Trade Whispers Update
Moderators: Saintsational Administrators, Saintsational Moderators
- parkeysainter
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 2696
- Joined: Thu 20 Jul 2017 2:59am
- Location: Brighton Beach Mansion
- Has thanked: 84 times
- Been thanked: 177 times
Trade Whispers Update
https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-tr ... 3f210014b8
Apparantly we are looking at Roughy from the Dogs also. Don't be surprised if we throw our hat in the ring for Shiel too.
In any case, the Saints are going to be big players this trade period. I really like it and its what we've wanted.
Apparantly we are looking at Roughy from the Dogs also. Don't be surprised if we throw our hat in the ring for Shiel too.
In any case, the Saints are going to be big players this trade period. I really like it and its what we've wanted.
Try to be a rainbow in someone's cloud
In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death, taxes and the St Kilda FC
In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death, taxes and the St Kilda FC
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 10446
- Joined: Fri 16 Feb 2007 3:24pm
- Location: WARBURTON
- Has thanked: 148 times
- Been thanked: 1328 times
Re: Trade Whispers Update
Think we keep a core of 18 and or so and move anyone else we can
NO IFS OR BUTS HARVS IS KING OF THE AFL
-
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 3266
- Joined: Fri 16 Mar 2007 4:05pm
- Been thanked: 390 times
Re: Trade Whispers Update
Fool’s paradise
The key word is “Trade”
So who do we trade out to trade in?
Do we trade out an Acres to get whoever?
That is throwing out the baby with the bath water stuff
Simply, we have a core of players we have Drafted with First Round Picks - plus we have obtained some others including Carlisle, Freeman, Roberton, Membrey (if correctly deployed and where injuries have meant he is not correctly deployed), Bruce et al
Then we have some later picks such as Battle
This is the core on which we build, with patience as these kids mature and deliver
To disrupt that programme for short term gain will be a disaster
As St Kilda’s history of Star players from Barker to Winnar to Lockett to Harvey to Riewoldt and the others tells us given the premiership success having star players does not deliver success
Best we focus on the top 20 on our List, add another high Draft Pick in coming months and turn and turn again the bottom 20 on our List, a bottom 29 who have no Trade value including the Captain and a ruckman out of Contract as season’s end
We are not in a position to trade
The focus should be on Free Agency - exclusively
The key word is “Trade”
So who do we trade out to trade in?
Do we trade out an Acres to get whoever?
That is throwing out the baby with the bath water stuff
Simply, we have a core of players we have Drafted with First Round Picks - plus we have obtained some others including Carlisle, Freeman, Roberton, Membrey (if correctly deployed and where injuries have meant he is not correctly deployed), Bruce et al
Then we have some later picks such as Battle
This is the core on which we build, with patience as these kids mature and deliver
To disrupt that programme for short term gain will be a disaster
As St Kilda’s history of Star players from Barker to Winnar to Lockett to Harvey to Riewoldt and the others tells us given the premiership success having star players does not deliver success
Best we focus on the top 20 on our List, add another high Draft Pick in coming months and turn and turn again the bottom 20 on our List, a bottom 29 who have no Trade value including the Captain and a ruckman out of Contract as season’s end
We are not in a position to trade
The focus should be on Free Agency - exclusively
- shrodes
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 3090
- Joined: Tue 12 Aug 2014 2:34pm
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 791 times
- Been thanked: 436 times
Re: Trade Whispers Update
There's also picks, but we don't have many of thoseTo the top wrote: ↑Tue 14 Aug 2018 1:42pm The key word is “Trade”
So who do we trade out to trade in?
We are not in a position to trade
The focus should be on Free Agency - exclusively
I'm with you on the vast majority of our young players, but that's not to say we don't have any trade bait.
