Tim Watson era of coaching
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
- skeptic
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 16983
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 7:10pm
- Has thanked: 3627 times
- Been thanked: 2897 times
Tim Watson era of coaching
Hi everyone.
I was thinking a bit about this gloomy time in our history with all the criticism of Richo’s coaching, talk about worst of all time etc.
Now for some context... I was about 14-16 over this period of time so whilst I remember reasonably vividly, obviously my peak understanding of football, recollections etc occurs/ed later (allegedly). And for the life of me, I’m struggling.
What was so bad about Tim Watson as coach..?
From where I sit, Timid TIm made the cardinal sin that coaches don’t recover from and he compounded with his second mistake...
He overrated a downward trending list as a legitimate finals contender and topped up with the nail in his coffin being that his recycled recruits in Fred Campbell, Sean Charles, Damian Monkhorst etc were all extremely terrible.
If you make that mistake, you seldom ever get to recover, unless you do the Brad Scott, realise it right away and immediately take steps to rectify it.
But what else?
Was Timid such a horrible match day coach?
WHat did he do that was so bad?
Was he the guy that tried Hall in the backline?
I really can’t remember
The one thing that stands out for me... and I still have the article at home (kept a scrap book at the time) was that after he resigned, the Herald Sun wrote this list up of our needed turnover. Players that were young with potential and should be kept, players that were unable to perform and needed to be cut (the Saints who sin), and those treading thin ice.
All of those in the middle category were guys that had played at least 60-100 games and were really inconsistent... none of this, he’s played 4 games in three years crap.
Thoughts?
I was thinking a bit about this gloomy time in our history with all the criticism of Richo’s coaching, talk about worst of all time etc.
Now for some context... I was about 14-16 over this period of time so whilst I remember reasonably vividly, obviously my peak understanding of football, recollections etc occurs/ed later (allegedly). And for the life of me, I’m struggling.
What was so bad about Tim Watson as coach..?
From where I sit, Timid TIm made the cardinal sin that coaches don’t recover from and he compounded with his second mistake...
He overrated a downward trending list as a legitimate finals contender and topped up with the nail in his coffin being that his recycled recruits in Fred Campbell, Sean Charles, Damian Monkhorst etc were all extremely terrible.
If you make that mistake, you seldom ever get to recover, unless you do the Brad Scott, realise it right away and immediately take steps to rectify it.
But what else?
Was Timid such a horrible match day coach?
WHat did he do that was so bad?
Was he the guy that tried Hall in the backline?
I really can’t remember
The one thing that stands out for me... and I still have the article at home (kept a scrap book at the time) was that after he resigned, the Herald Sun wrote this list up of our needed turnover. Players that were young with potential and should be kept, players that were unable to perform and needed to be cut (the Saints who sin), and those treading thin ice.
All of those in the middle category were guys that had played at least 60-100 games and were really inconsistent... none of this, he’s played 4 games in three years crap.
Thoughts?
- desertsaint
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 10426
- Joined: Sun 27 Apr 2008 2:02pm
- Location: out there
- Has thanked: 190 times
- Been thanked: 713 times
Re: Tim Watson era of coaching
seemed to going okay. even good. then came that hawks game and we never recovered.
"The starting point of all achievement is desire. "
-
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 3376
- Joined: Wed 12 Sep 2007 5:30pm
- Has thanked: 172 times
- Been thanked: 519 times
Re: Tim Watson era of coaching
Biggest mistake was had no experience coaching , even Assistant coaching - straight from media.
Lacked experience to handle situations (post Hawthorn game ) and from there it snowballed.
Lacked experience to handle situations (post Hawthorn game ) and from there it snowballed.
- SaintPav
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 19064
- Joined: Wed 16 Jun 2010 9:24pm
- Location: Alma Road
- Has thanked: 1598 times
- Been thanked: 2014 times
Re: Tim Watson era of coaching
Blight got rid of the Wanklen twins and put Hall down back. It worked for about 2 weeks.
