What’s the damage?

[SaintPav]

I think, that despite viewing from different angles, we are all on the same page that somethings have to change.

I don't want to be like the old guys in the pub in Jack Irish talking about the demise of the St Kilda footy club.

Frankly, feels like that already.

[rodgerfox]

Yes agreed, but there's usually a forecast or a presentation that includes forward looking statements that address our expected future business and financial performance. There will be numbers that are historical abd there could be some forecast numbers.

This is where they will paint the same picture as the emails we received for the 'road to 2020.' Our CEO, president and even Lethlean were saying earlier this year that they thought we were capable of being a top 4 side.

So back to my original post, the one which you scoffed at, as I said we can't get too hysterical until we see the annual report.

Companies waiting on annual reports to make decisions go broke.
We are not BHP we are a footy club operating in a fishbowl environment that knows what matters for good performance : on field results. Actually, I’d go a step further and say what matters for performance is hope and right now that’s completely missing - UNLIKE in the bad ole Butters /Thomas days where there were c**k ups...but stacks oh hope emerging from which the 2008/09 GF years built from.

Let’s not play “who has a bigger corporate weener” with management mumbo jumbo at this time....we had a plan...Road to 2018.....that plan is monitored (ought to be) we have failed. We need to act now.

If the club is making money and reducing debt, why would you throw the people responsible for it out?

[saynta]

I think, that despite viewing from different angles, we are all on the same page that somethings have to change.

I don't want to be like the old guys in the pub in Jack Irish talking about the demise of the St Kilda footy club.

Frankly, feels like that already.

Yep, does a bit doesn't it.

[Myron Gaines]

Need a major circuit breaker. Richo must go. A couple of low level assistants & recruiters ain’t gonna cut it.

[saynta]

Need a major circuit breaker. Richo must go. A couple of low level assistants & recruiters ain’t gonna cut it.

Unfortunately. or for us supporters,maybe fortunately, I think you are 100% correct.

I think this will be a long week with changes before the weekend nearly inevitable, If there is a massive negative press.

[parkeysainter]

C'mon guys. The Saints are purely going through a s*** patch. We have been much worse. We will never fold or relocate as a club. The AFL would never allow it. We have 45k members, even after no finals since 2011. We have alot of supporters in general, a good stadium deal and tons of sponsors.

They have and will spend $10's of millions on Moorabbin. Seems like a very bad waste of money if we are going to crumble completely.

Yep, we are going s*** and the club is being run poorly in some sections, but it will get better. It always has.

Chins up Sainters and its time to dig in more than ever! (If you can be bothered).

[BenLong#21]

C'mon guys. The Saints are purely going through a s*** patch. We have been much worse. We will never fold or relocate as a club. The AFL would never allow it. We have 45k members, even after no finals since 2011. We have alot of supporters in general, a good stadium deal and tons of sponsors.

They have and will spend $10's of millions on Moorabbin. Seems like a very bad waste of money if we are going to crumble completely.

Yep, we are going s*** and the club is being run poorly in some sections, but it will get better. It always has.

Chins up Sainters and its time to dig in more than ever! (If you can be bothered).

Moorabin will simply be used for AFLW, U 18s and a stand alone VFL side in the future. Kids as well.

The club has the league record for wooden spoons so to claim 'shell be right mate' and trust the folk in power is preposterous.
The reality is the folk in power are careerists who will be gone at the first opportunity.
Remember Archie Fraser?
This current lot are no better than Archie was.

[Teflon]

Yes agreed, but there's usually a forecast or a presentation that includes forward looking statements that address our expected future business and financial performance. There will be numbers that are historical abd there could be some forecast numbers.

This is where they will paint the same picture as the emails we received for the 'road to 2020.' Our CEO, president and even Lethlean were saying earlier this year that they thought we were capable of being a top 4 side.

So back to my original post, the one which you scoffed at, as I said we can't get too hysterical until we see the annual report.

