Big Boy McEVOY.
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23011
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 3:53pm
- Has thanked: 8909 times
- Been thanked: 3883 times
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 18579
- Joined: Thu 11 Mar 2004 1:36am
- Has thanked: 1905 times
- Been thanked: 843 times
Re: Big Boy McEVOY.
Bloody good player who reeks of leadership. I never liked the idea of him going.
Refresh my memory, was that another Felchen masterstroke?
Refresh my memory, was that another Felchen masterstroke?
- skeptic
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 16891
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 7:10pm
- Has thanked: 3583 times
- Been thanked: 2852 times
Re: Big Boy McEVOY.
Oh please.
He got what 4 more possessions than a second game ruck and less ball than Marshall
His best rucking performance of the year against 2 players with a combined 10 games btw them
Had career of being outmuscled and outpointed by the best rucks in the league and it being covered up by a supreme Hawks midfield or whoever the other Hawks big man was.
If he stayed with us and remained the best of a bad bunch with a Bruce or Gilbert backing him up, he’d have had a more blatantly mediocre career
He got what 4 more possessions than a second game ruck and less ball than Marshall
His best rucking performance of the year against 2 players with a combined 10 games btw them
Had career of being outmuscled and outpointed by the best rucks in the league and it being covered up by a supreme Hawks midfield or whoever the other Hawks big man was.
If he stayed with us and remained the best of a bad bunch with a Bruce or Gilbert backing him up, he’d have had a more blatantly mediocre career
- Wayne42
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 4911
- Joined: Mon 24 Jun 2013 10:27pm
- Has thanked: 619 times
- Been thanked: 558 times
Re: Big Boy McEVOY.
Was it when those brilliant recruiters, Pelican and Brains, came up with a strategy to trade good players for first round picks so that we could have multiple first round picks and rebuild with quality.
We succeeded in trading out some good players, unfortunately, we weren't capable of drafting quality back into the club.
We succeeded in trading out some good players, unfortunately, we weren't capable of drafting quality back into the club.
The Saints are under review, will it make any difference to the underachievers ?
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 18579
- Joined: Thu 11 Mar 2004 1:36am
- Has thanked: 1905 times
- Been thanked: 843 times
Re: Big Boy McEVOY.
Kicked two crucial goals last night and has developed into one of the league’s better ruckmen. What is he? A dual premiership player now?
Last edited by bigcarl on Sun 19 Aug 2018 7:51pm, edited 1 time in total.
- ace
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 10734
- Joined: Sun 16 Dec 2007 3:28pm
- Location: St Kilda
- Has thanked: 30 times
- Been thanked: 819 times
Re: Big Boy McEVOY.
He could not run, waddled like a duck rocking from side to side. Some call it lumbering.
He could not win a hitout because he was more intent on wrestling his opponent, never went for the ball.
Hawthorn got him fit and has made him run. They have developed him into a mobile ruckman who can take marks around the ground and win hitouts to advantage.
The more you know, the more you know you don't know.
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
When I was a young child, I knew that I knew so much about so much.
Now that I am old and know so much more, I know that I know so much about so little, and so little about so much.
If you are not engaging AI actively and aggressively, you are doing it wrong.
You are not going to lose your job to AI.
You are going lose your job to somebody who uses AI.
Your company is not going to go out of business because of AI.
Your company is going to go out of business because another company used AI.
- Jensen Huang, CEO of NVIDIA
-
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 2917
- Joined: Mon 28 Apr 2008 4:56pm
- Location: victoria
- Has thanked: 260 times
- Been thanked: 119 times
Re: Big Boy McEVOY.
We havent got a great record developing players have weace wrote: ↑Sun 19 Aug 2018 7:51pmHe could not run, waddled like a duck rocking from side to side. Some call it lumbering.
He could not win a hitout because he was more intent on wrestling his opponent, never went for the ball.
Hawthorn got him fit and has made him run. They have developed him into a mobile ruckman who can take marks around the ground and win hitouts to advantage.