Blight had NFI.
Tim might have been a better coach if he took a long term view and served an apprenticeship but he was very naive.
Plympton stuffed up.
Blight had NFI.
Tim might have been a better coach if he took a long term view and served an apprenticeship but he was very naive.
Plympton stuffed up.
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
- shanegrambeau
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 5969
- Joined: Thu 25 Jan 2018 2:15pm
- Has thanked: 328 times
- Been thanked: 711 times
Re: Tim Watson era of coaching
I remember the Hawthorn game and subsequent, “boarding house pudding” comment, and, I remember Tim saying he didn’t realize, “being an a-hole” was part of a coache’s remit. That’s about all. I was so shocked at the Stan Alves firing, the disappointment of ‘97 and the Sydney loss in ‘98, when the honeymoon finished after that Hawthorn game, I smelt the heavy rain in the horizon and checked out. Patchy supporter - guilty!
You're quite brilliant Shane, yeah..terrific!
- SaintPav
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 19064
- Joined: Wed 16 Jun 2010 9:24pm
- Location: Alma Road
- Has thanked: 1598 times
- Been thanked: 2014 times
Re: Tim Watson era of coaching
Smart and who would can really blame you!shanegrambeau wrote: ↑Wed 15 Aug 2018 9:55pm I remember the Hawthorn game and subsequent, “boarding house pudding” comment, and, I remember Tim saying he didn’t realize, “being an a-hole” was part of a coache’s remit. That’s about all. I was so shocked at the Stan Alves firing, the disappointment of ‘97 and the Sydney loss in ‘98, when the honeymoon finished after that Hawthorn game, I smelt the heavy rain in the horizon and checked out. Patchy supporter - guilty!
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
- skeptic
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 16983
- Joined: Wed 10 Mar 2004 7:10pm
- Has thanked: 3627 times
- Been thanked: 2897 times
Re: Tim Watson era of coaching
I have this strange feeling in that whilst I’ve always considered Tim the worst coach of my time (Blight doesn’t count because he outright didn’t care)... I’m struggling to find the reasons as to why beyond results.
Richo on the other hand... how long do you have!!?? Let me get a pencil
Richo on the other hand... how long do you have!!?? Let me get a pencil
- Waltzing St Kilda
- SS Hall of Fame
- Posts: 2159
- Joined: Sun 14 Mar 2010 5:20am
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 2 times
- Been thanked: 357 times
Re: Tim Watson era of coaching
The Hawks game.
Spida Everitt gave away three successive 50m penalties (and a goal, obviously) and Watson dragged him
As he was coming off the ground, Everitt glared defiantly at the coaching box.
Watson was too timid to nip such impudence in the bud. The cancer metastasized very quickly.
Watson disapproved of Sheedy's tough-love style and wanted to believe that footballers are smart enough to be treated as equals.
They're not.
Spida Everitt gave away three successive 50m penalties (and a goal, obviously) and Watson dragged him
As he was coming off the ground, Everitt glared defiantly at the coaching box.
Watson was too timid to nip such impudence in the bud. The cancer metastasized very quickly.
Watson disapproved of Sheedy's tough-love style and wanted to believe that footballers are smart enough to be treated as equals.
They're not.
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 153
- Joined: Wed 14 Sep 2011 12:04am
- Has thanked: 103 times
- Been thanked: 12 times
Re: Tim Watson era of coaching
He told me prior to his second season that he believed in attacking football. ‘The team that scores the most wins’,he said in a thoughtful review of his football philosophy. When I suggested that many successful teams develop a core effective defensive unit he dismissed that as being unnecessary if you focus on attack
- SaintPav
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 19064
- Joined: Wed 16 Jun 2010 9:24pm
- Location: Alma Road
- Has thanked: 1598 times
- Been thanked: 2014 times
Re: Tim Watson era of coaching
Seems like Tim was really up with where the game was going.one point wrote: ↑Thu 16 Aug 2018 5:36am He told me prior to his second season that he believed in attacking football. ‘The team that scores the most wins’,he said in a thoughtful review of his football philosophy. When I suggested that many successful teams develop a core effective defensive unit he dismissed that as being unnecessary if you focus on attack
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
- degruch
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 8948
- Joined: Mon 19 May 2008 4:29pm
- Location: Croydonia
- Has thanked: 146 times
- Been thanked: 237 times
Re: Tim Watson era of coaching
Geez...and we consider Richo a lousy game day coach! Poor ol' Timmy, loved him as a player, and so did our admin...they took their adoration a bit too far.