- Cairnsman
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 7377
- Joined: Thu 16 Jun 2005 10:38pm
- Location: Everywhere
- Has thanked: 189 times
- Been thanked: 276 times
Re: Trade Whispers Update
Absolutely. Got to hold the nerve and not jump at shadows.To the top wrote: ↑Tue 14 Aug 2018 1:42pm Fool’s paradise
The key word is “Trade”
So who do we trade out to trade in?
Do we trade out an Acres to get whoever?
That is throwing out the baby with the bath water stuff
Simply, we have a core of players we have Drafted with First Round Picks - plus we have obtained some others including Carlisle, Freeman, Roberton, Membrey (if correctly deployed and where injuries have meant he is not correctly deployed), Bruce et al
Then we have some later picks such as Battle
This is the core on which we build, with patience as these kids mature and deliver
To disrupt that programme for short term gain will be a disaster
As St Kilda’s history of Star players from Barker to Winnar to Lockett to Harvey to Riewoldt and the others tells us given the premiership success having star players does not deliver success
Best we focus on the top 20 on our List, add another high Draft Pick in coming months and turn and turn again the bottom 20 on our List, a bottom 29 who have no Trade value including the Captain and a ruckman out of Contract as season’s end
We are not in a position to trade
The focus should be on Free Agency - exclusively
Think of this year as an aberration.
Patients.
Keep plugging away at trying to bring players in as part of trying to compliment the list that most pundits believe is a decent core.
- Selhurst Saint
- Club Player
- Posts: 1767
- Joined: Thu 19 Aug 2004 9:09am
- Location: I do like to be beside the seaside
- Been thanked: 40 times
Re: Trade Whispers Update
We have said we were going to be big players in the trade period the last two years and delivered nothing. The last two years no one wanted to come to us. This year no one will want to come to us AND we have nothing to trade. We are in a world of pain.
"...If there has been one recurring theme through this whole shocking mess, it has been the misguided, inflated egos and their ill-judged determination to cling to long-standing old boy friendships. The bad advice that has guided the selfish and culpable James Hird has not only punctuated this saga but symbolised it..."
- The_Dud
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 14010
- Joined: Sun 27 May 2007 9:53pm
- Location: Bendigo
- Has thanked: 1314 times
- Been thanked: 2092 times
Re: Trade Whispers Update
To get something good you have to give something good, which is the problem.
All posters are equal, but some posters are more equal than others.
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 487
- Joined: Mon 15 Dec 2008 12:39am
- Has thanked: 115 times
- Been thanked: 105 times
Re: Trade Whispers Update
Get in a good coaching panel and see the difference.
" If thought corrupts language then language can also corrupt thought."
Politics and the English Language George Orwell
Politics and the English Language George Orwell
- dragit
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 13047
- Joined: Tue 29 Jun 2010 11:56am
- Has thanked: 605 times
- Been thanked: 315 times
Re: Trade Whispers Update
We need to be smarter than that.To the top wrote: ↑Tue 14 Aug 2018 1:42pm We are not in a position to trade
The focus should be on Free Agency - exclusively
No star free agents are coming to us in our state.
There will be some interest in Longer, Bruce, Savage & Weller… who we can either trade for players or a mid range pick to take to the draft or combine with other picks to improve our position in the draft.
If our rebuild is drifting significantly we may listen to offers for Steven.
We may decide that Dunstan, Steele, Ross are all too similar, with none of them being really big contested ball winners. Maybe we go for a Mitch Wallis as a free agent and turn one of these ^ guys into a decent pick?
- parkeysainter
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 2696
- Joined: Thu 20 Jul 2017 2:59am
- Location: Brighton Beach Mansion
- Has thanked: 84 times
- Been thanked: 177 times
Re: Trade Whispers Update
To clarify.
Most of the players we seem interested in are FA's besides Hanners. They cost you nothing if you basically outbid their club and they agree to leave. So in essence, it doesn't matter who we put up for trade or what picks we have to use when it comes to FA. Hanners is a different story, but we have enough picks and players in the bank to land him.