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 114
- Joined: Wed 14 Sep 2011 4:37pm
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 2 times
- Been thanked: 26 times
Re: Big Boy McEVOY.
Spot on Champ!!bergsone wrote: ↑Sun 19 Aug 2018 8:05pmWe havent got a great record developing players have weace wrote: ↑Sun 19 Aug 2018 7:51pmHe could not run, waddled like a duck rocking from side to side. Some call it lumbering.
He could not win a hitout because he was more intent on wrestling his opponent, never went for the ball.
Hawthorn got him fit and has made him run. They have developed him into a mobile ruckman who can take marks around the ground and win hitouts to advantage.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 4304
- Joined: Fri 17 Nov 2006 1:05am
- Has thanked: 46 times
- Been thanked: 240 times
Re: Big Boy McEVOY.
Yesscallopsroe wrote: ↑Sun 19 Aug 2018 8:33pmSpot on Champ!!bergsone wrote: ↑Sun 19 Aug 2018 8:05pmWe havent got a great record developing players have weace wrote: ↑Sun 19 Aug 2018 7:51pmHe could not run, waddled like a duck rocking from side to side. Some call it lumbering.
He could not win a hitout because he was more intent on wrestling his opponent, never went for the ball.
Hawthorn got him fit and has made him run. They have developed him into a mobile ruckman who can take marks around the ground and win hitouts to advantage.
I'd like to ship Goddard to the hawks for a year or two.
He would come back an all australian backman.
In red white and black from 73
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 988
- Joined: Fri 18 May 2018 10:06am
- Has thanked: 210 times
- Been thanked: 83 times
Re: Big Boy McEVOY.
Got no choice to say that those comments are rubbish. He was a good ruckman when he left the saints, averages shy of a goal a game, can take a big mark...FFS I wonder if some of you guys know anything about football. Yet you will praise up B graders like Dunstan, Gilbert and Armo. We got Dunstan and savage for him by the way. Go figureskeptic wrote: ↑Sun 19 Aug 2018 7:45pm Oh please.
He got what 4 more possessions than a second game ruck and less ball than Marshall
His best rucking performance of the year against 2 players with a combined 10 games btw them
Had career of being outmuscled and outpointed by the best rucks in the league and it being covered up by a supreme Hawks midfield or whoever the other Hawks big man was.
If he stayed with us and remained the best of a bad bunch with a Bruce or Gilbert backing him up, he’d have had a more blatantly mediocre career
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 52
- Joined: Sun 10 Sep 2017 5:56pm
- Been thanked: 13 times
Re: Big Boy McEVOY.
I definitely remember McEvoy being a very average player. Of course he is a decent player under the hawthorn dynasty of coaches. He would not be as good as he is now if he stayed with St Kilda.
-
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2203
- Joined: Wed 19 Aug 2009 10:32pm
- Location: Del Mar, California
- Has thanked: 34 times
- Been thanked: 237 times
Re: Big Boy McEVOY.
Think we got Savage and a draft pick, possibly turned out to be McKenzie.
He's always been a strong mark, had good endurance and an average tap ruckman.
Hawks have a coach who can identify talent and utilize it to advantage.
He's always been a strong mark, had good endurance and an average tap ruckman.
Hawks have a coach who can identify talent and utilize it to advantage.
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 1404
- Joined: Fri 26 May 2006 4:29pm
- Has thanked: 31 times
- Been thanked: 132 times
Re: Big Boy McEVOY.
Raph Goat Clarke wrote: ↑Mon 20 Aug 2018 10:35pm I definitely remember McEvoy being a very average player. Of course he is a decent player under the hawthorn dynasty of coaches. He would not be as good as he is now if he stayed with St Kilda.
McEvoy was a very good player for the Saints and was talked about as a future captain. He was always elite for marking around the ground and as a runner.
He was denigrated on Saintsational because of his hit-outs but he was always worthy of a number 9 draft pick.