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 818
- Joined: Fri 16 Sep 2011 8:23am
- Location: brisy
- Has thanked: 5 times
- Been thanked: 103 times
Re: Tim Watson era of coaching
Tim had a game plan/vision unfortunately didn't have the cattle to execute that that style.
I think it relied on foot skills which we lacked, plus lack of experience managing people.
I think it relied on foot skills which we lacked, plus lack of experience managing people.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 11941
- Joined: Sun 11 Sep 2011 2:26pm
- Has thanked: 3650 times
- Been thanked: 2548 times
Re: Tim Watson era of coaching
So he blamed the players too did he?
He was unprepared and unsuitable for the task of head coach
- SaintPav
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 19064
- Joined: Wed 16 Jun 2010 9:24pm
- Location: Alma Road
- Has thanked: 1598 times
- Been thanked: 2014 times
Re: Tim Watson era of coaching
According to Plymo, Tim "lost his way". He said the same thing about Stan.
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 9124
- Joined: Wed 29 Jun 2005 10:39pm
- Location: A distant beach
- Has thanked: 1 time
- Been thanked: 436 times
Re: Tim Watson era of coaching
I think Plymo might have lost his way too..
- SaintPav
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 19064
- Joined: Wed 16 Jun 2010 9:24pm
- Location: Alma Road
- Has thanked: 1598 times
- Been thanked: 2014 times
Re: Tim Watson era of coaching
Everyone loses their way eventually, one way or another, but yes, it appears so.spert wrote: ↑Thu 16 Aug 2018 11:14amI think Plymo might have lost his way too..
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 4655
- Joined: Sun 18 Jun 2006 2:04pm
- Location: Melb
- Has thanked: 5 times
- Been thanked: 23 times
Re: Tim Watson era of coaching
That Hawthorn game wasn't the first of those second half fade outs and us not being able to stop the onslaught. There were a couple of games leading up to this where it was too late for the opposition but it was raining goals. One was against Melbourne only a few weeks before, for memory they kicked about 8 goals in the last 15 minutes. We were up by about 90.... But the warnings signs were there. There were other games similarly in the lead up to that Hawthorn game. I'd have to go back and check to refresh the memory.
The thing about Tim is he admitted he was no good and left. This current train wreck, who in my opinion is a top 3 worst coach of any club in my lifetime, really needs to walk if he has any decency
Edit- my memory is shot, Melbourne game was round 2....
The thing about Tim is he admitted he was no good and left. This current train wreck, who in my opinion is a top 3 worst coach of any club in my lifetime, really needs to walk if he has any decency
Edit- my memory is shot, Melbourne game was round 2....
Bring back the Lockett era
- shanegrambeau
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 5969
- Joined: Thu 25 Jan 2018 2:15pm
- Has thanked: 328 times
- Been thanked: 711 times
Re: Tim Watson era of coaching
Honest, you are right, now I remember we were sliding. One thing I now recall-and I could be wrong- didn’t Watson seem to suddenly want. Nathan Burke to become a stay-at-home backpocket defender instead of pack-borer he was renowned for? - and Burkey was sorely exposed in that role?
You're quite brilliant Shane, yeah..terrific!