Most of the players we seem interested in are FA's besides Hanners. They cost you nothing if you basically outbid their club and they agree to leave. So in essence, it doesn't matter who we put up for trade or what picks we have to use when it comes to FA. Hanners is a different story, but we have enough picks and players in the bank to land him.
Try to be a rainbow in someone's cloud
In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death, taxes and the St Kilda FC
In this world nothing can be said to be certain, except death, taxes and the St Kilda FC
- WellardSaint
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 8371
- Joined: Sat 26 May 2012 11:25am
- Location: Perth- the best weather in Oz, but the worst rednecks.
- Has thanked: 1906 times
- Been thanked: 883 times
Re: Trade Whispers Update
I think nobody has wanted to come to the Saints, because:
1. the player will be under pressure from the media, supporters, maybe coaches too, to do a lot of heavy lifting and perform at 100% every game
2. the player will have to compensate for his team-mates' shortcomings
3. the player will be the 1st choice to be tagged, as we only have Stuv who attracts a tag
4. player can happily go to a top 4 side where he will be the 3rd or 4th tagging target, so less pressure at a top 4 club
Forget about the pure $$$, war chest is just a bait of money that no manager in their right mind, would fall for. Insanity to think that $$ would get a guy to a bottom 4 club.
Look at the pressure around Tom Boyd when the Dogs got him.
Ablett returned to the Cats because of family etc, Danger as well.
Money can't dictate where you choose to spend your working life- it can help, sure, but geez
happiness is everything
1. the player will be under pressure from the media, supporters, maybe coaches too, to do a lot of heavy lifting and perform at 100% every game
2. the player will have to compensate for his team-mates' shortcomings
3. the player will be the 1st choice to be tagged, as we only have Stuv who attracts a tag
4. player can happily go to a top 4 side where he will be the 3rd or 4th tagging target, so less pressure at a top 4 club
Forget about the pure $$$, war chest is just a bait of money that no manager in their right mind, would fall for. Insanity to think that $$ would get a guy to a bottom 4 club.
Look at the pressure around Tom Boyd when the Dogs got him.
Ablett returned to the Cats because of family etc, Danger as well.
Money can't dictate where you choose to spend your working life- it can help, sure, but geez
happiness is everything
A real Sainter will pledge allegiance to the ❤ and despise the Pies, the Blues, and the Injectors.
Remember one of the 10 Commandments : Thou shalt have no other team before thee
Remember one of the 10 Commandments : Thou shalt have no other team before thee
- WellardSaint
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 8371
- Joined: Sat 26 May 2012 11:25am
- Location: Perth- the best weather in Oz, but the worst rednecks.
- Has thanked: 1906 times
- Been thanked: 883 times
Re: Trade Whispers Update
Of the 3 mentioned, I would prefer to keep Steele in a heartbeat.dragit wrote: ↑Tue 14 Aug 2018 2:21pmWe need to be smarter than that.To the top wrote: ↑Tue 14 Aug 2018 1:42pm We are not in a position to trade
The focus should be on Free Agency - exclusively
No star free agents are coming to us in our state.
There will be some interest in Longer, Bruce, Savage & Weller… who we can either trade for players or a mid range pick to take to the draft or combine with other picks to improve our position in the draft.
If our rebuild is drifting significantly we may listen to offers for Steven.
We may decide that Dunstan, Steele, Ross are all too similar, with none of them being really big contested ball winners. Maybe we go for a Mitch Wallis as a free agent and turn one of these ^ guys into a decent pick?
Dunstan might have been captain of the SA under-18 side, but he has struggled for consistency (poor development at our club?)
and he seems to be one-dimensional, and although he has improved, I think he might have hit the plateau and what we are now seeing
is his best, and there's no more to come.
Ross can get a huge amount of the ball, but he is undisciplined (e.g. Power game last yr, last throw-in)
and he does lazy things in every game I have ever seen;
he sometimes can give a very nice kick to advantage, but far far too often, even when he has a lot of time,
he just bombs in without caring where it's going. "Good, another possie in the bank".