Companies waiting on annual reports to make decisions go broke.
We are not BHP we are a footy club operating in a fishbowl environment that knows what matters for good performance : on field results. Actually, I’d go a step further and say what matters for performance is hope and right now that’s completely missing - UNLIKE in the bad ole Butters /Thomas days where there were c**k ups...but stacks oh hope emerging from which the 2008/09 GF years built from.

Let’s not play “who has a bigger corporate weener” with management mumbo jumbo at this time....we had a plan...Road to 2018.....that plan is monitored (ought to be) we have failed. We need to act now.

If the club is making money and reducing debt, why would you throw the people responsible for it out?

Ok

[Teflon]

Need a major circuit breaker. Richo must go. A couple of low level assistants & recruiters ain’t gonna cut it.

Tend to agree but think the dye is cast club has dug its heels in and how they back track from supporting him to removing him I don’t know

2 possibles :

1 Alan quits - citing he’s given his all but feels he’s burnt out
2 Club and Alan do some fast footwork.....Alan becomes Head of Player Development in a stronger club function ..paving the way for a new Head Coach

Unlikely

[parkeysainter]

C'mon guys. The Saints are purely going through a s*** patch. We have been much worse. We will never fold or relocate as a club. The AFL would never allow it. We have 45k members, even after no finals since 2011. We have alot of supporters in general, a good stadium deal and tons of sponsors.

They have and will spend $10's of millions on Moorabbin. Seems like a very bad waste of money if we are going to crumble completely.

Yep, we are going s*** and the club is being run poorly in some sections, but it will get better. It always has.

Chins up Sainters and its time to dig in more than ever! (If you can be bothered).

Moorabin will simply be used for AFLW, U 18s and a stand alone VFL side in the future. Kids as well.

The club has the league record for wooden spoons so to claim 'shell be right mate' and trust the folk in power is preposterous.
The reality is the folk in power are careerists who will be gone at the first opportunity.
Remember Archie Fraser?
This current lot are no better than Archie was.

Too much doom and gloom which will never become reality. Saints VFL side only? Seriously...are you serious?

And no one is saying she will just be right either. Things will naturally change and for the better.

[BenLong#21]

If the club is making money and reducing debt, why would you throw the people responsible for it out?

Big If....

Id love to see our TV figures but we can assume they are very very poor.
Attendances are clearly down.

Generally revenues will drop off once those two numbers head south.

[Teflon]

If the club is making money and reducing debt, why would you throw the people responsible for it out?

Big If....

Id love to see our TV figures but we can assume they are very very poor.
Attendances are clearly down.

Generally revenues will drop off once those two numbers head south.

I wouldn’t feed the Dodgy beast ...he likes the question game when knowing the answer...
Clubs in massive debt .....but let’s get the Annual Report before we move on any decision....lol

[Myron Gaines]

Need a major circuit breaker. Richo must go. A couple of low level assistants & recruiters ain’t gonna cut it.

Tend to agree but think the dye is cast club has dug its heels in and how they back track from supporting him to removing him I don’t know

2 possibles :

1 Alan quits - citing he’s given his all but feels he’s burnt out
2 Club and Alan do some fast footwork.....Alan becomes Head of Player Development in a stronger club function ..paving the way for a new Head Coach

Unlikely

It’ll come down to extreme media pressure to make Richo’s position as head coach untenable, it always does. I just feel with the season almost done & the finishing line in sight Richo will get a start in 2019.

[SaintPav]

Yes agreed, but there's usually a forecast or a presentation that includes forward looking statements that address our expected future business and financial performance. There will be numbers that are historical abd there could be some forecast numbers.

This is where they will paint the same picture as the emails we received for the 'road to 2020.' Our CEO, president and even Lethlean were saying earlier this year that they thought we were capable of being a top 4 side.

So back to my original post, the one which you scoffed at, as I said we can't get too hysterical until we see the annual report.

Companies waiting on annual reports to make decisions go broke.
We are not BHP we are a footy club operating in a fishbowl environment that knows what matters for good performance : on field results. Actually, I’d go a step further and say what matters for performance is hope and right now that’s completely missing - UNLIKE in the bad ole Butters /Thomas days where there were c**k ups...but stacks oh hope emerging from which the 2008/09 GF years built from.