He went to Hawthorn because he was the missing link for their premiership team whilst we wanted new blood for later because we were going downhill.
I think it has been shown that we made a big mistake.
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 1825
- Joined: Thu 15 Sep 2011 5:54pm
- Has thanked: 119 times
- Been thanked: 382 times
Re: Big Boy McEVOY.
We got Savage & Picks 18 & 19, for which we got Dunstan & Acres.
Lost a pick in the 20's and a late pick, I think.
I recall as you say he has always been a good mark, average tap ruckman, but has improved in all facets with Hawthorn as he matured more. Was 24 when he left Saints, so young for a ruckman.
For us Savage has been servicable, Dunstan started well but has stagnated at present, and Acres needs a consistent run at it, both still pretty young though - next 3-4 years will sort them out one way or the other. Hopefully Dunstan can regain his early form, and Acres could be anything.
- skeptic
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 16891
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 7:10pm
- Has thanked: 3583 times
- Been thanked: 2852 times
Re: Big Boy McEVOY.
Very selective memories here for some... I guess the grass really is always greener.
With McEvoy we had the same problem as with Hickey... Ben was monstered in the middle and decent around the ground... granted certainly better than Hickey at this point.
The majority here were really frustrated with him
It’s pure fantasy to suggest otherwise. He was being smashed by 18 yo kids for goodness sake
Heck we were all laughing at the trade a few years ago when Hickey I think climbed all over him.
Hawthorn have been really clever in how they used him... they put him in positions where they could make the most of his marking and protected him from being smashed in the middle by having tap speacilists.
He’s been shown up a number times at Hawthorn the last few years too... was absolutely smashed in one of their last finals... forget the game (Bulldogs?). I started a thread at the time.
In fairness to McEvoy, he’s gotten better over time but he only looks as good because of the team around him. If he stayed with us he would not have anywhere near the reputation he has now.
Good example of a player used within his limitations - if anything that’s what we should be talking about
What a silly revisionist thread
With McEvoy we had the same problem as with Hickey... Ben was monstered in the middle and decent around the ground... granted certainly better than Hickey at this point.
The majority here were really frustrated with him
It’s pure fantasy to suggest otherwise. He was being smashed by 18 yo kids for goodness sake
Heck we were all laughing at the trade a few years ago when Hickey I think climbed all over him.
Hawthorn have been really clever in how they used him... they put him in positions where they could make the most of his marking and protected him from being smashed in the middle by having tap speacilists.
He’s been shown up a number times at Hawthorn the last few years too... was absolutely smashed in one of their last finals... forget the game (Bulldogs?). I started a thread at the time.
In fairness to McEvoy, he’s gotten better over time but he only looks as good because of the team around him. If he stayed with us he would not have anywhere near the reputation he has now.
Good example of a player used within his limitations - if anything that’s what we should be talking about
What a silly revisionist thread
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 9069
- Joined: Wed 29 Jun 2005 10:39pm
- Location: A distant beach
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 426 times
Re: Big Boy McEVOY.
Looked like just another McEvoy game to me, as he played when with us- took a couple of strong marks, did a couple of smart things, but didn't really do that well against a couple of inexperienced players in the ruck. He was never a very effective first ruck, and was better as a backup ruck/ forward..what the Hawks needed at the time.
- skeptic
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 16891
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 7:10pm
- Has thanked: 3583 times
- Been thanked: 2852 times
Re: Big Boy McEVOY.
I don’t see it personally...Shaggy wrote: ↑Mon 20 Aug 2018 11:17pmRaph Goat Clarke wrote: ↑Mon 20 Aug 2018 10:35pm I definitely remember McEvoy being a very average player. Of course he is a decent player under the hawthorn dynasty of coaches. He would not be as good as he is now if he stayed with St Kilda.
McEvoy was a very good player for the Saints and was talked about as a future captain. He was always elite for marking around the ground and as a runner.
He was denigrated on Saintsational because of his hit-outs but he was always worthy of a number 9 draft pick.