If anyone is near him, he panics and just goes bang, or handballs up in the air to someone standing still.
I really do not like the way he plays- NOT a team player.
Steele has had bad luck in each preseason, with leg/ankle/foot issues, but he still gets in there and battles hard, you know exactly what you're getting with him.
Give him a solid, decent pre-season, and remember his young age, he has a lot of upside and will only get better.
With a change of assistants, he should flourish and really be a player to be proud of.
A real Sainter will pledge allegiance to the ❤ and despise the Pies, the Blues, and the Injectors.
Remember one of the 10 Commandments : Thou shalt have no other team before thee
Remember one of the 10 Commandments : Thou shalt have no other team before thee
-
- Club Player
- Posts: 919
- Joined: Sun 29 Jan 2012 12:37pm
- Has thanked: 3 times
- Been thanked: 94 times
Re: Trade Whispers Update
Could not agree more - St Kilda a big player in trade has a bad history. I'm scared as we give up the potential for average JoesTo the top wrote: ↑Tue 14 Aug 2018 1:42pm Fool’s paradise
The key word is “Trade”
So who do we trade out to trade in?
Do we trade out an Acres to get whoever?
That is throwing out the baby with the bath water stuff
Simply, we have a core of players we have Drafted with First Round Picks - plus we have obtained some others including Carlisle, Freeman, Roberton, Membrey (if correctly deployed and where injuries have meant he is not correctly deployed), Bruce et al
Then we have some later picks such as Battle
This is the core on which we build, with patience as these kids mature and deliver
To disrupt that programme for short term gain will be a disaster
As St Kilda’s history of Star players from Barker to Winnar to Lockett to Harvey to Riewoldt and the others tells us given the premiership success having star players does not deliver success
Best we focus on the top 20 on our List, add another high Draft Pick in coming months and turn and turn again the bottom 20 on our List, a bottom 29 who have no Trade value including the Captain and a ruckman out of Contract as season’s end
We are not in a position to trade
The focus should be on Free Agency - exclusively
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 12038
- Joined: Sun 11 Sep 2011 2:26pm
- Has thanked: 3682 times
- Been thanked: 2567 times
Re: Trade Whispers Update
Plus 1. Very good post WSWellardSaint wrote: ↑Tue 14 Aug 2018 4:37pmOf the 3 mentioned, I would prefer to keep Steele in a heartbeat.dragit wrote: ↑Tue 14 Aug 2018 2:21pmWe need to be smarter than that.To the top wrote: ↑Tue 14 Aug 2018 1:42pm We are not in a position to trade
The focus should be on Free Agency - exclusively
No star free agents are coming to us in our state.
There will be some interest in Longer, Bruce, Savage & Weller… who we can either trade for players or a mid range pick to take to the draft or combine with other picks to improve our position in the draft.
If our rebuild is drifting significantly we may listen to offers for Steven.
We may decide that Dunstan, Steele, Ross are all too similar, with none of them being really big contested ball winners. Maybe we go for a Mitch Wallis as a free agent and turn one of these ^ guys into a decent pick?
Dunstan might have been captain of the SA under-18 side, but he has struggled for consistency (poor development at our club?)
and he seems to be one-dimensional, and although he has improved, I think he might have hit the plateau and what we are now seeing
is his best, and there's no more to come.
Ross can get a huge amount of the ball, but he is undisciplined (e.g. Power game last yr, last throw-in)
and he does lazy things in every game I have ever seen;
he sometimes can give a very nice kick to advantage, but far far too often, even when he has a lot of time,
he just bombs in without caring where it's going. "Good, another possie in the bank".
If anyone is near him, he panics and just goes bang, or handballs up in the air to someone standing still.
I really do not like the way he plays- NOT a team player.
Steele has had bad luck in each preseason, with leg/ankle/foot issues, but he still gets in there and battles hard, you know exactly what you're getting with him.
Give him a solid, decent pre-season, and remember his young age, he has a lot of upside and will only get better.
