimmy toumpas
marcus bontempelli
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Re: Monster deal for Dylan Shiel
Ross: 30.1 disposals, 9.6 contested, 4.2 clearances, 5.43 turnovers, 472.67 metres gained, 4.71 I50s, 2.62 R50s, .14 goals
Shiel: 25.9 disposals, 9.3 contested, 4.5 clearances, 4.61 turnovers, 409.87 metres gained, 4.74 I50s, 1.61 R50s, .26 goals
LOL?
Yeah nah pleasing positive
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Re: Monster deal for Dylan Shiel
As I wrote, I see Sheil live at least 4 or 5 times per season.vacuous space wrote: ↑Fri 21 Sep 2018 6:26pmRoss: 30.1 disposals, 9.6 contested, 4.2 clearances, 5.43 turnovers, 472.67 metres gained, 4.71 I50s, 2.62 R50s, .14 goals
Shiel: 25.9 disposals, 9.3 contested, 4.5 clearances, 4.61 turnovers, 409.87 metres gained, 4.74 I50s, 1.61 R50s, .26 goals
LOL?
Comparison is laughable.
Stats may be similar, watch him (Shiel) live then tell me I’m wrong.
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Re: Monster deal for Dylan Shiel
So it's less of a tangible difference and more of a vibe.Joffa Burns wrote: ↑Fri 21 Sep 2018 6:36pmStats may be similar, watch him (Shiel) live then tell me I’m wrong.
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Re: Monster deal for Dylan Shiel
There is no certainty of getting an eventual top player with a top 4 pick and you have to be bloody certain you dont waste it if that is the path the saints are going to take.But we have seen the acrimony on here if you get it badly wrong especially 1-2 picksdesertsaint wrote: ↑Fri 21 Sep 2018 6:14pmyes its a fair point, but in the discussion over pick four and what its worth i think we overestimate the ability to get a star. looking over the years there's been a few, and a few flops, and lining up shiel against that list if he falls in the top half then he is definite value at pick 4. he's certainly better than his team mate mid coniglio who went pick 2.Saintmatt wrote: ↑Fri 21 Sep 2018 5:14pmRemember though that DS has had Callen Ward, Whitfield, Coniglio and Kelly beside him. There's a few jets there that can take some heat away from him.
Would DS have been as effective had he had Ross, Dunstan and Armo (with the exception of Stuv) beside him instead of the above group?
I suspect not.
no. 4 draftpick 2000-2018
luke livingston
graeme polak
tim walsh
farren ray
richard tambling
josh kennedy
matt leuenburger
cale morton
hamish hartlett
anthony morabito
andrew gaff
will hoskin-elliot
jimmy toumpas
marcus bontempelli
jarrod pickett
clayton oliver
ben ainsworth
luke davies-uniacke
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Re: Monster deal for Dylan Shiel
In summing up, it’s the constitution, it’s Mabo, it’s justice, it’s law, it’s the vibe and aah no that’s it, it’s the vibe. I rest my case.vacuous space wrote: ↑Fri 21 Sep 2018 7:00pmSo it's less of a tangible difference and more of a vibe.Joffa Burns wrote: ↑Fri 21 Sep 2018 6:36pmStats may be similar, watch him (Shiel) live then tell me I’m wrong.
![Wink :wink:](./images/smilies/icon_wink.gif)
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Re: Monster deal for Dylan Shiel
What about Shiel and another player?
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- Joffa Burns
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Re: Monster deal for Dylan Shiel
Why trade for Shiel now and not wait for FA?
The answer to that is how many top end FA want to come to St Kilda?
As written previously I live between Sydney, QLD & VIC and go to 4 or 5 home GSW games a season and a few GC Suns.
Shiel is used by GWS as an inside mid almost exclusively and does all the team heavy lifting inside with Cal Ward. They use Kelly, Scully etc on the outside for run and carry and do a lot of this off half back as well.
Scully by the way is a running freak.
Shiel is seriously tough and strong but is also very explosive and can break out of a stoppage like few others in the comp. His kicking is good but not great, similar to Jack Steven (but lefty) but I believe it would be better if used differently.
I believe we would use Sheil more outside than inside as we have an abundance of inside mids and would use his pace, which GWS do not need on the outside. He would compliment our mids beautifully with his explosive play and leg speed.
Sorry for harping but the other guy to get is Setterfield, will be AA in 3-4 years.
Big, strong and very good. If he goes cheap and we don't have a crack at him I'll do a Terry Wallace.
The answer to that is how many top end FA want to come to St Kilda?
As written previously I live between Sydney, QLD & VIC and go to 4 or 5 home GSW games a season and a few GC Suns.
Shiel is used by GWS as an inside mid almost exclusively and does all the team heavy lifting inside with Cal Ward. They use Kelly, Scully etc on the outside for run and carry and do a lot of this off half back as well.
Scully by the way is a running freak.
Shiel is seriously tough and strong but is also very explosive and can break out of a stoppage like few others in the comp. His kicking is good but not great, similar to Jack Steven (but lefty) but I believe it would be better if used differently.
I believe we would use Sheil more outside than inside as we have an abundance of inside mids and would use his pace, which GWS do not need on the outside. He would compliment our mids beautifully with his explosive play and leg speed.
Sorry for harping but the other guy to get is Setterfield, will be AA in 3-4 years.
Big, strong and very good. If he goes cheap and we don't have a crack at him I'll do a Terry Wallace.
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Re: Monster deal for Dylan Shiel
Agreed!chico2001 wrote: ↑Fri 21 Sep 2018 7:07pmThere is no certainty of getting an eventual top player with a top 4 pick and you have to be bloody certain you dont waste it if that is the path the saints are going to take.But we have seen the acrimony on here if you get it badly wrong especially 1-2 picksdesertsaint wrote: ↑Fri 21 Sep 2018 6:14pmyes its a fair point, but in the discussion over pick four and what its worth i think we overestimate the ability to get a star. looking over the years there's been a few, and a few flops, and lining up shiel against that list if he falls in the top half then he is definite value at pick 4. he's certainly better than his team mate mid coniglio who went pick 2.Saintmatt wrote: ↑Fri 21 Sep 2018 5:14pmRemember though that DS has had Callen Ward, Whitfield, Coniglio and Kelly beside him. There's a few jets there that can take some heat away from him.
Would DS have been as effective had he had Ross, Dunstan and Armo (with the exception of Stuv) beside him instead of the above group?
I suspect not.
no. 4 draftpick 2000-2018
luke livingston
graeme polak
tim walsh
farren ray
richard tambling
josh kennedy
matt leuenburger
cale morton
hamish hartlett
anthony morabito
andrew gaff
will hoskin-elliot
jimmy toumpas
marcus bontempelli
jarrod pickett
clayton oliver
ben ainsworth
luke davies-uniacke
I for one don't think I have the strength to see us take another kid with "promise" at pick 4, but after four to five seasons, they are still just a kid with promise, whereas whoever went at pick 5 was already a jet after two seasons.
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