He went to Hawthorn because he was the missing link for their premiership team whilst we wanted new blood for later because we were going downhill.
I think it has been shown that we made a big mistake.
McEvoy stays at St. Kilda. Remains the primary ruck... gets regularly exposed in the middle. Can’t really play another position. We can’t play Hickey/Longer in the same team as him. The back up rucks end being Bruce, GIlbert etc
Seems to me that we’re more or less in the same spot as now but without Savage, Dunstan or Acres... it’s not the traders fault that we can’t develop players. It’s a good deal
- SydneySainter
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2416
- Joined: Sat 26 May 2007 6:59pm
- Has thanked: 54 times
- Been thanked: 153 times
Re: Big Boy McEVOY.
I used it see it that way, now I'm not so sure.skeptic wrote: ↑Tue 21 Aug 2018 10:15amI don’t see it personally...Shaggy wrote: ↑Mon 20 Aug 2018 11:17pmRaph Goat Clarke wrote: ↑Mon 20 Aug 2018 10:35pm I definitely remember McEvoy being a very average player. Of course he is a decent player under the hawthorn dynasty of coaches. He would not be as good as he is now if he stayed with St Kilda.
McEvoy was a very good player for the Saints and was talked about as a future captain. He was always elite for marking around the ground and as a runner.
He was denigrated on Saintsational because of his hit-outs but he was always worthy of a number 9 draft pick.
He went to Hawthorn because he was the missing link for their premiership team whilst we wanted new blood for later because we were going downhill.
I think it has been shown that we made a big mistake.
McEvoy stays at St. Kilda. Remains the primary ruck... gets regularly exposed in the middle. Can’t really play another position. We can’t play Hickey/Longer in the same team as him. The back up rucks end being Bruce, GIlbert etc
Seems to me that we’re more or less in the same spot as now but without Savage, Dunstan or Acres... it’s not the traders fault that we can’t develop players. It’s a good deal
Neither Hickey nor Longer have made the primary ruck role their own, despite each being given plenty of chances. Savage is a role-player at best and Dunstan, while he's tough, he's also pretty one-dimensional and I think we may have already seen his best.
Even Acres has taken a step back this year, but admittedly been injured.
Bad management is bad management
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23011
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 3:53pm
- Has thanked: 8909 times
- Been thanked: 3883 times
Re: Big Boy McEVOY.
Pretty simple to me. Big boy plays for us last Saturday night, and not the Hawks. We win.
- skeptic
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 16891
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 7:10pm
- Has thanked: 3583 times
- Been thanked: 2852 times
Re: Big Boy McEVOY.
Well that is simple
And just so I’m clear... you’re the guy that has lamented drafting McEvoy and previously hammered home the point that drafting McEvoy ahead of Cyril cost us two flags right?
That is you isn’ it Saynta
And just so I’m clear... you’re the guy that has lamented drafting McEvoy and previously hammered home the point that drafting McEvoy ahead of Cyril cost us two flags right?
That is you isn’ it Saynta
Last edited by skeptic on Tue 21 Aug 2018 11:07am, edited 1 time in total.
- skeptic
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 16891
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 7:10pm
- Has thanked: 3583 times
- Been thanked: 2852 times
Re: Big Boy McEVOY.
I don’t disagree but does that make the trade bad?SydneySainter wrote: ↑Tue 21 Aug 2018 10:20amI used it see it that way, now I'm not so sure.skeptic wrote: ↑Tue 21 Aug 2018 10:15amI don’t see it personally...Shaggy wrote: ↑Mon 20 Aug 2018 11:17pmRaph Goat Clarke wrote: ↑Mon 20 Aug 2018 10:35pm I definitely remember McEvoy being a very average player. Of course he is a decent player under the hawthorn dynasty of coaches. He would not be as good as he is now if he stayed with St Kilda.
McEvoy was a very good player for the Saints and was talked about as a future captain. He was always elite for marking around the ground and as a runner.