With a change of assistants, he should flourish and really be a player to be proud of.
- Dis Believer
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 5095
- Joined: Sun 28 Mar 2004 1:42pm
- Location: The terraces at Moorabbin, in the pouring rain.......
- Has thanked: 286 times
- Been thanked: 279 times
Re: Trade Whispers Update
Sorry but I have to disagree here. Ross is one of the few on our list that actually backpedals, doesn't panic, and makes a little time for himself to weigh up his options, and in doing so buys a little time for the next guy on the possession chain. No doubt he makes some blunders, but how many are because he has received possession already under the pump because of a team-mates panic? He's the sort of player that would look a million bucks in a better team where he received better support and disposal.......WellardSaint wrote: ↑Tue 14 Aug 2018 4:37pm
Ross can get a huge amount of the ball, but he is undisciplined (e.g. Power game last yr, last throw-in)
and he does lazy things in every game I have ever seen;
he sometimes can give a very nice kick to advantage, but far far too often, even when he has a lot of time,
he just bombs in without caring where it's going. "Good, another possie in the bank".
If anyone is near him, he panics and just goes bang, or handballs up in the air to someone standing still.
I really do not like the way he plays- NOT a team player.
The heavy metal artist formerly known as True Believer!
IF you look around the room and can't identify who the sucker is, then it's probably you!
IF you look around the room and can't identify who the sucker is, then it's probably you!
- The Recruit
- Club Player
- Posts: 912
- Joined: Tue 12 May 2015 12:50am
- Has thanked: 16 times
- Been thanked: 118 times
- bigred
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 11463
- Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 7:39am
- Has thanked: 25 times
- Been thanked: 609 times
Re: Trade Whispers Update
will end up with nothing again.
"Now the ball is loose, it gives St. Kilda a rough chance. Black. Good handpass. Voss. Schwarze now, the defender, can run and from a long way".....
- saintsRrising
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 30094
- Joined: Mon 15 Mar 2004 11:07am
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 711 times
- Been thanked: 1234 times
Re: Trade Whispers Update
I do not care if we are big players or not. What I care about is being smart players that acquire players at a reasonable price that will improve the club, and not just fora year or too, but long-term.parkeysainter wrote: ↑Tue 14 Aug 2018 1:17pm https://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-tr ... 3f210014b8
Apparantly we are looking at Roughy from the Dogs also. Don't be surprised if we throw our hat in the ring for Shiel too.
In any case, the Saints are going to be big players this trade period. I really like it and its what we've wanted.
Roughy? Lets be serious he is no better than what we have. Just because someone is a free agent it does not in itself make a player worth getting.
Should Hannebery request a trade to the Saints, Sydney would likely ask St Kilda for its first pick — currently Pick 4 but could be anywhere between Picks 2 and 5 by season’s end — and the Saints could get Sydney’s first-round selection — which is set to be past Pick 10.
If we do that that trade as written we are cutting our on throats. The first 5 or 6 players are shaping up to be exceptional. Pick 10 and older Dodgey Hannebery. The Swans would take that deal in a heart beat every day of the week!
If this is the shape of our "Big Trades" then it would seem our Big Trading is all about doing enough so we cannot exit Richo and the exetive team patting each other of the backs about what good traders they are, rather than genuinely trying to rebuild us as a force.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
- saintsRrising
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 30094
- Joined: Mon 15 Mar 2004 11:07am
- Location: Melbourne
- Has thanked: 711 times
- Been thanked: 1234 times
Re: Trade Whispers Update
Worse than that...we seem to be heading fora bunch of discards, minor upgrades, injury prone players while most likely having to give up an excellent pick in a strong draft.
At this rate they would also be stupid enough to trade off Billings for a can of baked beans.
Flying the World in comfort thanks to FF Points....
- SaintPav
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 19096
- Joined: Wed 16 Jun 2010 9:24pm
- Location: Alma Road
- Has thanked: 1603 times
- Been thanked: 2018 times
Re: Trade Whispers Update
If we trade away our first round draft pick I’m will not be renewing my membership
Holder of unacceptable views and other thought crimes.