Let’s not play “who has a bigger corporate weener” with management mumbo jumbo at this time....we had a plan...Road to 2018.....that plan is monitored (ought to be) we have failed. We need to act now.

If the club is making money and reducing debt, why would you throw the people responsible for it out?

Many reasons.

Poor and deteriorating on-field performance, unjustified coaching extensions etc.

Over the last 5 years we've fallen behind Norf, Bulldogs Melbourne.

Where are we making more money and reducing debt? The club has not kept up with AFL industry benchmarks.

[rodgerfox]

Yes agreed, but there's usually a forecast or a presentation that includes forward looking statements that address our expected future business and financial performance. There will be numbers that are historical abd there could be some forecast numbers.

This is where they will paint the same picture as the emails we received for the 'road to 2020.' Our CEO, president and even Lethlean were saying earlier this year that they thought we were capable of being a top 4 side.

So back to my original post, the one which you scoffed at, as I said we can't get too hysterical until we see the annual report.

Companies waiting on annual reports to make decisions go broke.
We are not BHP we are a footy club operating in a fishbowl environment that knows what matters for good performance : on field results. Actually, I’d go a step further and say what matters for performance is hope and right now that’s completely missing - UNLIKE in the bad ole Butters /Thomas days where there were c**k ups...but stacks oh hope emerging from which the 2008/09 GF years built from.

Let’s not play “who has a bigger corporate weener” with management mumbo jumbo at this time....we had a plan...Road to 2018.....that plan is monitored (ought to be) we have failed. We need to act now.

If the club is making money and reducing debt, why would you throw the people responsible for it out?

Many reasons.

Poor and deteriorating on-field performance, unjustified coaching extensions etc.

Over the last 5 years we've fallen behind Norf, Bulldogs Melbourne.

Where are we making more money and reducing debt? The club has not kept up with AFL industry benchmarks.

Have we? I thought things had turned around last year?

[The OtherThommo]

Yes agreed, but there's usually a forecast or a presentation that includes forward looking statements that address our expected future business and financial performance. There will be numbers that are historical abd there could be some forecast numbers.

This is where they will paint the same picture as the emails we received for the 'road to 2020.' Our CEO, president and even Lethlean were saying earlier this year that they thought we were capable of being a top 4 side.

So back to my original post, the one which you scoffed at, as I said we can't get too hysterical until we see the annual report.

Companies waiting on annual reports to make decisions go broke.
We are not BHP we are a footy club operating in a fishbowl environment that knows what matters for good performance : on field results. Actually, I’d go a step further and say what matters for performance is hope and right now that’s completely missing - UNLIKE in the bad ole Butters /Thomas days where there were c**k ups...but stacks oh hope emerging from which the 2008/09 GF years built from.

Let’s not play “who has a bigger corporate weener” with management mumbo jumbo at this time....we had a plan...Road to 2018.....that plan is monitored (ought to be) we have failed. We need to act now.

I don't buy the individual club's annual reports are worth much at all. The way the competition is structured, and who has control of the majority of the revenue streams, the only annual report that counts is the AFL's.

The 18 clubs are virtually subsidiaries or 'divisions' of the larger controlling entity. Yes, it would be nice to flash around the BS and P&L if you were a biggie. But, down to brass tacks, the AFL will protect the whole, first and last. The rest is just marketing.

There will be a point, or threshold, where the AFL would decide the best net result would require a 'restructuring', 'going forward'.

He who controls the cash flows, decides.

[SaintPav]

Yes agreed, but there's usually a forecast or a presentation that includes forward looking statements that address our expected future business and financial performance. There will be numbers that are historical abd there could be some forecast numbers.

This is where they will paint the same picture as the emails we received for the 'road to 2020.' Our CEO, president and even Lethlean were saying earlier this year that they thought we were capable of being a top 4 side.

So back to my original post, the one which you scoffed at, as I said we can't get too hysterical until we see the annual report.