He was denigrated on Saintsational because of his hit-outs but he was always worthy of a number 9 draft pick.
He went to Hawthorn because he was the missing link for their premiership team whilst we wanted new blood for later because we were going downhill.
I think it has been shown that we made a big mistake.
McEvoy stays at St. Kilda. Remains the primary ruck... gets regularly exposed in the middle. Can’t really play another position. We can’t play Hickey/Longer in the same team as him. The back up rucks end being Bruce, GIlbert etc
Seems to me that we’re more or less in the same spot as now but without Savage, Dunstan or Acres... it’s not the traders fault that we can’t develop players. It’s a good deal
Neither Hickey nor Longer have made the primary ruck role their own, despite each being given plenty of chances. Savage is a role-player at best and Dunstan, while he's tough, he's also pretty one-dimensional and I think we may have already seen his best.
Even Acres has taken a step back this year, but admittedly been injured.
If Hickey was playing 2016 form (a player not involved in that trade) does that make the trade better?
What if we had a better coach that better developed our players and we smashed the midfield.
It’s a straw man argument and it doesn’t hold up. You can’t have the results that you can’t predict advise the outcome. If we had recruited 3 Dusty Martin’s with those picks the actual trade is no different then if we recruited 3 Shane Savages
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23011
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 3:53pm
- Has thanked: 8909 times
- Been thanked: 3883 times
Re: Big Boy McEVOY.
Ain't that the truth. You have to wonder if pelican s*** was working for us or still working for the Hawks.Wayne42 wrote: ↑Sun 19 Aug 2018 7:46pm Was it when those brilliant recruiters, Pelican and Brains, came up with a strategy to trade good players for first round picks so that we could have multiple first round picks and rebuild with quality.
We succeeded in trading out some good players, unfortunately, we weren't capable of drafting quality back into the club.
He certainly fixed up their ruck problem, which enabled them to win a couple of flags. Prick.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 11557
- Joined: Sun 11 Sep 2011 2:26pm
- Has thanked: 3525 times
- Been thanked: 2465 times
Re: Big Boy McEVOY.
Clarko identified Ben as a player who had potential. We got a pretty good deal out of it and it was up to the Saints to get their recruiting and development right. The Hawthorn coach utilised Ben's strengths and didn't try and re-invent him. Ben has elite fitness and endurance and can be damaging with his overhead contested marking.
Tom Hickey was 8th in our Best and Fairest in 2016 and his fitness, contested marking and his goal kicking were all on an upward trajectory. Richo destroyed Tom's confidence after a few rounds into 2017 and Richo has a tendancy to scapegoat players and blame his players rather than working to their strengths. The Pierce/Marshall combination is more an aciident rather than good development and coaching ( and definitely our best option going forward ).
I agree with a few others that have suggested the trade was a good one. Our football development and our coaching is one of the reasons St Kilda are not higher up the ladder
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 23011
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 3:53pm
- Has thanked: 8909 times
- Been thanked: 3883 times
Re: Big Boy McEVOY.
In hindsight it was a rotten trade imho, but I am fully aware of alternative views.Scollop wrote: ↑Tue 21 Aug 2018 11:36amClarko identified Ben as a player who had potential. We got a pretty good deal out of it and it was up to the Saints to get their recruiting and development right. The Hawthorn coach utilised Ben's strengths and didn't try and re-invent him. Ben has elite fitness and endurance and can be damaging with his overhead contested marking.
Tom Hickey was 8th in our Best and Fairest in 2016 and his fitness, contested marking and his goal kicking were all on an upward trajectory. Richo destroyed Tom's confidence after a few rounds into 2017 and Richo has a tendancy to scapegoat players and blame his players rather than working to their strengths. The Pierce/Marshall combination is more an aciident rather than good development and coaching ( and definitely our best option going forward ).
I agree with a few others that have suggested the trade was a good one. Our football development and our coaching is one of the reasons St Kilda are not higher up the ladder
I think the greater football public would agree with me.