- bigred
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 11463
- Joined: Tue 09 Mar 2004 7:39am
- Has thanked: 25 times
- Been thanked: 609 times
Re: Trade Whispers Update
Hanners not a good fit IMO.
Waste of kanga and we wont get the return required.
Waste of kanga and we wont get the return required.
"Now the ball is loose, it gives St. Kilda a rough chance. Black. Good handpass. Voss. Schwarze now, the defender, can run and from a long way".....
- Spinner
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 8502
- Joined: Sat 02 Dec 2006 3:40pm
- Location: Victoria
- Has thanked: 185 times
- Been thanked: 133 times
Re: Trade Whispers Update
Waste of kanga? It's being wasted already on the players already on the list.
Not a good fit because he is a quality player?
Hannebery would be an exceptional get. Only problem is the trade cost but we are unable to attract FA due to our poor performances at the moment.
-
- SS Life Member
- Posts: 3266
- Joined: Fri 16 Mar 2007 4:05pm
- Been thanked: 390 times
Re: Trade Whispers Update
I am not of the view that any of Longer (out of Contract I believe), Savage or Weller have any significant trade value - if any at all
And why look to trade Bruce - who we could deploy to defence given Goddard and Austin do not progress and noting Brown's age and restrictions?
In terms of the similarity between Ross, Steele and Dunstan that comes down to team structure and the back up biding their time at Sandringham pending opportunity therefore strengthening our options and List which is the object of the exercise
And I would be retaining our pick at 4 or 5 to compliment our List
The pleasing news is Roberton - and Goddard showing something at VFL level
The extent of our injury list is that some are getting opportunity and others continue to get games - hence Pierce
It is a valid exercise to consider who we do not (and have not) had available thru this season
Because it remains my view that our problems revolve around the absence of class experienced players post the losses of Fisher, Dempster, Montagna and Riewoldt AND then the depth of our List, which has been tested by injury
And why look to trade Bruce - who we could deploy to defence given Goddard and Austin do not progress and noting Brown's age and restrictions?
In terms of the similarity between Ross, Steele and Dunstan that comes down to team structure and the back up biding their time at Sandringham pending opportunity therefore strengthening our options and List which is the object of the exercise
And I would be retaining our pick at 4 or 5 to compliment our List
The pleasing news is Roberton - and Goddard showing something at VFL level
The extent of our injury list is that some are getting opportunity and others continue to get games - hence Pierce
It is a valid exercise to consider who we do not (and have not) had available thru this season
Because it remains my view that our problems revolve around the absence of class experienced players post the losses of Fisher, Dempster, Montagna and Riewoldt AND then the depth of our List, which has been tested by injury
- degruch
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 8948
- Joined: Mon 19 May 2008 4:29pm
- Location: Croydonia
- Has thanked: 146 times
- Been thanked: 237 times
Re: Trade Whispers Update
I've got all my digits crossed for 2000/2001 trade period, but I can absolutely see the above coming instead...the Saints scrounging through the AFL bin like the dero I walked past this morning (who called me a rude prick for not looking at him, after he yelled gibberish at me - I was pretending to be a FA to complete the analogy).saintsRrising wrote: ↑Wed 15 Aug 2018 2:33am
Worse than that...we seem to be heading fora bunch of discards, minor upgrades, injury prone players while most likely having to give up an excellent pick in a strong draft.
At this rate they would also be stupid enough to trade off Billings for a can of baked beans.
-
- Saintsational Legend
- Posts: 10446
- Joined: Fri 16 Feb 2007 3:24pm
- Location: WARBURTON
- Has thanked: 148 times
- Been thanked: 1328 times
Re: Trade Whispers Update
Plenty of our players have trade value to other clubs its stupid to suggest other wise.
NO IFS OR BUTS HARVS IS KING OF THE AFL