Companies waiting on annual reports to make decisions go broke.
We are not BHP we are a footy club operating in a fishbowl environment that knows what matters for good performance : on field results. Actually, I’d go a step further and say what matters for performance is hope and right now that’s completely missing - UNLIKE in the bad ole Butters /Thomas days where there were c**k ups...but stacks oh hope emerging from which the 2008/09 GF years built from.

Let’s not play “who has a bigger corporate weener” with management mumbo jumbo at this time....we had a plan...Road to 2018.....that plan is monitored (ought to be) we have failed. We need to act now.

If the club is making money and reducing debt, why would you throw the people responsible for it out?

Many reasons.

Poor and deteriorating on-field performance, unjustified coaching extensions etc.

Over the last 5 years we've fallen behind Norf, Bulldogs Melbourne.

Where are we making more money and reducing debt? The club has not kept up with AFL industry benchmarks.

Have we? I thought things had turned around last year?

Come on dude. We both know that one accounting period does not make a trend.

Also..

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/e/ex ... ryitem.asp

[rodgerfox]

Come on dude. We both know that one accounting period does not make a trend.

And isn't that why you would wait to see the numbers for this year?

[SaintPav]

Come on dude. We both know that one accounting period does not make a trend.

And isn't that why you would wait to see the numbers for this year?

Goes without saying

[bigcarl]

I fear Lethlean will not go far enough in his review and may be swallowing the “haven’t got the cattle” spin.

I don’t buy it and, though we’re not packed with elite talent, we’re better than we’ve shown this season.

The problem with hanging on to Richo is that, no matter which assistants are bought in, he’ll still outrank them and get to make most of the decisions.

Biggest area of concern for me is our dysfunctional forward line. It’s simple mathematics that you can’t win matches without kicking goals.

There’s been plenty of times this season that we have dominated play and not been able to capitalise.

I’m not sure McCartin’s going to make it. He may, but I don’t trust Richo to make a hard call on that if it becomes apparent that he won’t. He’ll keep playing him on the basis that he was a No.1 draft pick.

Bruce has been sadly missed. The obvious call earlier in the season was to move Carlisle forward, but Richo doesn’t seem to have entertained it. He could have got some games into Goddard or Logan Austin. Sure, it would weaken the defence but as I said, you can’t win games without kicking goals.

You’ve got to have a viable tall marking target. Membrey’s a very good player and is pretty damaging on a second or third string defender, but he’s not tall or physical enough to be your main key forward.

Another big concern of mine is the use of Acres and Gresham. I think they’ve got to be used primarily on the ball and, again, Richo doesn’t seem to entertain the thought that this may be worth a try.

Any case, hard days for Saints fans and I fear we’re in for more pain over the next few seasons.

[MC Gusto]

We will get absolutely pumped on Friday night.

That should be the straw

[tony74]

We will get absolutely pumped on Friday night.

That should be the straw

Well you will all know one thing for certain- whether he has or has not lost the players.

[Linton Lodger]

If the club is making money and reducing debt, why would you throw the people responsible for it out?

Big If....

Id love to see our TV figures but we can assume they are very very poor.
Attendances are clearly down.

Generally revenues will drop off once those two numbers head south.

Irrelevant.

TV figures are in freefall across the board, try and find a kid under 12 who watches 'TV'. Its Youtube and Youtubers. Why do you reckon Channel Nine have merged with Fairfax? Now they can shrink together.

The next AFL TV deal will be the last. Post that the AFL will be streaming the games themselves, no middle man needed. That's unless the AFL want to remain in the stoneage. If Gilligan's too dim to realise (quite possible) then someone else will.

[Linton Lodger]

We will get absolutely pumped on Friday night.

That should be the straw

Well you will all know one thing for certain- whether he has or has not lost the players.

You're close to it, what do you think?

[tony74]

We will get absolutely pumped on Friday night.

That should be the straw

Well you will all know one thing for certain- whether he has or has not lost the players.

You're close to it, what do you think?

The players are with him.