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 5212
- Joined: Mon 07 Aug 2006 9:50pm
- Location: Queensland - Beautiful one day ... you know the rest
- Has thanked: 65 times
- Been thanked: 318 times
Re: Tim Watson era of coaching
now if my memory serves me correctly wasnt N Burkes move to the back pocket roll in conjunction with his helmet due to repeated head whacks in the middle?shanegrambeau wrote: ↑Thu 16 Aug 2018 3:10pm Honest, you are right, now I remember we were sliding. One thing I now recall-and I could be wrong- didn’t Watson seem to suddenly want. Nathan Burke to become a stay-at-home backpocket defender instead of pack-borer he was renowned for? - and Burkey was sorely exposed in that role?
Seeya
*************
*************
-
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 2592
- Joined: Fri 20 Jan 2012 4:57pm
- Has thanked: 2043 times
- Been thanked: 1163 times
Re: Tim Watson era of coaching
One of Tim's big issues was his complete mistrust in the younger parts of our list. Instead of re-generating Stan's team with the younger guys that Stan's era had recruited - he much preferred to bring in older, experienced hacks (Fred Campbell, Gavin Mitchell, Tony Francis, Sean Charles, Tony Delaney et al).
Sounds somewhat like someone else currently in the seat (Mav, Gilbert, Geary etc)
Sounds somewhat like someone else currently in the seat (Mav, Gilbert, Geary etc)
Go you red, black & white warriors
- degruch
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 8948
- Joined: Mon 19 May 2008 4:29pm
- Location: Croydonia
- Has thanked: 146 times
- Been thanked: 237 times
Re: Tim Watson era of coaching
Also sounds like Lyon and Watters.Saintmatt wrote: ↑Thu 16 Aug 2018 4:03pm One of Tim's big issues was his complete mistrust in the younger parts of our list. Instead of re-generating Stan's team with the younger guys that Stan's era had recruited - he much preferred to bring in older, experienced hacks (Fred Campbell, Gavin Mitchell, Tony Francis, Sean Charles, Tony Delaney et al).
Sounds somewhat like someone else currently in the seat (Mav, Gilbert, Geary etc)
- Dave McNamara
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 5784
- Joined: Wed 21 Sep 2011 2:44pm
- Location: Slotting another one from 94.5m out. Opposition flood? Bring it on...! Keep the faith Saintas!
- Has thanked: 96 times
- Been thanked: 99 times
Re: Tim Watson era of coaching
From memory, we started well under Timmy. Then, everyone else worked out what he was doing. (Switching play to loose blokes lined up on the other side of the ground.)
Tim had no plan B...
However, to Tim's credit, plan C was a good one.
I'm hoping Richo' also adopts Tim's plan C at the end of this season.
Tim had no plan B...
However, to Tim's credit, plan C was a good one.
I'm hoping Richo' also adopts Tim's plan C at the end of this season.
It's Dave, man. Will you open up? I got the stuff with me! -------Who?
Dave, man. Open up ------------------------------------------ -----Dave???
Yeah, Dave. ---------------------------------------------------------Dave's not here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOiG1hAr ... detailpage
Dave, man. Open up ------------------------------------------ -----Dave???
Yeah, Dave. ---------------------------------------------------------Dave's not here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOiG1hAr ... detailpage
- shanegrambeau
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 5969
- Joined: Thu 25 Jan 2018 2:15pm
- Has thanked: 328 times
- Been thanked: 711 times
Re: Tim Watson era of coaching
I think Burkey donned the helmet way before Watson arrived but I just saw that he won the best-and-fairest in '99, so I guess the backpocket thing didn't lastsunsaint wrote: ↑Thu 16 Aug 2018 3:43pmnow if my memory serves me correctly wasnt N Burkes move to the back pocket roll in conjunction with his helmet due to repeated head whacks in the middle?shanegrambeau wrote: ↑Thu 16 Aug 2018 3:10pm Honest, you are right, now I remember we were sliding. One thing I now recall-and I could be wrong- didn’t Watson seem to suddenly want. Nathan Burke to become a stay-at-home backpocket defender instead of pack-borer he was renowned for? - and Burkey was sorely exposed in that role?
You're quite brilliant Shane, yeah..terrific!